Andy's Kampfschimmer - IT'S FINISHED

[radyo]

The Italian version of the 3436 designed around 1936 used the "standard Panerai" dial and perhaps the German Navy fancied something a bit different :D



Andy

Don't think you can generalise about the dials Andy, I've seen as many (probably more) German used watches with the "Standard Panerai" dial. I always presumed the Cali dial pre-dated the sandwitch dial due to the construction?

http://www.paneraiforum.de/wbb2/thread. ... eadid=4797
http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf

Hi, i have seen a few of these watches before and always assumed they were "borrowed" from the Italians and re-issued to the German Navy towards the end of the war as most are 1944/45. I have also heard that some were repaired using whatever Panerai could find at the time hence Italian Panerai dials found there way into German watches.

I have also seen the one with the Rolex crown on it (VBD has made one :) , but was told that the original had this added later as the original 3436 left the Rolex factory with a plain service dial - which looks nothing like the Cali or Panerai dial and the person did not believe Panerai would have added it.

You may well be right that the cali dial pre-dated the sandwich dial. One thing is certain is that there are at least 3 dial variations, 4 if you include the one with the Rolex crown - the 3 identified above and the 3436's marked Marine Militare.

So a bit like the 9+ different versions of the 5513 dial then :twisted: Its a real shame that Rolex never publishes anything on this - would save all this guess work :D

Andy

Andy for me there are 4 dials used in service for WW11 3646’s

1: California dial 3646 (flat dial low bezel)

2:California watch 3646 flat dial but hand painted 3 6 9 12 looks a little crude, very few.

3:Radiomir Panerai logo 3646 different to California taller bezel & centre pinion to
accommadate thicker sandwich dial.( seem to come with seven digit serial numbers)

4:Sterile Dial 3646 German order, same watch as above but generally come with Rolex numbering 260xxx

Marina Militare non starter for me, didn’t come about till after WW11.

Consensus on dial with Rolex markings added later to enhance watch.

Just my views from researching watches.

:)

Lume is very cool :)

[Andyg]

Very nice acquisition Andy.
I am a fan of Panerai watches and I have always tend to lean towards the original argument in any homage vs fake debate but I must say your latest baby has made me reconsider my position! Can the strap be removed or is it sewn in?
Fantastic looker!

Chye

Sewn in - as per the original :D

Andy

[Andyg]

The Italian version of the 3436 designed around 1936 used the "standard Panerai" dial and perhaps the German Navy fancied something a bit different :D



Andy

Don't think you can generalise about the dials Andy, I've seen as many (probably more) German used watches with the "Standard Panerai" dial. I always presumed the Cali dial pre-dated the sandwitch dial due to the construction?

http://www.paneraiforum.de/wbb2/thread. ... eadid=4797
http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf

Hi, i have seen a few of these watches before and always assumed they were "borrowed" from the Italians and re-issued to the German Navy towards the end of the war as most are 1944/45. I have also heard that some were repaired using whatever Panerai could find at the time hence Italian Panerai dials found there way into German watches.

I have also seen the one with the Rolex crown on it (VBD has made one :) , but was told that the original had this added later as the original 3436 left the Rolex factory with a plain service dial - which looks nothing like the Cali or Panerai dial and the person did not believe Panerai would have added it.

You may well be right that the cali dial pre-dated the sandwich dial. One thing is certain is that there are at least 3 dial variations, 4 if you include the one with the Rolex crown - the 3 identified above and the 3436's marked Marine Militare.

So a bit like the 9+ different versions of the 5513 dial then :twisted: Its a real shame that Rolex never publishes anything on this - would save all this guess work :D

Andy

Andy for me there are 4 dials used in service for WW11 3646’s

1: California dial 3646 (flat dial low bezel)

2:California watch 3646 flat dial but hand painted 3 6 9 12 looks a little crude, very few.

3:Radiomir Panerai logo 3646 different to California taller bezel & centre pinion to
accommadate thicker sandwich dial.( seem to come with seven digit serial numbers)

4:Sterile Dial 3646 German order, same watch as above but generally come with Rolex numbering 260xxx

Marina Militare non starter for me, didn’t come about till after WW11.

Consensus on dial with Rolex markings added later to enhance watch.

Just my views from researching watches.

:)

This is why I love the forum. Many thanks Gordon and huge kudos.

When do you think the MM dials came in (around the early 50's?). Also did the 6152 and 6152-1 ever come as a sterile dial (this is important to me :) )

I have so many questions - I really need to buy Volkerer? book.

[radyo]

[/quote]

This is why I love the forum. Many thanks Gordon and huge kudos.

When do you think the MM dials came in (around the early 50's?). Also did the 6152 and 6152-1 ever come as a sterile dial (this is important to me :) )

I have so many questions - I really need to buy Volkerer? book.[/quote]




Well looking at the 6152, Rolex Brevette Big Crowns came out 1954 ish

I have never seen one with sterile dial, but like anything could have a 3646 sterile fitted.

Best
Graham

[guzzit3]

Amazing

[Chinnock]

IMO andy its bloody lovely 8) 8) 8)

glad you did the project.

cheers
mike :wink:

I agree...............and total appreciation of your skills!!

[Andyg]

IMO andy its bloody lovely 8) 8) 8)

glad you did the project.

cheers
mike :wink:

I agree...............and total appreciation of your skills!!

:lol: I wish I could take the credit, however all I did was provide a couple of ideas and a fistful of cash.

Thanks for the kind words.

Andy

[Gunscrossed]

The Italian version of the 3436 designed around 1936 used the "standard Panerai" dial and perhaps the German Navy fancied something a bit different :D



Andy

Don't think you can generalise about the dials Andy, I've seen as many (probably more) German used watches with the "Standard Panerai" dial. I always presumed the Cali dial pre-dated the sandwitch dial due to the construction?

http://www.paneraiforum.de/wbb2/thread. ... eadid=4797
http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf

Hi, i have seen a few of these watches before and always assumed they were "borrowed" from the Italians and re-issued to the German Navy towards the end of the war as most are 1944/45. I have also heard that some were repaired using whatever Panerai could find at the time hence Italian Panerai dials found there way into German watches.

I have also seen the one with the Rolex crown on it (VBD has made one :) , but was told that the original had this added later as the original 3436 left the Rolex factory with a plain service dial - which looks nothing like the Cali or Panerai dial and the person did not believe Panerai would have added it.

You may well be right that the cali dial pre-dated the sandwich dial. One thing is certain is that there are at least 3 dial variations, 4 if you include the one with the Rolex crown - the 3 identified above and the 3436's marked Marine Militare.

So a bit like the 9+ different versions of the 5513 dial then :twisted: Its a real shame that Rolex never publishes anything on this - would save all this guess work :D

Andy

Andy for me there are 4 dials used in service for WW11 3646’s

1: California dial 3646 (flat dial low bezel)

2:California watch 3646 flat dial but hand painted 3 6 9 12 looks a little crude, very few.

3:Radiomir Panerai logo 3646 different to California taller bezel & centre pinion to
accommadate thicker sandwich dial.( seem to come with seven digit serial numbers)

4:Sterile Dial 3646 German order, same watch as above but generally come with Rolex numbering 260xxx

Marina Militare non starter for me, didn’t come about till after WW11.

Consensus on dial with Rolex markings added later to enhance watch.

Just my views from researching watches.

:)

This is why I love the forum. Many thanks Gordon and huge kudos.

When do you think the MM dials came in (around the early 50's?). Also did the 6152 and 6152-1 ever come as a sterile dial (this is important to me :) )

I have so many questions - I really need to buy Volkerer? book.

I would agree with what Gordon says. Remember also that the German Kampfschwimmer units were not formed untill 1942 and were trained by the Italians.

Andy, buy the Volker book, you'll love it!

[Andyg]

Totally confused now

Panerai had two re-issues of the 232 and 249 - both were of 1938 which i thought reflected the date when the watches were first issued.

However I seem to remember that the first batch was actually in 1936 (to the Italian Navy) and the second issue to the Germans in 38 hence why two different dial configurations.

Also the German certainly had diver in the Kriegsmarine before 42/43. In which case what watch did they wear :wink:

To be honest my knowledge around all of this is pretty flakey to say the least.

One thing is certain is the date 26 Mar 1941 when HMS York were sunk by those rather naughty Italians and their "pigs".

Andy

[radyo]

Totally confused now

Panerai had two re-issues of the 232 and 249 - both were of 1938 which i thought reflected the date when the watches were first issued.

However I seem to remember that the first batch was actually in 1936 (to the Italian Navy) and the second issue to the Germans in 38 hence why two different dial configurations.

Also the German certainly had diver in the Kriegsmarine before 42/43. In which case what watch did they wear :wink:

To be honest my knowledge around all of this is pretty flakey to say the least.

One thing is certain is the date 26 Mar 1941 when HMS York were sunk by those rather naughty Italians and their "pigs".

Andy

Andy, they didn't come in till late on.
This tells it all, have you read it ?



Best
Graham

[Andyg]

Thanks Gordon. Another book I need to get.

Currently reading "Weapons of Desperation" by Lawrence Paterson, but it only really starts in 1941 with the attack of Queen Elizabeth and the raise (??) of the K-Verbande. I need the earlier stuff and your looks just the ticket. Many thanks

Andy

[Andyg]

The 3436 has finally arrived - so here is just one more shot (a wrist shot) - not as big as I thought (although I do have 8 " wrists) and suprising confortable.

Well pleased :D

Would I have have another you bet :wink: watch (no pun intended) this space :bom:



Taken in the rain, to demonstrate its is waterproof :D hence the spots on the crystal.

Andy

[Chris_in_the_UK]

The 3436 has finally arrived - so here is just one more shot (a wrist shot) - not as big as I thought (although I do have 8 " wrists) and suprising confortable.

Well pleased :D

Would I have have another you bet :wink: watch (no pun intended) space :bom:

Excellent Andy - The collection is building nicely.

[WatchScout]

Just now noticed this after a weekend in the country of the Kampfschwimmers.

What a beautiful watch. I find it great that you persued and achieved this. looking forward to the next project :wink:

[Andyg]

Just now noticed this after a weekend in the country of the Kampfschwimmers.

What a beautiful watch. I find it great that you persued and achieved this. looking forward to the next project :wink:

Thanks - I now have the Angelus - just need to decide what to do with it :wink:

Andy

[feilersen]

Hi Andy,

Sorry, may have overlooked but what is the size of the watch?

It is indeed very nice! :)

[Andyg]

Hi Andy,

Sorry, may have overlooked but what is the size of the watch?

It is indeed very nice! :)

47mm - just as god intended :wink:

Andy

[feilersen]

Thanks :)