Reply With QuotePeking... :lol:Originally Posted by Karl
But you had a choice, fake or non-fake: I 'm presuming both would tell the time? :DI explained my reason for wearing a fake - my watch broke and the cheapest watch available at the time was a fake, and i needed a watch to tell the time - No more no less.
I'll let others do all the presuming. :D And to create a an impression means someone has to be impressionable, and i find only shallow people are impressed by wealth and baubles alone.
We are all impressionable - and no-one AFAIK is suggesting it's wealth and baubles alone. :wink:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Peking... :lol:
I'm not actually sure what the point of the thread really is, but as with many things in life, there are fakes and fakes and fakes!
I know of at least one master craftsman who makes 'reproduction' Kampfschwimmers, modding genuine Angelus and Cortebert/Rolex movements until they look virtually indistinguishable from the real, vintage, thing. The watches are little masterpieces, albeit with dials, brevet crowns and cases that are definitely designed to mislead, they sell for hundreds, sometimes thousands to collectors, and almost never come back onto the market as 'flips'; presumably this type of fake caters for a sector of the WIS community that wants something of quality, handmade by an expert, and as near as dammit to an original.
Then there is the (very) good quality reproduction, usually of modern models of popular makes - particularly Rolex and Panerai. It is all very well saying - 'Oh, I saw a PAM today, and it was obviously a fake' - but some of the new ones are so good that you can't tell them apart from a genuine watch unless you actually compare them, under a loupe, with the real deal. I have one of the original PAM 186 GMT's, and I've been able to compare my genuine watch with a so called 'Ultimate' replica, hand built in Hong Kong, that has an Asian 7750 movement (real GMT hand, adjustable separately), regulated to +4 seconds a day, relumed hands and dial, double AR on sapphire crystal (only seen to be very, very slightly off colour when viewed under HQ LED lighting), water resistance pressure tested (with certificate from a private watchmaker in Germany) to 100m, and a near perfect "Lello" date wheel; the result of the comparison was that the replica came a very close second after a five minute examination - and I KNEW that mine was the genuine article, and the other watch was duff before I started. The cost of the replica? US$300! I can quite understand people buying something of this type, as whatever else, it's a bloody good watch for the equivalent of £200 (use it instead of your real one when working late in Brixton?? I don't know); whether they wear it and pretend it is real, or quite happily acknowledge that it is fake, is, I suppose, entirely up to them.
Strangely, I am told, people will buy this type of watch and then spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds fitting genuine dials, hands, crowns, and even movements in order to make them as close to 'gen' as possible. Don't ask - I can't fathom it, either!!! The big worry with quality fakes like these is that they can, and do, enter the normal market place, virtually indistinguishable from a real Panerai, or Rolex, or whatever. Caveat Emptor.
Finally, there are the cheapo articles that abound in places like the MBK Center in Bangkok, which for the most part are unmistakeably fake and nasty - US$50 for a quartz 'Bell and Ross', that may or may not work until you get off the 'plane in Heathrow. Why anyone would want to buy these, I am not quite sure, but bearing in mind the massive turnover the MBK shops have, there is certainly a market for them. Most of these types of fakes are easy to distinguish from their genuine counterparts, so I can't imagine that they would be bragged about after purchase, as they seem obviously different from the real thing.
To each his own, I suppose, and this subject, definition, etc. has been laboured over for years on various forums, so make up your own mind.
I watch a few of the rep forums and have seen all this. It's a little bit weird when taken to the nth degree, but hasn't been an issue with anything I've wanted and bought so far. The difficulty for me comes with things like the BP Fifty Fathoms, particularly the Polish or Milspec 1 versions - I've been thinking of getting one for a while, but I just don't know where to start - looking around on the net it seems that many if not all of the ones on the market are frankens, adulterated or outright fakes. With the issue of frankens in particular, it does make one think about the value that we all attach to originality and how on earth one could hope to prove it, or even if it should be of any importance.Strangely, I am told, people will buy this type of watch and then spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds fitting genuine dials, hands, crowns, and even movements in order to make them as close to 'gen' as possible. Don't ask - I can't fathom it, either!!! The big worry with quality fakes like these is that they can, and do, enter the normal market place, virtually indistinguishable from a real Panerai, or Rolex, or whatever. Caveat Emptor.
I'll probably just pick up a PRS-50 for the time being and try to learn a little more about the matter in hand, but from what I've seen it makes buying a non-rare vintage Sub about as straightforward as buying a kettle by comparison.
Nah, why buy fakes? I am sure there are a lot of authentic alternatives at every price point...
I dont like fake anything.
There is a boy I used to work with that collects fakes, and he has the fake of most of my watches and he often used to comment that I was stupid because my collection cost me several times his collection and that no one would know the difference. My answer was simple I do.
If anyone wants to buy a fakes, freedom of choice etc etc not for me though.
Here is a question would you buy your SWMBO a fake hand bag?
Errrrh........hell yes, then i have more money to buy a REAL watch :D
NO
because even if it was top quality, it would still be the wrong colour, shape etc....
Strange creatures - just smile & let them get on with it... :roll:
This is a valid point you make! :lol:NO
because even if it was top quality, it would still be the wrong colour, shape etc....
Strange creatures - just smile & let them get on with it... :roll:
Personally I will have nothing to do with fakes.
You can buy a decent quality mechanical Seiko 5 very cheaply if you just want to tell the time and I'd rather wear that than fake anything.
Cheers,
Neil.
I think that part of the reason people get so worked up about fake watches, is that the top brands are the ones that will get copied the most. So if you own a genuine Daytona as a example, people will think oh, that must be a fake, and it's this point that hacks people off, as you feel that your Daytona has now been cheapened by the comments.
i was taught some years ago that kitsch is anything that pretends to be something else than what it is.
if this is accepted, fakes are kitsch, by default. therefore, i reject these watches without any regrets.
I dont get worked up about fake watches, I have aboslutely no concern what other people have. If someone thinks anything I have is fake I couldnt care less because I know its real and thats all that matters. Personally I dont see the point in buying a fake, IMO it makes you a fake. I dont even have any fake DVDs, if you want something and cant afford it, work harder and get it.I think that part of the reason people get so worked up about fake watches, is that the top brands are the ones that will get copied the most. So if you own a genuine Daytona as a example, people will think oh, that must be a fake, and it's this point that hacks people off, as you feel that your Daytona has now been cheapened by the comments.
Anyway 9 times out of 10 the wanting is better than the having.
2p :)
i try to stay from posting from threads like this because they've been done before, etc.
i'll only say that anyone who gets worked up over other people thinking that their genuine watch is a fake are probably more motivated by impressing others with their watch purchases than they themselves get out of wearing the watch for its own merits.
no one has ever suggested that any of my watches were fakes and if confronted that way, i wouldn't be offended or bothered in the least. i'd tell them (with a huge smile on my face) that it's genuine and if they felt strongly enough to disagree, we could settle on a nice sizable bet before-hand and then get the watch authenticated. easy money in my book. :lol: (i'd probably try to egg them on to make a bet by saying something like, "And you think it's a fake because...?")
True. Then again buying my long sought after SMP was definately the exception.
+1 for me. A fake branded watch is trying to fool people into thining it is something it is not and IMo the same goes for the person wearing it. If you cannot afford, or dont want to spend your cashon, the real thing then buy something else, there are plenty of decent, honest watches around.
IMO fake watches are about as classy as fake desinger clothes :twisted:
Each to there own and all that :|
I usually find a couple of fakes when I buy a job lot to repair. They're still useful for parts hands, cases, crystals anything except the dial. The oil wears a fake Rolex I got like this cos she liked the look of it, and to be honest it takes a real beating and just keeps going Myota quartz movement.
As the fakes become even better made and finished. I also believe that people who buy expensive brands become a fraction "upset" that theirs cost a unrealistic amount more. And for what? To call a man who wears a fake watch a "fake" is silly. He just has a very realistic idea of what he thinks a "watch " is worth to him, Be it £50 or £3000 and might be secure enough not to worry what others think !
If you are that secure then why wear something that purports to be what it is not?
Very inexpensive decent quality watches are easily available, look at Seiko and Citizen.
People obviously wear fake watches to try to deceive others or themselves.
As a WIS I just can't stand them.
Cheers,
Neil.
A genuine article costs what it costs, it does not cost an unrealistic ammount more. I would say buying a fake you are trying to pass it off as something real, call it a status symbol if you will, so I would say in buying a fake you want people to think its real. Other wise you would buy a £50 wrist watch from goldsmiths if you didnt care what others think.
In the same vien as putting an M3 badge on a 320i. Why would you do it unless you wanted people to think you had the genuine article.
Pointless in my opinion.
P.S. not worked up or upset just my opinion :D
I think it's not as simple as that, more that some folks just don't have the cash for an expensive watch, but would still like one.
These guys are not WIS, but still like the watches, therefore are quite happy to have a replica, just on the looks alone, not to deceive anyone.
The fake\replica watch problem is now so big, that even Casio's are being faked. It's my guess there are more fake watches around than genuine, and moaning about it on a forum will not stop it.
This post has been full of "fake watch, fake man" quotes, but I'm not really hearing what it is, that's getting people so uptight.
If someone buys and wears a fake watch, I couldn't care less, it does not effect me in any way, nor should it effect anyone else.
+ Another.+1 for me....
Although personally I see it as a sign of inadequacy mixed in with the dishonesty. The wearer would be someone to be pitied rather than trusted... The way you'd feel for someone who chose to buy replica brake pads for his car :dark1: You feel sorry for him... But you ain't accepting his offer of a lift.
Incidentally, a guy I know insists his gold "Bolex" Day-Date is real (because the second hand sweeps rather than jerks), despite the fact the President bracelet is two-tone on a flat (rather than concealed) clasp. :pukeleft:
Mike.
You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else: you have no more right to say what should or shouldn't effect anyone else than they of you.I think it's not as simple as that, more that some folks just don't have the cash for an expensive watch, but would still like one. So? There's lots of thing's we'd all like but cannot afford, doesn't mean we go and obtain fakes. They could always do what lots of others do - save up for it - if they'd really like one.
These guys are not WIS, but still like the watches, therefore are quite happy to have a replica, just on the looks alone, not to deceive anyone. They could buy a similar/hommage, but they don't: instead they buy something that pretends to be what it is not, a fake; they are deceiving -or attempting to - others.
The fake\replica watch problem is now so big, that even Casio's are being faked. It's my guess there are more fake watches around than genuine, and moaning about it on a forum will not stop it. Has anybody suggested moaning about it would stop it?
This post has been full of "fake watch, fake man" quotes, but I'm not really hearing what it is, that's getting people so uptight. Suggest you re-read it again, there are plenty of comments as to why members do not like fakes.
If someone buys and wears a fake watch, I couldn't care less, it does not effect me in any way, nor should it effect anyone else.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I bought a fake Omega PO 42mm recently and was very surprised at the quality and finish of the watch. Its very very good, at some point I was thinking of buying the real thing but having bought the excellent fake I won't bother - its certainly not worth the £2K extra. The fake has made me realise that spending more than a £1K on a watch is just to over the top for me. I recently bought a Tutima and will probably buy a Sinn but i'll still wear the fake PO.
Sorry, but some are.
How many people shout "fake watch, fake man" while illegally downloading movies and MP3s? :lol:
:? That is simply theft.Sorry, but some are.
How many people shout "fake watch, fake man" while illegally downloading movies and MP3s? :lol:
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
No it isn't. It's copyright infringement. Fake watches are trademark infringement.
There is very little difference, legally, unless of course you try to pass off counterfeit goods as genuine in a trade.
They also do some really good fake designer clothing down the market, can't tell it from the real thing from a distance.
Get your old woman one of those fake handbags and it's all pukka. :lol: :wink:
Look great striding out. :D
Cheers,
Neil.
For me there are some distinct points regarding this issue.
If a person buys a homage - homage being a watch that looks similar to an original but has no trademark issues (not named as per original etc.) then they may be doing this to see if the style of watch is for them without laying out the cash. There is no attempt kid the buyer or others thst it is something it is not.
If a person knowingly buys a fake watch then they are clearly not kidding themselves since they bought it in the full knowledge that it is a lemon - there is clearly an attempt to make others believe it is the genuine article. For me this is so shallow, almost a 'look at me I have an XXXX watch' and 'oh, by the way it's a fake'.
There are plenty of fora dedicated to fake watches - maybe that is the place for owners to discuss the merits (sic) of such things?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Agreed.
Fakes are a real shame because as has been said before people will assume that you don't have the real thing even if it is genuine. But then really why does that matter? You should be buying a watch for yourself not to impress people.
Fake watches are unlike other fake items though in my opinion.
If you put 'M' badges on your BMW as well as being an utter tool you're also likely to get found out as soon as you put your foot down.
If you buy a fake handbag its likely to fall apart in pretty short order.
The problem that I can see with fake watches is this; They seem to be getting better all the time, although the movement is generally quite poor. What will happen when the fakers produce a watch that is 100% the same as an original? Of course to start with they will be expensive....
Here is my question:
You have two watches, they are identical inside and out. One costs £3500 and the other £150. At what point does it become pure madness to spend the extra money? You might argue that the fake will be inferior due to finishing and the materials used. And you'd be right....as it stands. What of the future?
I suppose the second question is what can be done to stop this?
It is still illegal.No it isn't. It's copyright infringement. Fake watches are trademark infringement.
There is very little difference, legally, unless of course you try to pass off counterfeit goods as genuine in a trade.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
That's changing the subject. Decent rhetoric, not so good in a pursuit of truth.Sorry, but some are.
How many people shout "fake watch, fake man" while illegally downloading movies and MP3s? :lol:
One good reason to use linux (or *BSD) is that license management is much easier. (I don't condone using, or use, movies, music or software which I'm not legally entitled to use.[1])
[1] I am a sinner, but not so pedestrian a sinner. ;)
Best wishes,
Bob
Very emotive subject this, with strong views all round.
Personally, after being on sh1t wages for most of my life, I can now afford to treat myself now and then.
I buy a watch as a treat to myself. Something that has quality and prestige and that I have aspired to own.
When I have the new watch I feel that I have achieved, and that my hard work and diligent saving has been rewarded.
It is a luxury that I enjoy, regardless of the thoughts of others.
A 'fake' can never deliver this feeling to me.
However, there are some watches that I quite like the look of but do not feel they are worth anywhere near their asking price.
One of these being a Panerai.
If someone offered me a half decent copy for £30 (after a couple of beers) I would probably buy it. Not to pretend it's 'real' but more because it seems like good value for money - if that makes any sense?
Maybe this explains the popularity of those "MM's" that are banned !
So explain to me - i have a "real" expensive watch and i have a fake of the same model - i wear both, with no intention of fooling/kidding anyone shallow enough to judge someone by the watch they wear.
I wear the fake because i know it might piss shallow people off who think such trivial things are important :D
Oh, I don't think you are allowed to have a foot on each side of this issue round here. But well done for posting an honest answer, so many people are hiding behind BS on this issue.
Lets be honest, this is a watch forum full of WIS's, fakes and the people who wear them are not going to get positive comments here.
Absolutely. And let he who is without etc.
If you're running a pirate copy of Windows, Photoshop, etc, then you're on exactly the same legal ground as someone buying a fake watch.
However, I hope we're not discussing the legalities of the fake trade as that will end up with a lot of people mumbling under their breath something about a prior appointment with a man, a dog and some about seeing. What most people on watch forums take umbrage with is that they see it as a personal attack on them and their hobby, and that's in a sense understandable, after all we're all drawn here by the love of watches.
If you're going to express outrage, at least make it about a defensible view. You hate fakes because they make your Rolex less awesome? That's fair enough, and possibly the only defensible stance. You hate fakes because they're illegal? You'd better be standing on very solid ground before you bring that one here. You hate fakes because they're made in sweatshops that exploit people? Hate electronics and other goods from the far east. You hate fakes because they support terrorism? That's never been true, unless the Chinese have suddenly changed location, religion, government and philosophy. You hate fakes because they're inferior? I hope to whatever deity you praise that you never open a high-quality fake and spot the ETA logo on the insides.
Yes, fakes are morally suspect and do hurt the new watch industry and people using them to defraud unsuspecting punters on eBay should be buried alive in their own filth, but that doesn't mean someone wearing a fake Planet Ocean is a fake person any less than someone running a pirated copy of Windows is.
I'm not defending an illegal trade or suggesting you all buy fakes; I am merely calling for a little perspective.
Another view point, and going through the posts seems to confirm it - that people are willing to judge a person by what they wear on their wrists, and so by reasoning must be worried about being judged themselves -
As the bible says - Don't judge, lest you be judged. :D
Blimey, religion and fakes all in the one thread - :drunken: Now who's going to mention politics
Probably some Tory will bring it up and ... oh, wait.
:lol:
Thank God we are all different, eh!
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
The first reply was an instance, not a question.
Look at the second part - I think you may have missed the word "might" in my sentance - which defeats your point. :D
heres my debadged fake. .eta 2836 inside. love it 8)
not my pic
Yes and no. Someone for whom I have the very highest regard, wears a cheap black plastic watch, and dresses like a not very well off gardener. I don't judge his character or intelligence by his clear lack of interest in watches, or his "interesting" dress sense. If I knew he started wearing a fake watch, I would probably re-evaluate. But, certainly, the very idea of his wearing a fake watch (or faking anything) is pretty much inconceivable.
Best wishes,
Bob
Neil sums it up perfectly for me. A true WIS wouldn't buy a fake as they know that good quality and interesting watches can be had at most price points.If you are that secure then why wear something that purports to be what it is not?
Very inexpensive decent quality watches are easily available, look at Seiko and Citizen.
People obviously wear fake watches to try to deceive others or themselves.
As a WIS I just can't stand them.
If you aren't a WIS why would you want a Rolex on your wrist? Only to fool people into buying into some plastic image of yourself that you'd like to portray. I work very hard and one of the most pleasurable results is being able to save and eventually buy watches that I've researched and longed for.
Fakes are not for me.
WRT people being shallow enough to judge someone by the watch they wear, perhaps there are such people who would judge one by a watch alone; I really don't know.The first reply was an instance, not a question.
''So explain to me" is a question, in my book anyway.
Look at the second part - I think you may have missed the word "might" in my sentance - which defeats your point. :D
I wasn't making a point. So, OK: how might it piss them off if they don't know it is a fake? :roll:
But I do know people who will judge one by that person's integrity. :wink:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
This thread is getting boring.... :roll:
Stop it now - or I'll start handing out the plastic spoons and union jack boxers.... :thumbright:
a non wis thinks a rolex is the best watch in the world even a fake one. he's heard of rolex everyone has. if you gave the non wis a choice between (insert any decent watch here) and a well made fake with an auto movt and told him its a fake i'll bet he'll still pick it over the other brand. and doesnt give a flying about wether its illegal and nonsense like that. thats how powerfull a brand/image can be. you even see this image thing among people starting off getting interested in watches 'a non swiss watch cant be that good can it' 'its only a seiko' 'i cant buy that even if its very good its made in china so its crap.
WRT people being shallow enough to judge someone by the watch they wear, perhaps there are such people who would judge one by a watch alone; I really don't know.The first reply was an instance, not a question.
''So explain to me" is a question, in my book anyway.
Look at the second part - I think you may have missed the word "might" in my sentance - which defeats your point. :D
I wasn't making a point. So, OK: how might it piss them off if they don't know it is a fake? :roll:
This verbal ping pong, is quite boring. I'm after some real opinions on why, when somebody else is wearing a fake watch it creates such feeling, for me it makes no difference, let them get on with it IMO. I'm happy with my modest collection of genuine watches.
Also, while we are on the subject of "fakes" there seems to be very little objection to Katie Price's fakes!!!
R
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