as most of you probably know i'm a doorman full time (bouncer if you will) and as part of my job i constantly notice the animosity between us and the punters.
People look at you as if you are just there to kick their heads in (which we aren't) and they immediately do themselves no favours.
Take a guy last night as an example, me and my mate Andy (they call us the two Andy's :D ) were standing there when a rather drunk guy walks past, he slurs his words to ask if we have been standing there all night to which i nod in agreement, he then decides along with his mate to make a comment to Andy saying "who you gonna stop" Andy immediately bites and says "i'll stop you if you get in my way" to which i jump in, the guy then starts hurling abuse saying he was asking a question to which i politely reminded him that it wasn't a question it was an insinuation that we were incapable of doing our job, and offered to show him how i would stop him should he choose to "have a go" he turns to walk away mouthing off at the same time calling me a fat blind bald c@*t but why did he feel the need to, as many other punters do, to shout abuse at 2 people doing there job??? the answer is demonstrated with the attitude that most doormen give off to punters (staring them down) me personally i open doors, greet people and say good night, so i expect to be treated with an ounce of the same respect i give to them, but it doesn't happen, almost makes you wanna stoop to their level!!! a perfect example of behaviour and attitude breeding similar behaviour and attitude.
Thanks,
Andrew
Whilst not all bouncers are saints, I don't know how they, bar staff, and anyone who has to face the public (drunk or sober) on a day to day basis cope and I have a huge amount of respect for those who can do it well. If I had a job that involved dealing with the public on a full-time (or any-time) basis, I'd be sacked / in hospital / in prison within a week.
Hi Andrew - I wondered where you'd been for the past few days!
Youth, alcohol, being a 'big man' when in a group and not having the edges knocked off them yet are nearly always the reasons for such ill-manered behaviour and you don't have to be on a door to see it on a daily basis.
Everyone is capable of stooping down to their level, but it will never pay a dividend. It sounds like you have been surrounded by crap for a bit too long and it's starting to take it's toll, as it would on anyone.
If possible try and get a bit of perspective and possibly a day or two off to see that there is some beauty in life as well - sounds poncy, but it's true. There are plenty of decent people out there too!
Keep your own standards Andrew - you can be a class act and a doorman too :)
Andrew - I think you guys have perhaps one of the most difficult jobs it's possible to imagine. No doubt you've heard of Geoff Thompson, who went from being a doorman to successful writer. Some of his stories would make Chuck Norris' hair stand on end!
Maybe you just need a break from all the nutters you must meet - the stress level must be horrendous at times.
Alcohol - it was invented by ugly women... :lol:
but being serious for a few seconds, it stops the brain from functioning correctly resulting in lack of inhibitions and reasonable thought processes.
inhibitions and thought processes are 'learned' behaviour - due to upbringing and the society we live in.
When you look at the state of our society in the sober light of day it's no wonder people act the way they do after a few shandies....
personally, when I get steaming, I either dance like a prat or fall asleep..
That's why I don't drink very often... :lol: :lol:
Many of the older generation (at 46 I include myself) despise "bouncers" because of the bad old days when they literally got away with murder. I have seen joe public turn en masse because of the liberties they were taking with drunks on more than one occasion.
However, regulation has helped to take some of the thuggery, and the control of drugs away from the criminal element that used to control the doors. This is one of the few instances where I actively applaud regulation.
I'm just grateful that I no longer feel the need to frequent the type of establishment that needs bouncers......................... in other words, I'm an old git :lol:
Originally Posted by catflem
I find myself nodding in agreement...although if you go anywhere other than the Legion :D there seems to be an obligation to stick a bouncer on the door these days. Sign of the times?
Andrew...you've got a difficult job dealing with the drunken public at large so i admire you for doing it.
However,i can't help but feel that you both were too quick to revert to the classic stereotype of the bouncer. Obviously i wasn't there and i'm only going by your post but i think that it would be so much better if you kept to your polite manner (or ignoring the arse).
As you may gather by my previous post i sort have an old animosity towards bouncers (yes i know, doormen, but without intending offense i will stick to bouncer) and its not been garnered through physical altercation.
While we're here perhaps you can answer a question?
Why is it that a pissed up tart can turn up and get into anywhere in whatever state they like(bar vomiting in the doorway) and wearing whatever the hell they like and always get in....yet a bloke turns up sober at the start of the night and can't come in because they are either wearing what the nob (no offense intended) on the door deems inappropriate footwear, or doesn't have collars on?
Bloody ridiculous.
Rant over but i am interested in the answer!
a simple answer would be management, despite sexual descrimination being deemed "un-lawful" women are a gold mine in a club, and the more of them there are in the better!!! i'll let a woman in half naked and with 2 litres of vodka passing through her vains, because there will be 5 blokes in after her trying to buy her a drink and be the lucky so and so who gets to have her vomit in his mouth at the end of the night.
I'm pretty fair with attire usually, although chavs in "henleys project" tee shirts usually get told to piss off.
Bouncers are generally sterotypical, and a mix of us being tired (i work during the day AND at night) and already rather aggresive people trying to uphold a "reputation" means that at times a drunk individual letting his mouth loose could end up in a rather nasty mess (usually with a few nice indentations on his skull from someones fist) i can gladly say i have never ever hit anyone, and have had the good fortune to be able to either reason with people or scare them sufficiantly into backing down.
Tough job, but for £12 per hour there ain't much else out there that can compete for someone like me :)
Thanks,
Andrew
Have you heard that bouncers are being trained to be able to give on the spot fines for anti social behaviour?
It could appear the bouncers/doormen of the fancy shops down Sloane Street might have quite a cushy job, and well done Andrew for keeping your cool - reasoning is always the best medicine, but alcohol has this ability to make certain men grow .... :wink:
Peter
He wasn't blind drunk then :lol:
Respect the past, live the present, protect the future
oh dear...now you're in trouble...
:cry: now you've hurt my feeling you big bully, i'm telling my mum!!! :twisted:He wasn't blind drunk then :lol:
Thanks,
Andrew
yeah i've done a few jewellers in my time, cushy ain't the word, it's piss easy and such a nice place to work, plus the rich totty that comes in is to die for.
Also i worked for a jewellers that sold high class watches and got talking to the owner (she noticed my Breitling) i actually got to try on some LOVELEY stuff during my break, way out of my price range though :lol:
Thanks,
Andrew
A good example at the tube station today of the sort of attitude that staff facing the public have to endure every day; I'd just finished buying a new season ticket when a young kid, 14 or 15 maybe, wearing a hooded top, pimp rolls up to the counter and says:
Listen. I wanna top this up, innit. Three pounds.
Practically threw his money at her, just to put the icing on the cake. Absolutely infuriating, and I'm fairly certain I'd struggle to put up with that for 8 hours a day.
I think doormen/bouncers are great. The last time I was in a club some drunk bint spilt her drink down me then proceeded to hurl abuse saying it was my fault. Over comes the bouncer to see what the fuss is. Now at this point I fully expected to be ejected from said club :roll: But no! The bouncer had seen the whole thing and calmly escorted the drunken tart to the exit. :lol:
In fact the only time I have had 'beef' with the 'management' was years ago when I was young and foolish. Oh and quite drunk.
A pretty thankless task you have in your job, methinks.
Really it's all about respect and politeness - I know some doormen have a bad rep, but I find a smile, a hello and a pleasant attitude goes a long way and is always reciprocated.
The muppets you encountered have a lot to learn about respect and good manners, but unfortunately this is a sign of the times.
Seems t ome they look at you for exactly what you did.
Why? Because you challenged him. You state you are respectful and expect the same, but you're not.
Whether you're a bouncer, car salesman, or whatever, you get what you give.
Hi Andrew - interested to read that you wore your Breitling while working at a jewellers, is that your usual choice or would you wear something else at less up-market venues?
Cheers
yeah mate take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine, feel offended yet? probably, maybe you're feeling the same way that i did then? maybe you want to defend your opinion? maybe you'd even fight for it, maybe??? well then your on my level mate.Seems t ome they look at you for exactly what you did.
Why? Because you challenged him. You state you are respectful and expect the same, but you're not.
Whether you're a bouncer, car salesman, or whatever, you get what you give.
Thanks,
Andrew
Breitling for easy jobs like that matey, clubs gets a "no watch" policy, but on a nice easy door staff job like a jewellers or a leisure centre then the Breitling gets strapped on, whats the point in having it if i don't wear it at any given oppurtunity :D
you'll be a long time waiting for the respect you expect Andy especially standing on doors where drinkings involved. i wouldnt worry about it, just keep your wits about you for the ones who just want to kick 'your' head in stab you whatever because of the drink or the fun of it.
karl
Not sure your logic works for me. However, your aggressive response seems to affirm my comment. I'll say it again - you wonder why people are aggressive to you when you're aggressive with them. Huh. Duh. :stfu: I could hardly give a crap what you say and don't feel how you felt. I hope I defended my opinion. Fight? HaHa. If this is your response to a response to your question, then you are the lout you complain about. Looking for compassion when there is aggression and threatening actions from you? Grow up. A lot faster than you seem to have in the last year and half on this forum. Don't like your situation in life, don't ask on a watch forum how to change it - just do it, through forced maturation, education, life experiences.yeah mate take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine, feel offended yet? probably, maybe you're feeling the same way that i did then? maybe you want to defend your opinion? maybe you'd even fight for it, maybe??? well then your on my level mate.Seems t ome they look at you for exactly what you did.
Why? Because you challenged him. You state you are respectful and expect the same, but you're not.
Whether you're a bouncer, car salesman, or whatever, you get what you give.
Thanks,
Andrew
:lol: ooh anyone for tea and a lemon fancy?
karl
My post was designed to make you bite, which you have with a verbal tirade similar to the one i used on our good friend mr drunk prat, guess it worked :D your now on my level good sir, welcome, it's a nice place to be!!!Not sure your logic works for me. However, your aggressive response seems to affirm my comment. I'll say it again - you wonder why people are aggressive to you when you're aggressive with them. Huh. Duh. :stfu: I could hardly give a crap what you say and don't feel how you felt. I hope I defended my opinion. Fight? HaHa. If this is your response to a response to your question, then you are the lout you complain about. Looking for compassion when there is aggression and threatening actions from you? Grow up. A lot faster than you seem to have in the last year and half on this forum. Don't like your situation in life, don't ask on a watch forum how to change it - just do it, through forced maturation, education, life experiences.yeah mate take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine, feel offended yet? probably, maybe you're feeling the same way that i did then? maybe you want to defend your opinion? maybe you'd even fight for it, maybe??? well then your on my level mate.Seems t ome they look at you for exactly what you did.
Why? Because you challenged him. You state you are respectful and expect the same, but you're not.
Whether you're a bouncer, car salesman, or whatever, you get what you give.
Thanks,
Andrew
Thanks,
Andrew
don't mind if i do, been ages since i've scoffed a few of those bad boys!!!! :D
There used to be a bouncer at a club I visited irregularly.
She used to humiliate people verbally, let them wait for
no reason and then, after some time, deny them entry
because they answered wrongly to her verbal abuse.
One day I heard she was ambushed after a shift and
got the crap beaten out of her, she was hospitalised.
She had it coming, everyone in town knew and hated
her, it was only a matter of time for this to happen.
It was an obvious case of abuse of power.
I always greet doormen in a friendly way and maybe
even chat a bit in the waiting queue, which has gotten
me in anywhere so far. Mostly they seem quite pleasantly
surprised being greeted by someone in a good mood at
such late an hour.
And once a guy knocked me down on the dance floor
because I had apparently invaded his space.
It took around ten seconds for the bouncer to arrive
and eject the guy. I was offered a drink for my troubles.
The bouncer really made my day on that occasion.
Doormen with issues of arrogance, abuse of power etc.
will get what they deserve sooner or later.
The good ones who are doing their job professionally
and friendly stay on.
The hard bit is maintaining the attitude while being
tested every night by random idiots or drunks.
And if I should meet a WIS doorman I'd probably
invite him for a drink and talk about watches, heh.
And by the same token, perhaps that's what the person calling you a fat c*nt was trying to do, or was he? :twisted: My tirade didn't include threats, which yours did. If a lout acts like a lout but no one saw it, is he still a lout?My post was designed to make you bite, which you have with a verbal tirade similar to the one i used on our good friend mr drunk prat, guess it worked :D your now on my level good sir, welcome, it's a nice place to be!!!Not sure your logic works for me. However, your aggressive response seems to affirm my comment. I'll say it again - you wonder why people are aggressive to you when you're aggressive with them. Huh. Duh. :stfu: I could hardly give a crap what you say and don't feel how you felt. I hope I defended my opinion. Fight? HaHa. If this is your response to a response to your question, then you are the lout you complain about. Looking for compassion when there is aggression and threatening actions from you? Grow up. A lot faster than you seem to have in the last year and half on this forum. Don't like your situation in life, don't ask on a watch forum how to change it - just do it, through forced maturation, education, life experiences.yeah mate take your opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine, feel offended yet? probably, maybe you're feeling the same way that i did then? maybe you want to defend your opinion? maybe you'd even fight for it, maybe??? well then your on my level mate.Seems t ome they look at you for exactly what you did.
Why? Because you challenged him. You state you are respectful and expect the same, but you're not.
Whether you're a bouncer, car salesman, or whatever, you get what you give.
Thanks,
Andrew
Thanks,
Andrew
What would you do, now that you're a tenured bouncer?
Last week I went to a night club in Stretford but when I got to the door the bouncer said "I'm sorry but you can't come in because you haven't got a tie on". I went back to my car and searched for a tie but couldn't find one anywhere. Just then I spotted a pair of jump leads in the boot of the car so I wrapped them around my neck. I walked back up to the bouncer, who looked me up and down and said "alright you can come in, but don't start anything"
TAXI!
been there done that when i was a teen
alcohol and women dont go well together :wink:
people drink to forget,to be brave, etc and the effect of it to behaviour is not so good (especially on a daily basis and not weekend social drinker)
most drinkers need to cut down anyway and find a hobby :roll:
I was going to post a reply earlier in the week, but got sidetracked. Having read the above, I think it is worth putting up what I intended to post.
My experience of bouncers (I don't bother dignifying the title) is almost wholly bad. There is a belief, largely true, that pubs are forced into employing the staff of 'security firms' merely as a form of extortion. It's effectively protection money paid by other means. A friend of mine who opened a bar in Derby says it happens everywhere. The registration of bouncers is meaningless, as there's a steady stream of people who have only their bulk as a cv.
Another friend's father is a magistrate in a town which used to be known for 'trouble,' and as it always seemed to involve bouncers, he had a byelaw passed which banned pubs from having door staff. The trouble stopped almost overnight.
I have been in a pub in my local town, where six bouncers regularly stand outside the front door, in their black gloves (in August...) when the back door stands unguarded. Thus making their presence at the front a waste of time. If you're going to stop trouble in pubs, there are existing laws which could be applied to do it. For example, it is illegal for a pub to serve any more alcohol to already intoxicated customers. The police can close a pub on the spot if they suspect this law has been broken, but there are rarely the police numbers around to contain the ensuing, almost inevitable situation. (it's amazing how little crime there is really- if people knew how few people actually police most towns, there's be anarchy. Remember folks, crime pays! :lol: )
Bouncers shouldn't be noticed, if they're actually doing their job- watching inside a pub. Door staff don't stop trouble, they just stop certain people from entering. That's all they can do.
I also have experience of Birmingham, a town still stuck in the dark ages as far as door staff. You still get the "sorry lads, can't help you" if there are more than two guys. You still have "no trainers" policies (I'm not making this up) and you still get "your shirt must button all the way up." This is in a city that purports to be a major international business venue with "buzzing nightlife." I was in Jewel last week, in Piccadilly (London), and guess what- trainers, jeans, no problem. Brum's pigheaded doormen haven't cottoned on to the fact that if you're out for a rumble, you just dress up.
Customers simply don't like bouncers. There are not enough of them behaving professionally, and most of them are cocks.
That's why you feel animosity.
True - when I was younger I had a weekend job in a nightclub; the head bouncer was an ex-heavyweight boxer in his late 50s who normally just stayed inside smoking his pipe, would spot trouble early and calm things down with a large hand on the shoulder and a few words. It was practically unheard of for anything to kick off and pretty rare for anyone to be thrown out, and this was in a rough seaside resort. The flip side being that whilst working in the resort, it was totally evident that as you say, the majority of bouncers in the town were effectively supplied as part of a protection racket.Bouncers shouldn't be noticed, if they're actually doing their job- watching inside a pub.
My recollections of bouncers from being younger are pretty negative though on the whole - certainly in Sheffield in the 90s the whole "smart casual" thing was still the norm at most clubs at the weekend, regardless of the fact that one's jeans that get you knocked back could cost more than the entire ensemble from Castle Market that would let other people in. Thankfully I'm now at the age where bouncers are effectively there to greet you at the start of the night and to call you a car at the end, but as a younger person going to different sorts of places, my memories aren't great.
Speaking of doormen, this is one of my best friends who I went to school with and I started karate at the same club as him in Manchester. The advances he has made and the way he has turned his skills into a living are quite astonishing:-
http://www.peterconsterdine.com/newm...id=5&Itemid=95
I wont be filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, I am not a number, I am a free man, my life is my own!!!
Be seeing you
Toodle pip
Griff.
I hear what your saying Dawson. I used to do some door work at the local Uni bar\nightclub. the punters where mainly kids left to their own devices and away from mum and dad for the first time. I was only early twenties myself but some of "em used to drink themselves into a right slurring state and when the clever ones used come over and say things like. "nice career" or "you standin there all night"? It was annoying but you have to humor them. But it could be difficult when the rugby team came in after doing the 14 other bars on campus :roll: . The beach parties where always great fun though young women in bikinis. :D :D
I just wish there were more doormen like you mate. From my experience doormen, especially in the fancier establishments use their power to try to put other people down, take out aggression on punters and 9/10 fail to protect vulnerable parties by throwing everyone out even if it was a fight in which one guy is threatened and beaten by a group of guys.
However I've met a few (despite appearances) sound and respectable individuals who work doors with whom I train with at a local boxing gym. They, like you do a job that is vital and want to be fair and honest. With any profession there are good and bag eggs but you're right until anyone wrongs you, noone should jump to conclusions.
Andrew
You "offered to show him"
Thats where a few more years of "life" will teach you to not go down that road.
In my opinion the situation was badly handled. I think I can speak from some experience of this situation when sorting out problems seeing pubs out as a police officer. You should try applying some humour and turn a potentially nasty situation into a positive.
Throwing your weight around won't win a situation. I could have arrested many drunk nutters if I wanted, but just talking to them with a smile often brought an apology and they went away no problem at all. Works most of the time :)
Rod
Andrew
I would like to ask you a question.
For what reason do you feel the need to be so Vocal about being in the army or security/door staff etc? You are very young etc and i wonder if you are trying to create some sort of image etc? I read through some of your posts and i almost feel that you are insecure about your real self and possibly want to be some sort of "hard Guy". I for one would not ever wish to be doing any form of security work etc with someone like yourself ,who feels they need to 'show some muscle"
Keep that up and you will become a "target" . And You do not have the experience to deal with it.
hi andrew
if you think this is bad try swapping jobs with a policeman for the night
thanks
dave
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Bullied as a kid is the answer mate pure and simple, when people ask why i do the job i do thats what i'll tell 'em, if you'd gone through what i'd gone through you'd want to do something that gave you a little self respect and made you feel better about yourself.
Andrew
I would like to ask you a question.
For what reason do you feel the need to be so Vocal about being in the army or security/door staff etc? You are very young etc and i wonder if you are trying to create some sort of image etc? I read through some of your posts and i almost feel that you are insecure about your real self and possibly want to be some sort of "hard Guy". I for one would not ever wish to be doing any form of security work etc with someone like yourself ,who feels they need to 'show some muscle"
Keep that up and you will become a "target" . And You do not have the experience to deal with it.
Being a doorman you do get abuse, but at the end of the day when someone asks what i do for a living and i tell them they instantly put an image (be it good or bad) in their head, and i like that, i've met up with people from school who bullied me and they are shocked at my size and appearance compared to what it used to be, and all of them now know what i do it may be fear, but i'd rather be feared by them than laughed at by them, hence why i don't work in a call centre or such like anymore.
I want to make a name for myself yeah, but not as a nutter who is hard as nails, more as a reliable doorman with no marks on his record and a history of being complimented by both bar management and clientele, which most recently i have been :)
Hope this helps clear up the whole "he's just a thug doorman" debate, ohhh and i know i handled it badly, it's part of the learning curve, thanks for all the comments guys, i hope in time i get better at the job and can become a well respected member of the security industry.
Thanks,
Andrew
Andrew, I'm not sure how old you are (hope this doesn't come across as patronising) but just forget about the bullies mate. They all have insecurities, which is why they bully and they are (hopefully) out of your life, so don't let them shape who you are now or become.
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