Wheel Alignment

[Hood]

So the wife's lease Mercedes goes in for it's service today.
I thought I'd let her get on with it as I figure she's old enough to know the usual upselling stuff.
That was my first mistake.
Needless to say an expensive bill has emerged at the end of the day.
The only thing I did emphasise was not to let them fit new tyres as we would get them through Blackcircles.
So one of the extras on the service that has been done was wheel alignment at an eye watering £280.
I am going to go the dealership tomorrow to pick up the car and going to ask why they would do wheel alignment before 2 new front tyres are changed.
Anyone in the know have any justification that they could give me for doing that?
Also going to ask why they have replaced rear discs and pads on a car at 18K miles when the sensors didn't reflect this ie.no warning light.
TIA

[Saint-Just]

For what it’s worth I was looking at changing SWMBO’s car tyres earlier today and it seems that very surprisingly Halfords was cheaper than Blackcircles for Michelin Crossclimate 2 (195/55 R16)
As a subsequent question, what other dimensions could I fit on those rims? Thinking of something like 205/55 R16.

[catflem]

For what it’s worth I was looking at changing SWMBO’s car tyres earlier today and it seems that very surprisingly Halfords was cheaper than Blackcircles for Michelin Crossclimate 2 (195/55 R16)
As a subsequent question, what other dimensions could I fit on those rims? Thinking of something like 205/55 R16.

That will make your speedo slightly less accurate (2%). It might also cause interference issues (ie tyre rubbing on bits that it shouldn't rub on whilst on full lock. But given the small increase in size it shouldn't cause any problems. You'll also have to change all 4 tyres as having odd sizes front and back might cause your abs light to come on.

If you have a quick google there are a number of tyre size calculators which will allow you to change the various parameters (width, profile).

[prexelor]

What did your wife agree to and who with? Probably adding on unnecessary charges and if a customer accepts, a win for them.

Garages are doing plenty of pocket alignment.

[craig1912]

£280 for wheel alignment… that’s crazy and 18k for new disks??
Think my wheel alignment was something like £75 and still on same disks at 36000

[RossC]

You can get a hunter wheel alignment from the usual suspects for £70 or so - but it's always done on the premise that they check first up on the jig as to whether it is required or falling within acceptable specs, free of charge, then give you the choice to proceed at the £70 or not... £280 just sounds like $tealer pricing at its best, but I would like to understand why/if it has been checked before proceeding with the alignment.

18k miles for a pair of discs is unacceptable for the fronts, never mind the rears which do not work as hard. I can pretty much guarantee these have been changed for the sake of upselling, and not out of any possible necessity.

[aa388]

You can get a hunter wheel alignment from the usual suspects for £70 or so - but it's always done on the premise that they check first up on the jig as to whether it is required or falling within acceptable specs, free of charge, then give you the choice to proceed at the £70 or not... £280 just sounds like $tealer pricing at its best, but I would like to understand why/if it has been checked before proceeding with the alignment.

18k miles for a pair of discs is unacceptable for the fronts, never mind the rears which do not work as hard. I can pretty much guarantee these have been changed for the sake of upselling, and not out of any possible necessity.

I’m hard on brakes, but the rear brakes on my Merc went first but that wasn’t till 50k miles, it’s the hold system that wears them out. As for the tracking BMW used to charge a fortune as they loaded the seats with weights to simulate bodies then adjusted them, whether it was a gimmick or not I never got to the bottom off, back to Merc though I used to get mine tracked frequently as it went through tyres like they were going out of fashion,

[Arcam]

I would be asking for the old brake parts back for an independent inspection, no way rear brakes have gone in 18k unless the vehicle has be on track days.

[oldoakknives]

So the wife's lease Mercedes goes in for it's service today.
I thought I'd let her get on with it as I figure she's old enough to know the usual upselling stuff.
That was my first mistake.
Needless to say an expensive bill has emerged at the end of the day.
The only thing I did emphasise was not to let them fit new tyres as we would get them through Blackcircles.
So one of the extras on the service that has been done was wheel alignment at an eye watering £280.
I am going to go the dealership tomorrow to pick up the car and going to ask why they would do wheel alignment before 2 new front tyres are changed.
Anyone in the know have any justification that they could give me for doing that?
Also going to ask why they have replaced rear discs and pads on a car at 18K miles when the sensors didn't reflect this ie.no warning light.
TIA

Better to correct the alignment to prevent uneven wear before fitting new tyres if the previous ones were worn unevenly. The alignment isn’t normally altered by tyre condition.

They would probably replace brakes if they thought they would wear out in the near future before the next service. Therefore saving the owner more downtime.

[craig1912]

Better to correct the alignment to prevent uneven wear before fitting new tyres if the previous ones were worn unevenly. The alignment isn’t normally altered by tyre condition.

They would probably replace brakes if they thought they would wear out in the near future before the next service. Therefore saving the owner more downtime.

Nothing wrong with having the alignment done, it’s how much he’s been charged. Something is also wrong if the disks have only lasted 18000 miles, they should last somewhere between 30000 and 80000.

Mine were checked today as part of a service at 36000. The car tells me the pads need doing in approx 9000 miles but discs are good for a couple of years.

The garage is ripping him off.

[oldoakknives]

Nothing wrong with having the alignment done, it’s how much he’s been charged. Something is also wrong if the disks have only lasted 18000 miles, they should last somewhere between 30000 and 80000.

Mine were checked today as part of a service at 36000. The car tells me the pads need doing in approx 9000 miles but discs are good for a couple of years.

The garage is ripping him off.

Dealerships aren’t renowned for low pricing. If you give permission for anything it’s wise to ask the cost.

[craig1912]

Dealerships aren’t renowned for low pricing. If you give permission for anything it’s wise to ask the cost.

I don’t disagree. My service yesterday I was asked if any extra work was required what amount in £’s should they contact me before doing it. The choice was 0, less than £250, more than £250. I chose zero.

I also agree that alignment can be done anytime and just changing the tyres doesn’t change the alignment.

It will be interesting to see how the dealer can justify £280 though. Even half of that is top end of what it should be.

[Hood]

Better to correct the alignment to prevent uneven wear before fitting new tyres if the previous ones were worn unevenly. The alignment isn’t normally altered by tyre condition.

They would probably replace brakes if they thought they would wear out in the near future before the next service. Therefore saving the owner more downtime.

You sure?
Surely you would fit the tyres then align them as fitting the tyres could change the alignment.

If they do insist on alignment being justified I'll be asking for the print out of before and after.

[oldoakknives]

You sure?
Surely you would fit the tyres then align them as fitting the tyres could change the alignment.

If they do insist on alignment being justified I'll be asking for the print out of before and after.

Why would fitting tyres change the alignment?

[Hood]

Why would fitting tyres change the alignment?

No idea though it did say on the Mercedes forum that you would fit tyres first . I'd have thought if you were messing about with wheels and tyres it would make sense to have it done afterwards.
I'm also of the way of thinking that they would be thinking we will get £280 pocketed whilst we can.
Do you think that charge is reasonable ?.

[oldoakknives]

No idea though it did say on the Mercedes forum that you would fit tyres first . I'd have thought if you were messing about with wheels and tyres it would make sense to have it done afterwards.
I'm also of the way of thinking that they would be thinking we will get £280 pocketed whilst we can.
Do you think that charge is reasonable ?.

Taking the wheels off and changing the tyres should have no effect on steering angles. They should remain good or bad as they were.

I have no idea of pricing to be honest, it's a few years since I was involved in that game, but as I said nothing is cheap at dealerships.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Why would fitting tyres change the alignment?

Having done thousands of wheel alignments in my time i always insist that tyres are replaced first if they are badly worn. Ive been asked to carry out wheel alignment on worn tyres many times and it normally results in the steering wheel being misaligned after the tyres are replaced. A square/flat footprint is more accurate and negates having to readjust with worn tyres especially if theyve gone off badly on the edges.

[oldoakknives]

Having done thousands of wheel alignments in my time i always insist that tyres are replaced first if they are badly worn. Ive been asked to carry out wheel alignment on worn tyres many times and it normally results in the steering wheel being misaligned after the tyres are replaced. A square/flat footprint is more accurate and negates having to readjust with worn tyres especially if theyve gone off badly on the edges.

How would the tyres being worn result in the steering wheel being misaligned? That would normally only happen if the track was adjusted one side only. Which can give the correct toe value but the rack centres and misaligns the wheel. I have carried out hundreds of wheel alignments in the past and never found that to be a problem, especially since using turning plates negates any binding effects of the tyres.

The footprint of the tyre should have no bearing at all on the alignment, the idea that a tyre worn on one edge would affect the camber/castor/toe in/toe out of a vehicle seems odd when suspension components are specifically designed to prevent such movement.

[Tom-P]

My suspicion is they won't say the rear discs were worn out - as has been said, no way in 18k - but rather that they had rust or pitting. That can happen if the brakes aren't used hard. I'm not saying they were rusty; I just suspect that might be their line ...

[Ikincooper]

In the OP’s shoes I’d be having a conversation with the garage about my wife being taken advantage of with their pricing due to her being naive and therefore looking for a discount on the work completed.

I’m assuming that the garage quoted your wife prices for the work “needed” and that she approved them to go ahead? On that basis I’d go in armed with reasonable prices for the work completed and try to get them down on their prices. Main dealership labour is notoriously expensive and I’d imagine rear discs and pads would have been charged at close to £500 on top of the £280 alignment. I’d be wanting at least a £250 discount and even then it’d be a painful experience.

Good luck OP


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[Griswold]

My local tyre company charges £10 for front wheel alignment if you’re buying tyres from them, which I do as they’re the cheapest around. They don’t do rear wheel alignment though.

Last time I used them they didn’t charge me anything as the alignment was spot on when they checked it and didn’t need adjusting.

[Foxy100]

A friend of mine was charged something like £300 by a Porsche dealer to have his wheel alignment done as part of a service. He hadn't requested it and they reduced it to £100. More questions arise though, I have used Micheldever Tyres, where the price last time was £45 and a few months before £30 (I'm now bored of them for more than the randomness of their prices) and a place in Southampton close to Ikea was £50 last time I was there. Both used some kind of laser alignment and both provided me with before and after printouts. Did the OP's wife receive these? It seems like alignment is something that will never be quite spot on so an easy £280 or £300 for a dealer to pop on the top of a service.

A few years ago I was advised the brake pads needed changing on a car because they were worn... down to 75%.

Thinking about it, if the OP's wife's dealer didn't provide the tracking printouts perhaps he should offer them the £50 going rate on receipt of the paperwork.

[adrianw]

Only pay for the work you asked them to do, for anything else they should have contacted you for authorisation, if you've already paid and collected the car contact whoever is in charge of the dealership and request a refund

[Hood]

Just to update this.
Mercedes agreed the wheel alignment shouldn't have been done before new tyres were fitted.
Have refunded half the wheel alignment fee(£140) and are going to redo the wheel alignment now that the new tyres are on.
Still too much at £140 but a small victory.

[xxnick1975]

On the pricey side but I think the days of £80 alignments are probably behind us. £150 plus MB tax, it's going to cost that I guess.

Always cheaper alternatives, but does the coffee taste as good?

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[xellos99]

On the pricey side but I think the days of £80 alignments are probably behind us. £150 plus MB tax, it's going to cost that I guess.

Always cheaper alternatives, but does the coffee taste as good?

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My local admittedly very small family run independent garage does it for about £20 but their equipment is not as high end as larger garages.
Seems to do the job perfectly fine though.

[Maysie]

Just posted on your other thread:

£280 for wheel alignment?
Good grief!

Had mine done on Tuesday for £72. (£60 plus VAT).
Volvo AWD XC60, so a bit of a pain for them (apparently) as they have to adjust all 4 wheels.

[adrianw]

Just posted on your other thread:

£280 for wheel alignment?
Good grief!

Had mine done on Tuesday for £72. (£60 plus VAT).
Volvo AWD XC60, so a bit of a pain for them (apparently) as they have to adjust all 4 wheels.

Unless there was something badly wrong with the car that makes no sense, you only adjust the corners that are out, you do check all four corners

[Maysie]

For what it’s worth I was looking at changing SWMBO’s car tyres earlier today and it seems that very surprisingly Halfords was cheaper than Blackcircles for Michelin Crossclimate 2 (195/55 R16)
As a subsequent question, what other dimensions could I fit on those rims? Thinking of something like 205/55 R16.

If you have a Costco nearby, they have a winter deal on at the moment on Michelin Cross Climate 2's.
They were the cheapest by quite a margin for mine, particularly if you need 4.
(235/60 R18 103V XL) SUV.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless there was something badly wrong with the car that makes no sense, you only adjust the corners that are out, you do check all four corners

All 4 were out.

[oldoakknives]

Just posted on your other thread:

£280 for wheel alignment?
Good grief!

Had mine done on Tuesday for £72. (£60 plus VAT).
Volvo AWD XC60, so a bit of a pain for them (apparently) as they have to adjust all 4 wheels.

Why would they need to adjust all 4 wheels?

[adrianw]

Why would they need to adjust all 4 wheels?

Something not right there, if they really did, only two things I can think of, either it had been done incorrectly previously and the steering wheel was off, or it had been in a shunt

You're looking at Caster, camber and toe across the axles and then the relationship between the two axles, the adjustments available depend on the car, it has become a nice earner but it's not clever, most race cars are set up using string and measurements.

[xxnick1975]

My local admittedly very small family run independent garage does it for about £20 but their equipment is not as high end as larger garages.
Seems to do the job perfectly fine though.

Billy bargain that. Min wage is £12 a hour!

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[Hood]

That’s the print out from the wheel alignment
Not sure if anyone knowledgeable has anything to say on initial and final reading

So the girl from service dept said this morning that she knew the wheel alignment shouldn’t have been done before new tyres were fitted but she couldn’t get hold of my wife and as she hadn’t unticked the box in her reply that meant she had authorised it and it then gets done.
Interestingly she said she was having this conversation as the guy had the car on the machine at 4.30
Reading on machine at final reading is 17.06
So roughly 30 mins and it’s been charged through at 2 hours work
Had to pay it to get car out but will pursue it through Mercedes UK

Also asked why no warning light came on for pads and discs on rear if they required immediate replacement
According to girl only the front pads have sensors
Will check that one out.

[blackal]

Yeah - they are sharp!

Cheaper to get your teeth aligned !!

That is the nature of BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc Main dealers. Love looking for work.

Not sure you will get far with Mercedes UK - they usually distance themselves from the Dealer Principle.

[prexelor]

Raise it with Mercedes directors/executive office. Normal customer service staff rarely care.

I’ve previously done this my Golf where the front wheel arches started to rust. It was only through the executive that matters started moving in the right direction.

[oldoakknives]

That’s the print out from the wheel alignment
Not sure if anyone knowledgeable has anything to say on initial and final reading

So the girl from service dept said this morning that she knew the wheel alignment shouldn’t have been done before new tyres were fitted but she couldn’t get hold of my wife and as she hadn’t unticked the box in her reply that meant she had authorised it and it then gets done.
Interestingly she said she was having this conversation as the guy had the car on the machine at 4.30
Reading on machine at final reading is 17.06
So roughly 30 mins and it’s been charged through at 2 hours work
Had to pay it to get car out but will pursue it through Mercedes UK

Also asked why no warning light came on for pads and discs on rear if they required immediate replacement
According to girl only the front pads have sensors
Will check that one out.

Most of what is on that readout will be ignored. The toe in/out on the front wheels will be the one adjusted. If anyone disagrees ask them how they will adjust the other values.

[adrianw]

Most of what is on that readout will be ignored. The toe in/out on the front wheels will be the one adjusted. If anyone disagrees ask them how they will adjust the other values.

Interestingly I think all three are adjustable on my Merc, I assume eccentric bolts or shims

[oldoakknives]

Interestingly I think all three are adjustable on my Merc, I assume eccentric bolts or shims

If you want to install aftermarket camber adjusting bolts.

[adrianw]

If you want to install aftermarket camber adjusting bolts.

My other toys have shins, I'm pretty sure the GT is adjustable as standard

[Jimmcb]

So the wife's lease Mercedes goes in for it's service today.
I thought I'd let her get on with it as I figure she's old enough to know the usual upselling stuff.
That was my first mistake.
Needless to say an expensive bill has emerged at the end of the day.
The only thing I did emphasise was not to let them fit new tyres as we would get them through Blackcircles.
So one of the extras on the service that has been done was wheel alignment at an eye watering £280.
I am going to go the dealership tomorrow to pick up the car and going to ask why they would do wheel alignment before 2 new front tyres are changed.
Anyone in the know have any justification that they could give me for doing that?
Also going to ask why they have replaced rear discs and pads on a car at 18K miles when the sensors didn't reflect this ie.no warning light.
TIA

Which Merc dealer is this.

I have a real hatred for Merc dealers in central belt - Eastern western motor group (Newbridge) are fly by nights and cheaters. Shady practices is their 100% game.

Jim

[Hood]

Which Merc dealer is this.

I have a real hatred for Merc dealers in central belt - Eastern western motor group (Newbridge) are fly by nights and cheaters. Shady practices is their 100% game.

Jim

Giffnock Mercedes mate
They’re in trouble the Mrs wants blood

Bottom line we have it in black and white that the results of wheel alignment was completed at 5.06
Girl said to me it was on ramp for wheel alignment at 4.30 when she phoned the Mrs
That’s 35 mins tops
Charged for 2 hours
That is fraud in anyone’s book
Will see how this goes down with Mercedes

[Jimmcb]

Giffnock Mercedes mate
They’re in trouble the Mrs wants blood

Bottom line we have it in black and white that the results of wheel alignment was completed at 5.06
Girl said to me it was on ramp for wheel alignment at 4.30 when she phoned the Mrs
That’s 35 mins tops
Charged for 2 hours
That is fraud in anyone’s book
Will see how this goes down with Mercedes

Thanks for that. Hope it gets sorted to your joint satisfaction.

I don’t know if they’re being led this way by Merc HQEU.

I doubt it as Halbeath (near Dunfermline) Merc are excellent - even though part of eastern western motor group. The demise of the once great set up started when Dougie Brown handed the business over to a gang of 4 or 5. Shisters! Complete failure for helping and supporting customers

Jim

[Dave+63]

The annual MOT is included in my latest MB service plan but I would still rather pay £40 to get it done at the garage I trust.

[Jimmcb]

The annual MOT is included in my latest MB service plan but I would still rather pay £40 to get it done at the garage I trust.

Agreed.

I was told my merc failed and was too dangerous to drive off their premises - EWMG Newbridge Merc dealer.

It had a 4mm (length) crack in the surface of an alloy - which had been pointed out to me by their other garage on annual servicing with no mention of safety or danger and I was allowed to drive away.
The mot failure was absolute and so they were required to keep my car from me - or so they thought.

They wouldn’t let me get on premises to fit a new wheel and tyre - “youre not insured to do such things sir!” or park it on street to do repair - “can’t park a car on a road with no mot sir!”, or for them to have wheel repaired by them - “we don’t do that sir!”

Bought the wheel for £960 from them - they supplied and fitted.

Also got a wiring loom recall done.

7 weeks it took!!

Jim

[Dave+63]

Agreed.

I was told my merc failed and was too dangerous to drive off their premises - EWMG Newbridge Merc dealer.

It had a 4mm (length) crack in the surface of an alloy - which had been pointed out to me by their other garage on annual servicing with no mention of safety or danger and I was allowed to drive away.
The mot failure was absolute and so they were required to keep my car from me - or so they thought.

They wouldn’t let me get on premises to fit a new wheel and tyre - “youre not insured to do such things sir!� or park it on street to do repair - “can’t park a car on a road with no mot sir!�, or for them to have wheel repaired by them - “we don’t do that sir!�

Bought the wheel for £960 from them - they supplied and fitted.

Also got a wiring loom recall done.

7 weeks it took!!

Jim

I was advised at the last service that a lower suspension link needed replacing at £650ish and an alloy wheel had a crack so £700. The previous year, the other lower link was replaced by the place I take my car to after the same quote. He charged me £250 but said it he wouldn’t have suggested it needed replacing. If my MOT guy says it needs doing, I’ll get it done but only if.

The wheel was replaced with a virtually brand new one from eBay for £140 and £25 to swap the tyre over. I will get the crack repaired and keep it as a spare.

[Jimmcb]

……..I will get the crack repaired and keep it as a spare.

Just what I’ve done Dave - wheel weld repaired for £80. Tyre to be fitted.

Jim

[adrianw]

Agreed.

I was told my merc failed and was too dangerous to drive off their premises - EWMG Newbridge Merc dealer.

It had a 4mm (length) crack in the surface of an alloy - which had been pointed out to me by their other garage on annual servicing with no mention of safety or danger and I was allowed to drive away.
The mot failure was absolute and so they were required to keep my car from me - or so they thought.

They wouldn’t let me get on premises to fit a new wheel and tyre - “youre not insured to do such things sir!” or park it on street to do repair - “can’t park a car on a road with no mot sir!”, or for them to have wheel repaired by them - “we don’t do that sir!”

Bought the wheel for £960 from them - they supplied and fitted.

Also got a wiring loom recall done.

7 weeks it took!!

Jim

I'm not convinced that they can legally keep your property, they are just a car dealership not some sort of official body.

[Jimmcb]

They can’t. You’re right.

They eventually kept it on the grounds of the symptoms it was displaying for recall being deemed a real danger for fire under the recall. They were going to release it to me for the minor crack to the alloy until they asked about the wiring recall symptoms.

So, in summary, it swung from the cracked alloy being deemed so dangerous and unsafe, despite that issue being picked up during service and the vehicle released to me with no cautions raised, to the car being released as I expressed concern towards extortion of them keeping my car till I paid them to fix it. It then moved to them keeping it for fear of an electrical fire as a consequence of the wiring recall fault.

I ‘benefitted’ from the use of 4 brand new Mercs over the 7 weeks.

You couldn’t make this up!!

Jim

[xxnick1975]

Nice one

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