Any one else heard rumours that the veterans are going to turn their backs on The PM?
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Thank You Griz I had not seen that vid
Much as I'm not our Prime Minister's most ardent admirer either, I just don't think it's the time or place.
I agree - not the time or the place.Originally Posted by monogroover
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Yes and its wrong,as in wrong place wrong time.
We should have turned our backs on the Torys who have decimated out Armed forces and most certainly on Johnny Mercer who was a snake.
Not the time or place for political gestures .
Disgraceful if they did, and I’d never sell poppies again if it happened.
Apologies if I've missed something -but what specifically has Starmer or Labour done in the last few months, that was worthy of such a gesture?
If it's nothing specific and more in protest of the continued decimation of British armed forces, then why now? That's been ongoing for at least 10 years, if not much longer.
It's more to do with the fact that he's opened the door to historic prosecutions of those who served in Northern Ireland. I'm not saying I agree with it, just reporting part of the background.
Exactly that. Let's hope recent trends for protest marches in London don't affect the remembrance events.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It was already going on under the conservatives as was the destuction of our armed forces capabilty,we could not have held of the Russians as Ukraine has.
The woke rainbow at Brize Norton,the quotas (ignoring white men who could do the job for divesitys sake),the stupid beards etc.etc. would not of helped.
Please do not stop we appreciate it,I can assure you we are not all unthinking.
Though I will always stand with them some of my fellow Soldiers arent exacty the brightest.
Even when they are presented with facts, say the wrong thing (ie.point out the facts about Johnny Mercer or Boris Johnson) and you are labelled a looney lefty.
It is a rememberance parade not a political rally.
It was stopped under the Troubles Legacy Act (far too late) under the last Conservative government thanks primarily to the pressure exerted by Johnny Mercer. Starmer has announced that he will repeal this act.
I had two distinct halves to my military career: 1987 to 2004 in the RAF flying Tornado GR1 and Nimrod MR2. When I started the RAF was 93,000 strong; it's now around 30,000. From 2004 I changed markedly to an Army that was shrinking fast to it's current size of around 78,000 depending on who you include (this figure does not include reservists). I left in 2017. Both parties have responsibility for the diminution of our armed services.
The state of politics in the UK (and USA) is dreadful, driven partly by the appalling, non-statesman like language used by some MPs. You've only got to look in the Bear Pit which is an echo chamber for some of this.
Sorry to hear that but nothing will stop me selling poppies.
I used to buy poppies religiously. I stopped a few years ago because I believe it helps perpetuate an absolute disgrace.
The welfare of veterans shouldn’t be the work of charities. It’s the responsibility of the state and I’ll happily pay more tax if that’s what it takes for it to take its responsibilities seriously.
The fact that a few idiots think it’s an occasion to express your anger at a political decision notwithstanding.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I agree but............
The RNLI.
Guide Dogs for the blind.
RSPCA.
Salvation Army.
Shelter.
and more, our governments donates money to overseas causes but don't look after our own so knowing this I still donate, I'm of the age where I knew my grand dad who was an artillery man in WW1 and met my friends grand parents who had served, I will always wear a poppy with pride (and sorrow for all the poor sods).
Please,please,please to not give any credit to mercer he is the worst self serving snake I have ever seen.
Some of us had dealings with him (he blocked us), he is a lier a cheat,has no military bearing whatsover.
He stated he agreed with the prosecutions until he saw the depth of feeling (I kept the tweets from him).
If I had served with him I would have done everything in my power to get posted away.
I do not see how anyone can be fooled by this man.
Thank you Tiger we dont have much on our side,we know its not perfect but its all we have.
I would put veterans on top of the ones you listed because the state is responsible for putting them in harm’s way in the first place.
But yes, the charity culture IMO (and others are at least as valid) is an easy cop out for «*delegating*» care to the good will of the public.
What I would suggest is a transition period (say, ten years) from where we are to a moment where charities offer the added luxuries but the bulk of the care comes from the state.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Those in power do not care,its lip service for the cameras.
So much that could be said
They closed the military hospitals they where great,the banter and constant good humoured abuse stopped you moping around.
Go for a tribunal to be judged by the same people who sent you out unprepared in the first place,who deny you where there even when you show evidence you were.
Tell you to claim for hearing loss (they gave us no hearing protection) they then say its age related only not there fault.
I know someone who went to a tribunal and they wouldnt accept he only had one leg without him producing a doctors note.
Some of this stuff you couldnt make up.
Everyone of my generation has at "least" 3 things wrong thats Hearing,knees and back.
I am very happy with the veteran's benefits available here in the U.S. As a Purple Heart recipient I qualify for additional benefits, but just the basic level is generous IMO.
What did they tell you the benefits and after care will be like when you join up- took the Queens shilling? What do they tell the new joiners today?
Ah just had a quickie look at web, Armed Forces Jobs and FAQ´s ...´´What happens if I GET INJURED?´´
ANSWER...Medical and psychological support for our people, if you get injured is world class.
Yet your posts suggest otherwise?
Last edited by Passenger; 8th November 2024 at 09:03.
Indeed Tom. The US is one system I had in mind when I posted. And it’s not just healthcare. And it’s how it should be.I am very happy with the veteran's benefits available here in the U.S. As a Purple Heart recipient I qualify for additional benefits, but just the basic level is generous IMO.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I agree with your sentiment, but the reality is that much of the welfare of veterans is the work of charities.
That's not a party political divide or even a problem unique to the UK (In fact, I suspect we're far from the worst in this respect), but it's the reality.
I tend to buy a poppy if I see them for sale, because both my grandfathers served in the World Wars (one in each), luckily they both survived them, but lots of their comrades didn't and, whatever the rights of it, the British Legion do a lot of good for veterans (as do Help For Heroes, although their name always grates on me, not everyone in the armed forces is a hero - a much devalued word these days, IMO).
These days, it's not really. Nobody HAS to join the armed forces and the reality is the vast majority of those who do aren't ever in harms way. That said, if someone IS injured, they should be properly provided for by the state, but that simply isn't the reality and depriving charities of funds (however limited) to make a point seems counterproductive to me.
M
Last edited by snowman; 8th November 2024 at 10:25.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
You dont think about things like that when you join at 16.
I doubt you will find one soldier who has gone sick,then been given paracetamol and told to soldier on.
The default position is we are malingering or should toughen up.
My mate had a broken leg they tried to make him carry on.
I broke my clavicle and was persuaded to carry on, it was far worse than I realised as I found out later.
Years later at a tribunal they said i wasnt there because the clerk hadnt written it in my notes,I had proof all denied (I had been attached to a foreign army).
I always remember the first posting to NI when they tried to make us buy insurance,write a will and the like.
Thats when we all though hang on arent they going to support us.
Anyway whats written on a government website isnt always what happens.
Today I am going to see walking with giants at Stowe Park.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/vis...-your-tomorrow
On the first point, while joining is a choice, it IS the state that puts you in harm's way. It is made worse when you don't have the right equipment (snatch LR in Afghanistan, anyone?). So the soldiers will do the work, but the state has to help them deal with the consequences (physical, material and psychological).
I completely understand where you're coming from and respect your take on this. As I said, it's not a clear cut situation and solving it will require a transition regardless, when the charities still continue to provide funding while the state develops budget and structures to take over.
I bought the poppy initially because it was part of remembrance, and I assumed the funds were going to provide extras to veterans. I then realised there are no extras, and the BL funds the basic care. At least, it's how they position themselves (see the harrowing current TV advert.
I find it intolerable. What makes it worse (i.e. reduces the will to change) is the collective story telling and the moral obligation journalists, presenters and anyone in the public eye really have to wear one from end of October to RD. The fact that politicians wear them seem to me a summit in crassitude and hypocrisy, especially when they are at the helm.
By all means let's honour the fallen and give to charities. But to charities that are an added layer of support while the state honours what should be its obligation.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I was simply giving facts. Your reply is the worst kind of Ad Hominem. I don't know Johnny Mercer and so cannot comment on his character but you offer no evidence for your attack on him. A video (that I've seen) from Have I Got New For You isn't evidence.
I dont know what Ad Hominem means.
You are giving him credit he does not deserve is what I was saying,dont take my word for it check yourself.
I also have first hand facts from people about him that would surprise you.
https://twitter.com/carolvorders/sta...85606095581403
Click HERE.
I have an IFA friend I worked with for many years, who came from an army family. As a result of that connection I found myself doing disabled trust work for several severely injured servicemen. From I have witnessed in the course of working for those clients, I’d say the answer is somewhere between “not always” and “not enough”.
Remembering doesn´t butter any parsnips, sadly. Seems an incredible hypocrisy washes down from on high, the top...the King and Co. lean heavily into the service narrative but HE still happily coins it in off the charities requiring the use of certain properties and the poor buggers doing the dirty work, being maimed- dying for King and Country, must still too often shift for themselves...seems a bonkers set up, utterly indefensible to me.
I dare not do that.
Eh?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Agreed - distasteful to say the least
Probably not the best time/ place to extrapolate.
Hopefully tomorrow goes off with appropriate decorum.
The quiet respect shown yesterday at Stowe was how it should be done.
I will be standing towards the back tomorrow avoiding the limelight.
I’ve cleaned my shoes,brushed my beret (we always use a boot brush) and sorted the rest of my stuff.
Perhaps I will wear my family members WW1 medals (right side),though it makes me feel a little conspicuous I should get past that for him.
FTFY.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
He has become one of the most disliked PMs in history. People did not vote for. His actions against the rioters in Southport show he is prepared to use the state against his people, I know they were foolish, but two tier applies. These are unprecedented times and how else can we protest against this authoritarian holier than thou communist?
I would welcome a repectful public show against him.
EDIT: This week they were boasting about pledging £3.5 million in support for veterans facing homelessness. Get on a boat from france and you get 3 squares, a 4 star hotel, dentistry, phone, money, healthcare and more. Sickening. The reason we're in this mess is people won't make a stand, vitrtue signalling it's not the right time. Difficult situations call for difficult actions.
Last edited by Bestofthebest; 9th November 2024 at 17:38.
It is interesting that merely flying a helicopter or two provides the royals with supreme deference from the veterans.
You ever fly one?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
What has that got to do with the price of fish?
Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
‘Merely flying a helicopter’ ?
And given that one of them flew a helicopter in action.
Yes, ‘merely’.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It really is a shame you can’t access the Pledge Allegiance thread in the BP.
Perhaps you need to reassess your media sources,
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
Notice you ignored my answer old chap.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
He said he would bring the animals to justice and quickly and thats just what he did, the actions against his ‘people’ was totally justifiable and personally id like to see the bastards stuck on a boat and transported to Rwanda. Thick dumb thugs nothing more and nothing less….you really need to stop watching youtube clips. 500 idiots on a Tommy Robinson video doesn't represent the country.
Nice try.
Like I said.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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