As someone who is approaching retirement and does not need a winter fuel payment I have to say this seems eminently sensible to limit this to those truly in need.
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As someone who is approaching retirement and does not need a winter fuel payment I have to say this seems eminently sensible to limit this to those truly in need.
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Worthy of discussion, but this is a thread for The Bear Pit. No politics in The George.
I did debate that but considered it hardly political or contentious enough to be worthy of the depths of the bear pit. If I am wrong please skip on by and I will work to delete
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My Mum has a private pension of £191 per month on top of her state pension. For that reason she is excluded from winter fuel payment.Originally Posted by chrisjones3
£13k per year income and she lives by herself. She is deemed too wealthy for the winter fuel payment.
Harsh indeed. I didn’t consider the threshold margin where it is cut. Just my own situation where receiving it would not be impactful - perhaps they set the threshold just too low but paying wealthy pensioners an allowance they don’t need when there are those who do seems counterproductive - or at best poorly directed.
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As above, the threshold needs revisiting, currently the revised ''winter fuel payment'' is unfair to many and a political own goal.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
Martin Lewis offered a reasonable criteria- on a state pension and house below a certain council tax band.
He admitted that the idea would take some fine tuning but on the face of it - makes sense.
(Would need council tax bands/house values to be reassessed also)
I think the whole council tax thing is wrong as it’s old figures and only takes the value into consideration, but get there good meaning. The so called poll tax is a far fairer way but you know what that did.
The other question that needs asking is what’s the cost to check if someone now is eligible for winter fuel payments rather than a blanket payment for all.
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Sounds like that would create a complex (and no doubt costly) process out of all proportion to the amounts involved. The original proposal was supposed to be a cost saving measure. Just stick it on the state pension and tax payers will pay tax on it which would recoup a reasonable amount. People always say how low the UK state pension is so two birds with one stone.
Imagine twins with identical earning capacity throughout their lives.
Twin 1 has been very financially responsible throughout his/her life, and has ended up owning a nice, and expensive house.
Twin 2 has spent most of his/her money on cocaine and hookers, and has ended up in a much cheaper house.
Martin Lewis's criteria would provide more support to Twin 2 than to Twin 1, which doesn't seem fair.
I'm not that far away from pensionable age, and I have no problem with the idea of benefits (whether it's Winter Fuel Payment, prescription charges, bus passes or whatever) being allocated according to NEED rather than to AGE - but there will always then be the issue of how you don't incentivise people to be fiscally irresponsible. If you know that you can spend all your money and the state will still take care of you, why would you save rather than spend?
And that is part of the problem. People who are well off not realising that many who will lose it did actually need it.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
PMSL 50k´s nearly nothing in terms of living costs, especially including mortgage costs in GB nowadays, why iirc a public servant, Gov. Minister at that, publicly threw in the towel early this year, he was on over twice as much...this needs to go downstairs.
Last edited by Passenger; 8th September 2024 at 08:48.
“50k is nothing in terms of living costs” but £13k is enough to mean you don’t need the fuel allowance. Yes. Of course.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Well as we can probably chat numbers in a non political way...recent data asserts on living costs in the UK almost 30k is the bare minimum for a singleton to maintain a basic standard of living, for a couple with 2 kids it´s close to 80k...For the record No 13 k IMHO isn´t enough, at best life probably comes with a degree of precariousness, sacrifice I wouldn´t want in retirement, or for my parents to have. Though wanting and getting´s sometimes 2 different things.
But then we are where we are as a nation, one where even some on 120k now struggle to pay their mortgages!...My attempt at, I considered, a somewhat jocular point was to highlight Blighty´s gotten bloody pricey these last few years, and for anyone now on only average wages it´s likely become a bloody struggle and that éven´50k if you´ve a family, isn´t enough.
(A different chat on a different day with a different member threw up the notion that in our nation you´re in some respects better off with nowt as they can´t take that from you in taxes, care fees, etc than having a little bit diligently saved over a lifetime of work, taxes and sacrifice...which is another wrinkle in the setup.)
Last edited by Passenger; 8th September 2024 at 09:25.
About the same as mum. I think she is also going to loose her single person council tax discount also.
Can’t see them pushing that through, surely? What’s the principle behind such a change?
Probably that most getting it wouldn't vote for them anyway.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/bmmagaz...-threat/%3famp
Rayner hasn't ruled it out. I think it might be labour don't like old people. Freeze them to death and starve them should take pressure off the NHS. Don't they have to pay for TV licence now? Bus passes will be next. Might as well go all in.
Well good luck getting a second term if they try that!
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ouseholds/2022
- The number of people living alone in the UK in 2022 was 8.3 million, this represents 13% of the household population and 30% of all households; the majority (53%) of these households were women living alone.
Free prescriptions over 60 will definately be on their target.Probably start by introducing a set price and every budget increase it.
That will get rid of more of us pensioners who then have to decide if life is really worth living.Because it really wont be something many could afford imo.
Heating,eating or buying the drugs required to get thru their already tough existence.
But as all MPs like to say,they like to look after "The Hard Working People"....Do they,fine way of doing that!!.
Last edited by P9CLY; 8th September 2024 at 13:38.
Whether the BP or Hyde Park Corner work as healthy discussion subforums or not, to post political content in the G&D seems pretty disrespectful to Eddie who has clearly expressed his wishes and set up the place in a thoughtful way to achieve them. A few years ago this thread would have been moved in no time, advantage really shouldn't be taken of him not having the inclination or energy to police the forum in the way that he used to.
Personally I think that the BP/HPC work pretty well as places to let off steam, and sensible discussions can be had if you simply put the noise makers on ignore.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Very similar situation to my 92 year old mother ....
Good age that, hopefully she's doing well, enjoying life.
She's doing brilliant thanks ... would put a 30 year old to shame
I was working at a 90 odd women's house the other day. Lived in a 1st floor flat. She had a stair lift but didn't use it. She would regularly walk down them to put things in the bin. Every time I said I'll take that she wouldn't have it and said no it's my exercise.
My heart was in my mouth every time though.
Outstanding, cherished I'm sure.She's doing brilliant thanks ... would put a 30 year old to shame
I have some considered views on this, but it is 100% a discussion for the BP.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Nothing to do with being sensible. Everything to do with finding money for the unions who've bought and paid for this government, and naturally want to see a handsome return on their investment from the Prime Minister in their pocket.
I don’t think there is any reason to feel guilty about drawing a pension. The name Ponzi associated to it nowadays is a result of people realising that there are suddenly more and more people drawing it (baby boomers + next gen), for longer due to increase in life expectancy and that requires a constant increase in the size of the workforce needed that our reduced families cannot supply.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Yeah I am starting to agree with you. However I wouldn’t have posted this in the bear pit as it goes feral and abusive from the get go. Kind of thought that as this topic wasn’t directly political - more societal - then it could be posted here for a reasonable conversation.
OP should never have posted this in the G&D because here we go again, people cannot help themselves, no restraint and only eager to pi$$ and moan.
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Last edited by chrisjones3; 10th September 2024 at 02:47.
My dad is ninty nine,and just a few pounds above what’s allowed.He will miss the winter fuel payment.
"Reasonable conversation" doesn't exist in Bearpit. I'm sure that Eddie never meant the Bearpit to be a sewage pit of swearing and name calling when he started it. This forum used to be a friendly place. I see society reflected here now...
This topic isn't so much political as societal imo
I think reasonable convo could exist in the BP, just there´s a lot of anger, belligerence, stress about nowadays for some, flashpoints and cussin´ before you know it.
Last edited by Passenger; 10th September 2024 at 10:51.
This from before when the Tories were in power.
Awkward.This from before when the Tories were in power.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
For those that keep posting political stuff in the G&D, it is disrespectful to Eddie, please stop it and think for a few seconds - be mindful that we have a few buffoons who will turn anything on it’s head to introduce politics into the thread - Tapacrap does not help in this respect.
The BP has always had its controversy but my view is ‘strong views’ cuts both ways. In recent years we have had a couple of bellends banned from there - takes some doing but hey-ho. For me if somebody is so dumb to get hoofed off then there is little hope for them!
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Why does it even exist?
Ensure pensioners (and others) have a liveable income and let them budget accordingly.
It existed because the government didn’t.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It’s pretty much - a subsidy for the energy companies.
“Charge what you want, and we’ll soften the blow for the less well-off- adding it to the taxes of everyone.”
My understanding is that the payment was made as a lump sum added to your pension so a winter bonus payment that could actually be spent wherever you wanted, is that correct?
Yes
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
The suppliers aren’t greatly profitable.
https://electricityinfo.org/news/octopus-41/
My father inlaw likes to make a point of telling everybody that he uses his heating allowance to go on holiday or go out for meals. That’s whilst he’s telling everybody about his final salary pension. I will look forward to seeing him next week :)
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Point out that at the current levels it is a crap holiday & at best a tasting menu for one with a good chef. I did likewise to my FIL, but after I’d played for a few hours with his new Turbo S. he at least agrees he doesn’t need it.
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Ha nice :) He enjoys gloating over the younger gens about everything he’s got in life and how fortunate his generation are and how hard they worked for it. He could almost be Mr P of this forum.
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How much extra do you get with pension credit?
Apparently before MPs cheered when they won the vote to remove the pensioners winter fuel allowance, the chancellor claimed over £4k heating allowance.
Nice to know she won’t be getting chilly over the winter.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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