One of the biggest, NTH, closing its doors. Such a shame.
I’d never seen them before. Probably good watches, but as said - it is a very competitive market for that genre of watch.
I do think for that sort of money - as a company, it can be worthwhile staying away from Rolex/Tudor designs and go a bit more exclusive/particular.
Didn't they have trouble with Tudor stopping them using snowflake hands?
Quite surprised to see them go.
Yep, they were one of the ‘bigger’ micro-brands afaik, Seriouswatches in the Netherlands has been a long time dealer. But the competition is huge and people are easily bored.Originally Posted by kace
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
You beat me to it, I saw that as well. It’s a shame, they’ve got a very good name in the microbrand community but it just shows how tough it must be just now.
Not a fan of Chris Vail at all. He was/is a bit of a belligerent knob on other forums.
Not enough variety of styles of watches. As far as I know, no field, no pilot, no 'gada' styles, just sub cases with different dials and bezel inserts.
After the Tudor debacle he only used sword hands, as if there was no other design available?
I had a couple of the divers over the years (Nacken) and thought they were decent watches. Quite thin too which was a bit differnt at the time, those had the snowflake hands.
Always a shame when a company fails, must be hard with some of the chinese brands at this price point.
I wasn't aware of the Tudor row. Interesting. Maybe that took the sheen off the business for the owner and he went sour on it? It does seem a narrow brand in terms of design.
I must admit I thought this was a Chinese brand. I assume these were made/assembled there?
Thought I recognised the name. I remember something similar about him on other forums, also something rings a bell the TGV YouTube channel but cannot remember
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I'm sure they are but there was no doubting the quality of their watches.
This is sad news.
Their price point was probably a bit high and that was their problem. Discounted via Watchgecko, they were awesome watches for the money.
I have an NTH Amphion. Yes, we know who they've replicated but the build quality and timekeeping (via the Miyota movement) was and always will be superb, no matter what anyone thinks.
Here is their classic grey model....
Last edited by j111dja; 4th September 2024 at 21:05.
Wow, surprising. I had one of those at one point and it was a nicely made thing (slim as well).
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
Never heard of them until now so had a goosey at their site. A nice looking watch IMHO.
There is a micro brand in Belfast, churning out non stop BS about heritage, engineering blah blah, their USP seeming to be a yellow seconds hand, again heritage re the famous H&W cranes. They retail around 1k iirc, struggle to imagine who is buying them at that price point. Perhaps very wealthy cruise ship passengers sucked in by the nonsense.
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This guy makes some very good points about why it's so tough for microbrands:
After discovering this guy earlier this year, I subscribe and watch all his videos, I think he's really good.
Most microbrands really turn me off...it's just a sea of chinese produced watches with Seiko quartz, Miyota or Selita movements all resembling either a Rolex or a military-type of watch....I think there is market saturation now especially amongst those making Rolex clones or trying to manufacture that military connection. The ones that stand out now are the microbrands like Kurono with that lovely Tokyo 2024 Reiwa...you can see the effort made with that dial.
Looking at the website - they fall into that "here's our homage to an actual brand" hole that many microbrands do.
Last edited by Alansmithee; 5th September 2024 at 11:57.
That fact that lots of people (LOTS of people) can make and sell a watch for <$1000 shows how mad the prices of the High End Brands are. If you're buying a simple three-hander, no complications, non-PM watch from one of the Big Swiss manufactures then what has it cost them to make, with their economies of scale? Granted they are objectively better in terms of materials, finishing, etc and Swiss costs aren't Chinese costs but really it's diminishing returns gone mad: every extra £100 buys you an additional 10% (random figures but you get the idea). And soon you're down to 10% of 10% of 10% of 10%. That final grand on a Rolex or Omega probably just buys you the box or booklet.
You're buying a story, a label, a status symbol -- and residuals. We all know it. And it's OK.
Buy what you like, pay what you can afford, enjoy wearing it.
Citing "Global economic conditions" as a reason for closure just doesn't fly. I've never been busier with business 5% up on this time last year and growth every year since I started. I think it's more to do with people wising up to the fact that $700 watches with a $25 movment is not a sustainable business model.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Indeed.
Since buying a Baltic Hermetique Tourer almost 6 months ago, it's never been off my wrist except at bed time, I haven't yet tried it on a different style strap which is a first for me, it's beautiful, very slim, has terrific lume, gorgeous sapphire crystal although it's only got a Miyota mvt inside the time keeping has been spot on, the recessed crown creates a lovely case symmetry...cost uhm 650 euro/ 550 quid, so not cheap, cheap but worth every penny imho.
Tried on a 40 mm Explorer last month in a shopping Mall in Philly, 7700 dollars/ 6000 gbp more or less...didn't like it, looked cheap, Mrs P thought the same.
People see the San Martin watches and the quality they get for silly prices, so you really have to stand out to ask the money NTH were asking these days.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Was about to make the exact same comparison. Gone are the days of your business model being to commission a chinese produced Rolex-alike with a cheap movement. In the future, I think we'll see only San Martin and those genuine microbrands that have their own original ideas.
I think that is the point.
You need to offer more than the same homage that everyone else is offering.
And although NTH did do some original designs, the main base of the range were Tudor and Rolex sub-alikes that every Chinese brand can offer for much less.
Plus, the original designs were (for me) not that inspiring.
Baltic are doing well, and Halios is another example, where they certainly seem to be offering their own distinct style, and are able to charge a (modest) premium for doing so. Certainly as much as NTH did.
Eddie's model is pretty unique, I certainly cannot think of anyone else that offers the quality over such a range at such value. And his limitations on order numbers ensure that there is not one year of stratospheric growth followed by stagnation, but year on year increase.
And with this new found mechanical watches uprise the market is flooded with micro-brands, people are, just like with clothing, easily bored and buy/sell multiple watches so the second-hand market is also flooded with watches.
Gone are the days a mechanical watch was an object to cherish and repair when broken....
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I think the micro brands make some really nice watches I’ve had amongst others Halios, Helson, Ravon, Timefactors,Olivier, ZRC, Crepas, doxa, aquadive, Aquastar, synchron and all big bang for money
My only concern with micro brands is long term ownership and the ability to get parts if broken which is why I only now have one a doxa professional aqualung edition
Last edited by Balance wheel; 8th September 2024 at 08:14.
When I heard the news I did a quick comparison of NTH prices and movements against yours:
PRS-82 with Sellita, £495
NTH with Miyota 9015, £650
PRS-55 with same, £385
I guess the constituency of people glad to pay the considerable extra for this or that reason became exhausted.
I've had a few nth watches, can't fault anything about them but I'd not pay £650 for one. They seem to have shot up in cost over the last few years.
That's probably because he went down the retail route and had to add the dealer's margin to the price. If you remember, Kobold tried this some years ago and doubled his prices overnight. Where are they now?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
He probably didn't have much choice after all his fanboys on Watchuseek had bought 1 or 2. He needed to expand to retail or die a sudden death.
Idle curiosity here: do Watchgecko have a legal obligation to support the watches they sell with some sort of warranty? If NTH no longer exist, does that mean they would have to do that themselves? Could they avoid that by selling their remaining watches as B-stock on, say, eBay?
Good point, so coupled to the assault from China of cheap sub-a-likes it must have become much harder to shift his watches at a price that worked.
Last edited by kace; 9th September 2024 at 14:20.
Ah, who doesn't remember the old 'You've been Kobolded' phrase
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Who remembers Montres Allison?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I think NTH had 6 or so US-based employees on the payroll, so I imagine that was a big factor behind the higher pricing vs other microbrands ...
Still going, apparently.
https://montresallison.com/
The 'About' page is interesting reading.
______
Jim.
Are their enough potential customers out there to buy a microbrand watch.
We as watch collectors will likely come across them,but your average watch buyer unless He really wants to browse the web may never even know "micro brands" are even a thing!.And so only look on the highstreet.
So this can be the downfall eventually for the micro guys with not enough customers,plus they arent what your average watch owner might consider main stream styling.
Yes a tough business & not one Id want to be in.
I met up up with the owner of Marnaut watches, a micro brand, on holiday and we talked about how tough it is to break into the market. He uses Sellita movements and has a unique dial design so represent good value for money I thought. He now has a small shop but We talked about releasing new models and how expensive it is and how difficult to attract a larger audience.
It seems it’s very easy to let over ambition be your downfall.
Link to their site here if you’re interested
https://www.marnaut.com/
I bought this as it was a different design to what I’ve seen from most- there’s still space for well thought through pieces but it is tough out there
Totally agree, the quality you get for the watches they are currently producing is impressive, add into the mix some original ideas for watches going forward with the same quality and they have a winning formula in my opinion.
Really like the look of Marnaut watches. I would like to think (hope) that those coming up with their own unique designs stand a better chance of surviving than the many Sub-a-like companies. Farer is another brand that seems to be doing well (is it even micro still?) and has their own easily recognizable look.I met up up with the owner of Marnaut watches, a micro brand, on holiday and we talked about how tough it is to break into the market. He uses Sellita movements and has a unique dial design so represent good value for money I thought. He now has a small shop but We talked about releasing new models and how expensive it is and how difficult to attract a larger audience.
It seems it’s very easy to let over ambition be your downfall.
Link to their site here if you’re interested
https://www.marnaut.com/
I bought this as it was a different design to what I’ve seen from most- there’s still space for well thought through pieces but it is tough out there
I often think I should try a San Martin, but the name (OK, it's not the very worst out there, I'll grant you, but it's down there with Pagani Design and Lobini Interlaken for fake Europeanism for me), the unrelenting Rolex-alikes and the fact that the odd original-ish designs are pretty unappealing (to me at least) dissuade me from taking the leap.
I'm pretty sure I'd buy it and put it up for a sale a couple of months later, having worn it for a few days when it arrived.
There have been plenty of original looking NH3* Chinese made watches out there that appeal more than another Rolex knock-off with a slightly different dial colour/handset/bezel combination.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Finding a ‘new look’ is harder than it seems.
Good shout on Farer, their compressor style watches look fantastic
Luxury Slump Leads Some Swiss Watchmakers to Seek State Aid
Girard-Perregaux and Ulysse Nardin among brands getting help
Work stoppages follow drop in demand for Swiss watch industry
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...srnd=undefined
Behind the wall
https://archive.ph/E4QZ2
The Swiss have made waiting a luxury experience. ~ Andrew McUtchen
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