I've been looking for a lemania 5100 based chronograph for a while, I love the history behind it, the acclaimed robustness of the movement and of course the second and minute chronograph hands being situated on the main dial making it superb legible in use. The only thing that concerns me though is the future availability of servicing and spares. I know the lemania movement contains a few plastic parts that would be difficult to replicate etc and may eventually become embrittled. What is the consensus on these parts becoming rare in the future making it difficult to keep it in good order over a lifetime and proving a barrier to passing it on as an heirloom piece?
Sweets (member here) is likely to be the man in the know
I have been put off buying further examples based on my experiences of getting parts some parts are all ready almost unobtainable.
The calendar parts can be hard to get hold of as an example.
It maybe possible to 3d print parts, Bry maybe able to offer his thoughts on that.
It is a shame as it’s almost the perfect chronograph movement
Thanks for the response and your honest opinion which are confirming my fears so far.
Happy to have my suspicions challenged though if anyone has more information.
Last edited by stevet1; 20th June 2024 at 15:57.
I've had a 5100 for a while and foolishly keep putting off getting it serviced, although it runs fine.
I last asked about servicing in 2019 and it was still possible, but none of the three watchmakers got back to me when I asked how they would replace parts if it needed it.
I hate to think it's on some kind of horologicial death row and will eventually end up binned.
Perhaps consider one of the Sinn or Damasko centre-minutes chronos based on Valjoux 7750 movements instead? Easier to service.
Hopefully in time 3D printing will be sufficiently high-resolution to make parts for the old movements...
The 5100 is relatively easy to service, its pillar construction is relatively easy to work with.
So in terms of normal use, and normal servicing, all you need to do is find someone who happily works on it.
Not everyone is happy to, Paul (walkerwerk) hates it and doesn't like to work on it. I have had the movement serviced perfectly well by a few different people, and most recently the Horological Underground here in Bristol has done one for me, with no issues.
It is also a movement that is currently and (as far as I know) for the foreseeable future at least, supported by 3 of its main suppliers, namely Omega, Tutima and of course Sinn.
So if you own one of them, a return to manufacture will guarantee the availability of spares.
There may be others, I know Eberhard in particular had a very close working relationship with Lemania (they produced at least 2 totally unique movements just for them).
And Fortis may do. And Schifferle and Schifferle (service agents for the Orfina Porsche Design). All may still support the movement, but I have no proof of the first two, and only an offer of work from S & S.
I am not aware of any failures due to embrittlement of the delrin parts. Yes, day and date wheels can be damaged by setting at the wrong time, and these are plastic (not delrin), but they are for many movements.
So, if you have one of the more minor-branded examples, you may struggle, as I am not aware of any independent re-manufacturer of parts for it. And the day-date discs are about as scarce as any of the parts (which you can often find for silly prices on Ebay)
Curiously, one of the most common failures is the winding mechanism, which is all metal, not plastic at all. It is one of the main reasons that regular servicing is needed, as the rotor is not spun on a proper bearing, and it needs to be lubricated to stop wear.
Whilst the V7750 alternative movement is newer and better supported by those that manufacture it (versions are made by Sinn, Damasko and Tutima) the V7750 does not have the same shock resistance as the original, so it is not quite as capable, or historied.
You would also be tied to whomever for all spares.
So if I were looking for one now, that is either a fixer upper or is to be kept for a long time, I would restrict myself to buying a Tutima, Sinn or Omega (1045 movement).
In fact I have, mostly, recently buying a black Sinn 142, to complement my EZM1 (and Tutima Commando II)
Wow, thank you for that informative and comprehensive reply, I really appreciate it. So it sounds like there is some hope these can be kept in working order as long as they receive regular servicing and date changes are done with care. It was a Fortis cosmonaut that had caught my eye initially, the size and the history behind it are top factors for me. I've seen some of the Sinn examples as well but they didn't grab me as much. Thanks again for your contribution to this post.
Regarding servicing, I wonder if anyone has got someone they can recommend for servicing these that they could add them here as a reference?
I sent a Fortis cosmonaut Chrono 5100 to the watch guy for full service.
No probs working on it, but needed a replacement crown/stem as it was slipping on hand-winding. They could not source and I had to just live with the defect.
Put me off any future Lem. 5100 pieces to be honest.
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I currently have:
1 sinn ezm1
2 Orfinas PD
1 lemania 5100
1 sinn 156
1 heuer carrera
6 in total and keep hunting for more. I wouldn’t let the fear of servicing put me off a nice watch
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The slipping crown has nothing to do with the movement, that's a Fortis part.Originally Posted by notenoughwrists
Thank you sweets for the great post about the lemania 5100 service situation! I was actually pondering the same things as the OP few months ago. My decision was the get the Tutima 760 (titanium version of the military chronograph). I have been delighted with it and hopefully it can be still serviced many years in future.
Just got back to this thread having been away for a couple of days.
No need for thanks, this place has provided me with lots of useful info, so it's only right that I chime in whenever there is something I can help with.
I think I will contact Fortis and ask them whether they still support the movement through their service network.
I will post here whatever I get in reply.
D
I have heard back from Fortis, very quickly (to their credit). They say
Thank you for your message and your interest in Fortis.
Unfortunately, we do not have any spare parts for Lemania movements. Therefore, if something should be wrong or a revision would have to be carried out, this would unfortunately no longer be possible.
As watches with Lemania movements are generally old models, we generally have almost no spare parts left (including parts other than the movement).
Please don’t hesitate to contact us if you have any other questions or concerns.
So there we go, the list of those able to support their older models isn't any longer than we might have thought.
D
I thought I would also contact Sinn in the same manner (and will do Tutima too).
Sinn have commented as follows
thank you for your E-Mail.
At the moment the situation is a bit tight with spare parts but we are trying to have spare parts for a long time to carry out the repairs.
So it would seem (reading between the lines) that Sinn are addressing the issue with re-manufacturing, but that stocks are a bit low at present.
I think you are right. Just read back:
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Last edited by notenoughwrists; 26th June 2024 at 09:53.
Thanks for those updates and for contacting the major watch manufacturers that used this movement, still following with interest.
No problem.
No reply from Tutima as yet.
Fortis replied to me a second time when I expressed my disappointment that they were not supporting watches that were a mere 21 yeas old. They commented
Thank you for your reply.
We completely understand your concern. Unfortunately, this is beyond our control as the movement manufacturer no longer exists and we can only guarantee spare parts up to 10 years after the end of production. This generally applies to all watch parts.
In addition, this watch was still produced by the previous company. We also have no influence on their production and models. They will not be re-produced if they are once sold out.
In 2018, the company was taken over by the current owner and all models from 2018 onwards were produced by us. We can therefore only guarantee spare parts for these watches.
Thank you for your understanding.
Omega have commented as follows
I am pleased to advise that the 1045 calibre is one of the models that we are still able to repair.
We will have all movement parts and would be able to replace larger parts like the dial, although we cannot guarantee that it would be an exact replacement.
The worst aspect of the Lemania 5100 is the perspex support plate used to mount the day/date parts, when it cracks it has to be replaced and replacements are getting v. scarce. Perspex has no place in a watch movement, but these things were built to a price and were never intended to last 40+ years. Own one at your peril, when looking to buy make 100% sure the day and date work correctly, even then I still think they're best avoided. Shame, because they went into some decent watches, and I can see the appeal, but this movement is trouble waiting to happen.
Anyone enjoy tightening a metal screw against 40 year old perspex?..........thought not, so why should I?
Im assuming that if you're doing that then it's because someone has paid you to?
Yes, I wouldn't do it for the sheer hell of it. I'm trying to point out how unappealing these jobs are, if it goes pear-shaped it's a bit like playing pass the parcel, whoever touched it last gets the grief. Restricted supply of parts is the single biggest problem that both owners and repairers face thesedays, if a replacement part is available it's far more tempting to get involved. It's what I call a 'Get Out Of Jail Card', you always have to consider the availability and potential cost of getting out of jail if a job goes belly-up. I wish it was different, I really do, but that's the reality and that's why my enthusiasm for working on watches and owning them is in decline thesedays.
Certainly makes lemania powered watches less appealing
Various manufacturers flirted with the use of plastic parts in the 70s, with varying levels of success. Unfortunately some of them don't age well. However, we have to ask whether it's reasonable to expect parts to still be available for items that are 40-50 years old, I wouldn't expect to buy a wing for a Mk 3 Cortina from my local Ford Dealer.
I do see your point but mechanical watches should have a longer lifespan than a car.
No point merely looking after for the next generation (TM) if the next generation cant fix it when its banjaxed
I can foresee hobbyists 3D printing the plastic components for this sort of niche area. Other components though may be a bit more of a challenge for a while yet.
Only the 5100 and the 5012 have the "perspex" layer, the rest of the movements do not.
As you can see from the responses that I got, a few of the larger companies that used the movement do still support it.
I’ve owned two 5100, Sinn EZM1 and a Bundeswehr chronograph. Sometimes regret moving the Sinn on, but perhaps don’t feel so bad if there could be future constraints servicing them, it’s a valuable watch. From memory this matter started cropping up in discussions quite a few years ago.
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This is my though (as posted below)
Bry here is the expert at 3D printing it would be interesting to see if possible
I have no concerns about continued ownership and servicing of my 1045 (5100) powered Speedmaster...so I won't be selling it
That’ looks lovely ^^^
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I guess still no answer from Tutima? That’s a pity as that is the manufacturer I was most interested in.
Yes and No. Tutima have answered, but only to refer me to the UK service agent, they clearly have a policy of doing so, rather than answering the query directly.
I am in contact with them ( it's TWR, they are also Sinn service agents and have serviced at least one of my watches before).
They told me the relevant person was away last week, so I am hoping for an answer in the coming week.
I would be extremely nervous of owning a high value watch like EZM1 , lovely as they are it was always stressful worrying about it going wrong and having to send if off for weeks or months, now add on top the prospect of it not being repairable, no thanks.
The reply Sweets got from Sinn is open to interpretation, I cannot see how it’s cost effective to remanufacture parts for a movement they will no longer be selling. The reply makes no mention of making new parts, my interpretation is they are trying to source parts that are still available so they have some stock but inevitably parts supply will dry up.
Last edited by David@; 13th July 2024 at 08:09.
I have finally heard back from Tutima, in the shape of TWR (also Sinn Service Agents).
Their reply reads
Apologies for the late reply, but I was away on holiday and then our head technician was away when I was back! So I’ve spoken with him and we are able to service the Lemania 5100 movements. We also have access to parts, should we need them.
I hope this helps.
So as I surmised to start, it would seem that Sinn, Tutima and Omega are ready to service and support the 5100 (or 1045 for Omega). I cannot think of any others that might, but there may be more.
To be honest, maybe I was jumping the gun by suggesting that Sinn might remanufacture, but Omega are so gung-ho about the availability of spares that perhaps Sinn are attempting to buy from them? Who knows?
As an aside, I have been wearing this
For the last week, including a 4-day walking the Cotswold Way with my 17-year-old lad (who is a very competent walker and coped with the 102 miles relatively easily).
It is a truly excellent watch, that does everything I want a watch to do.
The idea of being without it because I was worrying about future spares availability is a complete anathema to me.
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