Annoying one this.
I have sent my recently acquired Cosmonauate 809 to actual Breitling. It's the first time really that I have sent a watch off for servicing myself. This is a total keeper, it's from 1965, so I thought I would go the full monty and use Breitling themselves. Included in the service is a polishing / refurb. By the time I go elsewhere... and start requesting more... I figure that I would simply better just using Breitling.
A watch authentication is in the region of £300, but this also counts as an authentication really. If Breitling do work on your watch and give you servicing receipts etc... then it's as real as it gets.
So on my quote it says the following:
'All parts are issued on an exchange only basis and, as such, the originals will be retained by Breitling UK Ltd (the prices quoted have been calculated to reflect this).'
I have taken up the option of the service, however I have put the follwing:
"I am happy to accept the servicing of the watch and give you the permission to go ahead, but on the proviso that I get all replaced parts back with the watch."
Am I within my rights to do this, or will they reject the service? SURELY they are MY parts once removed. I am paying for the odd component replacement.
For the record, I haven't paid upfront. I initially turned down the service, but changed my mind as I feel that it's the best place to have it all done. So, I have spoken with Breitling about the quote, and because I initially declined, I don't pay for the service upfront. They service / repair it, then they take payment, then send me the watch. So I have in effect given them the go ahead at the second time of asking, haven't paid yet, but added that it is on the proviso that I really do want my parts back.
Thoughts?
I very much doubt they will give you the part's back unfortunately, as for going elsewhere Breitling don't supply part's to anyone anymore so you might be limited in who can service it, that being said as it's an old watch you might be lucky and someone may have whatever part's it may need but finding that person is another challenge.
Personally I'd just let Breitling service it, what would you do with the old part's anyway.
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I agree, they are yours, and won’t cost any more to send them to you.
Perhaps ask them why they can’t send them to you?
Also intrigued what you’ll do with them, if they do send them?
Up to you if you want to accept their terms of service (or not), but to suggest that those parts are yours - is fanciful.
The parts aren’t yours, they have supplied new parts on an exchange basis.
What you are asking is the same as part exchanging your old car for a new one and then expecting to keep the old car.
It would be nice if they gave you an option of paying the non exchange price, but it depends if the parts are visual, like dial and hands, those you wouldn’t want to change anyway, with mechanical service parts it doesn’t really matter if you get them back or not.
Cheers..
Jase
Of course he owns the original parts, he bought them as part of the watch. Whatever he decides to do with them is irrelevant and they should return them to him if he wants them. They could well be original to the watch and he wants to keep them as part of the original package.
No he doesn’t!Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli
See my previous post.
Not quite the same. To keep the analogy it’s more like wanting the original parts back if you have parts replaced as part of a car service. Mrs martynjc always insists on this with her car - to prove they actually replace the disk pads, wiper blades (for example).
Seems like brietking (sp) don’t want their parts getting into the wild? OP - do you get the option to save the original hands / dial with the service?
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 13th June 2024 at 19:24.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Or, it's akin to a car engine/gearbox exchange where you don't keep the old one.
Ultimately it depends on what basis the parts were replaced - exchange or not.
Except he's paying full price for the new car and giving them his old car for nothing. Unless Breitling are discounting the new parts?
That’s what they say they’re doing.
As there’s no price to allow for the customer retention of parts, that’s impossible to truly determine and, in truth, they really just want to keep control of parts availability.
We all know the game they’re playing but the OP agreed to the terms and therefore has no comeback.
'All parts are issued on an exchange only basis and, as such, the originals will be retained by Breitling UK Ltd (the prices quoted have been calculated to reflect this).'
I suppose if they give the above option at the start of the procedure then its take it or leave it, up to you but they have been up front.
Okay.. thanks for the info and opinion guys.
They have the gig anyway.. I will use them. I just don't think it's 'fanciful' to suggest that parts taken from MY watch are mine.
They were mine when I sent it in. I am paying for replacement parts but keeping the watch.
I believe I am entitled to see and own as evidence what has been replaced by seeing the old ones. I would with a car.
Cheers. :)
The issue here is that the old parts form part of your payment for the new parts (based on Tiger's reply, Breitling clearly state that "All parts are issued on an exchange only basis and, as such, the originals will be retained by Breitling UK Ltd (the prices quoted have been calculated to reflect this)", so the old parts are no longer yours to keep. You could ask Breitling for a revised quote based on the full cost of the replacement parts, and then ask for them to return the old parts to you (but it sounds like this is not an option).
They are not actually part of the payment, Breitling (like many others) do not want genuine parts in circulation on the S/H market.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Exactly, otherwise they'd offer two quotes - one for part-exchange, one for full payment and old parts returned to owner.
It's a fleecing policy.
I see what you mean, but car engines and gearboxes are rebuilt and reconditioned, that is generally not the case with watch movement parts. The reason watch service centres won't return parts is to prevent them being sold.
OP has two choices, take it or leave it, I also question what use a few old parts would be to him?
I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said there Paul, but the principle of selling an item on an exchange basis is a valid one, whatever the sellers reason for doing so.
I would be more concerned about what they are going to replace. I have seen a few vintage Navitimers that have been through the Breitling Service Centre that have had major parts replaced, including dials, handsets, case backs pushers etc. I would focus your energies on understanding what work they have planned. If it is only parts of the movement that will be replaced then I wouldn’t worry…..if it is the dial and handset etc. then I would be asking for the return of my watch. Good luck with this.
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Some good and interesting inputs here.... many thanks.
Interesting comments re Breitling not wanted their parts going out there into the general domain.
This cannot be the case as these are parts that they say are BROKEN and need replacing.
Crown, crown tube, crystal, both pushers.
Now, the question beckons: how would that possibly work? Not wanting their parts 'out there?' Surely they are useless anyway?
If they were to be reuseable, then they wouldn't need to come off my watch. They tell me that they are BROKEN (not just advisory). If that info is to be assumed as true (which I don't doubt), then they surely are an unsaleable commodity? Otherise: they would leave them on the watch. You cannot tell a person that a part is broken and needs to be replaced (not just advisory... NEEDS replacing), then keep the old ones to monopolise them. What use are they?
The service quote states:
Crystal broken, crown broken, crown tube broken, pusher broken.
Anyway, Breitling have been in touch today.. and have gone along with my request. Good news, they have spoken to somebody who has granted the returns.
Replaced parts WILL be sent to me.
The bad news is...
the timeline has now been extended to the 11th December. LMAO.
Ho ho ho!! Merry Christmas. :D
Last edited by gregory; 14th June 2024 at 18:49.
Perhaps thats because they now have got to source all those new parts rather than reuse your old ones ? :) :) :)
December, really?
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Well the ‘December’ email came five minutes after telling me that I can have my old parts back!
Could make an old cynic paranoid, that!
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Bit of a thread resurrection with some interesting information that I thought worth sharing.
I thought I would give Breitling UK a call to see how my rapid service was doing (due to be completed in December... six months with them).
I asked why it was estimated to take SOOOO long... the answer surprised me.
They have ONE watchmaker / servicing guy who can do such vintage pieces. ONE. At actual Breitling UK. ONE. As in: ONE.
I told them fair enough, I'll sit pretty and wait... and to make sure that they actually look after this guy!
ONE.
At actual Breitling.
ONE.
So when this guy goes on holiday / is sick / has time off... the vintage servicing grinds to a halt. At actual Breitling.
ONE.
And yet every second hand watch dealer will claim to have a guy in the back who is Breitling trained.
Funny old world isn’t it…
It's ironic, there's a shortage of watch repairers, even the brand service centres are struggling, but this situation has been created by them and they only have themselves to blame!
The restriction of parts supply has created a situation where watch repairing as a career isn`t very tempting, even for someone who's looking for a second career in later life and is less concerned with making lots of money. Cost of service and repairs continues to rise, lead times get longer, they've got owners over a barrel.
Difficult to justify owning mechanical watches thesedays.
It really is. When I was finally in a position to get what I long held to be a grail - a calatrava as it happens - it was quite sobering, and in the final analysis off putting, to realise that it could on current owners’ testimony be away at service for 6 months every 5 years.
My interest is almost solely confined to vintage watches thesedays, most in my collection were picked up for relatively modest sums in the past when watches were far cheaper.
Even after service and restoration a vintage watch is still an old watch, so expectations are lower in terms of COSC timekeeping etc, but perfectly acceptable performance can usually be achieved. Let's be brutally honest, even the expensive modern watches aren`t brilliant when compared to accurate time sources which are all around us, no matter how we try to dress it up the mechanical watch is an anachronism in this day and age, I like mechanical watches but I accept that they're hopelessly outdated in the modern world.
In a similar vein I like classic cars, my 54 year old MG with its simple 8 valve engine and twin SU carburettors (remember carburettors?) is something I enjoy with enthusiasm but I`m under no illusions regarding its capability and relevance in 2024, I enjoy it as a relatively cheap hobby because I maintain it myself. Same applies to the watches, but the cost of service/maintenance is making watch collecting an expensive hobby for most folks and that saddens me, I think we've seen the best of it over the past 20 years and I'm not optimistic for the future.
I blame the Swiss brands, with their arrogant attitude in recent years, 100%. Ironic to think that the Swiss watch industry was struggling and crying out to be saved during the 70s quartz revolution, perhaps they deserved to go to the wall.
My 1994 Breitling Colt went into Breitling UK for servicing back in 2015. Lots of mandatory items listed in the original estimate. I refused most of it.
The watch was away for around three months from memory. When I got it back it looked like brand new again. They did a fantastic job on it.
My only criticism was they changed the hands as part of the refused mandatory work anyway. So I now have a lovely creamy tritium dial with bloody luminova hands. Looks bloody awful!
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That’s what stopped me buying expensive mechanical watches and my peak service was a Lemania 137 in an Ebel E-type about 15 years ago, 550,- Euro’s. If you love mechanical and really want to wear them there’s lots of fun in the micro-brand world. Just wear the hell out of a Miyota 9015 and don’t worry.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Great points. To be fair I have had good mileage in general out of mechanical watches.
This piece is the oldest I have owned.. 1965.. hence the full Breitling service situation (to agree with your vintage comment). It's not broken, I know it has had some kind of servicing in the last few years, but I fell in love with it when it arrived and wanted to give it the whole Breitling experience. I got quoted a more basic service but it needed other things doing to have it at its best (even though this kind of movment is nowhere near COSC). At least the wait is justified / offset by its age. It's probably a good thing I did this now, if they only have one guy at Breitling here doing them.
I agree with all you said about the arrogance of them. In the quartz era, they needed rescuing by people like Swatch, and struggled to give them away. But now here they are, making people go on a list to snare something. I recal Tag Heuer (for somebody of my age... and say 21 at the time) being the first brand to pique the interest of people of my generation in the 1990's.
They deserve all they get in general.
I will be happy to have mine back from this full service, all as good as anyone can make it, and enjoy it. I will probably have lesser services moving on. No biggie.
Strictly speaking a mechanical watch needs the movement stripping, cleaning and re-oiling every 5-7 years if excessive wear to parts is to be minimised. I`m currently working on one I serviced exactly 10 years ago, the owner's broken the crown off the stem so it's back with me for fixing. Amplitude was well down so I advised having it serviced. Normally when I take the balance end jewels out IO stick them in a cleaning solution and don't bother inspecting them, but knowing the history of this watch and knowing it had been used regularly I was curious. When I took the end jewel out it was dry as a bone with a trace of sticky dry lubricant in the middle. I know it was oiled properly, treating the end cap jewel with fixodrop (epilame) and oiling with Moebius 9010 (synthetic oil) because I did it in 2014, this illustrates the point that lubrication doesn't last forever even when applied correctly! If a watch spends most of its time in a drawer not running the lubrication will last longer.
Apart from checking amplitude and visual inspection, the only sure way to know a watch needs servicing is to service it, inspecting the main friction points (balance end jewels, pallet stones, escape wheel) along the way. In an ideal world servicing costs would be much lower and the local repairer on your High Street (remember them?) would be happy to oblige regardless of the brand..........time travel back to the mid-70s would be helpful.
A timely thread for me. I have several watches that need servicing, one being a Breitling chrono. Running fine until recently but now stops after half a day or so. Are there any other trustworthy alternatives to Breitling for a full service?
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