Each piece has its unique charm, and it's impressive how they all receive such meticulous attention to detail. The hands are truly a standout feature. I can see why you're content with those three, plus a G-Shock for versatility!
Certainly, but at the macro scale it achieves the eye catching reflections of light off of the hands and batons and some of the dial effects. Someone might not realise just how precise the finishing is at the level that requires magnification, but will see the overall effect.Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
As with a lot of things in this niche, which are expensive goods, I’d rather have a product which is well/over-finished and engineered even if I don’t inspect every facet with a loupe.
Not seeing any evidence of issues with the bracelet that seems to bother some , ok micro adjustment might be welcome but not at the expense of the slim clasp .
Every part of this watch feels exceptional such a shame that value retention is a factor in ownership
Last edited by numberjack; 12th June 2024 at 20:48.
That really is a work of art. Bracelet looks superb to me.
Essential at this price point. I have £500 watches with excellent micro adjustment systems.
Also GS have been known to use pin and collar systems (and still do on certain models) which is about as cheap and agricultural as it gets.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 13th June 2024 at 06:51.
Apparently toolless micro adjusting clasp is coming do I’ll be waiting to see if that is any good.
That's on the Titanium watches or on ultra thin bracelets. It is functional not for cost saving reasons! Other watch companies using the same agricultural setup include Patek Philippe, Credor and A Lange & Soehne.
Precisely that. Also much safer than screws.
.
Definitely, hate screws, always checking them. Pins and collars fitted correctly are totally secure, I think they are only disliked by people either too cack handed to do it themselves or too tight to pay someone to do it for them.
Spring bars must keep you awake at night.
Not at all, I use good quality ones and make sure they are sat securely. Also I mainly wear nato's so one springbar letting go (something which has never happened to me, yet...) shouldn't be a problem.
It's pin and collar on the divers the titanium and the stainless steel models.
If you are worried about screws (I have been wearing a bracelet with screws for 13 years with no issue), then a little blob of loctite will ease your mind. Not that I have ever applied it.
I like collar and pin and have it on 4 watches.
Cheap as chips and can found on sub £100 watches.
Those spending £5k may be a bit miffed that the bracelet is not much better than one found on an £300 (non-Grand) Seiko.
IMO GS has to significantly improve its bracelets if it wants to be seen as a true quality watch.
Thanks, but no worries now as I don't any watches with bracelets anymore. Sure, Loctite does the job perfectly, but it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist with pins and collars.
I don't see screws as an indicator of quality sorry, I've had forty quid watches from Aliexpress with them, £4k watches with them, and everything in-between. Same with pins and collars. Both are different solutions to the same problem.
But for me with a background in aviation engineering, pins and collars provide a more elegant and secure solution that don't require any further security measures such as loctite. Basically the extra security needed with screws is from an engineering point of view an inbuilt weakness.
You like them, great. I don't for the reasons above.
A few years since I had one but do AP deem it essential on the Royal Oak ? Not when I owned them .
Also have you even looked at what GS are doing movement wise?
Admittedly bisas but I feel lots of uninformed opinion on this thread
from people who have never touched an E9 GS let alone a Kodo
Speaking as someone who prefers straps, I've tried two watches from Grand Seiko, admittedly at the higher price points and the bracelets have been a very good fit, very comfortable and felt 'solid'. So what am I missing that would make a better bracelet? A lot of talk about micro adjustability but if you don't have a wrist that changes size depending on the weather then does micro adjustability matter?
GS has perfectly functional bracelet, but compare with a Rolex bracelet and there is no contest.
And I personally dislike Rolex, but they do make a darn fine bracelet.
The bracelet on my £500 watch feels 'solid' and that offers an excellent micro adjustment system. And whose wrist does swell in hot weather?
We are watch enthusiasts and when spending second hand car type money it is reasonable to expect an overall quality package.
A non micro adjustment pin and collar bracelet is about as cheap and unsophisticated as it gets.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 14th June 2024 at 08:58.
If we are talking bracelets IWC trump Rolex …. With the push button micro adjust and the push button links.
in what way? Is it a tangible or intangible difference?
I only mentioned swelling wrists in summer as people on this forum have mentioned it in relation to micro adjustability on the fly. Otherwise why would you need it? If your wrist doesn't change and you have it perfectly adjusted at purchase, why the need for user micro adjustability?
Ask ourself why a Seiko 5 costs 50-times less than a GS.
I’ve said it before, but the bracelet on my GS quartz is as good as anything I own. It’s easy to get the perfect fit and the clasp is discrete. My wrists don’t swell.
GS along with Sinn are brands where some seem focus on the clasp to the exclusion of the whole package, I’ve never understood that.
D
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For me, it's simply the frustration that a GS could easily be my ideal 'one watch' if only it had a degree of micro adjust on the bracelet. I've tried the multi half link approach but, in summer especially, I'd like the option to add a mm or 2 to a bracelet and think that option ought to be available at GS' price point.
Seems to depend on the model. Divers have 4 micro adjusts plus the ratching dive extension.
The SBGY013G seems to have a different/better bracelet?
As others have said, there are plenty of high end brands that don’t have micro adjustment, and some are less adjustable than GS as they only have half links, and not combinations of 2/3 links that allow 1/3 link adjustment. It’s a simple design choice of a smooth seamless clasp, or micro adjustment and a less elegant clasp. It’s hard to have both, and neither choice is objectively better, though you may prefer micro adjustment if your wrist changes a lot. An optional official GS micro adjusting clasp that can be added to existing bracelets might be a good idea to end this debate, but personally I’d stick with the smooth style to avoid bulk, as they work fine for me as they are.
The best compromise I’ve seen is on the current model Vacheron Constantin Overseas, where tugging the bracelet around the clasp pulls out an extra couple of mm on each side, no tools required. It’s a brilliantly simple and effective solution. It will be interesting to see what GS come up with. But until then, I find it hard to take these comments about high end bracelets needing micro adjustment seriously, when my Omega AT doesn’t have it and only has half links, my older model Overseas doesn’t have it, and nor does my 14790ST RO where a 1.5 link was an eye wateringly expensive special order. And as for pins and collars, I believe the reason is that titanium has a habit of fusing, so screws don’t work well. It’s also the reason for a slight gap on the end links of titanium bracelets, but not steel ones.
PS
It’s beautifully slinky and the small links mean it’s very adjustable, though not on the fly. But the mirror polished links are a bold choice, it’s not obvious from those pictures but in person it’s about as subtle as wearing a tiara.
Last edited by Itsguy; 14th June 2024 at 15:16.
Not really an answer. The SLGH021 (Grand Seiko) is nearly £10k which is nearly £2k more than a Rolex Submariner Oystersteel (rrp) and you're saying that the Rolex has a far better bracelet. So it's not a cost factor.
I think we have the same GS quartz (SBGN003) and I concur. I think the bracelet is excellent, very comfortable and I never wish that it had any micro-adjust. I'd choose a smaller clasp over a micro adjust any time.
Just bought my first GS. Will post a review soon. In the meantime, a GRAND COMPLAINT ...
It's not the name of the brand, but of the 'line' within the brand. So, why on Earth does Seiko then write Grand Seiko immediately underneath it?
'GS'
makes no sense.
Why do they write the abbreviation of the name of the line, and then feel obliged to explain what it means? All the while, not prioritising or even giving the name of the BRAND alone.
Nah, not really.
OR
Oyster Rolex
?
Otherwise, it's a great watch.
The “GS” can be thought of as their graphic device, notwithstanding that its component elements can be read. Thus, it is more akin to the like of Vacheron’s Maltese Cross (or, if we must compare downwind, the coronet).
I really like it, and enjoy the complementarity between the applied and printed elements on the dials of my GS watches.
Is it not a brand within its own right? Is it not just a brand within a brand, like Lexus with Toyota or Omega within Swatch?
Yep, that too.
Nah. A good try, but no cigar. VC are the initials of the name of the company, GS are not.
As for "complementarity", you're on your own there.
The explanation was correct and the cigar is justified. GS is their logo, just as the crown is the Rolex logo, and has Rolex written underneath it. Ever seen an IWC with International Watch Company underneath the IWC logo? Same thing. That said, it looks good to just have Grand Seiko without the GS on the the dressy ‘first grand Seiko’ recreations.Nah. A good try, but no cigar. VC are the initials of the name of the company, GS are not.
As for "complementarity", you're on your own there.
Same thing? SAME THING? Two letters are the same thing as the image of a crown? Which alphabet did they teach you at school? Ideographic Chinese?
Second cigar saved.
Now, another criticism of Grand Seiko. What on Earth does it mean? Are there any other examples? Grand Omega? Nope. Er ... Grand Patek Philippe? No. Erm ... closer to home, Grand Citizen? No. None.
I suspect I know what SEIKO wanted it to mean, but their English wasn't good enough/they didn't do enough market research to get it right.
Other Japanese companies have made similar mistakes. Remember the DATSUN Cherry? A major cultural icon in April in Japan, but not a model of car many men in Europe or the US would admit to owning. (SEIKO have shown the same ignorance of some of their target markets with their pink-dialled watches. Would you buy one?)
I would have thought that was obvious. A Grand Seiko is a Seiko that costs more than a grand.
I think I’ve accidentally wandered into 1972. I’ll come back later.
So... for these guys it's holy trinity level, but when the Japanese do it, it's shoddy design and woeful market research
And another
Sometimes I wonder why I put some episodic posters on ignore; when that happens I click to read the post and check whether it was warranted or not.
I can safely confirm that it definitely is.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Hmm, good reason not to post after a few too many drinks.
1. why all the bold text?
2. "Grand" - what's wrong with that? What about the Jeep Cherokee and Jeep "Grand" Cherokee? "Grand" Designs? "Grand" Seiko fits perfectly if you ask me for a watch produced by Seiko that's on another level.
3. Pink is very popular and has been for some years. Pink dialled watch, yes I'd have one. Pink shirt, yes I do own one.
Simple, but good ... and so true.I would have thought that was obvious. A Grand Seiko is a Seiko that costs more than a grand.
Can you not see the illogic of that? If you're going to ignore, ignore. Don't go back and check.
Thank you for the perfect example.
The Jeep equivalent of Seiko Grand Seiko is ... Jeep Grand Jeep.
Yes you are right.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I get what you say to a degree and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Personally, I don't have an issue with the format.
And if I did, I wouldn't purchase anything that was going to bug me.
So, my question to you is why go ahead and buy one?
The reason why I ask, is by the very location of the main, so it appears to me, criticism you have of the watch, you will have to view it every single time that you look at it.
Maybe, it will be something that you will come to accept?
No it's not. There's no such thing as Seiko Grand Seiko. It's Seiko or Grand Seiko. Grand Seiko isn't a model, it's a brand or arguably, sub brand. You don't refer to a Lexus as a Toyota Lexus do you? The Jeep analogy would in fact be the Chrysler Jeep Chrysler which makes no sense what so ever but a Jeep Grand Cherokee does in the same way as a Grand Seiko White Birch makes sense.The Jeep equivalent of Seiko Grand Seiko is ... Jeep Grand Jeep.
Because almost every other element of the watch, an 'Elegance', is superb.
The 'GS' nonsense itself doesn't bother me. Having worked for a major Japanese company, I suspect it could be the result of Seiko's over-confidence in, and unwillingness to question, the senior managers of its design department. 'The Emperor has no clothes' syndrome is deep in Japanese culture.
Another reason may be linguistic: 'Grand' in front of Seiko may just 'work' in Japanese in the same way that 'King' did.
Two words I won't buy, however, are 'SPRING DRIVE'. What the ... ?
Last edited by Tinker; 9th September 2024 at 21:46.
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