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Thread: Bremont - what have they done?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    https://www.fratellowatches.com/brem...chmaking/#gref

    billionaire walks into a store and walks out with a few items. He ends up loving them so much that he offers to fund the business. This may sound like a plot in a feel-good movie, except it’s not a movie at all. It is, in fact, how the story went, according to high-profile American investor Bill Ackman.

    Ackman has purchased a substantial minority stake in British watchmaker Bremont after buying several watches at its brand boutique in Mayfair London. In an interview with the Financial Times, Ackman recalls sending the founders a handwritten note that read, “I admire your company, I love watches and I would love to learn more.” The investment reportedly comes from Ackman’s personal funds rather than his hedge fund company, Pershing Square Capital Management.

    In 2019, the board brought in Chris Reynolds from the company’s key shareholder’s management team to orchestrate the operations. He had the mandate to grow Bremont into one of the watch industry’s preeminent brands and engineering companies with the vision and the foundation laid by the Englishes.

    Reynolds tells Fratello, “Bremont has been backed by some wonderful investors for a number of years. They believe in what the brand is about. We tend to attract people who have a similar interest in investing and the same vision for the brand as we do — an interest and a passion towards British watchmaking.”

    Sticking to the vision

    Reynolds continues, “We’re blessed not to be working in this private-equity-type investment environment, which could be very derailing. We’re building a legacy. We’re looking to build a heritage, luxury brand here. And this takes time. But we’ve got patient backers, and we’re patient. We want to do things right and do things in a way that ensures our clients can have their products looked after for years and years to come. We’re setting up for the future.”

    The brand’s leaders are fully aware of the importance of longevity and continuity. “We’re now having original Bremont clients bringing their son or daughter for their graduation present, coming in to buy their Bremont watch. And for their entire life, Bremont has been around as a luxury watch brand, “says Reynolds. “So we’re not necessarily the new kid on the block anymore. I mean, in the world of luxury, unless you’re 200 years old, you’re pretty young in real-world terms. We’ve been around for most of the lives of most people that we’re selling to now.”

    Quite delusional to say the least based on latest offerings
    All these people involved taking vast amounts of money yet Bremont have been loss making since the beginning...

    Wish I knew the secret as if my businesses didn't make a profit I couldn't eat!!

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    let's have some perspective.

    online retailers almost never have stock of every watch that they're showing online.

    online retailers almost always have the products organised either showing the most recent products first or the best selling.

    Banks Lyon have 6 Bremont watches in their clearance section yet 110 in their regular watches section. Not really dumping the older design watches just yet then and might suggest that Banks Lyon still have a lot of confidence in the brand.
    We'll see.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    All these people involved taking vast amounts of money yet Bremont have been loss making since the beginning...

    Wish I knew the secret as if my businesses didn't make a profit I couldn't eat!!
    As someone said previously, it's not so much of an issue for a limited amount of time if you are investing in the company to grow instead if taking profit. They can keep focussing on growth as long as they have the cash by persuading investors to chase the eventual profit and keep investing. That profit has to happen sometime...if it doesn't the investors will pull the plug.

  4. #204
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    I was thinking the same. The two brothers appear to have gotten a lot out of it financially yet the company has never made any money. I find that bizarre.

    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    All these people involved taking vast amounts of money yet Bremont have been loss making since the beginning...

    Wish I knew the secret as if my businesses didn't make a profit I couldn't eat!!

  5. #205
    I find it bizarre that a brand releases some watches this year that folk don’t like, and very quickly the conversation shifts to the companies assets, the cost of refurbishing a leased building. I think this has added a few gallons of fuel to the bremont haters fire. Not sure I’ve seen this with other brands.

    I don’t like tag heur watches or Christopher ward, but never felt the need to explore how well liquidated they were or if they own their premises.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by tz-uk73 View Post
    I find it bizarre that a brand releases some watches this year that folk don’t like, and very quickly the conversation shifts to the companies assets, the cost of refurbishing a leased building. I think this has added a few gallons of fuel to the bremont haters fire. Not sure I’ve seen this with other brands.

    I don’t like tag heur watches or Christopher ward, but never felt the need to explore how well liquidated they were or if they own their premises.
    Most Bremont fans are much more dedicated owners than the average CW, Tag, Rolex owner because they have been sold the idea of watchmaking and manufacturing being brought back to the UK and they want to be a part of the journey. So when such a drastic U turn happens you can't blame them for wanting to know the details.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBanks View Post
    Most Bremont fans are much more dedicated owners than the average CW, Tag, Rolex owner because they have been sold the idea of watchmaking and manufacturing being brought back to the UK and they want to be a part of the journey. So when such a drastic U turn happens you can't blame them for wanting to know the details.
    True, I guess that’s a fair point on the differences. I own a bremont but it’s an early one so says ‘Swiss made’ on the dial. I honestly couldn’t care less where they were made. They could make them in Bulgaria for all I care. I buy what I love the look of or really want. Being made in Henley is not part of the appeal for me. I did do the factory tour courtesy of someone on here who arranged, and that was a great day out and made me like the watch a little bit more for it. As I’ve already said I quite like the aqua terra but I don’t love it. I only spend thousands on watches I love.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBanks View Post
    Most Bremont fans are much more dedicated owners than the average CW, Tag, Rolex owner because they have been sold the idea of watchmaking and manufacturing being brought back to the UK and they want to be a part of the journey. So when such a drastic U turn happens you can't blame them for wanting to know the details.
    The brothers and the brand were the classic underdog that many of us wanted to succeed. Along that journey we may not have all loved what they made, but for a small independent they had fantastic tie in's, be it with Martin Baker, Jaguar, Bletchley Park, Ronnie Wood, Bamford. They tried hard to impart a brand USP on their watches. They worked towards bringing production to the UK (often thanklessly in the forums). You knew if you met a Bremont owner you'd have something in common with them and most likely end up chatting with them over a drink.

    The sudden about change is very jarring for existing fans and customers who are left in the cold. But for the non-WIS I don't see why you would now buy a Bremont? The only thing I can think is they are hoping customers will presume that at a price point above Longines and CW it is their next step in the watch world. But at best that is all I see Bremont being - a stepping stone with no brand connection until customers can afford a Rolex/Omega/Cartier/[insert brand here] etc.

    The truth is we won't know for a few years. The June 2022 accounts show turnover of £22m, and at the end of that year the business was sold. We won't know until we see 2024 and 2025 accounts whether Bremont has increased revenues and turned a corner towards profitability thanks to the new (and frankly soulless) offerings.

  9. #209
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    The other thing that people are missing is that Bremont is a British company with a mainly British market and it is only recently that the company has made a consolidated effort to project into Asia and America so I do think that whilst we all have opinions and desires as to how the business will end up. You do need to wait, if it fails it fails at least they tried, which is more than can be said for many who are negative Nelly on here.
    RIAC

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    Wish I knew the secret as if my businesses didn't make a profit I couldn't eat!!
    you don't take a salary?

    as a business owner you must know that you don't need to make a net profit to have an income and potentially a large one at that.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkstar View Post
    The brothers and the brand were the classic underdog that many of us wanted to succeed. Along that journey we may not have all loved what they made, but for a small independent they had fantastic tie in's, be it with Martin Baker, Jaguar, Bletchley Park, Ronnie Wood, Bamford. They tried hard to impart a brand USP on their watches. They worked towards bringing production to the UK (often thanklessly in the forums). You knew if you met a Bremont owner you'd have something in common with them and most likely end up chatting with them over a drink.
    I agree. Pre-2020, buy a Swiss watch of equivalent value and you just get the watch. Buy a Bremont and you buy into an ideal of a British manufactured brand, a brand where you can visit the HQ for a tour if you want to and see how your watch is manufactured, attend events where like minded Bremont owners socialise with professional athletes/artists and talk about their endeavours or attend launch events where you can shake hands and chat with a pair of very approachable company owners with a passion for what they are doing. Post-2023, buy a Swiss watch of equivalent value and you just get the watch. Buy a Bremont and you just get the watch.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    All these people involved taking vast amounts of money yet Bremont have been loss making since the beginning...

    Seems to work well for Thames Water...

    And this latest range of watches appear to be the discharged effluent in this instance...

  13. #213
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    Here's another brand which won't be impressed with Bremont doing a homage to their logo: Héron Watches

    https://www.heronwatches.com/

    Polestar too might be less than impressed.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    Polestar too might be less than impressed.
    Polestar don't seem to be doing too well either. Seems like an unlucky choice of logo! (to be fair, Polestars logo is nothing like Bremonts new logo)

  15. #215
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    Bremonts a new logo however is remarkably similar to the logo used by Panzera. Very strange they would opt for something so similar to another watch brand.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    Here's another brand which won't be impressed with Bremont doing a homage to their logo: Héron Watches

    https://www.heronwatches.com/

    Polestar too might be less than impressed.
    They look really good. Like that Caribbean Blue colour.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    The other thing that people are missing is that Bremont is a British company with a mainly British market and it is only recently that the company has made a consolidated effort to project into Asia and America so I do think that whilst we all have opinions and desires as to how the business will end up. You do need to wait, if it fails it fails at least they tried, which is more than can be said for many who are negative Nelly on here.
    Written like a man with some skin in the game...Pretty hard to miss their Britishyness, it used to be one of their main USP's after all, the plucky maverick underdog trope, better to try and fail than never to have tried before etc, etc...hadn't realised they never made a profit though until someone mentioned it on the thread...isn't that in itself confirmation of failure, now the undeniable fact the Brothers English have had to/ chose to sell out to a venture cap and ceded their positions of authority just hammers the point home I'd have thought...plus of course the new fella disparaging features like the Trip tick case, change of direction, logo, etc...Though heck be of good cheer maybe the 'authentic' pre sell out Bremont's will rise in value.
    Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 08:45.

  18. #218
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    Very British to prefer the previous version of something before they mucked it up. The brand has reached its destiny.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Very British to prefer the previous version of something before they mucked it up. The brand has reached its destiny.
    And the glorious failure narrative that's been floated by monkey there, does have a strong British military, historic, cultural/poetic theme ''Forward, the light brigade''...fit's the former BREMONT, all that gimmicky putting literal historical bit's and bobs in watches...marvellous, destiny done.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    Very British to prefer the previous version of something before they mucked it up. The brand has reached its destiny.
    Yup, for a while it had a USP, now it hasn't - another brand in a field full of brands.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    hadn't realised they never made a profit though until someone mentioned it on the thread...isn't that in itself confirmation of failure, now the undeniable fact the Brothers English have had to/ chose to sell out to a venture cap and ceded their positions of authority just hammers the point home I'd have thought
    what is it about people on internet forums who think that a company not showing a profit is a sign of failure. In the financial world it's actually the company ideal as then there are no taxes to be paid. A quick example, Manchester United football club didn't make a profit for the last four financial years with a gross debt of £990 million! Well that's the end of them according to the internet.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    what is it about people on internet forums who think that a company not showing a profit is a sign of failure. In the financial world it's actually the company ideal as then there are no taxes to be paid. A quick example, Manchester United football club didn't make a profit for the last four financial years with a gross debt of £990 million! Well that's the end of them according to the internet.
    Quite so, silly me.

    I know nothing of the football business

  23. #223
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    Profit or no profit, good business model or not, the new models look shite and are way to expensive.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddelvirks View Post
    Profit or no profit, good business model or not, the new models look shite and are way to expensive.
    Inspired by someone posting on the thread mentioning a collaboration with Ronnie Wood!!! I looked it up, had to, oh dear, with apologies to all the Bremont afficianados , those in the know...

    https://www.bremont.com/pages/ronnie-wood

    ''Ronnie Wood has individually hand painted 47 limited edition watch dials whilst being on tour with the Rolling Stones, a nod to the year he was born, 1947. Each watch in the collection is a one-of-a-kind piece, showcasing original art from Ronnie himself, and housing a rather special Vaucher Manufacture Fleurier movement with moon phase complication. The exquisitely hand-finished mechanism has been housed in a beautifully designed and engineered 42mm, 18 carat white gold case using Bremont’s signature Trip-Tick three-piece format.''


    Weird...almost as if they were willing to throw a lot, anything desperately at the wall...where was the brand synergy, watches/ Co. big on flying machines and old rocker Ronnie Wood's really not very good daubings...and their signature Trip tick case, sorry pointless gimmick....
    Reckon the bros English done well finding a buyer tbh...you gotta know when to fold 'em...
    Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 09:45.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    Here's another brand which won't be impressed with Bremont doing a homage to their logo: Héron Watches

    https://www.heronwatches.com/

    Polestar too might be less than impressed.
    Those Heron watches look really nice. The caribbean blue version is a great colour too. Could do without the hipster captain on the caseback, but overall a better offering than the new Bremonts (though I don't dislike the blue dialed Terra Nova turning bezel power reserve, apart from the name).

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    ...maybe the 'authentic' pre sell out Bremont's will rise in value.
    I'm hoping for the opposite. Quite fancy a half price Fury.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkstar View Post
    I'm hoping for the opposite. Quite fancy a half price Fury.
    Not my bag as watches, reckon you could do alright though, with the romance, the dream gone...can the watches themselves justify, hold their prices, seems doubtful.
    Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 10:11.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    you don't take a salary?

    as a business owner you must know that you don't need to make a net profit to have an income and potentially a large one at that.
    I've always found it odd that the owner of a business can pay themselves ''whatever'' yet have employees on ''working tax credits'', has a whiff of the Michelle Mone about it...
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50kopek View Post
    Those Heron watches look really nice. The caribbean blue version is a great colour too. Could do without the hipster captain on the caseback, but overall a better offering than the new Bremonts (though I don't dislike the blue dialed Terra Nova turning bezel power reserve, apart from the name).
    Captain Birdseye remembrance piece?
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    what is it about people on internet forums who think that a company not showing a profit is a sign of failure. In the financial world it's actually the company ideal as then there are no taxes to be paid. A quick example, Manchester United football club didn't make a profit for the last four financial years with a gross debt of £990 million! Well that's the end of them according to the internet.
    But if you don't make a profit, your investors need to be convinced that the profit they are chasing will be realised at some stage otherwise they'll pull the plug. For me, bringing in a new CEO and appearing to change the brand direction completely against a backdrop of a cooling down of the luxury watch market isn't a great sign...but then again, I'm dreadful at investing so I'm probably wrong!

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Not my bag as watches, reckon you could do alright though, with the romance, the dream gone...can the watches themselves justify, hold their prices, seems doubtful.
    The old watches can at half price. I've never bought a Bremont at full RRP.

    To be fair very few watches hold their value. Will be interesting to see what happens on the used market.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkstar View Post
    The old watches can at half price. I've never bought a Bremont at full RRP.

    To be fair very few watches hold their value. Will be interesting to see what happens on the used market.
    I notice quite a few models on sale with substantial discounts at the moment at Goldsmiths.

  33. #233
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    It will be interesting to see how the general public, as opposed to watch fanatics, perceive the brand in future. This partly depends on the inertia of previous ideas about them, and any new marketing. For instance, will they assume it’s in some way better than Oris? The Oris Aquis Date Cal 400 has an in-house movement with a five day power reserve, and is £500 cheaper than the rather similar looking Supermarine. Will the Breitling style bracelet, the higher price, and vague memories of spitfires convince them that the brand is better or more luxurious? And if so, for how long?

  34. #234
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    Bremont - what have they done?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    This is not the same Bremont
    Am not sure if they will gain new fans but will definitely lose a lot of current ones.
    That’s my view and it makes me wonder why the new owners bought Bremont, if the intention is pretty much to start over.

    Full disclosure so you know where I’ am coming from: I’ am not a Bremont owner, have no skin in the game, found some of the cases a little too thick for my taste but was coming around to the idea of buying one and supporting the return of watchmaking to these shores. I do not see anything attractive in the new line-up. Though I am outside the 25-45 demographic Cerrato is targeting.


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

  35. #235
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    Perhaps Mr C has noticed that there are more clueless anglophiles like him in this world than Englishmen. Perhaps he doesn't give a toss what the English think, so long as he can sell his Hey Britisher Classiness Is Here bs abroad.

  36. #236
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    I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
    Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
    RIAC

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
    Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
    Hardly anyone has said they will definitely do badly. Their saturation marketing might well see them do well.
    And they have been saturating all of the (admittedly few) Social Media that I use.
    No-one's claiming marketing genius here.
    What most here are complaining about is the dumbing down of the spec, the withdrawal from commitments to bring watchmaking and assembly here to the UK, the generic nature of many of the new watches, etc etc.
    Everything to do with the offer and the company, rather than the marketing.

    And people are expressing personal taste when it comes to the re-bland.

    And it is not just people here, lots of others elsewhere are similarly bemused.

    Cerrato may be the man who credits himself with the genius launch of the Black Bay, but that always looked like a popular move. This doesn't.
    But you can be sure he will use his own marketing genius to make the most of this move.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
    Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
    TBH, I'd rather take style advice from someone in an XXL Belstaff & size 6 shoes than somebody who looks like this.



    I'd even go as far to say that I'd equally prefer to take the same advice from the pair of public school wideboys that are the English brothers.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  39. #239
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  40. #240
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    Better make sure your watch matches your lightsaber.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
    Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
    You made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant, unappealing place to be, in an earlier post tbh, why bother

    ''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
    Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 19:57.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    You made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant place to be in an earlier post tbh, why bother

    ''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
    Its not unpleasant but if it projects a image of superiority which others aspire to at all costs in some cases it can be unpleasant or toxic. The late great Bob Marley sums it up perfectly when he is asked what its like to be a rich man
    RIAC

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Its not unpleasant but if it projects a image of superiority which others aspire to at all costs in some cases it can be unpleasant or toxic. The late great Bob Marley sums it up perfectly when he is asked what its like to be a rich man
    Possibly a bit drafty too, absence of nik naks...

    Gotta say you're still not selling it.,'' unpleasant or toxic'', no ta, had me fill.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Not my bag as watches
    you're kidding me? really? I've had to take a moment there it was such a shock.

  45. #245
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    But if you don't make a profit, your investors need to be convinced that the profit they are chasing will be realised at some stage otherwise they'll pull the plug. For me, bringing in a new CEO and appearing to change the brand direction completely against a backdrop of a cooling down of the luxury watch market isn't a great sign...but then again, I'm dreadful at investing so I'm probably wrong!
    on the face of it I would agree. There again, there can be ulterior motives for investors that the general public might not know about. Then of course, we really don't have a clue what Bremonts future might be. The watches might sell like hot cakes to the average clueless high street watch buyer.

  46. #246
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    I've always found it odd that the owner of a business can pay themselves ''whatever'' yet have employees on ''working tax credits'', has a whiff of the Michelle Mone about it...
    There's nothing stopping employees on low salaries becoming the owner of a business. I did.

  47. #247
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    you're kidding me? really? I've had to take a moment there it was such a shock.
    Always on the fence me, gotta be more decisive.

  48. #248
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    There's nothing stopping employees on low salaries becoming the owner of a business. I did.
    Me too, but that's not what I was saying was it.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  49. #249
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Me too, but that's not what I was saying was it.
    no, what you were saying was that you found it odd that an owner of a business might be high salaried where as some or all of the staff might be low salaried, or at least that's what I thought you said? Of course if you've been low salaried and you now own your business I can't see why you find it odd? There's a lot more to salary levels than simply a 'them and us' scenario.

  50. #250
    I can only provide my perspective as a past owner of an EP120, P-51, Victory and still own a 1918, the 10th Anniversary collection, U2 LE, ALT1-Z, ALT1-C, Viper. I don't like where Bremont are going with the rebrand, but I also suspect the evolved movements and classic styles have been put on hiatus to be introduced later as a truly iconic or premium brand at a later date, which will provide a greater profit margin. To me the new direction is more generic and Hamilton oriented because it appeals to the backers' perception and reason for enticement within the American market, which will provide fruits in that direction, and opens up greater premium brand markets.........

    Good luck to Bremont.
    Last edited by Nicholas; 20th April 2024 at 01:03.

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