We'll see.Originally Posted by theancientmariner
As someone said previously, it's not so much of an issue for a limited amount of time if you are investing in the company to grow instead if taking profit. They can keep focussing on growth as long as they have the cash by persuading investors to chase the eventual profit and keep investing. That profit has to happen sometime...if it doesn't the investors will pull the plug.
I was thinking the same. The two brothers appear to have gotten a lot out of it financially yet the company has never made any money. I find that bizarre.
I find it bizarre that a brand releases some watches this year that folk don’t like, and very quickly the conversation shifts to the companies assets, the cost of refurbishing a leased building. I think this has added a few gallons of fuel to the bremont haters fire. Not sure I’ve seen this with other brands.
I don’t like tag heur watches or Christopher ward, but never felt the need to explore how well liquidated they were or if they own their premises.
Most Bremont fans are much more dedicated owners than the average CW, Tag, Rolex owner because they have been sold the idea of watchmaking and manufacturing being brought back to the UK and they want to be a part of the journey. So when such a drastic U turn happens you can't blame them for wanting to know the details.
True, I guess that’s a fair point on the differences. I own a bremont but it’s an early one so says ‘Swiss made’ on the dial. I honestly couldn’t care less where they were made. They could make them in Bulgaria for all I care. I buy what I love the look of or really want. Being made in Henley is not part of the appeal for me. I did do the factory tour courtesy of someone on here who arranged, and that was a great day out and made me like the watch a little bit more for it. As I’ve already said I quite like the aqua terra but I don’t love it. I only spend thousands on watches I love.
The brothers and the brand were the classic underdog that many of us wanted to succeed. Along that journey we may not have all loved what they made, but for a small independent they had fantastic tie in's, be it with Martin Baker, Jaguar, Bletchley Park, Ronnie Wood, Bamford. They tried hard to impart a brand USP on their watches. They worked towards bringing production to the UK (often thanklessly in the forums). You knew if you met a Bremont owner you'd have something in common with them and most likely end up chatting with them over a drink.
The sudden about change is very jarring for existing fans and customers who are left in the cold. But for the non-WIS I don't see why you would now buy a Bremont? The only thing I can think is they are hoping customers will presume that at a price point above Longines and CW it is their next step in the watch world. But at best that is all I see Bremont being - a stepping stone with no brand connection until customers can afford a Rolex/Omega/Cartier/[insert brand here] etc.
The truth is we won't know for a few years. The June 2022 accounts show turnover of £22m, and at the end of that year the business was sold. We won't know until we see 2024 and 2025 accounts whether Bremont has increased revenues and turned a corner towards profitability thanks to the new (and frankly soulless) offerings.
The other thing that people are missing is that Bremont is a British company with a mainly British market and it is only recently that the company has made a consolidated effort to project into Asia and America so I do think that whilst we all have opinions and desires as to how the business will end up. You do need to wait, if it fails it fails at least they tried, which is more than can be said for many who are negative Nelly on here.
you don't take a salary?
as a business owner you must know that you don't need to make a net profit to have an income and potentially a large one at that.
I agree. Pre-2020, buy a Swiss watch of equivalent value and you just get the watch. Buy a Bremont and you buy into an ideal of a British manufactured brand, a brand where you can visit the HQ for a tour if you want to and see how your watch is manufactured, attend events where like minded Bremont owners socialise with professional athletes/artists and talk about their endeavours or attend launch events where you can shake hands and chat with a pair of very approachable company owners with a passion for what they are doing. Post-2023, buy a Swiss watch of equivalent value and you just get the watch. Buy a Bremont and you just get the watch.
Seems to work well for Thames Water...
And this latest range of watches appear to be the discharged effluent in this instance...
Here's another brand which won't be impressed with Bremont doing a homage to their logo: Héron Watches
https://www.heronwatches.com/
Polestar too might be less than impressed.
Polestar don't seem to be doing too well either. Seems like an unlucky choice of logo! (to be fair, Polestars logo is nothing like Bremonts new logo)
Bremonts a new logo however is remarkably similar to the logo used by Panzera. Very strange they would opt for something so similar to another watch brand.
They look really good. Like that Caribbean Blue colour.
Written like a man with some skin in the game...Pretty hard to miss their Britishyness, it used to be one of their main USP's after all, the plucky maverick underdog trope, better to try and fail than never to have tried before etc, etc...hadn't realised they never made a profit though until someone mentioned it on the thread...isn't that in itself confirmation of failure, now the undeniable fact the Brothers English have had to/ chose to sell out to a venture cap and ceded their positions of authority just hammers the point home I'd have thought...plus of course the new fella disparaging features like the Trip tick case, change of direction, logo, etc...Though heck be of good cheer maybe the 'authentic' pre sell out Bremont's will rise in value.
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 08:45.
Very British to prefer the previous version of something before they mucked it up. The brand has reached its destiny.
And the glorious failure narrative that's been floated by monkey there, does have a strong British military, historic, cultural/poetic theme ''Forward, the light brigade''...fit's the former BREMONT, all that gimmicky putting literal historical bit's and bobs in watches...marvellous, destiny done.
Yup, for a while it had a USP, now it hasn't - another brand in a field full of brands.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
what is it about people on internet forums who think that a company not showing a profit is a sign of failure. In the financial world it's actually the company ideal as then there are no taxes to be paid. A quick example, Manchester United football club didn't make a profit for the last four financial years with a gross debt of £990 million! Well that's the end of them according to the internet.
Quite so, silly me.
I know nothing of the football business
Profit or no profit, good business model or not, the new models look shite and are way to expensive.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Inspired by someone posting on the thread mentioning a collaboration with Ronnie Wood!!! I looked it up, had to, oh dear, with apologies to all the Bremont afficianados , those in the know...
https://www.bremont.com/pages/ronnie-wood
''Ronnie Wood has individually hand painted 47 limited edition watch dials whilst being on tour with the Rolling Stones, a nod to the year he was born, 1947. Each watch in the collection is a one-of-a-kind piece, showcasing original art from Ronnie himself, and housing a rather special Vaucher Manufacture Fleurier movement with moon phase complication. The exquisitely hand-finished mechanism has been housed in a beautifully designed and engineered 42mm, 18 carat white gold case using Bremont’s signature Trip-Tick three-piece format.''
Weird...almost as if they were willing to throw a lot, anything desperately at the wall...where was the brand synergy, watches/ Co. big on flying machines and old rocker Ronnie Wood's really not very good daubings...and their signature Trip tick case, sorry pointless gimmick....
Reckon the bros English done well finding a buyer tbh...you gotta know when to fold 'em...
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 09:45.
Those Heron watches look really nice. The caribbean blue version is a great colour too. Could do without the hipster captain on the caseback, but overall a better offering than the new Bremonts (though I don't dislike the blue dialed Terra Nova turning bezel power reserve, apart from the name).
I'm hoping for the opposite. Quite fancy a half price Fury.
Not my bag as watches, reckon you could do alright though, with the romance, the dream gone...can the watches themselves justify, hold their prices, seems doubtful.
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 10:11.
I've always found it odd that the owner of a business can pay themselves ''whatever'' yet have employees on ''working tax credits'', has a whiff of the Michelle Mone about it...
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
Captain Birdseye remembrance piece?
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
But if you don't make a profit, your investors need to be convinced that the profit they are chasing will be realised at some stage otherwise they'll pull the plug. For me, bringing in a new CEO and appearing to change the brand direction completely against a backdrop of a cooling down of the luxury watch market isn't a great sign...but then again, I'm dreadful at investing so I'm probably wrong!
The old watches can at half price. I've never bought a Bremont at full RRP.
To be fair very few watches hold their value. Will be interesting to see what happens on the used market.
I notice quite a few models on sale with substantial discounts at the moment at Goldsmiths.
It will be interesting to see how the general public, as opposed to watch fanatics, perceive the brand in future. This partly depends on the inertia of previous ideas about them, and any new marketing. For instance, will they assume it’s in some way better than Oris? The Oris Aquis Date Cal 400 has an in-house movement with a five day power reserve, and is £500 cheaper than the rather similar looking Supermarine. Will the Breitling style bracelet, the higher price, and vague memories of spitfires convince them that the brand is better or more luxurious? And if so, for how long?
That’s my view and it makes me wonder why the new owners bought Bremont, if the intention is pretty much to start over.
Full disclosure so you know where I’ am coming from: I’ am not a Bremont owner, have no skin in the game, found some of the cases a little too thick for my taste but was coming around to the idea of buying one and supporting the return of watchmaking to these shores. I do not see anything attractive in the new line-up. Though I am outside the 25-45 demographic Cerrato is targeting.
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Perhaps Mr C has noticed that there are more clueless anglophiles like him in this world than Englishmen. Perhaps he doesn't give a toss what the English think, so long as he can sell his Hey Britisher Classiness Is Here bs abroad.
I can’t believe there’s so many marketing geniuses on here, I am
Amazed the Swiss watch world hasn’t been taken over by one of you !
Hardly anyone has said they will definitely do badly. Their saturation marketing might well see them do well.
And they have been saturating all of the (admittedly few) Social Media that I use.
No-one's claiming marketing genius here.
What most here are complaining about is the dumbing down of the spec, the withdrawal from commitments to bring watchmaking and assembly here to the UK, the generic nature of many of the new watches, etc etc.
Everything to do with the offer and the company, rather than the marketing.
And people are expressing personal taste when it comes to the re-bland.
And it is not just people here, lots of others elsewhere are similarly bemused.
Cerrato may be the man who credits himself with the genius launch of the Black Bay, but that always looked like a popular move. This doesn't.
But you can be sure he will use his own marketing genius to make the most of this move.
TBH, I'd rather take style advice from someone in an XXL Belstaff & size 6 shoes than somebody who looks like this.
I'd even go as far to say that I'd equally prefer to take the same advice from the pair of public school wideboys that are the English brothers.
Better make sure your watch matches your lightsaber.
You made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant, unappealing place to be, in an earlier post tbh, why bother
''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
Last edited by Passenger; 18th April 2024 at 19:57.
Its not unpleasant but if it projects a image of superiority which others aspire to at all costs in some cases it can be unpleasant or toxic. The late great Bob Marley sums it up perfectly when he is asked what its like to be a rich manYou made it sound a tawdry, unpleasant place to be in an earlier post tbh, why bother
''But to be honest, that’s the majority of the luxury watch world they’re all fur coat and no knickers. guys cutting about in big fancy watches and cars that are leased and houses they don’ not own. All false fame and fortune''
Possibly a bit drafty too, absence of nik naks...
Gotta say you're still not selling it.,'' unpleasant or toxic'', no ta, had me fill.
you're kidding me? really? I've had to take a moment there it was such a shock.
on the face of it I would agree. There again, there can be ulterior motives for investors that the general public might not know about. Then of course, we really don't have a clue what Bremonts future might be. The watches might sell like hot cakes to the average clueless high street watch buyer.
There's nothing stopping employees on low salaries becoming the owner of a business. I did.
Always on the fence me, gotta be more decisive.
Me too, but that's not what I was saying was it.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
no, what you were saying was that you found it odd that an owner of a business might be high salaried where as some or all of the staff might be low salaried, or at least that's what I thought you said? Of course if you've been low salaried and you now own your business I can't see why you find it odd? There's a lot more to salary levels than simply a 'them and us' scenario.
I can only provide my perspective as a past owner of an EP120, P-51, Victory and still own a 1918, the 10th Anniversary collection, U2 LE, ALT1-Z, ALT1-C, Viper. I don't like where Bremont are going with the rebrand, but I also suspect the evolved movements and classic styles have been put on hiatus to be introduced later as a truly iconic or premium brand at a later date, which will provide a greater profit margin. To me the new direction is more generic and Hamilton oriented because it appeals to the backers' perception and reason for enticement within the American market, which will provide fruits in that direction, and opens up greater premium brand markets.........
Good luck to Bremont.
Last edited by Nicholas; 20th April 2024 at 01:03.
Another interesting take on the whole thing from Watch & Wound: https://wornandwound.com/our-reactio...remont-rebrand
I find myself agreeing with quite a lot of Zach Weiss' opinion (writing the latter half of the piece). I've not been a particular fan of the design aesthetic of the 'old' Bremont but a few pieces looked ok, but the new designs are just a car crash.
If you go to Davide Cerrato's instagram, there's some short video clips of the new watches, which don't make them look any better than the pictures IMO. The negative comments make for some amusing reading though.
Last edited by andy100; 20th April 2024 at 10:49.
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