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Thread: Red traffic light jumpers.

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    If you'd read my post properly you'd have seen I was talking specifically about shared foot/cycle paths and traffic free public spaces. I don't get to meet any horses or cars in these places, though I do get to meet very many joggers, walkers and cyclists on them.







    Yesterday was just another typical day walking on one of our local shared foot/cycle paths. I was almost hit by this idiot who shot past me from behind extremely closely and at high speed to get between the two bollards. Of course, she gave no warning whatsoever. Then again she had no bell! Had she given warning Lynn and I would have stepped aside to let her pass.

    And your 'cheery good morning' would have been no help whatsoever at the speed she was going!




    There are, on this shared path, quite a number of blind bends like this one. I'm amazed at the number of cyclists who give no warning when approaching at high speed, particularly early morning/evening when they're obviously commuting to/from work. Many folk are out at those times walking their dogs and I've seen one dog hit by one of these clowns - I was walking it at the time!




    Am I right in assuming, based on your replies in this thread, you don't have a bell fitted to your bike?

    For the record. I'm a cyclist, I have a bell fitted to my bike and I use it.
    I'm not a fan of cycle paths. I frequently hear a cry from car drivers of 'get on the fcuking cycle path!' to which I might respond 'get on the 'fcuking M4!'. I'm biased because I was hit by another cyclist on the Bristol to Bath cycle path, the original Sustrans route, aka The Psycho Path & fractured my hip, shattered my collar bone, & also 2 ribs. Subsequently I've undergone a total hip replacement which cost me £15k. I've generally commuted via the A4 ever since....it feels much safer.

    Dogs are one of the main hazard on the Psycho Path. I've had several incidents....for example I was just about to reach a point on the path where it crossed a main road. On the approach I noticed a guy on a bike ahead come on to the path & then immediately release his Boxer dog from it's lead. The dog clocked me & made a beeline towards me head on. I attempted to swerve to avoid it but it dived into my front wheel. I went over the handlebars & the dog ran off. It returned looking sheepish a few minutes later with a clearly broken front leg.

    Shortly after this I came up behind another cyclist who's terrier type dog was running alongside him. The Boxer dog incident was quite fresh in my mind. I called from behind that I was coming through & that he ought to be careful with his dog because I had ran over one recently. To which the rider responded that he'd been doing this for years without incident. Barely were the words out of his mouth when his little dog noticed another dog & ran across his path. He ran his own dog over (it was ok) & he ended up on the deck looking up at me as I passed. His parting words were 'I don't have any problem with this!'

    Another occasion was an old lady with her Jack Russell on an extendable lead. The old lady was one side of the path & the dog was at the other sniffing at something in the undergrowth. I rode through the lead & came to a halt with the lead hooked up under my chin. The old woman exclaimed 'You STUPID dog!' The dog was unconcerned.

    Finally, I was riding home from work & came upon a group of three women who were taking up the full width of the cycle path. I rang my bell. As I was about to ride through the gap between them, one of the women opened her arms wide as if to stop me. I came to a halt. Then I realised that she had opened her arms wide to encourage her loose dog to come to her. The next second the dog charged straight past her & took my bike out from under me. As I laid on the deck she said 'you never rang your bell!' As she said this a couple of other cyclists rode up to us & one of them said 'Yes he did, I heard it quite clearly'.

    Regarding those ridiculous bollards & wooden posts that councils erect on cycling paths.....many a time I've nearly hit one.....& tragically a member of my cycling club did just that a year ago & is paralysed from the neck down as a result. Stick one in the middle of the M1 & see how long it lasts!

  2. #202
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    The bollards are an attempt to stop clowns like this….

    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    clowns like this….
    https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk...ckRecalls=true

    Little surprise there.

    Slightly surprising though is that a ‘Thumpstar Road Ripper’ has only got 2 wheels:

    https://thumpstar.co.uk/thumpstarRoadRipper.html

  4. #204
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Two wheels you say....

    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  5. #205
    All this hand wringing, angst and vitriol towards cyclists but no mention of the 40 people killed by motorists since this thread was started.
    That’s motonormativity for you.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    All this hand wringing, angst and vitriol towards cyclists but no mention of the 40 people killed by motorists since this thread was started.
    That’s motonormativity for you.
    Indeed but probably as a result of a cyclist jumping off the pavement through a red light and not ringing his bell distracting the driver causing the crash …

    About 1,800 deaths a year on the road. Average 3 pedestrians killed by cyclists… the numbers are so low it’s hard to quote an average.

    I think we can see the problem.

  7. #207
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    Red traffic light jumpers.

    It’s the type of posts like the 2 above that helps create the polarisation. False equivalences in a debate hardly benefit the cause of those who make them.
    Yes, cars will kill more people than cycling. And so will tobacco, booze and cancer.
    Yes, cycling is good for your health, especially if you have an office job as it gives you a proper workout. It would even be better (low impact) if our road network was maintained.
    Yes, cycling also contribute to lowering CO2 emissions and improving air quality in towns when used instead of a car for personal transport.
    And many more. Hardly anyone, here or in the wider world, dispute this.
    Lycra clad cyclists are mostly non commuters cycling for pleasure. Nothing wrong with that except when they interfere with people in the course of their normal activities, just like any other hobbyist. A group of runners/ ramblers walking on the road and blocking traffic would be a nuisance too. Likewise car drivers or motorcyclists using their machine for any sort of sport on the roads, or off roads.
    Once bicycle proponents here start to understand this, and act accordingly, the polarisation will disappear and we will come to a more constructive discussion about mutual respect on the road and in society in general.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  8. #208
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    I could take issue with all sorts of things that I encounter almost every journey whether driving, cycling, riding or walking. It could be a group of people ‘rambling’ causing a brief delay, the fisherman on the local canal blocking the tow path with equipment, the cyclists on a busy A road causing a slight delay as cars queue to get safely past. It could be the ‘insert car brand here’ owners club out for a club run on the local lanes around my village ‘pressing on’ and causing me to have to pull slightly off the road to accommodate the 15 or so drivers keen to not put their tyres/alloys anywhere near the edge of the road, tractors towing loads to who knows where for mile after mile through to horses being run out from the local livery yard and the local hunt exercising the dogs every morning. It could be anything really, and that’s excluding all the idiotic and dangerous driving I witness, but I guess like many I don’t notice the courteous or considerate driving nearly as much.

    Everything is a potential irritating little nail that deserves to be hit, but only if you let yourself be a hammer.

    I can’t think of any activity I do or journey I undertake where progress isn’t hindered at some point, I just factor it in or just get on with life and arrive when I arrive. Nothing is that important that I need to be there bang on time, and if it is I leave early. “If you’re 5 minutes early, you’re still late” is my mantra.
    Last edited by Tooks; 17th April 2024 at 09:55.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    It’s the type of posts like the 2 above that helps create the polarisation. False equivalences in a debate hardly benefit the cause of those who make them.
    Yes, cars will kill more people than cycling. And so will tobacco, booze and cancer.
    Yes, cycling is good for your health, especially if you have an office job as it gives you a proper workout. It would even be better (low impact) if our road network was maintained.
    Yes, cycling also contribute to lowering CO2 emissions and improving air quality in towns when used instead of a car for personal transport.
    And many more. Hardly anyone, here or in the wider world, dispute this.
    Lycra clad cyclists are mostly non commuters cycling for pleasure. Nothing wrong with that except when they interfere with people in the course of their normal activities, just like any other hobbyist. A group of runners/ ramblers walking on the road and blocking traffic would be a nuisance too. Likewise car drivers or motorcyclists using their machine for any sort of sport on the roads, or off roads.
    Once bicycle proponents here start to understand this, and act accordingly, the polarisation will disappear and we will come to a more constructive discussion about mutual respect on the road and in society in general.
    I can hardly believe this thread is still running.

    Anyway onto the above, you were doing so well until you reference what the cyclists are wearing......what relevance is that? Are any of the cyclists on here mentioning what a driver might be wearing? Cardigan, joggy bottoms, slippers...flip flops?

    The main problem though is that you also only discount motorists if they are taking part in sport.....but what about those just going for a drive/ride? Where exactly is this supposed hierarchy of allowed usage of the road? Where is it written down? What exactly is the guidance that leisure cyclists are supposed to follow over commuting cyclists. What exactly are we supposed to 'understand' from you post? None of this shows much 'mutual respect'.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    Anyway onto the above, you were doing so well until you reference what the cyclists are wearing......what relevance is that? Are any of the cyclists on here mentioning what a driver might be wearing? Cardigan, joggy bottoms, slippers...flip flops?
    Backless driving gloves? ;)

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by skmark View Post
    I can hardly believe this thread is still running.

    Anyway onto the above, you were doing so well until you reference what the cyclists are wearing......what relevance is that? Are any of the cyclists on here mentioning what a driver might be wearing? Cardigan, joggy bottoms, slippers...flip flops?

    The main problem though is that you also only discount motorists if they are taking part in sport.....but what about those just going for a drive/ride? Where exactly is this supposed hierarchy of allowed usage of the road? Where is it written down? What exactly is the guidance that leisure cyclists are supposed to follow over commuting cyclists. What exactly are we supposed to 'understand' from you post? None of this shows much 'mutual respect'.
    I mentioned Lycra because the majority are using it for sport/leisure as not many people have the space at work to keep a wardrobe with their business attire and unless you work in a cycle shop (and maybe even then) not many companies will consider lycra as acceptable workwear.
    The way people dress in cars is less relevant because I have never met a driver on the road dressed in F1 or rallye gear, and even if they were they can have their work clothes with them. So basically I don't give a hoot about what they wear but since I am making a distinction between leisure riding and work riding (commuting) Lycra is a good marker (unlike cycling shoes for example as they can carry a normal pair in their bag or even leave them at work)
    And you only read what you want to read, which is typical. I mentioned sport as examples, but anyone with a modicum of objectivity and more than 2 brain cells will understand that the distinction I make is between those who use the road for work and those who do it for their own pleasure. And there is nothing written about a hierarchy between road users but if someone interferes deliberately with my working life while doing something for their enjoyment it is likely to antagonise me. And that goes for people having a very noisy party during at 3 AM on a Wednesday night too, not just cyclists.
    It also works both ways: The greatest cycling offenders on the road are probably those delivering food or anything related to the gig economy really and I have a high degree of tolerance for them.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I mentioned Lycra because the majority are using it for sport/leisure as not many people have the space at work to keep a wardrobe with their business attire and unless you work in a cycle shop (and maybe even then) not many companies will consider lycra as acceptable workwear.
    The way people dress in cars is less relevant because I have never met a driver on the road dressed in F1 or rallye gear, and even if they were they can have their work clothes with them. So basically I don't give a hoot about what they wear but since I am making a distinction between leisure riding and work riding (commuting) Lycra is a good marker (unlike cycling shoes for example as they can carry a normal pair in their bag or even leave them at work)
    And you only read what you want to read, which is typical. I mentioned sport as examples, but anyone with a modicum of objectivity and more than 2 brain cells will understand that the distinction I make is between those who use the road for work and those who do it for their own pleasure. And there is nothing written about a hierarchy between road users but if someone interferes deliberately with my working life while doing something for their enjoyment it is likely to antagonise me. And that goes for people having a very noisy party during at 3 AM on a Wednesday night too, not just cyclists.
    It also works both ways: The greatest cycling offenders on the road are probably those delivering food or anything related to the gig economy really and I have a high degree of tolerance for them.
    You are mistaken, here in the London and the suburbs lots of commuters are riding into their offices wearing lycra, most (largish) offices nowadays have showers, changing and storage facilities, and as for the continual reference to lycra, it comes across to me as an attempted put-down.

    Also roads are available for everyone to use, no matter what that use is, you appear to want to be the arbiter.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I mentioned Lycra because the majority are using it for sport/leisure as not many people have the space at work to keep a wardrobe with their business attire and unless you work in a cycle shop (and maybe even then) not many companies will consider lycra as acceptable workwear.
    The way people dress in cars is less relevant because I have never met a driver on the road dressed in F1 or rallye gear, and even if they were they can have their work clothes with them. So basically I don't give a hoot about what they wear but since I am making a distinction between leisure riding and work riding (commuting) Lycra is a good marker (unlike cycling shoes for example as they can carry a normal pair in their bag or even leave them at work)
    And you only read what you want to read, which is typical. I mentioned sport as examples, but anyone with a modicum of objectivity and more than 2 brain cells will understand that the distinction I make is between those who use the road for work and those who do it for their own pleasure. And there is nothing written about a hierarchy between road users but if someone interferes deliberately with my working life while doing something for their enjoyment it is likely to antagonise me. And that goes for people having a very noisy party during at 3 AM on a Wednesday night too, not just cyclists.
    It also works both ways: The greatest cycling offenders on the road are probably those delivering food or anything related to the gig economy really and I have a high degree of tolerance for them.
    I dunno Marc, back when I used to work quite a few colleagues would leave shoes, a suit at work, some offices even had showers and they'd commute in wearing cycling togs, some wore lycra! and then freshen up, change at the office...I'll admit this was probably more noticeable latterly so late noughties till 2010 when I packed it in...can't say how it is nowadays.

    Ah just seen cbh's post.

  14. #214
    ramblers walking on the road and blocking traffic would be a nuisance too
    Another example of motonormitivity.

    They(Ramblers) have an inalienable right to be on the Kings highway the motorist is merely licensed which is a privilege revokable by the state at any time.
    Ramblers walking on the road or anyone else for that matter who wants to walk from A to B for whatever reason will find many motorists more than just a nuisance, they are themselves ‘traffic’ yet are putting their lives in danger just to walk from the village to the pub on a road without a pavement due to the way many motorists drive.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I mentioned Lycra because the majority are using it for sport/leisure as not many people have the space at work to keep a wardrobe with their business attire and unless you work in a cycle shop (and maybe even then) not many companies will consider lycra as acceptable workwear.
    The way people dress in cars is less relevant because I have never met a driver on the road dressed in F1 or rallye gear, and even if they were they can have their work clothes with them. So basically I don't give a hoot about what they wear but since I am making a distinction between leisure riding and work riding (commuting) Lycra is a good marker (unlike cycling shoes for example as they can carry a normal pair in their bag or even leave them at work)
    And you only read what you want to read, which is typical. I mentioned sport as examples, but anyone with a modicum of objectivity and more than 2 brain cells will understand that the distinction I make is between those who use the road for work and those who do it for their own pleasure. And there is nothing written about a hierarchy between road users but if someone interferes deliberately with my working life while doing something for their enjoyment it is likely to antagonise me. And that goes for people having a very noisy party during at 3 AM on a Wednesday night too, not just cyclists.
    It also works both ways: The greatest cycling offenders on the road are probably those delivering food or anything related to the gig economy really and I have a high degree of tolerance for them.
    Likely that many of those moaning about cyclists holding them up are drivers/riders with 'nice' cars/motorcycles out for a blast, bimble(?) or whatever and the vehicles are never used for commuting.

  16. #216
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    Red traffic light jumpers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Likely that many of those moaning about cyclists holding them up are drivers/riders with 'nice' cars/motorcycles out for a blast, bimble(?) or whatever and the vehicles are never used for commuting.
    I’d be curious to see your data on this. Those who have «*nice*» cars going for a spin beyond their drive are likely to be part of a wealthier community than the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Another example of motonormitivity.

    They(Ramblers) have an inalienable right to be on the Kings highway the motorist is merely licensed which is a privilege revokable by the state at any time.
    Ramblers walking on the road or anyone else for that matter who wants to walk from A to B for whatever reason will find many motorists more than just a nuisance, they are themselves ‘traffic’ yet are putting their lives in danger just to walk from the village to the pub on a road without a pavement due to the way many motorists drive.
    Another straw man. No one questions their right to be on the road. Just that blocking faster travelling people (cyclists or motorists alike) are likely to show some impatience if they don’t let them through when they have the opportunity to do so.
    Last edited by Saint-Just; 17th April 2024 at 12:15.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Another example of motonormitivity.

    They(Ramblers) have an inalienable right to be on the Kings highway the motorist is merely licensed which is a privilege revokable by the state at any time.
    Ramblers walking on the road or anyone else for that matter who wants to walk from A to B for whatever reason will find many motorists more than just a nuisance, they are themselves ‘traffic’ yet are putting their lives in danger just to walk from the village to the pub on a road without a pavement due to the way many motorists drive.
    Very true I was rambling with my dear old Dad from one pub to another, stood at the lights, Red for the motorists Green for pedestrians, when a bmw hooned through them, if I hadn't caught a glimpse of the bimmer coming and so grabbed the old man as he somewhat wobbled forwards to cross, well he'd have been a smear.

    Is suppose for reference, I must disclose it was in Skegness.
    Last edited by Passenger; 17th April 2024 at 12:44.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Another straw man.
    What the same as 98% of the replies here, cyclists weren't mentioned in the original post only motorist breaking red lights.

    You seem to be one of those banging on about lycra clad cyclists/ramblers holding up your oh so important drive up.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    What the same as 98% of the replies here, cyclists weren't mentioned in the original post only motorist breaking red lights.

    You seem to be one of those banging on about lycra clad cyclists/ramblers holding up your oh so important drive up.
    Well if you want to be specific the actual title was red traffic light jumpers?
    True it didn’t mention cyclists but what does that matter?
    Does no topic wander off?


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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    What the same as 98% of the replies here, cyclists weren't mentioned in the original post only motorist breaking red lights.

    You seem to be one of those banging on about lycra clad cyclists/ramblers holding up your oh so important drive up.
    You seem to mistake a straw man argument with a thread drift. The thread title never mentioned motorists by the way so the orignal mention of cyclists was entirely justified. I already made this point earlier.

    As for me, being semi retired means I rarely have an important drive, other than a rare appointment to the surgery. If I am banging on about anything, it's about the lack of civility we experience regularly, on the road and elsewhere; As I said before, it's the sheer lack of awareness of their exposure to the other road users, a typical small man syndrome

    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Every day while dog walking, I cross a dual carriageway using a pedestrian crossing which has traffic lights at least six times a day while dog walking, there is also a speed camera and red light camera but for some reason the council don’t use it, I think it caught too many motorists and they couldn’t cope, in my opinion speed/red light cameras should be privatized 

    There is not a day go by that when the lights have changed to red ready for me to cross that at least once and often more times a car, van, lorry, coach, bus etc drives through the red lights either heading north or south, sometimes drivers jam their brakes on at the last moment and end up straddled across the pedestrian crossing.

    I have on occasion took a photo of a lorry straddled across the crossing and received a great deal of shouted abuse, I heard words I had never heard before  other drivers look up to the sky as though they can’t see me while others give a sheepish smile.

    The drivers seem to be a total cross section of drivers, young, old, male and female.

    I notice when driving many times, I am waiting at a junction when the lights in front of me change from red to green but cars continue to cross in front of me so obviously, they have gone through there red light.

    I suppose when someone gets killed the authorities will say "lessons will be learnt" :(
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Well if you want to be specific the actual title was red traffic light jumpers?
    True it didn’t mention cyclists but what does that matter?
    Does no topic wander off?
    Mentions of every other type of vehicle but not cyclists, and of course the thread can wander, I wasn't the one bringing the strawman in the the thread.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You seem to mistake a straw man argument with a thread drift. The thread title never mentioned motorists by the way so the orignal mention of cyclists was entirely justified. I already made this point earlier.
    You're the one bringing ramblers into the conversation and then when pulled up about it, start saying that it's a strawman argument.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Lycra clad cyclists are mostly non commuters cycling for pleasure.
    The trouble with assumptions is they can lead you astray.

    I have 9 riders on my WhatsApp group that regularly ride together.

    6 of the 9 commute in Lycra.

    4 of those are shift workers (2 Police, one doctor and a paramedic)

    That means that Lycra clad cyclist who is holding you up at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon could be a doctor on the way to his night shift.

    Making judgements about people or groups based on how they look or what they wear is a dangerous position and can make a fool out of you.

    Can you publish your list of valid road uses please. My work journeys are often delayed by holiday traffic. Is my work more important than their visit to the seaside?

    If so please advise how I get them to pull over to allow me to pass.

  24. #224
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    There are also fishes that fly, but they hardly constitute the defining characteristic of the species
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I wonder who is annoying more people.
    Could be that little rascal whizzing along the pavement on his Raleigh Chopper, flicking the V's at the back of pedestrians, resolutely not giving a toss.
    Last edited by Passenger; 17th April 2024 at 15:45.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    There are also fishes that fly, but they hardly constitute the defining characteristic of the species
    Everything copacetic? I´ve barely a dog in this fight, leaving aside that BMW driver, but you do seem to be plausibly making some corn dollies and assumptions of your own over this ún amigo..

  27. #227
    As I said before, it's the sheer lack of awareness of their exposure to the other road users, a typical small man syndrome
    You are talking about people in cars who do twice the speed limit yes?
    Only I wasn’t sure, apologies if I got that wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    There are also fishes that fly, but they hardly constitute the defining characteristic of the species
    Yeah but where is the ranking list of valid reasons to be on the road. I need that to get past these annoying holiday makers.

  29. #229
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    You make your own list. If people are civil you do not need a list at all.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You make your own list. If people are civil you do not need a list at all.
    I don’t need a list I treat all equally. You should try it.

  31. #231
    Just for clarity I never mentioned cyclists because in the 24 years I have been crossing this road (A50) I have never seen a cyclist ride through the red lights, totally different when I drive through Leicester as apart from motorists jumping the red lights, electric scooters and bikes go through red lights, drive down one way streets the wrong way and on the wrong side of the roads but that is a different story :)

    Cyclists here ride on the pavement as do I when occasionally I go for a ride, you will see that there is a cycle lane marked but which is now barely visible and only about 18" wide but dangerous to use due to lots of lorries (and other vehicles) going by very close to the curb and with those large wing mirrors sticking out its pretty scary to be to close to the edge.

    This stretch of road is on a hill so at times cyclists do come down the pavement at speed and they have startled me and the dogs a few times if they are coming from the rear and I don't see or hear them when some come flying by at considerable speeds, others are considerate but I have never known any to sound a bell or other warning device, I often stand to one side while they pass if I see them coming and a few will say thanks.

    The cyclists are made up of commuters (some are friends) joy riders just out for a ride and quite a few mountain bike types covered in mud etc who look to have had fun on the trails off of the main road.

    And still the motorists are going through the red lights.




    Last edited by TheTigerUK; 17th April 2024 at 21:02.

  32. #232
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Hehehe, in my minds eye I see a stout older gent bestriding a Raleigh Chopper, gleefully whizzing along the pavement, unashamed of his stabilizers, shooting the V's behind the backs of pedestrians, the little rascal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Could be that little rascal whizzing along the pavement on his Raleigh Chopper, flicking the V's at the back of pedestrians, resolutely not giving a toss.
    I think you have a little bit of an obsession old chap.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I think you have a little bit of an obsession old chap.
    Nah just a silly sense of fun, humour.

  34. #234
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    More than 24 hours without slagging off a 'lycra clad cyclist' holding up a virtuous car driver trying to get to work....must be a record.

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