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Thread: Red traffic light jumpers.

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don't hate cyclists or have any prejudice, thats a drum the likes of Monty likes to bang.
    I have always given cyclists a wide berth, slowed down and do whats right when coming up on one but what i dislike is the way that large groups feel they don't need to pull over and yield to faster moving traffic. It’s a concept that horse riders, tractor drivers and even some car drivers subscribe to when they don't know where they’re going. The argument for this of course is to expect the driver(s) of the cars to simply sit back and take a chill pill. In my years of driving i have never once seen a cyclist pull to one side and let faster traffic through. There needs to be consideration yet it appears to only applicable to one side which is what i find rather infuriating about some cyclists.
    Really never, from personal experience I cycle, though never in groups, but always try to consider my road position as regards the motor vehicle coming up behind me, though I´ve cycled my whole life, we never had a car growing up so I-we biked everywhere, had it, safety, drilled into us...when I drive I´d say it´s considerably better than 50 percent of cyclists who´re fairly, to very mindful...now the folks on those electric scooters, well, taking their life in their hands...Last week there was a horse rider coming through the village, tbh I and it seemed other motor vehicle users happily gave them both all the time- space reasonably required, it´s a nice thing, a bonus to see them...mind you the manana attitude I believe takes some of the sting out of the busyness- rage of the modern world...in nearly 14 years here I can hand on heart say I´ve only witnessed 1 road rage incident, though that was a doozy in fairness...London and Philly were very different, even tootling about in Lincolnshire a few weeks back it´s a different ball game...mind you there´s also the shocking state of the roads, multitude of speed cameras and the high proportion of large cars, struck me as not conducive in themselves, to a relaxing drive.
    Last edited by Passenger; 14th April 2024 at 11:29.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don't hate cyclists or have any prejudice, thats a drum the likes of Monty likes to bang.
    I have always given cyclists a wide berth, slowed down and do whats right when coming up on one but what i dislike is the way that large groups feel they don't need to pull over and yield to faster moving traffic. It’s a concept that horse riders, tractor drivers and even some car drivers subscribe to when they don't know where they’re going. The argument for this of course is to expect the driver(s) of the cars to simply sit back and take a chill pill. In my years of driving i have never once seen a cyclist pull to one side and let faster traffic through. There needs to be consideration yet it appears to only applicable to one side which is what i find rather infuriating about some cyclists.
    Agree with that. Also I've lost count of the amount of times cyclists have weaved in and out of cars when they're at traffic lights only to go through the red light as well! And they often cycle up the inside of traffic with no thought for the distance from the cars they're undertaking or overtaking, and expect car drivers to always spot they're there. Seems the 'car width for safety' doesn't apply when they're the ones doing it.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Well worth a read, some data based studies on the Driver/ Cyclist vibes, yup it's official in some drivers the hate exists...cyclists it seems offend the moral order of the car based hierarchy, 'they get in the way'' their presence on the hallowed roads of the motor vehicle enthusiasts is transgressive causing some motorists to give them ''altruistic punishments''

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...en-overtaking/

    More here,

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...clists-so-much
    I think that the 'imagine that it is your son or daughter on that bike' thought invokes a powerful image....

    From the Guardian article that you quoted.....'When he became Greater Manchester’s walking and cycling commissioner in 2017, former Olympic champion Chris Boardman decided he was not going to allow himself to be photographed in Lycra any more. Nor would he wear a helmet if just pootling around town, even when filming segments on his bike for ITV4’s Tour de France coverage.

    “A lot of people in this country – not other countries – see cyclists as middle-aged men in Lycra. I want it to be my daughter going to the park, and just moving around without having to drive. That’s an image that I think we need to prioritise,” says Boardman, recently appointed by Boris Johnson to be England’s active travel commissioner.

    He also decided to stop using the word cyclist, preferring “person on a bike” because it is a reminder there is a human in the saddle. “Cycling is just lazy walking,” says Boardman. “That’s how we need to see it. That’s what it is in the Netherlands, where 60% of kids ride to school every day. They don’t do it because they’re cyclists. They don’t think of themselves as disciples. They just go to school and cycling is the easiest way to do it.”

    Boardman will not be drawn on whether he thinks the culture war on cyclists is leading to more aggression on the road, saying he deals in statistics, not anecdotes, and that there is “statistically proven 70% support for active travel, even if it takes some space away from driving”.

  4. #154
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    How far around the village do you cycle ook?...if typically only a couple of miles, say with a stop or 2, maybe pop in for the paper or a cheeky pint, then you'd not need lycra...just your cycle clips for trousers or tuck into socks.
    It's a small village so probably not even that. I don't need cycle clips as flared trousers have been out of fashion around here for some time now. Anyway they wouldn't fit in with my cowhorn handlebars and lack of mudguards.
    Last edited by oldoakknives; 15th April 2024 at 08:31.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don't hate cyclists or have any prejudice,
    I’m delighted to read that, apologies if I have mis understood your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    In my years of driving i have never once seen a cyclist pull to one side and let faster traffic through.
    I find that incredible to read, I have been out this morning and ridden 60 miles with a friend, we probably pulled over 5 or 6 times to let cars past. I know a lot of cyclists and everyone does that. It’s not much fun having a car up your chuff chomping at the bit to get past so everyone I know pulls over to let people pass. You must have just been very unlucky with the cyclists you encounter. Please don’t assume we are all like that.

    One thing I am curious about is why you chose to share your delayed anecdote here if you are a lover, it had no direct relevance to red light jumping and you must see how it could just fuel the anti cycling brigade, of which you are not a member ��
    Last edited by Montello; 14th April 2024 at 14:46.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I ride on the pavement
    Please don’t do that as it’s just like red light jumping, it’s illegal and makes some people irrationally angry towards other people on bikes.


    Yes, it is against the law to cycle on pavements in the UK. It states under the Highway Code Rule 64 that as a cyclist, you must not cycle on the pavement. This is also backed up by law, under the Highway Act 1835, and Roads (Scotland) Act 1984.
    Last edited by Montello; 14th April 2024 at 15:28.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Please don’t do that as it’s just like red light jumping, it’s illegal and makes some people irrationally angry towards other people on bikes.


    Yes, it is against the law to cycle on pavements in the UK. It states under the Highway Code Rule 64 that as a cyclist, you must not cycle on the pavement. This is also backed up by law, under the Highway Act 1835, and Roads (Scotland) Act 1984.

    Hardly the same as the lycra loons and commuter types tearing around busy city/town centres on the pavements terrifying old folks without a care for others.
    Last edited by oldoakknives; 15th April 2024 at 08:33.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    IDGAT
    Well done, I’m pretty sure that’s the same attitude the motorists jumping red lights have referenced by the OP.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I’m delighted to read that, apologies if I have mis understood your position.



    I find that incredible to read, I have been out this morning and ridden 60 miles with a friend, we probably pulled over 5 or 6 times to let cars past. I know a lot of cyclists and everyone does that. It’s not much fun having a car up your chuff chomping at the bit to get past so everyone I know pulls over to let people pass. You must have just been very unlucky with the cyclists you encounter. Please don’t assume we are all like that.

    One thing I am curious about is why you chose to share your delayed anecdote here if you are a lover, it had no direct relevance to red light jumping and you must see how it could just fuel the anti cycling brigade, of which you are not a member 👍
    Where did i say i was a lover? I said i didn't hate cyclists or have prejudice towards them…any dislike i do have for them is based up on experience nothing more.
    As for assuming that you were “all like that” please read the last paragraph of the final sentence again…you'll see the word “some” I tend to preempt peoples replies Wait theres a anti-cycling brigade…i never knew such membership existed, can you link me the website? Is there a subscription fee? Of course I’m joking, i hope it’s free!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Well done, I’m pretty sure that’s the same attitude the motorists jumping red lights have referenced by the OP.
    and cyclists….

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    and cyclists….
    Indeed, idiots aren’t restricted to one form of transportation. Although if I’m going to get T boned by a red light jumper I’d prefer they were on a bike rather than behind the wheel of a pick up truck.

    You never said why you chose to share your anecdote about the cyclist delaying you.
    Last edited by Montello; 14th April 2024 at 16:50.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Well done, I’m pretty sure that’s the same attitude the motorists jumping red lights have referenced by the OP.
    Quoting one tiny part of a post, without the rest for context is a crappy way to try and score a point. But no surprise to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Quoting one tiny part of a post, without the rest for context is a crappy way to try and score a point. But no surprise to be honest.
    Red light jumpers will give you plenty of context to excuse their actions but that will never make it correct.

    When people apply their own rules to ignore the law is when we start getting problems.

    When I ride through my village usually the only cars I see are parked. I can’t see any logic to choose to ride on the pavement.

    Did you know cycling on the pavement is illegal?
    Last edited by Montello; 14th April 2024 at 17:12.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Indeed, idiots aren’t restricted to one form of transportation. Although if I’m going to get T boned by a red light jumper I’d prefer they were on a bike rather than behind the wheel of a pick up truck.

    You never said why you chose to share your anecdote about the cyclist delaying you.
    I was adding to another poster..TFB i believe who said he got held up where theres people 2 abreast, not letting faster traffic pass…i added to that, sorry.

    Im not a betting man but id wager that a vast majority of red light vehicular jumpers do it because they are either going to fast, aren't concentrating or think they can beat them. I wouldn't want to say that for the vast majority of cyclist who jump the lights…id wager that a good majority of them do so because they think the rules don't apply to them? Of course I realise youll jump on that so im not saying that it’s right but im hoping you may see the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I was adding to another poster..TFB i believe who said he got held up where theres people 2 abreast, not letting faster traffic pass…i added to that, sorry.

    Im not a betting man but id wager that a vast majority of red light vehicular jumpers do it because they are either going to fast, aren't concentrating or think they can beat them. I wouldn't want to say that for the vast majority of cyclist who jump the lights…id wager that a good majority of them do so because they think the rules don't apply to them? Of course I realise youll jump on that so im not saying that it’s right but im hoping you may see the difference.
    You are probably correct on that. Although the research referenced above about it being safer is probably an additional factor.

    The whole red light jumping thing is a real thorn in the side for people who ride bikes. It’s seems rife in cities but less so in rural and less urban areas. London seems a crazy place. I wish people would not do it because it just gives people a stick to beat us with. Just like riding on the pavement.

    The consequences of a car driver jumping a red can be very serious for others. The implications for people on a bike jumping reds is most likely just putting themselves at risk.

    So based on that I’d say that the issue for society of motorists jumping reds is much more serious than bikes due to the damage and injuries that are likely to occur.

    However, neither is excusable.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Red light jumpers will give you plenty of context to excuse their actions but that will never make it correct.

    When people apply their own rules to ignore the law is when we start getting problems.

    When I ride through my village usually the only cars I see are parked. I can’t see any logic to choose to ride on the pavement.

    Did you know cycling on the pavement is illegal?
    Do you explain that to cyclists you see riding on the pavement? I'm guessing not.

    Like I said, I don't inconvenience pedestrians and I don't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    ..........
    The consequences of a car driver jumping a red can be very serious for others. The implications for people on a bike jumping reds is most likely just putting themselves at risk.

    So based on that I’d say that the issue for society of motorists jumping reds is much more serious than bikes due to the damage and injuries that are likely to occur.

    .........
    Did you know it's illegal to jump a red light on a bicycle? You don't seem to think it's serious.
    Last edited by oldoakknives; 14th April 2024 at 17:38.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Do you explain that to cyclists you see riding on the pavement? I'm guessing not.

    Like I said, I don't inconvenience pedestrians and I don't care.
    If someone I was riding with jumped a red or rode on the pavement then they would get a comment from me or one of the other riders in the group. We try to be respectful of the law as well as other road users. Two of the guys I ride with are Police Inspectors …

    I understand you are happy to break law when riding your bike and that you don’t give a toss either … well done 


    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Did you know it's illegal to jump a red light on a bicycle? You don't seem to think it's serious.
    Of course I do and as stated above that it’s not excusable. The point I’m making is the implications for others are more serious if a car jumps a red. Would you rather be T boned by a car or bicycle?
    Last edited by Montello; 14th April 2024 at 18:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    It's a small village so probably not even that. I ride on the pavement when it's clear and go onto the road to give way to any pedestrians.
    This is just too funny, you admit to breaking the law on a bike, yet there you are slagging other cyclists off because they dare to wear lycra and may ride completely legally on the road, you couldn't make this s**t up 😂😂

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    This is just too funny, you admit to breaking the law on a bike, yet there you are slagging other cyclists off because they dare to wear lycra and may ride completely legally on the road, you couldn't make this s**t up 
    I don't remember slagging anyone off for wearing lycra but I did observe that some people do. Hardly the same thing. And I'm not holding people up on main roads in large groups just to play on a bicycle. You're right, you couldn't make it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I don't remember slagging anyone off for wearing lycra but I did observe that some people do. Hardly the same thing. And I'm not holding people up on main roads in large groups just to play on a bicycle. You're right, you couldn't make it up.
    You just crack on breaking the law whilst us "lycra clad pedallers out for a jaunt about 50 yards apart" carry on enjoying ourselves, maybe even riding two a breast quite legally

  20. #170
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    I am not sure the driver who T-bones a red light-jumping cyclist will agree with your statement that only the cyclist is hurt. And that is assuming he doesn’t swerve into another vehicle when trying to avoid the cyclist.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I am not sure the driver who T-bones a red light-jumping cyclist will agree with your statement that only the cyclist is hurt. And that is assuming he doesn’t swerve into another vehicle when trying to avoid the cyclist.
    True, that’s a fair point, but you get the jist of my statement.

    As as I said above there is no excuse for anyone to jump a red light regardless of vehicle.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    You just crack on breaking the law whilst us "lycra clad pedallers out for a jaunt about 50 yards apart" carry on enjoying ourselves, maybe even riding two a breast quite legally
    I wonder who is annoying more people.
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    This is an eye opening thread. In over 30 years of driving I never realised that a hierarchy of road users exists based how someone perceives the importance of their journey relative to others.

    From 2007 to 2016, no pedestrians were killed by red light jumping cyclists, while 50 pedestrians were killed by red light jumping motorists.

    From 2012 to 2020, one of the 32 pedestrians killed by someone jumping a red light was hit by a cyclist. The other 31 were killed by a motorist.

    While red light jumping cyclist may be an irritation, it appears that the vast majority of harm is caused by motorists progressing through a red light. Yet, as we see here, column inches and comments threads seem to be dominated by those who use cyclists as a distraction to move attention away from the real problem.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    True, that’s a fair point, but you get the jist of my statement.
    Absolutely. But if it is true with something illegal (jumping a red light), why is risking exactly the same consequences just because you are entitled to do whatever you’re doing legally any better?

    Again, I am not saying cyclists should turn the other cheek. I actually don’t know how to solve the problem. What I think is that as a cyclist it’s not a hill I’ll choose to die on.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I wonder who is annoying more people.
    Probably the law breaker.

    FYI. https://www.councilclaims.co.uk/is-i...-the-pavement/

    However, you may just get away with it until you take your stabilisers off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    This is an eye opening thread. In over 30 years of driving I never realised that a hierarchy of road users exists based how someone perceives the importance of their journey relative to others.

    From 2007 to 2016, no pedestrians were killed by red light jumping cyclists, while 50 pedestrians were killed by red light jumping motorists.

    From 2012 to 2020, one of the 32 pedestrians killed by someone jumping a red light was hit by a cyclist. The other 31 were killed by a motorist.

    While red light jumping cyclist may be an irritation, it appears that the vast majority of harm is caused by motorists progressing through a red light. Yet, as we see here, column inches and comments threads seem to be dominated by those who use cyclists as a distraction to move attention away from the real problem.

    Thanks for presenting the data, no surprises there.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    This is an eye opening thread. In over 30 years of driving I never realised that a hierarchy of road users exists based how someone perceives the importance of their journey relative to others.

    From 2007 to 2016, no pedestrians were killed by red light jumping cyclists, while 50 pedestrians were killed by red light jumping motorists.

    From 2012 to 2020, one of the 32 pedestrians killed by someone jumping a red light was hit by a cyclist. The other 31 were killed by a motorist.

    While red light jumping cyclist may be an irritation, it appears that the vast majority of harm is caused by motorists progressing through a red light. Yet, as we see here, column inches and comments threads seem to be dominated by those who use cyclists as a distraction to move attention away from the real problem.
    You can quote any statistic to your advantage.

    Out of interest, from 2007 to 2016,or 2012 to 2020,how many of the red light jumping cyclists caused an accident due to a vehicle taking avoiding action? Also, from 2007 to 2016,or 2012 to 2020, how many red light jumping cyclists were killed or seriously injured by a driver who then had to endure the trauma of that incident?

    The real problem is any road user,whatever their mode of travel,acting in a thoughtless and/or dangerous way.
    Some drivers act like morons, some cyclists act like morons….and some pedestrians act like morons.

  28. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    This is an eye opening thread. In over 30 years of driving I never realised that a hierarchy of road users exists based how someone perceives the importance of their journey relative to others.

    From 2007 to 2016, no pedestrians were killed by red light jumping cyclists, while 50 pedestrians were killed by red light jumping motorists.

    From 2012 to 2020, one of the 32 pedestrians killed by someone jumping a red light was hit by a cyclist. The other 31 were killed by a motorist.

    While red light jumping cyclist may be an irritation, it appears that the vast majority of harm is caused by motorists progressing through a red light. Yet, as we see here, column inches and comments threads seem to be dominated by those who use cyclists as a distraction to move attention away from the real problem.
    Theres approx 42 million cars on our roads V 7 million bikes, whats the total number of journeys a year made by both? I mean who would have thought that a car weighing upwards of 2 tonnes and capable of speeds exceeding 100 miles an hour would be responsible for more fatalities of pedestrians? My mind is blown.
    Clearly we need to ignore the fact that a huge amount of cyclists ignore red lights…problem solved right there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Theres approx 42 million cars on our roads V 7 million bikes, whats the total number of journeys a year made by both? I mean who would have thought that a car weighing upwards of 2 tonnes and capable of speeds exceeding 100 miles an hour would be responsible for more fatalities of pedestrians? My mind is blown.
    Clearly we need to ignore the fact that a huge amount of cyclists ignore red lights…problem solved right there.
    So now you're making light of the deaths, lets hope someone close to you doesn't become a statistic.

    Only one person on this thread has suggested we should give cyclists a pass on breaking the law (ook), whether ignoring red lights or riding on the pavement, all road users should be held to the same standards.
    Last edited by cbh; 15th April 2024 at 01:07.

  30. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    So now you're making light of the deaths, lets hope someone close to you doesn't become a statistic.

    Only one person on this thread has suggested we should give cyclists a pass on breaking the law (ook), whether ignoring red lights or riding on the pavement, all road users should be held to the same standards.
    Yes, yes, thats exactly what i was doing…making light of deaths 🙄

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Theres approx 42 million cars on our roads V 7 million bikes, whats the total number of journeys a year made by both? I mean who would have thought that a car weighing upwards of 2 tonnes and capable of speeds exceeding 100 miles an hour would be responsible for more fatalities of pedestrians? My mind is blown.
    Clearly we need to ignore the fact that a huge amount of cyclists ignore red lights…problem solved right there.
    Yes, cars weigh upwards of 2 tonnes and are capable of speeds exceeding 100 mph. There’s no surprise that they’re involved in 99% of pedestrian deaths due to red light jumping.

    Yet, a thread about red light jumping becomes 99% about cyclists. Very strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    Yes, cars weigh upwards of 2 tonnes and are capable of speeds exceeding 100 mph. There’s no surprise that they’re involved in 99% of pedestrian deaths due to red light jumping.

    Yet, a thread about red light jumping becomes 99% about cyclists. Very strange.
    Not strange at all ... its because some people on this forum have an issue with cyclists ... these threads are not new and the same old debate goes through the mill and guess what the same old faces pop up again and again and guess what they don't hold any prejudice of hatred of people who ride bikes.

    Here are some highlights ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...Cyclists/page8

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    ... cyclist make up the largest proportion of the biggest bellends In the main made of up nearly 30 years of anecdotal experience
    ... even on topics which are nothing to do with cyclists or road safety these comments crop up ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...erstand/page12

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Cyclists who dress up in lycra, to go out in groups and slow down traffic by taking up as much of the road as possible. There's obviously a points system involved for the amount of cars you hold up but I haven't worked out how they tally it up yet. I'm also guessing they ride too fast for some in the group because if you're in front of them and slow them down a bit they always wave and shout their appreciation.
    From the person who breaks the law in his bike and doesn't give a toss ...

    More here ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ling-Etiquette

    There is plenty more for anyone who cares to look ...

  33. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Well done you have now introduced another dimension to the anti cycling brigade to latch onto.

    When you drive and you come up to a slower moving vehicle or a horse do you sound your horn before you overtake?

    Personally I find the use of bells a bit obnoxious when I’m walking. It feels a bit like the above ridiculous analogy.

    I find it much better to just say “morning” or “hello” and sometimes you get the greeting returned but more often than not you get a surprised face as many people are walking with ear buds in listening to music or podcasts so a greeting or a bell these days usually falls on deaf ears.

    The main issue I find when encountering people in the lanes are the previously mentioned music/phone zombies and dog walkers why have no control of their loose dogs which then chase you …

    As ever none of this is a problem if people act with consideration and certainly not an issue limited to people on bikes.

    If we are in the business of generalisations, if we were to measure the % of a***holes amongst cyclists I suspect it would be lower than that of BMW and Audi drivers …
    If you'd read my post properly you'd have seen I was talking specifically about shared foot/cycle paths and traffic free public spaces. I don't get to meet any horses or cars in these places, though I do get to meet very many joggers, walkers and cyclists on them.







    Yesterday was just another typical day walking on one of our local shared foot/cycle paths. I was almost hit by this idiot who shot past me from behind extremely closely and at high speed to get between the two bollards. Of course, she gave no warning whatsoever. Then again she had no bell! Had she given warning Lynn and I would have stepped aside to let her pass.

    And your 'cheery good morning' would have been no help whatsoever at the speed she was going!




    There are, on this shared path, quite a number of blind bends like this one. I'm amazed at the number of cyclists who give no warning when approaching at high speed, particularly early morning/evening when they're obviously commuting to/from work. Many folk are out at those times walking their dogs and I've seen one dog hit by one of these clowns - I was walking it at the time!




    Am I right in assuming, based on your replies in this thread, you don't have a bell fitted to your bike?

    For the record. I'm a cyclist, I have a bell fitted to my bike and I use it.
    Last edited by Griswold; 15th April 2024 at 10:41.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  34. #184
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    Not worth it.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandconjuration View Post
    Yes, cars weigh upwards of 2 tonnes and are capable of speeds exceeding 100 mph. There’s no surprise that they’re involved in 99% of pedestrian deaths due to red light jumping.

    Yet, a thread about red light jumping becomes 99% about cyclists. Very strange.
    These are strange days...as the world overheats and obesity an epidemic in the west, the true enemies are finally revealed, cyclists enjoying themselves! GRRRRRR

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbh View Post
    Probably the law breaker.

    FYI. https://www.councilclaims.co.uk/is-i...-the-pavement/

    However, you may just get away with it until you take your stabilisers off.
    Hehehe, in my minds eye I see a stout older gent bestriding a Raleigh Chopper, gleefully whizzing along the pavement, unashamed of his stabilizers, shooting the V's behind the backs of pedestrians, the little rascal.

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Hehehe, in my minds eye I see a stout older gent bestriding a Raleigh Chopper, gleefully whizzing along the pavement, unashamed of his stabilizers, shooting the V's behind the backs of pedestrians, the little rascal.
    That's cheating, you've obviously seen me.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  38. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    I was almost hit by this idiot who shot past me from behind extremely closely and at high speed to get between the two bollards. Of course, she gave no warning whatsoever. Then again she had no bell!
    Clearly an idiot, how do you know she has no bell? May have just not bothered to use it ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    Am I right in assuming, based on your replies in this thread, you don't have a bell fitted to your bike?
    I have 6 bikes in the garage, 4 have bells. If I was riding on the path shown in your images I'd ride a bike with a bell but in that context I would ride little more than walking pace when I encounter pedestrians and so I prefer to engage with a greeting than ring a bell which often alarms them with the surprise, the voice is a more gentle engagement, ringing a bell at someone has always struck me as a bit aggressive so I prefer a hello or morning, feels a bit more human. This all assumes of course they are not plugged into music/phones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    I've seen one dog hit by one of these clowns - I was walking it at the time!
    Sorry to read your dog was hit by a person on a bike, mixing dogs with bikes can present challenges, I have been chased by loose dogs on numerous occasions, once for about 2 miles at full gas by a Dobermann fortunately I escaped on a downhill section. In other examples I have been caught by those long retractable leads where a dog has darted across the road creating trip wire ... I don't blame the dogs. When riding near dogs I moderate my speed as I expect the dog to do something unpredictable. Riding fast past a dog is pain stupidity. I encounter dogs quite a bit on my routes.

    Yesterday on my bike ride I saw a high end BMW driver in Deal town centre drive fast and aggressively ... almost hit a family crossing on the pelican ... sadly there are idiots amongst us ...
    Last edited by Montello; 15th April 2024 at 12:15.

  39. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Clearly an idiot, how do you know she has no bell? May have just not bothered to use it ...




    I have 6 bikes in the garage, 4 have bells. If I was riding on the path shown in your images I'd ride a bike with a bell but in that context I would ride little more than walking pace when I encounter pedestrians and so I prefer to engage with a greeting than ring a bell which often alarms them with the surprise, the voice is a more gentle engagement, ringing a bell at someone has always struck me as a bit aggressive so I prefer a hello or morning, feels a bit more human. This all assumes of course they are not plugged into music/phones.




    Sorry to read your dog was hit by a person on a bike, mixing dogs with bikes can present challenges, I have been chased by loose dogs on numerous occasions, once for about 2 miles at full gas by a Dobermann fortunately I escaped on a downhill section. In other examples I have been caught by those long retractable leads where a dog has darted across the road creating trip wire ... I don't blame the dogs. When riding near dogs I moderate my speed as I expect the dog to do something unpredictable. Riding fast past a dog is pain stupidity. I encounter dogs quite a bit on my routes.

    Yesterday on my bike ride I saw a high end BMW driver in Deal town centre drive fast and aggressively ... almost hit a family crossing on the pelican ... sadly there are idiots amongst us ...
    You come across a a more intelligent cyclist than many around here. Lynn and I regularly walk the path shown in my photo's and those pics were taken on yesterdays walk, but we never fail to have cyclists flying past us from behind with no warning whatsoever so I make a point of looking to see if they have a bell or not and the lass certainly hadn't. But that seems to be the norm around here with cyclists, no bell and no warning given. It was the same the other day in York in the traffic free areas, a number of them were Deliveroo and Just Eat cyclists and clearly in a rush to collect or deliver.

    When cycling I ring my bell well in advance, often several times, and if I think they haven't heard, (i.e. looked round and/or moved to one side), I call out 'bike coming through' which always works - even on those who are engrossed in conversation; and people have actually thanked me for the warning. A lot of walkers around here are sick and tired of the way so many cyclists behave.

    And don't get me started on those idiot cyclists on mountain bikes tearing along the local, totally flat tarmac, canal paths giving no warnings to anglers shipping many thousands of pounds of carbon fibre poles! And as anglers we have to pay to be there!

    Oh, the dog, my sister in laws actually - I was dog sitting, was fine but the cyclist was seriously shaken up and very apologetic.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  40. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Not strange at all ... its because some people on this forum have an issue with cyclists ... these threads are not new and the same old debate goes through the mill and guess what the same old faces pop up again and again and guess what they don't hold any prejudice of hatred of people who ride bikes.

    Here are some highlights ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...Cyclists/page8



    ... even on topics which are nothing to do with cyclists or road safety these comments crop up ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...erstand/page12



    From the person who breaks the law in his bike and doesn't give a toss ...

    More here ...

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ling-Etiquette

    There is plenty more for anyone who cares to look ...
    Yeh I said that and so what?
    I’ve made no attempt to hide the fact I dislike cyclist, seeing as you’re quoting me I also said this….

    One of my basic gripes about cyclist is that they do certain things just because they can.<br />
    We were taking my sons girlfriend back home a few weekends ago with the wife when 2 cyclists were going in the opposite direction along a very busy road side by side. <br />
    When I passed them they were taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    I dropped off my boys girlfriend which is about 5 miles up the road and by the time I had turned around and caught back up with them they were still in exactly the same position i.e. Side by side taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    We were caught behind them I would say for over a mile and eventually they turned off and went the other way.<br />
    They were complete happy without a care in the world chatting away taking up the whole carriageway holding up countless cars.<br />
    Whilst I'm sure the law is completely on their side I would in the situation have pulled in behind my mate and made it easier for others to pass,<br />
    It's this kind of attitude that p***es me off about cyclist

    You see my experiences with cyclists is why I dislike them. Despite what you think it’s not based out of hatred or prejudice. I’ve said this before but clearly you don’t understand


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  41. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Yeh I said that and so what?
    I’ve made no attempt to hide the fact I dislike cyclist, seeing as you’re quoting me I also said this….

    One of my basic gripes about cyclist is that they do certain things just because they can.<br />
    We were taking my sons girlfriend back home a few weekends ago with the wife when 2 cyclists were going in the opposite direction along a very busy road side by side. <br />
    When I passed them they were taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    I dropped off my boys girlfriend which is about 5 miles up the road and by the time I had turned around and caught back up with them they were still in exactly the same position i.e. Side by side taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    We were caught behind them I would say for over a mile and eventually they turned off and went the other way.<br />
    They were complete happy without a care in the world chatting away taking up the whole carriageway holding up countless cars.<br />
    Whilst I'm sure the law is completely on their side I would in the situation have pulled in behind my mate and made it easier for others to pass,<br />
    It's this kind of attitude that p***es me off about cyclist

    You see my experiences with cyclists is why I dislike them. Despite what you think it’s not based out of hatred or prejudice. I’ve said this before but clearly you don’t understand

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I could recount many tales about motorists or dog walkers, or something else, that have created less ideal situations for me but that doesn't lead me to dislike motorists or dog walkers ... it just leads me to conclude that some people are selfish and/or unaware of how their actions may impact/annoy others ... do you see the difference in our approach?

    You, by your own admission do not like cyclists because of the experience you have had with the cyclists you have encountered which is a tiny percentage of all cyclists. That is the very definition of prejudice.

    Prejudice[1] can be an affective feeling towards a person based on their perceived group membership.[2] The word is often used to refer to a preconceived (usually unfavourable) evaluation or classification of another person based on that person's perceived personal characteristics, such as political affiliation, sex, gender, gender identity, beliefs, values, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race, ethnicity, language, nationality, culture, complexion, beauty, height, body weight, occupation, wealth, education, criminality, sport-team affiliation, music tastes or other perceived characteristics.[3]
    Last edited by Montello; 15th April 2024 at 13:34. Reason: typo

  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    You come across a a more intelligent cyclist than many around here. Lynn and I regularly walk the path shown in my photo's and those pics were taken on yesterdays walk, but we never fail to have cyclists flying past us from behind with no warning whatsoever so I make a point of looking to see if they have a bell or not and the lass certainly hadn't. But that seems to be the norm around here with cyclists, no bell and no warning given. It was the same the other day in York in the traffic free areas, a number of them were Deliveroo and Just Eat cyclists and clearly in a rush to collect or deliver.

    When cycling I ring my bell well in advance, often several times, and if I think they haven't heard, (i.e. looked round and/or moved to one side), I call out 'bike coming through' which always works - even on those who are engrossed in conversation; and people have actually thanked me for the warning. A lot of walkers around here are sick and tired of the way so many cyclists behave.

    And don't get me started on those idiot cyclists on mountain bikes tearing along the local, totally flat tarmac, canal paths giving no warnings to anglers shipping many thousands of pounds of carbon fibre poles! And as anglers we have to pay to be there!

    Oh, the dog, my sister in laws actually - I was dog sitting, was fine but the cyclist was seriously shaken up and very apologetic.
    If you saw no bell on the handle bars you must have seen her coming because you can't judge the presence of a bell from the rear.

    Also looking are her, the bike and the surface I doubt she was doing much more than 10-12mph although this could be perceived as fast to a walker ...

    Deliveroo / Just Eats are a total scourge in Canterbury City Centre as the main high street is pedestrianised and features many restaurants and take-aways. These guys on the gig economy ride far too fast amongst the pedestrians on eBikes that must be chipped to go faster than the 15mph limit. I imagine they create a great deal of anti cycling animosity as they weave at pace through the crowds.

    It's not about the bell or the lycra or the BMW it is about the individual. Some people are considerate others are not.

    The reason I continue with this topic is to try and counter the view that all cyclists are a problem, *some* are just as *some* motorists are and *some* dog walkers are and so on ...

    As stated previously if people had better attitudes then cycling could preform a key role in active transport for the bettering of the nation in both health and the flow of traffic.
    Last edited by Montello; 15th April 2024 at 13:36. Reason: typo

  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    If you saw no bell on the handle bars you must have seen her coming because you can't judge the presence of a bell from the rear.

    Also looking are her, the bike and the surface I doubt she was doing much more than 10-12mph although this could be perceived as fast to a walker ...
    She had to slow to a degree to pass me without hitting one of the bollards and I could clearly see as she passed me that she didn't have a bell fitted. It was more the shock of someone suddenly being there without warning than the actual speed, though she was going quite quickly as you can gauge by the distance she'd covered by the time I'd raised my camera to my eye to take the shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Deliveroo / Just Eats are a total scourge in Canterbury City Centre as the main high street is pedestrianised and features many restaurants and take-aways. These guys on the gig economy ride far too fast amongst the pedestrians on eBikes that must be chipped to go faster than the 15mph limit. I imagine they create a great deal of anti cycling animosity as the weave as pace through the crowds.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    It's not about the bell or the lycra or the BMW it is about the individual. Some people are considerate others are not.

    The reason I continue with this topic is to try and counter the view that all cyclists are a problem, *some* are just as *some* motorists are and *some* dog walkers are and so on ...

    As stated previously if people had better attitudes then cycling could preform a key role in active transport for the bettering of the nation in both health and the flow of traffic.
    On this I'm in total agreement and made that point earlier in the thread. I genuinely believe that these cyclists behave equally inconsiderately behind the wheel of a car or the handle of a supermarket trolly. And yes, they're not the majority of cyclists; but there are the majority of cyclists who get noticed and the majority of cyclists who give cyclists a bad name.

    Genuine open question. Is this an English, (UK?), problem? Experiences abroad, (Belgium and Holland in particular), tell me that cyclists there ride at a more leisurely pace than here - certainly in and around the towns and built up areas.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  44. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I could recount many tales about motorists or dog walkers, or something else, that have created less ideal situations for me but that doesn't lead me to dislike motorists or dog walkers ... it just leads me to conclude that some people are selfish and/or unaware of how their actions may impact/annoy others ... do you see the difference in our approach?

    You, by your own admission do not like cyclists because of the experience you have had with the cyclists you have encountered which is a tiny percentage of all cyclists. That is the very definition of prejudice.

    Prejudice[1] can be an affective feeling towards a person based on their perceived group membership.[2] The word is often used to refer to a preconceived (usually unfavourable) evaluation or classification of another person based on that person's perceived personal characteristics, such as political affiliation, sex, gender, gender identity, beliefs, values, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race, ethnicity, language, nationality, culture, complexion, beauty, height, body weight, occupation, wealth, education, criminality, sport-team affiliation, music tastes or other perceived characteristics.[3]
    Seriously …. Seek help


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  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Seriously …. Seek help
    I think its you that needs help with your prejudice ...

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    Genuine open question. Is this an English, (UK?), problem? Experiences abroad, (Belgium and Holland in particular), tell me that cyclists there ride at a more leisurely pace than here - certainly in and around the towns and built up areas.
    I have cycled in The Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, France and Australia ... and small amounts in SE Asia and NZ.

    I'd say in mainland Europe the attitude is much better as the bicycle is much more and accepted part of their culture and transport solution. It is nothing to do with the pace of cycling, there are probably more sports cyclists in Europe.

    In Australia there is a pretty hostile attitude towards cyclists and its a quite a risky activity there on the roads.

  47. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I think its you that needs help with your prejudice ...
    I need to seek help?
    Ask yourself a question… who’s just searched old posts of mine moaning about cyclists? I make no bones about disliking some cyclists, in fact you’d have to be stupid to think anything different. You however almost seem obsessed.


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  48. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Yeh I said that and so what?
    I’ve made no attempt to hide the fact I dislike cyclist, seeing as you’re quoting me I also said this….

    One of my basic gripes about cyclist is that they do certain things just because they can.<br />
    We were taking my sons girlfriend back home a few weekends ago with the wife when 2 cyclists were going in the opposite direction along a very busy road side by side. <br />
    When I passed them they were taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    I dropped off my boys girlfriend which is about 5 miles up the road and by the time I had turned around and caught back up with them they were still in exactly the same position i.e. Side by side taking up most of the carriageway.<br />
    We were caught behind them I would say for over a mile and eventually they turned off and went the other way.<br />
    They were complete happy without a care in the world chatting away taking up the whole carriageway holding up countless cars.<br />
    Whilst I'm sure the law is completely on their side I would in the situation have pulled in behind my mate and made it easier for others to pass,<br />
    It's this kind of attitude that p***es me off about cyclist

    You see my experiences with cyclists is why I dislike them. Despite what you think it’s not based out of hatred or prejudice. I’ve said this before but clearly you don’t understand


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    Sending thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.

    It sounds like you were delayed far less time than it took to write out your moan, which has zero relevance to the original post.

  49. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I need to seek help?
    Ask yourself a question… who’s just searched old posts of mine moaning about cyclists? I make no bones about disliking some cyclists, in fact you’d have to be stupid to think anything different. You however almost seem obsessed.
    It only took a couple of minutes to find your previous rants, there are many to pick from ...

    I note some potential progress as you have inserted the word *some* in front of cyclists ...

    It is odd because in your other posts you come over as a decent and sensible person but when cyclists get a mention you trigger ...
    Last edited by Montello; 15th April 2024 at 14:39.

  50. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    It only took a couple of minutes to find your previous rants, there are many to pick from ...

    I note some potential progress as you have inserted the word *some* in front of cyclists ...

    It is odd because in your other posts you come over as a decent and sensible person but when cyclists get a mention you trigger ...
    You seem quite persistent in saying that I’ve made lots of negative comments about cyclists. You don’t have to tell me that, I know I’ve made loads. It’s because I’ve had loads or reasons to do so. As for coming across as decent and sensible, I can only apologise if that’s how I’ve come across. That was never my intention.


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