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Thread: Some Rolex advice from forum wise owls please...

  1. #1
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Some Rolex advice from forum wise owls please...

    I'm after some Rolex guidance from wiser heads than mine (which is most of you I suspect), please.
    I've owned two, an Explorer and a GMT, and sold both, the last maybe seven or eight years ago. Have always said I'd never have another - partly because they've been stupidly over-priced for so long, and partly because it's seemed silly to me to have a tool watch you either can't wear in lots of places, or can wear but only with eyes in the back of your head.
    Anyway, my pa passed away in November. He bought a new Submariner in 1966. Sold it in about 2001 and then bought another (used) in 2005 and sold that too (of what he had left my wife is now wearing his Pulsar G10 and my son wore his Pulsar chrono to a CCF black tie dinner on Friday). He loved both the Subs, and I recently found a sheaf of lovely correspondence between him and Rolex in Switzerland, and, long-story short, it's made me think maybe it would be nice to have a Sub to remember him by when I look at the time. It won't be his Sub, because that's not an option, but it will still bring happy memories.
    However, whilst I flatter myself I know a few things about a few brands, Rolex is a closed book to me. Can anyone suggest which Sub models I should be researching if I want the nearest thing to an affordable Submariner please?
    Giles at Oakleigh has a 16610 at under £9k (see link) but I presume this is because it has no papers and I'm guessing that would make it hard to sell on if the experiment doesn't work out (and as this would be by FAR the most expensive watch I own, or indeed have ever owned, I do need to tread carefully). I guess it would be a lot more as a full set, but I have no idea how much more. https://www.oakleighwatches.co.uk/pr...bmariner-date/
    Anyway, open to advice please. What to avoid, things which Rolex people all hate but which look totally normal to me, and so on. I guess I'm looking for something well-used and possibly quite patinaed so it's financially realistic, rather than a safe queen, but as I say, Rolex is a foreign country to me.

  2. #2
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    I'd always go 6 digit ceramic. Much better bracelets and overall feel imo and I'm pretty sure they aren't an over RRP watch now?

  3. #3
    If going pre-owned you will not go wrong purchasing from Miltons. Well priced watches, genuine and honest people plus safe in the knowledge what you are buying is 100% correct.

    https://www.miltonaires.com/product-...y/rolex-sports

    Oh and a day trip to Liverpool as they don't mail order!

  4. #4
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Would agree with Miltonaires being a very good place to start.

    Two things to decide on before you go hunting would be sub vs sub date and ceramic vs pre ceramic.

    Watches of Whitby tend to have some good options in from time to time too.

  5. #5
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    I may be wrong (and often am) but his 1966 watch is likely to have been a 5513, a simple three hander with no date. His 2005 watch could have been a 14060, 16610, 1680 or 16800 but probably one of the first two.

    Personally, Iíd look for a 14060 although the 16610 is a good call too, obviously avoiding the six digit ceramics as they are a lot different to the watches your dad would have worn.

    Iíd echo previous posts and pay Haywood a visit; heís one of the most knowledgeable experts on all Rolex watches and you can be 100% certain of what youíre getting when buying from him.

    I wouldnít worry about lack of papers, yes it will be worth slightly less if you sell it but it will be costing you less in the first place. Itís only on here where Rolex buyers seem to insist on full sets including the tissue used to wipe away the tears of joy when making the initial purchase.

    Good luck with your search and keep us all posted as to your decision.

  6. #6
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    If going pre-owned you will not go wrong purchasing from Miltons. Well priced watches, genuine and honest people plus safe in the knowledge what you are buying is 100% correct.

    https://www.miltonaires.com/product-...y/rolex-sports

    Oh and a day trip to Liverpool as they don't mail order!
    Thank you - Will have a look.

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  7. #7
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I may be wrong (and often am) but his 1966 watch is likely to have been a 5513, a simple three hander with no date. His 2005 watch could have been a 14060, 16610, 1680 or 16800 but probably one of the first two.

    Personally, Iíd look for a 14060 although the 16610 is a good call too, obviously avoiding the six digit ceramics as they are a lot different to the watches your dad would have worn.

    Iíd echo previous posts and pay Haywood a visit; heís one of the most knowledgeable experts on all Rolex watches and you can be 100% certain of what youíre getting when buying from him.

    I wouldnít worry about lack of papers, yes it will be worth slightly less if you sell it but it will be costing you less in the first place. Itís only on here where Rolex buyers seem to insist on full sets including the tissue used to wipe away the tears of joy when making the initial purchase.

    Good luck with your search and keep us all posted as to your decision.
    Thanks Dave. Definitely not ceramic. I'd like it to match his first or his second so that's useful. Is Hayward Watches of Whitby or the chaps up in Liverpool?

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  8. #8
    Master
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    Dom Hackett at Hackett Watches too.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Itís only on here where Rolex buyers seem to insist on full sets including the tissue used to wipe away the tears of joy when making the initial purchase.
    Chortle

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Is Hayward Watches of Whitby or the chaps up in Liverpool?

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    Haywood is the owner of Miltonaires in Liverpool and also a member on here.

  11. #11
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Haywood is the owner of Miltonaires in Liverpool and also a member on here.
    Fab. Thank you.

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  12. #12
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Whilst I don't have dad's watch, I did find this.

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  13. #13
    Master
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    I think youíll be presently surprised by current prices too.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    I recently found a sheaf of lovely correspondence between him and Rolex in Switzerland
    As an aside, I suspect I'm not the only one on here who would like to hear a bit more about that.

  15. #15
    Master
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    Not the Rolex advice you requested and I guess it depends what significance you put on the correspondence your father had with Switzerland but
    if you were previously 'done' with Rolex and any watch you would buy would have no connection to your father I wouldn't bother.
    In your shoes I'd rather keep/enjoy something that he still had and left behind.

  16. #16
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuna1138 View Post
    Not the Rolex advice you requested and I guess it depends what significance you put on the correspondence your father had with Switzerland but
    if you were previously 'done' with Rolex and any watch you would buy would have no connection to your father I wouldn't bother.
    In your shoes I'd rather keep/enjoy something that he still had and left behind.
    Fait points but he's left nothing behind for me to wear. The two I mentioned have gone to others and the Citizen he was wearing when he died I binned, just because...well you know.
    I associate him very strongly with Subs so there is a connection I think I'll enjoy.

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  17. #17
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom-P View Post
    As an aside, I suspect I'm not the only one on here who would like to hear a bit more about that.
    I'll dig it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Fait points but he's left nothing behind for me to wear. The two I mentioned have gone to others and the Citizen he was wearing when he died I binned, just because...well you know.
    I associate him very strongly with Subs so there is a connection I think I'll enjoy.

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    If you reflect on your father and his life, when you look at the watch - that's all the justification you need, I would say.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    I may be wrong (and often am) but his 1966 watch is likely to have been a 5513, a simple three hander with no date. His 2005 watch could have been a 14060, 16610, 1680 or 16800 but probably one of the first two.

    Personally, Iíd look for a 14060 although the 16610 is a good call too, obviously avoiding the six digit ceramics as they are a lot different to the watches your dad would have worn.

    Iíd echo previous posts and pay Haywood a visit; heís one of the most knowledgeable experts on all Rolex watches and you can be 100% certain of what youíre getting when buying from him.

    I wouldnít worry about lack of papers, yes it will be worth slightly less if you sell it but it will be costing you less in the first place. Itís only on here where Rolex buyers seem to insist on full sets including the tissue used to wipe away the tears of joy when making the initial purchase.

    Good luck with your search and keep us all posted as to your decision.
    That did make me smile :)

  20. #20
    Grand Master
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    Mike Wood for Rolex as well - http://www.theoldwatchshop.com/

    No other suggestions bar echoing 16610/14060

  21. #21
    Craftsman
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    IMO, buying a Submariner and the connection to your Father, would be a wonderful way of remembering him.

    Having looked at the Oakleigh listing in the link above, it seems to show that the 2007 model comes will "full papers", both original boxes, all the booklets and the tags. Assuming the 1,000ft anchor came with your Father's watch, it would have been either a 16610 or 14060 from 2005 or earlier (or possibly a 16800/168000), as Rolex stopped issuing the anchors around then. If you aren't sure whether his watch had a date or not, I'd choose whichever appeals to you most.

    All the recommended dealers above a good and I've had positive dealings with Giles at Oakleigh in the past.

  22. #22
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    I associate him very strongly with Subs so there is a connection I think I'll enjoy.
    I guess your initial post pretty much said the same, but that one sentance is pretty clear.
    Good luck with your search, from the recommendations already posted I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for.

  23. #23
    Reckon you be able to get a nice 16610 2000s sel onwards for £75 ish

    And a late nice 16600 for £8s so wait and bide your time from a good collector here

    Unless you want to go the bricks mortar dealer route and pay the extra £1k+

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by alanski View Post
    Reckon you be able to get a nice 16610 2000s sel onwards for £75 ish

    And a late nice 16600 for £8s so wait and bide your time from a good collector here

    Unless you want to go the bricks mortar dealer route and pay the extra £1k+
    Dealers prices are around £7.5k ish for an older 16610, or £8.5k ish for a new one now.

    I think privately the OP would want to be paying less.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Dealers prices are around £7.5k ish for an older 16610, or £8.5k ish for a new one now.

    I think privately the OP would want to be paying less.
    Agreed , hence I said that 9k one is a wee bit on the dear as f side

  26. #26
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Whilst I don't have dad's watch, I did find this.

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    Hold it! I'm not a rolex expert but they anchor looks to say 1000 isn't that the depth? So 'pa' had a sea dweller?

  27. #27
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Some Rolex advice from forum wise owls please...

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    Hold it! I'm not a rolex expert but they anchor looks to say 1000 isn't that the depth? So 'pa' had a sea dweller?
    1000ft perhaps? Or 300m

    The 16600 Seadweller is rated to 4000ft or 1220m
    Last edited by Dave+63; 12th February 2024 at 20:45.

  28. #28
    Master
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    Ahhh yes that makes sense.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    Ahhh yes that makes sense.
    I had to double check by looking at subs and Seadwellers for sale.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    Hold it! I'm not a rolex expert but they anchor looks to say 1000 isn't that the depth? So 'pa' had a sea dweller?
    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    Hold it! I'm not a rolex expert but they anchor looks to say 1000 isn't that the depth? So 'pa' had a sea dweller?
    Anchor says 300 metres on one side and 1000 ft on the other. Itís definitely from a Sub


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  31. #31
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say how much I appreciate all these pearls of wisdom. Genuinely really helping. Thank you guys.

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  32. #32
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Dealers prices are around £7.5k ish for an older 16610, or £8.5k ish for a new one now.

    I think privately the OP would want to be paying less.
    You are quite right!

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  33. #33
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDSSD View Post
    IMO, buying a Submariner and the connection to your Father, would be a wonderful way of remembering him.

    Having looked at the Oakleigh listing in the link above, it seems to show that the 2007 model comes will "full papers", both original boxes, all the booklets and the tags. Assuming the 1,000ft anchor came with your Father's watch, it would have been either a 16610 or 14060 from 2005 or earlier (or possibly a 16800/168000), as Rolex stopped issuing the anchors around then. If you aren't sure whether his watch had a date or not, I'd choose whichever appeals to you most.

    All the recommended dealers above a good and I've had positive dealings with Giles at Oakleigh in the past.
    Thanks Steve. Really useful. I've also had good dealings with Giles over the years so would be happy doing so again if the right thing came up.

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  34. #34
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Was talking to Watchfinder about a multi-trade, i.e. a few of my things against one of their (many, many) Subs. They said choose one so I had a look. Turns out that they polish every single piece which is out of Rolex warranty. What a tragedy for the old 14060s and 5513s. Akin to vandalism!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Was talking to Watchfinder about a multi-trade, i.e. a few of my things against one of their (many, many) Subs. They said choose one so I had a look. Turns out that they polish every single piece which is out of Rolex warranty. What a tragedy for the old 14060s and 5513s. Akin to vandalism!
    My advice for what it's worth is never buy this stuff from WF or BQ.

    Forum, Miltonaires, Watches of Whitby, Old Watch Shop.
    I cant speak of Hackett as ive never used but ive heard positive things.
    Personally I wouldn't look beyond those 5.

  36. #36
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Was talking to Watchfinder about a multi-trade, i.e. a few of my things against one of their (many, many) Subs. They said choose one so I had a look. Turns out that they polish every single piece which is out of Rolex warranty. What a tragedy for the old 14060s and 5513s. Akin to vandalism!
    As Verv suggests - and why not start off with a WTB on TZ?

    It could very well produce a good result.

  37. #37
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Looking at Miltonaires, I think he has what I would consider the perfect option.
    A 14060M (The M means the later, better-specified movement).
    Date or no date is your choice, but the Sub dial with no date just looks great.
    And the (second 14060M on the page) one he has is the 4-line version.
    The 2 line (first one on the page) can look a little sparse on the dial, the 4 line is better balanced (imho).
    Stock number 52-70-014
    It is also the series that is 1000ft WR, so matches your anchor.
    I wouldn't be looking much further.

  38. #38
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    My advice for what it's worth is never buy this stuff from WF or BQ.

    Forum, Miltonaires, Watches of Whitby, Old Watch Shop.
    I cant speak of Hackett as ive never used but ive heard positive things.
    Personally I wouldn't look beyond those 5.
    Very good advice there.

  39. #39
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    My advice for what it's worth is never buy this stuff from WF or BQ.

    Forum, Miltonaires, Watches of Whitby, Old Watch Shop.
    I cant speak of Hackett as ive never used but ive heard positive things.
    Personally I wouldn't look beyond those 5.
    Thanks Verv. Have been looking at all those since the suggestions and thanks re WF and BQ!

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  40. #40
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    Pardon my ignorance but what's 'BQ'?

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    Pardon my ignorance but what's 'BQ'?
    BQ Watches. A well known dealer.

  42. #42
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbn13 View Post
    BQ Watches. A well known dealer.
    Ah ok. Many thanks. Genuinely hadn't heard of them.

  43. #43
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    Ah ok. Many thanks. Genuinely hadn't heard of them.
    Theyíre literally five minutes from my house, but for some reason Iíve never popped in. They do seem to have a pretty good stock though, and are not too unreasonable in terms of pricing.

  44. #44
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    Was talking to Watchfinder about a multi-trade, i.e. a few of my things against one of their (many, many) Subs. They said choose one so I had a look. Turns out that they polish every single piece which is out of Rolex warranty. What a tragedy for the old 14060s and 5513s. Akin to vandalism!
    Nothing wrong with polishing if itís been done carefully and correctly, but you can only assess that with the watch in your hands and you do need to know what to look for.

    Iíve owned both the 16610 and a very nice 14060M 4 liner, I preferred the cleaner look of the non- date but could never get the bracelet to fit comfortably. The bracelets differ in detail, the link connecting the clasp to the bracelet on the 6 side is longer on the 14060 and that made it impossible for me to shorten the 6 side sufficiently to centralise the position of the clasp, making the watch fit lop-sided. The 16610 fitted far better. My wrists are 6.75Ē and square, folks with bigger and flatter wrists will be fine with either, but for me it made a big difference and thatís the reason I sold the 14060.

    Canít say I miss owning a Sub, Iím not a dive watch fan despite having owned a few.

  45. #45
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    My advice for what it's worth is never buy this stuff from WF or BQ.

    Forum, Miltonaires, Watches of Whitby, Old Watch Shop.
    I cant speak of Hackett as ive never used but ive heard positive things.
    Personally I wouldn't look beyond those 5.
    Watches of Distinction, Verv?


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  46. #46
    Master
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    Some Rolex advice from forum wise owls please...

    Delete

  47. #47
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRed71 View Post
    Watches of Distinction, Verv?
    I dont have any experience of them, I think they've been mentioned on forum before though and iirc it was positive. Giles is ringing a bell.

  48. #48

    Quote Originally Posted by verv View Post
    I dont have any experience of them, I think they've been mentioned on forum before though and iirc it was positive. Giles is ringing a bell.
    That's right....Giles Waites. My mate James used to work at WOD Lymington for him.

  49. #49
    Grand Master
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    Thinking back to a few years ago when the Watchfinder branch in Leeds had a window full of Rolex, with a couple of Daytonas and Subs, I didnít inspect any watch carefully but from outside I got the imoression some had been heavily polished, Daytona bezels especially.

    Strongly advise inspecting anything from Watchfinder v. carefully.

    Garry Sanderson might be worth trying, he gets some top notch stuff in stock, Iíve bought from him in the past. Sold a watch to him too, and he was v. fair to deal with.

  50. #50
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Thinking back to a few years ago when the Watchfinder branch in Leeds had a window full of Rolex, with a couple of Daytonas and Subs, I didnít inspect any watch carefully but from outside I got the imoression some had been heavily polished, Daytona bezels especially.

    Strongly advise inspecting anything from Watchfinder v. carefully.

    Garry Sanderson might be worth trying, he gets some top notch stuff in stock, Iíve bought from him in the past. Sold a watch to him too, and he was v. fair to deal with.
    Thank you!

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