Hi, just trying to pin down the government/Ofsted's rules or guidance in relation to parents accompanying children on a school trip.
Little background, the school are taking the children to Jodrell Bank and want to exclude my son as a "risk assessment" suggests he is a risk... I said that my son has been victimised enough already at the school over the years and that I would be prepared to come along as a volunteer and guarantee his and everyone else safety etc.
He has no conditions or other issues, he is just a lively, anxious and immature 9 year old who chatters a lot and the teachers cannot be bothered dealing with him. They thought that my offer was a great idea and I told my son I was volunteering and he was very excited that I would be attending.
Now I have received a call from a coordinator at the school to discuss me driving my son to the location in my own vehicle. Excuses for him not to be on the coach with the other kids range from the coach company not allowing parents....??? to me not being DBS checked. (am a volunteer paramedic and was in the past given an enhanced DBS check...) I may get one now to preempt this...
I have tried to search for government or OFSTED guidelines on parent volunteers attending school trips but all I can see are individual school policies which make no mention of a DBS check and simply say they require a character reference.
I'm personally known, professionally and personally to the heads at the school and they will have no concerns with me personally, it is just some jobsworth at the school making an issue out of nothing...
The school have already told my child that "as you cannot be trusted to behave, you father will be taking you and accompanying you" just further destroying his confidence...
I would really like him to be included as a normal child and thus would like to pre-empt any more nonsense from them when I speak to them tomorrow so it would be great to have chapter and verse if any in relation to these rules.
Many thanks in advance.
JC
If you need a DBS then it needs to come from the schools process, you don't generally get a 'generic' one and then use it as and when. It needs to be specific to the volunteering role in question.
I can sort of see the need - I guess the school have to consider the other kids and their parents.
That said seems odd that things have escalated to this extent for a nine year old.
Probably best just to drive him yourself at this stage
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ive had multiple DBS checks done with different places - they are non transferable AFAIK - great little earner for those doing them :/
My parents used to help and accompany my sister when as a teacher she was doing class trips. They didn’t even have a kid on the coach (well aside from my sister).
She is a Head at a school in Hampshire, will drop her a message to see her thoughts.
Sounds despicable the way they have explained your presence to your son. I’d be having some very strong words with the contacts you have there.
This stuff is damaging and will be remembered. I still recall an incident from a teacher’s comment and 40yrs later I still remember it, and every detail about it. I would safely say it knocked my confidence.
OK, heard back from her already.
Her view is this is unacceptable from the school, and that you should ask for the personal risk assessment of your child.
Rules changes a couple of years ago & volunteers cannot be group leads anymore.
Coach company is BS as they won’t know who is staff and who isn’t and it doesn’t affect their insurance etc.
Her advice is that if you have a good relationship with the heads, give them a call.
Her other advice is she would not want her daughter anywhere near a place that spoke to / excluded him like that & would be getting your son out asap, but I guess you know that was coming.
I am a retired teacher and my only (40yrs) experience teaching is working with children who have/had behavioral problems. including young adolescents who 'did time in prison'. Not the easiest job, but I would do it all over again. No doubt.
I think (no, I know!) that I can write this with a certain amount of educational-pedagogical experience: bottom-line, it makes me really angry when a school teacher tells a 9 y/o that he '...cannot be trusted...' (Although I think you don't need much of my professional experience to come to the same conclusion). Education is also about trust and personality development. And second chances. Third chances even.
I applaud you for coming up with a solution like this. I don't know anything about the UK's DBS rules, I cannot comment on that. For a second I thought: "What's an Aston Martin got to do with this?"(...)
Are you sure you want your child to stay in that school? I know that this reply doesn't help you. But the whole story makes me sad.
Last edited by thieuster; 8th February 2024 at 16:59.
Have you seen their risk assessment?
If not - is it possible that they are shying away from telling you something and that is why their ‘arguments/decisions’ don’t hold up?
Thank you all so much for your feedback and advice. It is very helpful indeed and I will be taking this further with them tomorrow.
You are 100% correct in the approach of the school and we have been very dissatisfied with the school now for a couple of years. It reached a head last year and we made the decision to relocate as there are no other suitable schools locally. Some may know, but we are moving to London in the summer all being well and we have sold our amazing home that somewhere on here has a build thread.
He is too special a child for him to continue to endure what he has gone through and my 4yr old daughter who is the most happy joyful girl imaginable and loved every minute of her private nursery started telling me weeks in to reception that she doesn't want to go to school. Unfortunately it is rotten from the top down. And though my 2 older children were well catered for there, a change of leadership and meddling by ofsted has led to kneejerk reactions that have snowballed in a complete mess of a school sadly.
I had many battles with schools over the years to the extent the secondary school wanted to exclude our son due to behaviour and bouts of non attendance and called in the council to make sure they followed process, what they didn’t bank on was me also doing my research, the council basically tore the school a new one saying they didn’t follow process and allow reasonable adjustments for his ASD.
Once it was a first 10 forms in goes on a trip to Italy, my wife took my son and waited for the school to open he was that keen, then it turned out 11 wanted to go, so names then came out of a hat and my son didn’t go, I suspect that was rigged but can’t prove it. The trip went ahead but the minibus broke down and they ended up only spending one day in Italy, meanwhile I went around Europe on the train with my son instead.
Obviously the school will reimburse you for your expenses to take your son including business insurance as they will expect you to pay for him to attend.
I would ask for risk assessments and also to speak with the SENCO and see how it goes, research the school’s policies and procedures and also the councils and don’t give up the fight.
Jesus, I feel for you, but isn't moving 200 miles away a bit drastic?
Joking aside, we had all this at our son's primary school. He had an EHCP for his hemiplegia, but you wouldn't necessarily know anything was wrong with him when first seeing and talking with him. But he'd get tired a lot quicker then other kids because physically everything was more difficult, which would make him a bit ratty in the afternoons. Anyway, the school just refused to make any adjustments despite the EHCP, and would single him out, send him out of the room for things like resting his head on his arms, or having a drink from his bottle. Low level stuff that over time added up. Then he started getting grief from some little scrote who'd arrived after being kicked out of another school. The school refused to acknowledge the bullying and tried to gaslight us all the time.
We ended up making a formal complaint to the governors, Offsted, the local MP, and the local authority. After a 3-month investigation they found the standards of care for SEN kids unacceptable and put them on watch, with a list of recommendations. The harridan of a head mistress went, as did the form teacher and the Senco. Good riddance to all of them. They were just horrible people and should never have been working with kids. The whole experience was completely draining, but we pursued it because we had to, and the end result was worth it because the school has changed for the better. He's still scarred by it though.
If it was me, I would pursue the school for the risk assessment to see what it says. Seems odd that your child is suddenly a risk liability? If you can be bothered you could start a formal complaint, but if you're moving anyway you might just want to forget the whole thing. The school needs to have a really good reason to exclude him from the trip, e.g. he's violent or a danger to other kids, or requires special needs provision that can't be met outside school, but it doesn't sound like that to me.
I know not all schools are bad, but the two we've encountered so far in our son's life have been pretty bloody awful. Some good teachers, but toxic culture.
Good luck
Just to say there are no SEN issues at play here.
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Just as an update. I have had an email this evening from the deputy head apologies for a major misunderstanding and that information "wasn't read and understood properly" etc and that I will be welcome on the coach with my son etc.
Now, that's all very nice but the damage has been done and I was more concerned with what they told my son than me having to drive him there...
I will follow up on this basis but as you can tell, my confidence in the schools ability to care for the emotional needs of my children is non existent and has been for a while.
As to the move 200 miles away, my wife is a London girl, never really wanted to be in Manchester, I now have a office in London too and my older daughter is in a 6th form college on London and living with her grandparents so if we are going to make the huge step of moving home, it may aswell be to somewhere, the family all want to be...
Thanks for all the feedback and support, it is very much appreciated.
I am really put off by the term 'risk assessment' as if a child is a dangling piano above a sidewalk with pedestrians... Schools that use that term are só far detached from children.
Just to add, this email was in response to me emailing the Senco requesting his risk assessment and school policy or quoting ofsted's policy on parent volunteers etc..
I copied in the head, deputy and a local organisation that supports parents with children with educational needs...
Glad you got it halfway sorted but some big decisions ahead. I don’t envy you.
Have you looked into / ruled out ADHD?
Schools have a statutory requirement to utilise risk assessment as part of their responsibilities and duties.Originally Posted by thieuster
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I get that. But with this dehumanized, technical approach, a conversation with the message "You cannot be trusted" is around the corner. The human factor, here: the child factor, is completely gone. "He is a risk because we cannot control him. We cannot trust his behaviour, his reaction. Hence, he's a liability!" Not a single step back with "Mmmm, perhaps we should change our approach; he's a 9 y/o... A NINE year old kid, NOT some hardened juvenile delinquent who did time! He wasn't in for an armed robbery, pulling a knife or worse. (- my 'audience').
What will his absence during the trip do to him (mentally) and how will the teachers react after that day. Every blink of an eye, every move will be addressed as: 'See, good that we didn't take him with us!' I bet and arm and a leg that no teacher will come (voluntarily) up to his dad with: 'In hindsight we should have taken him. We were wrong'.
The school's professionals failed to communicate on various levels and failed to come up with a plan. And they fail to come up with a plan how to deal with a disappointed kid. When he's disappointed it will be on his plate. Not straight telling him (I hope not...): 'It's all your fault, basically. With better behaviour you would have been welcome. See what happens, you need to change yourng man'. But that's their message.
How's that included in the Risk Management Analyses?
Really, I don't know the OP's kid, I don't know the OP. But I know so many incapable teachers! And this is a worse case of being incapable. I know I shouldn't care, but it really makes my blood boil.
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You do good to move. And far far away is a good plan. Schools have a network in and around a town. And they tell new schools what's heading their way. My advice: find a new school and make sure that the current school knows as late as possible what the address of the new school is. And, try to convince the school to start without reading all the paperwork. A good teacher can determine within an hour what he has in his class. Without reading the history. I wouldn't be amazed when a new teacher doesn't recognize anything of the 'bad behaviour' and is highly surprised when he reads the boy's 'history'.
Are parents in the UK free to choose the school they want, or is there a certain system that dictates: "this postal code is this school?"
Being chatty, lively and anxious can all be traits of ADHD though. And these could be more pronounced in a restrictive environment like school.
It may have already been looked into / ruled out but I would recommend the OP look into if not.
Last edited by watchcollector1; 9th February 2024 at 18:44.
I am aware of that. I was simply repeating what his dad had actually told us
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Thanks all,
I will be going with him on the coach tomorrow, and did get an apology from the school but it is too little, too late.
I know I am his dad and will love him unconditionally, but he is a sweet and good natured boy who has a wild imagination and is curious about everything and quite intuitive and intelligent. He can be a challenge but not in the sense he poses a danger, just that he is anxious and likes to know what is coming during the day and the week to allay his concerns and his reaction when anxious is to get a response, positive or negative. He tends to act childish and makes inappropriate and rude comments (non sexual) and always gets absolutely pilloried by the school who have an obsession with this sort of behavior.
It is likely that he is ADHD but this was ruled out a few years back but on a lay assessment, he presents with all the symptoms. His older brother is certainly ADHD but meds weren't always the answer with him and they can cause more harm than good unless you focus is on pure academic achievement and not overall wellbeing.
He's looking forward to a fresh start and we're trying to target a school that majors on nurturing and pupil wellbeing rather than laser focused on academic achievement. He will achieve, just not in the time and place they want him to but if he's not happy within himself then the outcome is much less certain.
He sounds exactly like I was, I’m really random in my imagination, curiosity and focus & find some situations very tough.
Online diagnosed but never taken it further, as I’ve done ok so far. Harder in the earlier years, but my boss has already said she knows I’m on the spectrum to a degree, friendly manner as she has a sister like it too.
I really hope you can both enjoy the trip tomorrow. Some of my happiest childhood memories were these trips, buying a baseball cap I’d never wear again, but being part of the school trip brigade.
Have fun
Sorry you went through this, I hope you have a brilliant time with your son tomorrow. I remember we went on a trip to York Railway museum when I was around 8-9 yrs old. I think approx 50 of us when, only 3 teachers and then around 7-8 parents, each split into little groups of 5 or so with an adult. Of course being a village school covering 5-6yrs age range with only 90 kids everyone knew everyone and knew everyone's parents. I doubt any checks made other than the head saying 'they're do well with this group of 5 kids' etc etc.
It is sad how things have changed over the years - I know with the terrible things that have happened they needed change but change is not always happy.
BTW I was one of 3 lads and 2 girls who were grouped with the headmaster as we were all known troublemakers - lovely bloke bought us all ice-creams!
Any have a fantastic day out, I really hope it is special for you for all the right reasons.
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