Reply With QuoteI read that as strongly implying that the car being sold is the actual one raced.
But it is vague enough that the seller could argue that he just meant that model of Saab.
In the Netherlands, a guy sells a 1957 Saab. The asking price is simply high and he has reasons for that (he thinks, he writes).
In 1957, Saab raced the Mille Miglia. Saab won its class with a two-stroke car. Fast forward, 2009 and 2010: the -then- CEO of Saab did both MM's in those years. The car he used, was not the original car. The original one was scrapped in 1968. (That fact is not in the sales ad). He did both stints in the replica now for sale.
But -and here we go- I find his sales ad very vague about that. He writes:
I read '...this particular SAAB...' and '... after its class victory in 1957'. Its (victory) is a reference word in Dutch grammar and refers to something written earlier the sentence: in this case, 'this particular SAAB'. Is that the same in the English language? With this sentence, the seller manipulate the reader to think that the replica he's trying to sell is the real deal, the one that raced in 1957. Or am I wrong? I won't comment 'guns blazing' on what he writes, but I want to be sure that my thoughts are correct and not blurred by translation difference from English to Dutch (in my head).The car's value is greatly affected by the fact that this particular SAAB was the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009 after its class victory in 1957.
Last edited by thieuster; 29th January 2024 at 10:10.
I read that as strongly implying that the car being sold is the actual one raced.
But it is vague enough that the seller could argue that he just meant that model of Saab.
It’s vague but I think if one was buying it you’d ask or know if it was the ‘actual’ car
I read that as the car in question was the first to complete the race after the marque’s victory in 1957.
He clearly states that, although a 1957 car, it’s the car that the CEO drove in 2009/10.
I agree that it’s a bit vague but I don’t think he is trying to confuse anyone.
"...this particular SAAB was the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009 after its class victory in 1957."
The sentence reads to me that the SAAB in question was the first SAAB to complete (i.e. finish) the 2009 race out of all the SAABs entered in the 2009 race, and that it won its class in 1957.
"A man of little significance"
In English it is implying that this car is the one that raced, maybe he has supporting evidence as to its provenance
Transposing the words into a similar situation where Paddy Hopkirk did the Monte Carlo Rally in 1994 with a modern 1275 Mini Cooper - I could read the text for the Saab either way:
this particular SAAB was the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009 after its class victory in 1957
this particular MINI was the first to complete the Monte Carlo in 1994 after its class victory in 1964/5/6
The grammar is not correct - but I would hope that the meaning is innocent rather than miss-leading.
Edit - everyone knew that the modern Rover Mini was a replica, maybe the seller also assumes that the SAAB history is well documented.
Last edited by Reeny; 29th January 2024 at 10:29.
It's ambiguous. Could mean that the car for sale was literally the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009. Or it could mean that it's merely an instance of the same model.
Thanks for all the comments.
Here's the complete text with the title '1957 Saab 93 Mille Miglia'
The Car is for Sale or Rent 2024!
The car has a total of 65, 000 km since new. It received a complete cosmetic and technical overhaul. The car has been sanded, primed and finished by professionals in Saab painting. Therefore, we can say that the car is in a better condition than NEW. Engine and gearbox are the original ones (matching numbers) and have been renovated and updated by specialist Bengt-Erik Strom, Trollhattan and Knutt Hoglund Sjuntorp. The 750cc engine is tuned by the 2-stroke supremo Bengt-Erik Ström, who was once an engine mechanic at the Saab Competition Department and formerly Eric Carlsson’s motor specialist. All mechanical components are thoroughly restored and updated (brake system, generator, fuel pump, starter motor, carburettor and cooling system). In addition to the original equipment, the car has been equipped with a Saab Original Sport steering wheel and a period correct trip master (halda) Both are considered exclusive and attractive accessories.
The car's value is greatly affected by the fact that this particular SAAB was the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009 after its class victory in 1957. The race was completed without any problems. In 2010, the car took part again. Meanwhile it was already admired by legendary people such as Victor Muller and Jan-Ake Jonsson. respectively CEO of SAAB Automobile at the time. Once again, the race was completed without any problems. The car's condition is also confirmed by the fact that it completed two races without breakdowns.
I got triggered by something I've learned here on TZ-UK to look out for when wanting to buy an expensive watch: Price on request, lots of words in the ad, with a questionalble content, name-dropping and, for this asking price, under par quality pictures of details. My attention was drawn to the posted asking price on a German site: 57,000 euros for a '57 car. Let's call this amusing.
God loves a trier. (I mean regarding the asking price)
Not native speaker here. My first thought, beyond the voluntary ambiguity, is that if it had been the car that won in 1957 he would have stated that first, before adding that it had subsequently completed the 2009 & 2010 MM.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That doesn't read like an advert written by a native English speaker, so I wouldn't read too much into the exact wording. If it's in the Netherlands you may be able to kind of back translate to what the seller was translating from in terms of equivalent words?
As SJ says, it would surely be a pretty big deal had it won in 1957 and that would be the headline not buried or mentioned after more recent wins?
It should have said...
The car's value is greatly affected by the fact that this particular model of SAAB was the first to complete the 1000Miglia in 2009 after its class victory in 1957.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Doesn't 'greatly affected' generally have a detrimental meaning? Stricken, upset, distressed?
I was greatly affected by the passing of so and so at such a young age?
It's slightly tricky wording, especially in translation, but I think "this SAAB" leans more to refering to a model, whereas if he had written "this vehicle" it would be clear that he means this actual chassis.
It's the sort of clever/devious wording a lawyer would come up with
Well, as a non native speaker, I'm proud to read that my conclusions are right. (Non native writer, information not too clear etc...)
Greatly impacted?
No bodywork on a car with 65,000km on the clock is better than new.
There is no mention of an engine gearbox overhaul following the races, so this quote is very amusing.
The car's condition is also confirmed by the fact that it completed two races without breakdowns.
With 2x 1,822km races without a breakdown, the car is shouting "I am ready to explode"
" ... professionals in Saab painting". Really? Plus, by ommission, I can only assume that it wasn't sanded by a professional in Saab sanding.
The owner of the car is not the seller. He has dropped the car at a showroom ('consignment sale' is the term I think). But the owner came online on the Dutch Saab Forum, guns blazing, throwing his toys out of the pram. A posting the size of Tolstoj's War and Peace but not so readable...
You guessed it: how did I dare to write so condescending about his car being for sale. And that it's not the real car, otherwise he would have stated it in the ad. And that the price is only a fraction of the cost of a restoration. "Do you have any idea what restoring a car costs?" [Hmmm, yes I do]. It went on and on. Speaking about condiscending.
And oh, no one has ever commented on his English.
I am not going to write an answer to that man's answer. Someone else has done that for me in only a few words (translated): "As a lawyer, I suggest that you change the content of your sales ad!"
Last edited by thieuster; 30th January 2024 at 09:17.
Repair bills can mount up. It is not the responsibility of the next owner to cover the sellers costs.
As far as the sale goes, he may have burnt his bridges now anyway.
Last edited by Reeny; 30th January 2024 at 09:52.
Posting Permissions
