Reply With Quotejust depends on the form factor of his current case and if the current PSU has the power to run the new board /chip/graphics card
My 16yr old son is pestering to upgrade his PC - currently running Windows 10.
He has an i7 (but it is an early processor and motherboard), however it also has a brand new quite high-end graphics card, new power supply, SSD, ram etc.
He is convinced that he can buy a new generation motherboard and processor and just remove the existing ones and put a new motherboard with processor in.
My knowledge on this is years old, is he right? It sounds too straightforward to me and I'm skeptical.
What could be the problems?
Last time he did a "no hassle Dad I promise" upgrade it ended up costing me £230...
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 20th January 2024 at 17:54.
So clever my foot fell off.
just depends on the form factor of his current case and if the current PSU has the power to run the new board /chip/graphics card
Which early i7 is he running, 2600k?
Depending on the generational leap, or if he goes AMD, you might have to upgrade the RAM, too.
It depends on if the new motherboard has a compatible CPU socket type. Same with RAM sockets, though less likely to be an issue - he's probably DDR4, so just ensure they're not DDR5 sockets on the new one.
Edit: sorry, I see he's getting a new CPU too. RAM check still needed then.
Edit 2: What's his rationale for the change? Is he sure the processor is the bottle neck, if there even is one? Lots of spec checkers online that compare against the use including specific games, screen resolution, graphics setting within games etc. to see what may be the limiting factor.
Edit 3: if he has a unlocked (k) processor, he could always look into over clocking...
Last edited by hughtrimble; 20th January 2024 at 18:36.
Thanks for the responses so far! Apparently the issue is CPU intensive games struggle, games that use mainly the graphics card there’s no problem.
Personally I’m not totally convinced but they all seem obsessed with frame rates and overall speed these days when playing online…
If he upgrades he is paying this time, not me!
So clever my foot fell off.
Yes, 2600 I believe. He’s talking about upgrading to a modern i3.Originally Posted by mutanthands
So clever my foot fell off.
This is what he is looking at:
ASUS Prime H610M-K D4 Intel H610 (LGA 1700) mic-ATX motherboard with DDR4, PCIe 4.0, M.2 slot, Realtek 1 Gb Ethernet, HDMI, D-Sub,USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports, SATA 6 Gbps, COM header, RGB header
And
Intel® Core™ i3-12100F Desktop Processor 12M Cache, up to 4.30 GHz
So clever my foot fell off.
As others have said, he needs to ensure the new motherboard and processor are compatible. Given that he/you are talking i7, I’ll assume he’s only considering Intel processors. As an aside, i9 chips have been available for a few years. It’s highly unlikely that changing these items will be an issue for the power supply but worth a quick check. I wouldn’t be too concerned about RAM; new motherboards will tend to take DDR5 and RAM is the cheap bit in this equation depending on how much he feels he needs/wants.
I’m not a gamer but have built plenty of machines for friends over the years including one stupidly expensive gaming PC around 7 or 8 years ago.
If he already has DDR4 memory, then you can get motherboards for the current gen CPUs that take DDR4 instead of DDR5, so he would be able to reuse his memory. There does not seem to be much of a performance benefit for DDR5 anyway. If he needs to replace the memory, make sure to get two identical modules, e.g. 2 x 8GB or 2 x 16GB, and get a motherboard with 4 memory slots. This will mean he could easily double the memory later if desired.
He may need a new CPU cooler, if his current cooler is not compatible with the CPU slot of the new motherboard.
Double check that the PSU has sufficient wattage to support the new build.
Look for a motherboard with a NVMe slot - this is a much faster SSD slot that the original SATA interface. The motherboard is very likely to also have SATA interface anyway, if the current SSD is SATA. A NVMe slot as well will give more future proofing.
You can save a little bit of money on the Intel CPU if you buy one that is designated as “KF”. Modern Intel CPUs are manufactured with integrated graphics, but sometimes this part of the chip fails QA, so Intel disable the integrated graphics and sell it slightly cheaper, as a KF. As your son has a dedicated GPU he won’t normally use the integrated graphics on the CPU anyway. They can be useful in the unlikely event that the GPU fails totally, in which case with integrated graphics he would still be able to boot the PC. My CPU is KF; if my GPU ever fails then I will do without my PC for a few days until I upgrade to new GPU.
If he has not done so already, I recommend your son make a list/spreadsheet of all the components in his PC - make, model etc, and keeps it updated whenever he adds something new to it, including the price and date. PC gaming is not just about the games, there is also a lot of fun to be had in upgrading over time, money permitting.
I'm lost at the first hurdle. Just take my credit card to make it go away :-/
When I see Pc- upgrade and gaming in one sentence moneypit springs to mind
Some truly excellent advice here - thank you all who have contributed and some of you who have taken quite a bit of time to really help out.
Is the motherboard and CPU I posted above going to be up to the spec of what he really needs? It will be running in conjuction with this graphics card he got for Christmas:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09YHWCN...roduct_details
So clever my foot fell off.
Selection looks good. An M.2 drive would be, ahem, game changing.
Edit: what game(s) does he play, as that is relevant?
Last edited by hogthrob; 20th January 2024 at 22:08.
Some things about that ASUS PRIME H610M-K D4:
It supports both 12th generation (Alder Lake) and 13th generation (Raptor Lake) CPUs. The CPU he is getting is 12th generation, so the motherboard has some upgrade capacity to go to 13th generation later. This may require upgrading the BIOS which is a good idea anyway when he installs the motherboard, as it will probably come with an older BIOS version. Check on the ASUS web site for BIOS firmware upgrades.
The GPU is PCI 4 x 8, which will work fine with the motherboard as it has a PCI 4 x 16 slot. So the motherboard could support a more powerful PCI 4 x 16 GPU.
It is the smaller micro ATX form factor (size), which is what he needs if he has a smaller case, e.g. is the old motherboard also microATX? Just note that microATX can get very cramped, especially with larger GPUs. If the case will take the larger ATX size motherboard I would prefer that.
It has Ethernet but no WI-FI, which means he will need to run an Ethernet cable from the back of his router to the PC, unless he installs an internal WI-FI PCIe card, or plug in an external WI-FI USB adapter.
The motherboard only has two expansion slots. One will have the GPU in it; if he has a WI-FI card, that would use the other slot, leaving no slots free for expansion in future, which would probably be OK.
The motherboard only has 2 DDR4 memory slots. This is OK if he currently only has 2 DDR4 memory modules, otherwise he will probably need to buy some memory.
The motherboard supports M.2 storage which is good, but if you use it then you lose one of the 4 SATA interfaces.
The Intel® Core™ i3-12100F Desktop Processor has the F designator, which means it is has no integrated graphics (which he doesn’t need anyway as he has a GPU), and it cannot be over-clocked, which he might be aware of, or might not care about. Over-clocking is relatively simple these days, by tweaking settings in the BIOS, and gives a performance boost, but would cost about another £30 for the CPU.
He will need a CPU cooler that is socket LGA1700 compatible - check his existing one. If he needs to buy one, then Noctua are very good for air coolers.
Last edited by Tatters; 21st January 2024 at 08:40.
Thanks so much for this Tatters et al.
Would he be better off saving up a few more pennies and going for an i5 for example? And if so, what would be a good motherboard?
He is doing this on a tight budget though, as I'm not prepared to continuously put my hand in my pocket!
So clever my foot fell off.
It has certainly got more confusing over the years & with me spending less time around PCs. Probably for the best as it does seem like a potential money pit.
I’m lucky with the PS5 as cannot spot the difference between frame rate vs graphics mode when racing.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The thing you will find with PCs, especially gaming PCs, it can become a life-long hobby (30 years plus for me!), and there is always something better you could upgrade to.
The PRIME H610M-K D4 is fairly budget priced, but it will support both Alder Lake (12th generation) and Raptor Lake (13th generation) Intel CPUs. Raptor Lake is the latest generation. However, this motherboard is quite limited as it uses the Intel H610M chipset, e.g., no CPU overclocking, no memory overclocking, only two memory channels, limited number of SATAs, limited number of USB ports etc. The lack of overclocking for a gaming PC is quite a restriction. You get what you pay for!
The Intel i3-12100F CPU your son has suggested, is 12th gen and can't be overclocked, and has no integrated graphics, and a relatively low clock speed, hence the relatively low price. But it is only one generation behind the latest, which is reasonable for a budget build, and the motherboard will support replacing it with a faster, Raptor Lake CPU later, when money permits - hopefully your son will be able to contribute himself by then! Also, second-hand CPUs are very saleable - I would expect to get at least 50% of my money back re-selling that CPU on eBay in a few years time.
You can get more performance via overclocking, depending on the Intel chipset of the motherboard. The H610M chipset in the PRIME H610M-K D4 has no overclocking at all. The B760 chipset supports memory overlocking (XMP Profile), whilst the Z690 and Z790 chipsets support both CPU and memory overclocking. Performance gains from just memory overclocking are probably marginal; CPU overclocking is more significant. Generally you will see the chipset name in the name of the motherboard itself. B760 motherboards start at around £120, whilst Z690/Z790 motherboards are £200+. A more expensive motherboard now will give you more future proofing, but would be a big jump in your budget. Whatever you get, you definitely want a LGA1700 socket.
To summarise, you could stick with the original plan of PRIME H610M-K D4 motherboard and Intel i3-12100F CPU, which are a good match as neither can be overclocked, and are budget priced. Then later you could upgrade the CPU to a Raptor Lake which will give a performance boost, using the same motherboard. Or you could spend a lot more now on the motherboard to get better performance now with the same CPU, and still be able to upgrade the CPU later for even more performance.
To give you an idea of the commitment, from my records I see that I upgrade my motherboard about every 5 years, and the CPU and GPU every 3-4 years. So the sooner you can get your son to pay for it the better!
I usually buy all my PC stuff from Overclockers UK (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/); they have competitive pricing, and have a wide selection of PC components, including LGA1700 motherboards and Intel CPUs. You can sign up to their forums https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/, where you can get some really expert advice from members.
Create the build in https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/ and it will verify the compatibility and generally show you the cheapest prices or thereabouts. Plus you can list other people's build using said parts to get an idea if they are a goer or not. At the end of the day you are trying to create a balanced system with no one bottleneck for the games you want to play. Monitor resolution and frame rate desired will have the biggest impact on the rest of the components - CPU, GPU and ram.
I don't know anymore, but I know mine is an i5 board and I have no problems running my older games. Some going on 5 years old
Question is. Does he need it or only wants it because others have or feels it necessary to play newer games.
All games should list the minimum required on the back of boxes,, but some games are now downloads, so might have to check on line
Found this
In addition to a great graphics card, a decent gaming PC should have at least 8 GB of RAM, 1080p HD or 4K display resolution and a fast processor. AMD Ryzen or Intel Core i5/i7 processors are common in the best gaming PC options.
Lot of games recommend a minimum of i5 (some i7), but recommend i7 which your son already has. No game recommended anything higher
Sounds like more or of a want rather than need..
Suggestion. Join a gaming forum and ask whats really needed to play.
32GB (2 x 16GB) starts from about £60, so that's the default in my mind.
I used to bauk at this, primarily because so few games use anything close to this. But, when you consider you might have a web browser open, Discord, some other applications, and the generally terrible RAM usage by Windows, it's nice to have the extra overhead.
I remember the COVID days where RAM was hideously expensive...now 32 GB is rather more achievable.
Might be worth understanding the driver behind the upgrade as well?
One of my gaming mad brothers plays online games, for him the ping is a critical factor, so look at the network the PC is connected to, and how (Ethernet or wireless), as well.
I mention this as lots of people having a poor online gaming experience chase the hardware upgrade route, when the problem is packet delays to and from the game servers.
If he’s not online gaming, then please ignore! :-)
I can see sense in upgrading the motherboard and CPU if the setup is CPU limited in some way, have a look at a bottleneck checker like this one to see if CPU or GPU are balanced.
https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator/
Excellent stuff, again, and I am realising it is not very straightforward anymore!
What would be the budget version of a motherboard and i5 processor you would consider?
So clever my foot fell off.
Before you get carried away and spend a fortune, have a chat with your son and find out what he really wants to accomplish. Is he in a frame rate / benchmark peeing contest with his friends? Is he experiencing game breaking stuttering that is definitely caused by the CPU? What game(s) are the problem? Is his new GFX card not giving him the improvements he hoped for?
Another thing to bear in mind is upgradability. Intel on average release a new CPU socket design about every three years. The next iteration LGA 1851, is expected late this year, and LGA 1700 CPUs will not be compatible. I took the view a couple of years ago that CPU and motherboard would in the future always be replaced together. In other words, don't rate upgradability too high in the list of buying devision priorites unless the next upgrade is going to be within say 18 months.
This is a great idea. I have never used them myself but I have heard good things.
Minimum and recommended specifications should be taken with a pinch of salt - for me they are usually too low. A lot depends on your preferred resolution and FPS. I think 8GB RAM is definitely too low, you want 16 or preferably 32. Also there have been many i5/i7 generations, going back to 2008. I think the OP said his son has an older generation i7. The performance difference between generations is a lot.
I don’t think someone on a budget should be chasing the next CPU iteration, far from it, current or previous generation offers more bang for your buck. Also, when LGA1851 releases, then there will probably be a price drop for LGA1700, at which point you can upgrade your budget LGA1700 which you have bought now. E.g. an upgrade to a faster LGA1700 in two years time, and sell the current one second hand for a fair price so the upgrade needn’t be too expensive.
I think you should consider the budget motherboard and processor that your son has already picked out, but I personally would not buy budget. I probably have more money than sense. I think reecie’s suggestion to use pcpartpicker to be a good starting point. They have an entry level Intel gaming build which is similar to your son’s current choice, with a better CPU and motherboard.
Last edited by Tatters; 22nd January 2024 at 11:47.
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