Reply With QuoteI wonder how many they will call before they find a buyer …
Surely no profit in it for the flippers any more.
WOS Brent Cross phoned me this morning offering the Explorer ll (black dial) which I expressed the interest in last year. Declined as no longer interested in the brand but seems ze list is shortening…
I wonder how many they will call before they find a buyer …
Surely no profit in it for the flippers any more.
I get the impression from speaking to a few people that on the precious-metals and bimetal side, they wish they'd kept the list open as they're running out of people to try and flog stuff too
RIAC
Originally Posted by Montello
I mentioned this before - my Brother-in-law got a Pespi GMT from Goldsmiths recently - never spent a penny with them previous. Went in and asked and they rang him in about ten weeks. They let slip that the previous two people they asked declined when offered and so it was offered to him.
Last edited by Alansmithee; 19th January 2024 at 15:27.
Just curious why it took 10 weeks for the call then if they had one they were calling ‘list’ customers about. Would they not have it there at the time? And I’m pretty sure the list is longer than two people isn’t it. Everything I’ve been led to believe is this is the hot watch still and theoretical list sizes are 50 plus. He must have been wearing his lucky pants.
No idea - that's the timescale and what they told him - I know he's got the watch because I tried it on. My thoughts are is that this all a bit more random than people think...
sounds a bit like "waiting lists" for an NHS dentist.....I know about that & I bet that in most cases there aren't any. I know that we don't. IF we take anybody new on, it's selective.
When you call someone you have to wait for them to pop in which may not be immediately but most AD's will allow a reasonable timeframe as they know people work etc so until they formally decline or take too long you cant start the process again but in its hayday a week was the max. Now itll be longer and often a resupply wont occur till stocks are cleared so Rolex know whats moving and whats not
RIAC
My friend was offered black face one and didn’t return the call and then offered another a month later. He has zero history with the AD. So there is some movement in lists.
The trading statement for WoS refered to the EOI lists, this would need to be accurate statement for the markets.
Lists seem to be shortening all round, the way the people at my local branch of Goldsmiths talked about ze listz they have it seemed like they were going that way, and for brands other than Rolex that means having previously difficult-to-get models starting to sit around in display cabinets.
I had a casual conversation with a sales assistant at Goldsmiths in Newcastle just before Christmas and he was still quoting 5years for a Submariner. He then started to push their pre owned Subs, which explained the exaggerated waiting list times.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Surprised there were only 3 people on the list. I expressed my interest when they came out (2017?) and have heard nothing despite some modest history.
I’ve assumed that, for the last few years, lists included significant numbers of people only interested in flipping. Once the guaranteed easy profit goes, so the lists will shorten. Whether they’re short enough for mere mortals like me is another question. Be rather nice to be able to get the call and tell them to shove it!!
No idea how many actually on list just that two in front of him who declined.
Thinking about it - maybe we have this back to front. If you are a rube who has already demonstrate that you will spend significant money in *hope* of getting one, then surely it is in their interest to get you hanging on where as if you plan only to buy that and nothing else and don't actually care that much - well might as well sell you one when available?
If it turns out that I gave oral pleasure to the sales manager at my AD for nothing, I'm going to be a bit ticked off.
Had a similar call a few weeks back, for a black dial explorer 2, I turned it down.
Whenever they call me they always want a deposit that day if you want the watch.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Didn't you really want one then?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
To be fair the Explorers and Yachtmasters have never been that popular compared to subs n gmts etc, so its no surprise they're offering those... When we start seeing discounted Sub LVs and BLNRs etc on chrono24 then we can definitely say things have changed...
Which can be refunded as you have not seen the goods so those required to often pay it then ring round trying to sell it before either collecting or trying on and saying ‘not for me but thank you’ if they can’t guarantee at least £250 profit
RIAC
Sad way to live if you ask me.
If demand for Rolexes is down I'm going to stop pretending I'm a sales manager at Rolex ADs
I’ve only ever bought something I actually wanted. Don’t have the money or inclination to try and buy “favours”. The whole nonsense has turned me off.
Where’s my Daytona you *******!!!If demand for Rolexes is down I'm going to stop pretending I'm a sales manager at Rolex ADs
No longer interested in 'the brand'..........................
Gonna guess: "Interested when they held their value............."
Watchfinder advertising “up to £2,000” off “all Rolex watches”. Has that happened in the recent past?
Well I suppose it all comes down to why you wanted one. I’ve only ever asked for watches I wanted to buy and wear. If the grifters are bottling it then it just helps people like me buy watches they want.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yeah up to…. Think you had to spend £30k to get £2k off…. Much more modest reductions if you spend £10k
Right place right time.
It happens and I know a friend that got one in a similar situation but it's not the norm.
They haven’t lost £11.7million in a single year before.
They may lose more in the current one.
I will be playing the world’s smallest violin!!
Gross margin down to 10%. Difficult to imagine 2024 will be better.
Last edited by David_D; 20th January 2024 at 00:32.
Wouldn't expect them to lose more given their reducing stock levels but it would be interesting to see their trading figures broken down by brand.
The tide comes in the tide goes out.
I think being part of the Richemont Group will (should) provide a comfortable umbrella to shelter beneath.
https://www.richemont.com/news-media...xchange-rates/
Last edited by TKH; 20th January 2024 at 10:26.
I got a call yesterday offering me an explorer 40mm. I declined as the last time I was in there I asked for a 36mm version.
Not sure that helps. Point is they lost nearly £12 for every £100 turnover and that includes a period for much of which the market was still very bouyant. Maybe mass marketing premium watches isn’t a long term business model?!
Agree its a very poor result
But i imagine they have aggressively written down stock values at year end to NRV
A chunky loss to offset for a while against CT.
There are many others that will also have overpaid for stock and refuse to budge on price and be unrealistic about what their inventory is really worth in todays money and their stock will age and become stale and lack of circulation of funds will eventually finish them off.
Many will be in that joyous phase of sitting down with Accountants and Auditors and having a battle of write downs some may convince the Senior auditor the book values are fine some may be told to write down hard which will affect balance sheet reserves and as such banking covenants etc.
Some will be having challenging conversations with main stream lenders others even more challenging with other types of backers.
My point was there are those who can take the hit and those who can’t, I’m no WF fan but think they are better placed than many to weather the storm given their Richemont umbrella and seemingly Richemont need them to err assist in liquidating some pieces from their own stables.
But the job has changed just as it has with cars were now back to buying things that historically depreciated that we buy to enjoy and more critically the supply demand ratio is shifting on many discretionary goods.
What will be interesting is if manufacturers choose to dial down production further whilst simultaneously increasing prices and cutting out the middle man to retain more profit for themselves.
“they wouldn’t do that would they” ?
Last edited by TKH; 21st January 2024 at 08:02.
Really interesting with regards to WF. Have had a quick browse of the accounts.
They wrote of £3m of stock in 2023. GM is therefore 10%. Would have been closer to 13% without the write off.
In 2022 GM was 16%, there was also a smaller write off of c. £800k in 2022...margin may have been around 15% otherwise.
Quite the change in margin, even without the write offs of stock. A few years back it was around 17-18% generally.
Part of this may also have something to do with the new model of selling for others and becoming a platform, but more signfiicantly it is just likely them getting stung as the market changes.
If part of the business plan was to make the watches seem so much more desirable/valued because you couldnt buy one over the counter.
Well it worked for a period,but now some people are turning them down new and others are selling,thinking the watch they bought as an investment is loosing value.
Unless of course SC is its own little micro watch climate.
No other watch brands owners are so obsessed with money as this one.
"Cash raising exercise" give me a break,it is like calling takeaway food street food.
Last edited by bwest76; 21st January 2024 at 12:15.
If people are turning them down and selling perhaps those who genuinely wanted them to wear will have a chance.
As for 'No other watch brands owners are so obsessed with money as this one.', really? Do you honestly think other watch brands owners are doing it out of some sense of charity or community spirit and aren't worried about profits?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Might be more accurate to say no other watch brand has proved so effective in extracting money from its customers? I am sure all large watch companies are exactly the same in their intentions i.e. to amass as much cash as they possibly can from selling their watches. Rolex have just had a different - and maybe more successful? - approach to that objective.
popped into local AD with BLNR for service and Sea Dweller for warranty as losing time. Was also wearing another so hopefully clear that i'm not a flipper
Have no history with them but after a brief chat I was encouraged to put my name down after saying I'd been after something for 4 years and never had a call from WoS.
Really friendly service too; hopefully something comes of it.
Goldsmiths Reading? They love a chat and are really positive but never had a call...even for mundane OPs that my parents in law want.
yep. They seemed quite keen, but as you mentioned they love a chat but had never previously encouraged
When I was informed about my Pepsi I was instructed, yes instructed to come in the same day or it would go to someone else.
Parents in law sorted through Mallory in Bath, so called them today to remove my interest in 36 & 41mm OP and added to the list for the LV Sub has been confirmed.
They’re a good bunch in there that do like to chat watches and enjoy people who share our passion. Some dealers don’t know a lot about older models vs the modern ones they’re trained to sell.
Bit like old school M cars, some BMW garages / technicians know very little about what isn’t current I guess.
2.5 years until the big 50, so just need several hundred people to not want one in that time frame.
To be fair to Goldsmiths Reading they got me a Sub date within about two weeks back in 2017. Then a DJ 41 in about two months in 2022.
But the lady I usually dealt with had left the last time I was in there. The dude I spoke to wouldn’t put me down for a Pepsi as the list was closed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.ft.com/content/0fc667c3-...3-b07d45fa804f
Not sure if this was posted before. Read it a few days ago
Might need to google the arrival name rather than the link as it is avalibe free
Sent from my iPhone using Tapat
Last edited by UMBROSUS; 25th January 2024 at 16:12.
Was the lady's name Adriana?
Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk
Yeah I believe it was. Dark hair, pretty 8-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
