CW Sellors refusing refund

[Linc]

I bought a piece from CW Sellors (£1300) I didn’t connect with it and returned it.

The watch was never worn by me and didn’t even leave the box. However CW Sellors are refusing a refund claiming it shows signs of wear.

Any ideas what to do about this?


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[Alansmithee]

I bought a piece from CW Sellors (£1300) I didn’t connect with it and returned it.

The watch was never worn by me and didn’t even leave the box. However CW Sellors are refusing a refund claiming it shows signs of wear.

Any ideas what to do about this?


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Don't waste your time with customers services anymore - at this point, I always move to a letter before action - the majority of cases I have never had to go any further and anything where I have had to file, they have folded immediately. It's a while ago but I'm sure that it was Sellors who tried to up the price on a watch I'd pre-paid for and I went this route to get them to back off. As long as you informed them of the return quickly enough (and you bought online?), you wish to enforce your unqualified right to inspect and reject goods under the consumer contracts regulations. Something like:

Write to:

Legal department
C.W. SELLORS (GOLD AND SILVERSMITHS) LIMITED
King Street, Ashbourne, Derbyshire, DE6 1EA



[Your address]

[Supplier's address]

Dear

Reference: Return of item as per the consumer contracts regulations.

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

[explain what has happened - bullet it with dates and what happened when you returned]

From you I am claiming [your £1300]

I have calculated this sum [because it's a refund of what you paid]

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

[Basically all the contract information you have plus any emails where they will not honour the return]


In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:

[Any emails where they discuss your return internally]

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.

I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days. Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.


Yours faithfully,

[sickie]

Without pictures as proof of how you received it it's a bit hard to say. I am surprised tho, I bought a grey longines HydroConquest chronograph from them about a year ago but didn't check it until a day after it arrived, it had a dirty big scratch on one's side of the case so I returned it.

They didn't bat an eyelid, just refunded me without issue.

Maybe speak to consumers advice and see what your opinions are, or if you paid by credit card speak to your bank.


Sent from a technical device

[hughtrimble]

They do not have a great reputation on here: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...hlight=Sellors

Lots of issues around actually receiving refunds etc.

I hope you can resolve your situation more quickly than some of the other forum members.

[J3w3ll3r]

Deleted.

[ryanb741]

There's usually plastic wrap around the watch with a sticker saying non returnable if seal broken.

[Linc]

There's usually plastic wrap around the watch with a sticker saying non returnable if seal broken.

I’ve seen those on other watches, but this one didn’t have it. Had plastic wrap around bracelet which was peeling off, so imagine it was peeled off and reapplied at some point.


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[Linc]

Don't waste your time with customers services anymore - at this point, I always move to a letter before action - the majority of cases I have never had to go any further and anything where I have had to file, they have folded immediately. It's a while ago but I'm sure that it was Sellors who tried to up the price on a watch I'd pre-paid for and I went this route to get them to back off. As long as you informed them of the return quickly enough (and you bought online?), you wish to enforce your unqualified right to inspect and reject goods under the consumer contracts regulations. Something like:

Write to:

Legal department
C.W. SELLORS (GOLD AND SILVERSMITHS) LIMITED
King Street, Ashbourne, Derbyshire, DE6 1EA



[Your address]

[Supplier's address]

Dear

Reference: Return of item as per the consumer contracts regulations.

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

[explain what has happened - bullet it with dates and what happened when you returned]

From you I am claiming [your £1300]

I have calculated this sum [because it's a refund of what you paid]

Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

[Basically all the contract information you have plus any emails where they will not honour the return]


In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:

[Any emails where they discuss your return internally]

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts.

I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days. Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.


Yours faithfully,

Thanks for this. Will use as last resort.


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[Saint-Just]

Thanks for this. Will use as last resort.

No. Alan is right, don’t waste any time. You’re giving them 28 days anyway, during which you can play nice but their solicitors will know the clock is ticking.
Unless you believe they have a leg to stand on (watch damaged, but you said no).

[stevecross]

Had the same issue a couple of years ago, in the end I found the email address of the owner and emailed him. Low and behold I receive a phone call from the shop apologising and the refund then happened, very poor service but if you read the reviews it is renowned for bad customer service.

[wileeeeeey]

Thanks for this. Will use as last resort.


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This is going to be the best advice on the thread. I would be sending tomorrow morning.

[paw3001]

Can’t say I have ever had a problem with them but then I have never had to return a watch but the advice you received above regarding the letter template is the best option to activate now.

You have already spoken to them and they have said no. I would have to prove that you altered (adjusted a bracelet for example) or wore the watch. If it was a display model then even harder for them to make that claim.

Good luck and please keep us all updated.

[awright101]

Sorry to hear your experience with Sellors but appreciate the heads up. I certainly won’t be using them

[Montello]

How can you evaluate a new watch without at least taking it out of the box and trying it on?

[Onelasttime]

I received a watch from them that was clearly worn and scratched. Sent it back and had to fight for a month for the refund.

Another time they sent me two watches instead of one by mistake. I got in touch with them to return both and was told postage was only refundable on one, so I said I’d keep the watch they sent by mistake until they posted a paid-for return box. They insisted I was liable for postage charges so I said thanks for the free watch. Two days later they agreed to waive all postage.

I haven’t used them since.

[wileeeeeey]

I received a watch from them that was clearly worn and scratched. Sent it back and had to fight for a month for the refund.

Another time they sent me two watches instead of one by mistake. I got in touch with them to return both and was told postage was only refundable on one, so I said I’d keep the watch they sent by mistake until they posted a paid-for return box. They insisted I was liable for postage charges so I said thanks for the free watch. Two days later they agreed to waive all postage.

I haven’t used them since.

What a clown show

[A440]

Interesting. I was thinking of buying a rather expensive watch from them. Will reconsider that after reading this.

[Boss13]

I received a watch from them that was clearly worn and scratched. Sent it back and had to fight for a month for the refund.

Another time they sent me two watches instead of one by mistake. I got in touch with them to return both and was told postage was only refundable on one, so I said I’d keep the watch they sent by mistake until they posted a paid-for return box. They insisted I was liable for postage charges so I said thanks for the free watch. Two days later they agreed to waive all postage.

I haven’t used them since.

That’s unbelievable. Serves you right for being so honest.

Good luck OP. Looks like you have a great template letter there to use.

[KavKav]

I received a watch from them that was clearly worn and scratched. Sent it back and had to fight for a month for the refund.

Another time they sent me two watches instead of one by mistake. I got in touch with them to return both and was told postage was only refundable on one, so I said I’d keep the watch they sent by mistake until they posted a paid-for return box. They insisted I was liable for postage charges so I said thanks for the free watch. Two days later they agreed to waive all postage.

I haven’t used them since.

Jeeze, you would think these clowns would be grateful to you for your honesty in highlighting their error rather than petty quibbling about the return postage costs!

[catch21]

It’s good to know who it’s worth dealing with. Hope you get it sorted soon.

[higham5]

This is going to be the best advice on the thread. I would be sending tomorrow morning.

This ^^^^^^^ unfortunately, its clear from this short thread Sellors have form for this type of behaviour. Forget last resort, act now, nothing lost as I would be surprised if you were trying to build a relationship with them for future business.

[TheGent]

I received a watch from them that was clearly worn and scratched. Sent it back and had to fight for a month for the refund.

I had a very similar experience. Bought a watch, spotted a defect on the case in the machining between the lugs. Phoned them and explained - they were very helpful, told me to follow the returns process, which I did. Which is where it all started to unravel. They received it back and sent me this email:

“Our returns team have looked at your item and deduced the mark you are referring to is a part of the watches finish not damage. We would be happy to return the item to you.”

I said “no thanks, just a refund”.

Radio silence.

Several phone calls and emails with verbal promises of a refund that never materialised.

It took days of hounding before they finally sent an email (albeit after their closing time?) to say I would be refunded within 5-10 days. Which did come through.

Definitely couldn’t recommend them and will never deal with them again.

(I should probably add this to the other thread linked above).

[Harryb]

This thread is certainly illuminating. I’ll be steering clear of them.

[TH14TH14]

Sorry to hear this and hope you get it sorted. I'm not surprised - they have a bad reputation for customer service. I've not received damaged watches from them but have had to return watches for other reasons. On both occasions it took ages for them to process the refund. They featured in a Scottish Watches podcast episode a few months ago - they discussed a few accounts of them selling watches that were listed as being in stock but they didn't actually have. If you can be bothered, it might be worth contacting the podcast - they've mentioned them a few times and I think would be interested to hear this. I think SW contacted the owner to try to help a listener resolve their issue.

[helidoc]

Not a return issue, but they took money for a watch they said was in stock and allocated to me, then suddenly it wasn’t . They were still advertising it as last one remaining at full price. 2 weeks to get my money back. I wouldn’t deal with them.

D


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[higham5]

Sellors Facebook page has at least two customers so far this year that have moved to posting negative experiences, both criticising customer service.

[reggie747]

A good few years back, I spunked up around 3 grand for a Grand Seiko they had.
I waited longer than I liked then contacted them to be told the item was not available.
"Ok, but thanks for letting me know (not) and I'd like my cash back"
Took 14+days for that to happen.

[Fullbreakfast]

The tales of shoddy behaviour on this thread would certainly give me pause before dealing with them.

[nitram]

I had a problem with them after paying for 2 watches after speaking to sales rep.

Only one watch arrived but invoice for two.

Immediatly contacted and they said other watch being ordered.

Explained that not good customer service to not tell customer. If they had explained that one not in stock but can order, probably would have been acceptable.

Asked to cancel other watch and refund but it took quite a while.

I had previously bought quite a few watches from them, but the poor customer communications puts me off buying from them again.

Sounds like its a common issue and not a good sign.

[emgee]

Not just Sellors; I’ve experienced delays in getting a refund from a few retailers of various goods; needless to say that once refunded they go on the Do Not Use list


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[earlofsodbury]

Thing is, a lot of this is obviously company policy.* Presumably a few people just go away and give up, meaning Sellors save a few quid here-and-there. Compare that with how many potential customers will read this thread (and the many others like it) and blacklist Sellors and Jura (same company) for good. I'm one of them, for example.

The lost business must surely outweigh the savings from messing customers about?




* Laziness, stupidity and incompetence must also be involved sometimes, of course!

[Slevin Kelevra]

Thanks for the information. Definitely wont deal with this lot in the future.

[Fullbreakfast]

The lost business must surely outweigh the savings from messing customers about?

Probably does, but it's sort of invisible to them, as they've no way of knowing when someone who might have bought a watch from them goes and buys it elsewhere. Whereas they can readily count the shekels made by shafting their customers.

Very short-sighted of them, but it's not so uncommon for businesses to do things that will predictably alienate their actual and potential customers in search of a quick buck. Depressingly common, in fact.

[nitram]

Sellors and Jura seem to be part of same group.

Does anyone know what the difference is apart from physical locations?

[Bonzodog]

Sellors and Jura seem to be part of same group.

Does anyone know what the difference is apart from physical locations?

Same 💩 different bucket

[Linc]

Well, Sellors still refusing after sending letter plus multiple emails. I wish I checked reviews before ordering from these charlatans. 2.9 on trust pilot. Multiple people complaining of exact same issue where Sellors have denied refunds claiming wear. Not sure what next step. Chargeback?


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[TheGent]

Well, Sellors still refusing after sending letter plus multiple emails. I wish I checked reviews before ordering from these charlatans. 2.9 on trust pilot. Multiple people complaining of exact same issue where Sellors have denied refunds claiming wear. Not sure what next step. Chargeback?


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Did you buy it with a credit card? I would approach the credit card company to fight your corner if you did.

[Fullbreakfast]

Did you buy it with a credit card? I would approach the credit card company to fight your corner if you did.

The thing to do is tell them you want to make a recharge under s75 of the Consumer Credit Act:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...t-aZCUb9i8Kwfa

and they will know exactly what you mean. I did this when a furniture company I had bought an expensive armchair from went bust before sending me the goods, and I got my money back pretty much painlessly.

CW Sellors may be tough guys with their customers, but as soon as Visa or Amex are on their balls because they've had to refund the payment you can bet it will be a different story.

[RLE]

p

CW Sellors may be tough guys with their customers, but as soon as Visa or Amex are on their balls because they've had to refund the payment you can bet it will be a different story.

Agree. Merchants usually invoke a penalty fee if a chargeback is agreed and a transaction reversed, so it really is in their best interest to resolve quickly.

[prexelor]

I would go via your credit card / debit card. Take screenshots of website listing if it is still there, photographs of watch etc, so it will be ready to send as part of your chargeback claim.

[Linc]

I actually made the purchase using PayPal credit. I was under the impression you would have the same rights as paying using a credit card. I’ll be calling them shortly to initiate a dispute.


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[Fullbreakfast]

I actually made the purchase using PayPal credit. I was under the impression you would have the same rights as paying using a credit card. I’ll be calling them shortly to initiate a dispute.

I don't think you have the same statutory rights under the CCA as you do with a direct credit card payment, but I think they are quite good in these situations. Only through report though, not personal experience.

[Alansmithee]

I actually made the purchase using PayPal credit. I was under the impression you would have the same rights as paying using a credit card. I’ll be calling them shortly to initiate a dispute.


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Just do it online immediately.

[noTAGlove]

I actually made the purchase using PayPal credit. I was under the impression you would have the same rights as paying using a credit card. I’ll be calling them shortly to initiate a dispute.


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This is a big downside of using PayPal, and one reason I don’t use it for general purchases, and you lose access to section 75 of the consumer credit act making the credit card company joint and severally responsible.

You are now under Paypals T&Cs.

Another point, maybe not related to this case is that Paypals T&Cs expire more quickly than section 75.

Section 75 is very good. I would never use Paypal in lieu of it.

[bwest76]

PP is better for smaller transactions not covered by a credit card.

[Linc]

Really appreciate all the advice.

I called PayPal and started the dispute process. The lady I spoke to hasn’t filled me with confidence. she told me because I returned it as ‘a change of mind’ it might not be covered under there refund process 8-(

I’ve got to wait 10 days for Sellors to respond to PayPal.

Will provide an update as a when.


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[noTAGlove]

Really appreciate all the advice.

I called PayPal and started the dispute process. The lady I spoke to hasn’t filled me with confidence. she told me because I returned it as ‘a change of mind’ it might not be covered under there refund process 8-(

I’ve got to wait 10 days for Sellors to respond to PayPal.

Will provide an update as a when.


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Surely you can fall back on distant selling regulations. Refund up to 14 days without any reason to be given.

[Saint-Just]

Surely you can fall back on distant selling regulations. Refund up to 14 days without any reason to be given.

This ^

[Alansmithee]

Surely you can fall back on distant selling regulations. Refund up to 14 days without any reason to be given.

You are right in that the consumer contracts act covers this (which replaced DSR) but that has nothing to do with paypal's policies on disputes. You could fight paypal over it but they will likely just close your account.

Nothing on this thread so far has changed my mind about my first post - letter before action, then head to smart claims.

[noTAGlove]

Lesson here is above £100 for a regular shop transaction, always use a credit card directly and never use PayPal.