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Thread: Vintage Omega advice

  1. #1

    Vintage Omega advice

    Hi all

    After getting my 38mm Aqua Terra last year, I’ve developed a preference for smaller watches, they are just so comfortable to wear all day imho.

    This has led to looking at various vintage Omega models, and I really fancy getting one.
    The problem is, even though I have started looking into the various models, I’m still pretty clueless!
    I know EBay etc have lots on offer, but I just would have very little knowledge as to whether one I liked was legitimate or not.

    I have lots of questions, the most obvious one for me being would a 34/35mm watch look too small on my 7.5 inch wrist, but I think I have satisfied myself that I’m willing to give that size a try.

    Why do Constellation models seem to command a higher price over others? Do they have better movements?

    I also read that the movements such as the 1481 (which was in a 1972 Omega Geneve I liked the look of) were not as good because they had plastic movement spacers? And they were prone to issues?
    Again, I’m finding it difficult to determine what is correct info and what is just opinion.

    Models I’m drawn to are the Constellation models, Geneve and Seamaster models, although most of the latter I have seen seem to be 34mm, and I might be better sticking to 35mm at least.
    Are any of these models better than the others in terms of quality/accuracy etc?

    My favourite that I have seen is probably the Pie Pan Constellation, although these seem to vary wildly in both condition and price!
    I’m not too keen on the C shape case, I’d prefer the normal case shape with lugs!

    I was going to post a WTB for a vintage Omega, but thought it might be more helpful to try Watch Talk first, as I know there are some very knowledgeable Omega enthusiasts on the forum who might be able to increase my knowledge first (granted this will not be difficult)!

    Also, I have no clue on pricing. Like I said, looking on eBay I have no idea if something is vastly overpriced or not! Should it be serviced? Is this costly?

    Apologies for the rather long winded rambling, but I would love some help/info to assist my search.

    Thanks

    Chris


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  2. #2
    Grand Master
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    1481 movement was developed by Tissot, their version is the 2481. Not my favourite, this movement features a quickset date mechanism which requires the crown to be pressed in to advance the date. They're notorious for not working correctly, not often I`m beaten by a watch but I`ve had a couple of these where I couldn't get the quickset to function even after replacing the setting lever spring with the later modified (better?) version. Unfortunately there's no other quick way to set the date, turning hands back to 9 o clock then advancing past midnight doesn`t work with this design. The crown is designed to protrude slightly from the case to allow room for it to be depressed, another feature I don`t like and a factor that makes crown and stem replacement tricky. I wouldn't go as far as to say avoid these movements, if the watch is a good example go for it, but similar models with 1012 movements are a better bet.

    One I would avoid is the dreaded Seamaster Cosmic with the caseback and crystal all retained by a thick nylon spacer. Very tricky to get apart, especially after 50+ years.......I won't touch them! It's pity because they're often in good condition and the movements were excellent. Confusingly, Omega also sold Cosmic models with a one-piece case and split stem, they're a but tricky to take apart but infinitely easier than the others.

    Buying vintage Omegas is a minefield, parts availability becomes more problematic every year and the watches are becoming way overpriced in my opinion. 10 years ago they were cheap and fun, parts were usually still available and the situation was far healthier than today.

    Why are Constellations more expensive? Because they were always top of the range models and were generally chronometer rated. Personally I don`t believe it's worth paying a premium for a Constellation, originality can be a problem (be sure the movement is correct) and any 'advantage' over similar models without the chronometer movement is almost certain to have been eroded over time.

    The majority of vintage Omegas are 34-35mm, with 34mm more prevalent . However, the lug to lug dimension varies a lot and some of the 34mm models wear surprisingly big. If you're always going to have a hang-up about size maybe it isn`t wise to go down this path, these watches belong to a totally different era where watches were generally 34-36mm and everyone was happy with that, in modern parlance they are what they are.

    The term 'franken' gets bandied around a lot with and there are certainly some horrors out there. However, due to the elitistism that exists on forums many good examples that have had replacement parts get unfairly maligned. Go on the Omega forum and the sages will condemn a watch for having the incorrect crown or a generic replacement crystal, or condemn a watch because it's been refinished, they regurgitate what they've been conditioned to think. It makes more sense to be pragmatic, these watches are 50+ years old, parts will have been replaced, cases will have been refinished. I would rather have a watch with a generic crystal and the 'wrong' crown that keeps water out than an original that steams up when I splash it! As for refinishing, if it's done correctly there's nothing to fear, a nicely refinished watch beats a scruffy original every time in my book, I`ve refinished plenty myself and I'm pleased with the results (as were the owners), but I admit there are some horrors out there too.

    I`ve collected 50s-70s Omegas for years, I`ve repaired and restored plenty, I hold a dwindling stock of movement parts that I`m debating whether to keep or sell as i decide whether to stay in the game or not. I could write at length on the subject but there's no scope for keeping my ramblings as a sticky on this forum so I`m not prepared to waste my time composing a lengthy guide that'll get lost in a couple of days, I guess that's one drawback with forums.

    Best advice I can give is to always handle a watch and inspect it before buying, the only way to get good at assessing watches is by handling watches! A watch can look fine in pictures but is disappointing in the flesh. Be wary of grossly overpriced examples on Chrono 24, some crazy prices being asked for mediocre rubbish thesedays. I`ve bought from overseas in the past but the 20% tax on imports (even from Europe) makes it less tempting thesedays, which is a great shame.

    It's worth putting out a WTB, there are folks on this forum who have several old Omegas and there's always someone prepared to sell. Keep reading and doing your homework.

  3. #3
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    I can't top Paul's interesting and comprehensive reply above but I can share a gratuitous photo of my Omega Geneve Dynamic from 1972 [with apologies for the poor picture quality, it would appear that my Tapatalk subscription has expired and I can't get it to reactivate... ]

    Good look in your search.



    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    1481 movement was developed by Tissot, their version is the 2481. Not my favourite, this movement features a quickset date mechanism which requires the crown to be pressed in to advance the date. They're notorious for not working correctly, not often I`m beaten by a watch but I`ve had a couple of these where I couldn't get the quickset to function even after replacing the setting lever spring with the later modified (better?) version. Unfortunately there's no other quick way to set the date, turning hands back to 9 o clock then advancing past midnight doesn`t work with this design. The crown is designed to protrude slightly from the case to allow room for it to be depressed, another feature I don`t like and a factor that makes crown and stem replacement tricky. I wouldn't go as far as to say avoid these movements, if the watch is a good example go for it, but similar models with 1012 movements are a better bet.

    One I would avoid is the dreaded Seamaster Cosmic with the caseback and crystal all retained by a thick nylon spacer. Very tricky to get apart, especially after 50+ years.......I won't touch them! It's pity because they're often in good condition and the movements were excellent. Confusingly, Omega also sold Cosmic models with a one-piece case and split stem, they're a but tricky to take apart but infinitely easier than the others.

    Buying vintage Omegas is a minefield, parts availability becomes more problematic every year and the watches are becoming way overpriced in my opinion. 10 years ago they were cheap and fun, parts were usually still available and the situation was far healthier than today.

    Why are Constellations more expensive? Because they were always top of the range models and were generally chronometer rated. Personally I don`t believe it's worth paying a premium for a Constellation, originality can be a problem (be sure the movement is correct) and any 'advantage' over similar models without the chronometer movement is almost certain to have been eroded over time.

    The majority of vintage Omegas are 34-35mm, with 34mm more prevalent . However, the lug to lug dimension varies a lot and some of the 34mm models wear surprisingly big. If you're always going to have a hang-up about size maybe it isn`t wise to go down this path, these watches belong to a totally different era where watches were generally 34-36mm and everyone was happy with that, in modern parlance they are what they are.

    The term 'franken' gets bandied around a lot with and there are certainly some horrors out there. However, due to the elitistism that exists on forums many good examples that have had replacement parts get unfairly maligned. Go on the Omega forum and the sages will condemn a watch for having the incorrect crown or a generic replacement crystal, or condemn a watch because it's been refinished, they regurgitate what they've been conditioned to think. It makes more sense to be pragmatic, these watches are 50+ years old, parts will have been replaced, cases will have been refinished. I would rather have a watch with a generic crystal and the 'wrong' crown that keeps water out than an original that steams up when I splash it! As for refinishing, if it's done correctly there's nothing to fear, a nicely refinished watch beats a scruffy original every time in my book, I`ve refinished plenty myself and I'm pleased with the results (as were the owners), but I admit there are some horrors out there too.

    I`ve collected 50s-70s Omegas for years, I`ve repaired and restored plenty, I hold a dwindling stock of movement parts that I`m debating whether to keep or sell as i decide whether to stay in the game or not. I could write at length on the subject but there's no scope for keeping my ramblings as a sticky on this forum so I`m not prepared to waste my time composing a lengthy guide that'll get lost in a couple of days, I guess that's one drawback with forums.

    Best advice I can give is to always handle a watch and inspect it before buying, the only way to get good at assessing watches is by handling watches! A watch can look fine in pictures but is disappointing in the flesh. Be wary of grossly overpriced examples on Chrono 24, some crazy prices being asked for mediocre rubbish thesedays. I`ve bought from overseas in the past but the 20% tax on imports (even from Europe) makes it less tempting thesedays, which is a great shame.

    It's worth putting out a WTB, there are folks on this forum who have several old Omegas and there's always someone prepared to sell. Keep reading and doing your homework.
    What a fantastic reply, thank you!

    There was a Geneve on Chrono 24 that I was seriously considering pulling the trigger on, but given your experience with the 1481, I think I’ll give it a miss!
    In all honesty, I do like the Constellation models a little better anyway.

    Given what you said about parts availability, are they expensive to get serviced? Could you send it to Omega for service, or would it be better with an independent?

    Many thanks.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    I can't top Paul's interesting and comprehensive reply above but I can share a gratuitous photo of my Omega Geneve Dynamic from 1972 [with apologies for the poor picture quality, it would appear that my Tapatalk subscription has expired and I can't get it to reactivate... ]

    Good look in your search.



    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
    Very nice Dynamic! Looks quite big, what size is the case?


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  6. #6
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    https://timerediscovered.com/product...geneve-dynamic

    From memory I recall its something unusual like 40 or 41mm x 36mm.

    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    https://timerediscovered.com/product...geneve-dynamic

    From memory I recall its something unusual like 40 or 41mm x 36mm.

    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
    Great, thanks!


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  8. #8
    Craftsman Robbo12's Avatar
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    Great post from Paul he's sorted a few of mine for me and always been happy.
    If Cousins win there appeal and it's a big IF there will be no problems with parts , especially common problems like auto winding bushes I'm sure these will become available to the independent watchmakers.
    I have the same size wrist as you and prefer 34 / 36 mm watches the max for me is my vintage Speedmaster at 38 mm
    I have tried other much larger watches and really don't like wearing them . They feel too big get caught on my clothes , really not for me.
    There is lots of choice in vintage Omegas, a pie pan Constellation would be nice and just remember it's condition , condition , condition can't stress this enough . You need to buy the best you can afford .
    As stated you WILL have to research and read as much as you can .
    After you have purchased your first vintage Omega and confirmed it's all good , you will find it a lot easier to buy others ,as you compare yours to the listings . Its very addictive once you have learnt all that history
    The hunt is half the fun enjoy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo12 View Post
    Great post from Paul he's sorted a few of mine for me and always been happy.
    If Cousins win there appeal and it's a big IF there will be no problems with parts , especially common problems like auto winding bushes I'm sure these will become available to the independent watchmakers.
    I have the same size wrist as you and prefer 34 / 36 mm watches the max for me is my vintage Speedmaster at 38 mm
    I have tried other much larger watches and really don't like wearing them . They feel too big get caught on my clothes , really not for me.
    There is lots of choice in vintage Omegas, a pie pan Constellation would be nice and just remember it's condition , condition , condition can't stress this enough . You need to buy the best you can afford .
    As stated you WILL have to research and read as much as you can .
    After you have purchased your first vintage Omega and confirmed it's all good , you will find it a lot easier to buy others ,as you compare yours to the listings . Its very addictive once you have learnt all that history
    The hunt is half the fun enjoy
    Thanks, another great reply with some good points!

    I’m exactly the same, having owned mostly larger divers for years, wearing my 38mm Aqua Terra has been a joy. And that’s what led me to think I could easily go a bit smaller.

    Yes, I will endeavour to read and research as much as I can. I’m amazed at how many variations I’ve come across so far!

    Thanks


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  10. #10
    Grand Master
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    Regarding the parts situation and Cousins, I sincerely hope they win the case, but I don’t share Rob’s optimism that a victory would automatically restore things back to 2014. Swatch Group can simply state that a part is discontinued rather than restricted, that may well be true in many cases, I don’t believe many parts are being manufactured for the older stuff and Swatch Group will carefully control the existing supplies. In a way I can see their point, they are maintaining their own capability to restore watches either in Bienne or their Service Centres. Last time I checked ( a few years ago) any pre 1962 watch had to go to Switzerland for work, with all the associated costs, I could understand applying such a rule to certain calibres but applying an age- related cut off seemed somewhat bizarre. I don’t kniw what the current situation is.

    Like cars, certain parts in a movement are prone to wearing whilst others never wear, so it pays to know what these key components are. However, it’s unrealistic for a repairer to stock up on everything, you end up spending a lot of money for parts that may not be needed, so a judgement has to be made. I currently hold a stock of key parts for the 550/560 movements, still in original packaging, but as prices started to get silly I stopped buying. Second hand movements for spares are now getting rare too, and when they crop the prices are too high considering they’ll probably be worn in all the usual places.

    Another Omega movement I avoid is the 500 series, based on the shortage of parts and the likelihood that they’ll need certain parts. Rotor bushes wear, rotor axles are prone to breakage, and the reverser is prone to wearing out. Earlier 330/340/350 bumpers are a better bet, they’re more robust, and the later 550/560 are a better buy because the design’s better and parts can still be found.

    From a buyers position, be prepared to pay strong money for a watch with recent Omega service history, they hold the whip hand with parts so there’s no reason why corners should’ve been cut. Be wary of anything with no service history, unfortunately many offered for sale will fall into this category.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Regarding the parts situation and Cousins, I sincerely hope they win the case, but I don’t share Rob’s optimism that a victory would automatically restore things back to 2014. Swatch Group can simply state that a part is discontinued rather than restricted, that may well be true in many cases, I don’t believe many parts are being manufactured for the older stuff and Swatch Group will carefully control the existing supplies. In a way I can see their point, they are maintaining their own capability to restore watches either in Bienne or their Service Centres. Last time I checked ( a few years ago) any pre 1962 watch had to go to Switzerland for work, with all the associated costs, I could understand applying such a rule to certain calibres but applying an age- related cut off seemed somewhat bizarre. I don’t kniw what the current situation is.

    Like cars, certain parts in a movement are prone to wearing whilst others never wear, so it pays to know what these key components are. However, it’s unrealistic for a repairer to stock up on everything, you end up spending a lot of money for parts that may not be needed, so a judgement has to be made. I currently hold a stock of key parts for the 550/560 movements, still in original packaging, but as prices started to get silly I stopped buying. Second hand movements for spares are now getting rare too, and when they crop the prices are too high considering they’ll probably be worn in all the usual places.

    Another Omega movement I avoid is the 500 series, based on the shortage of parts and the likelihood that they’ll need certain parts. Rotor bushes wear, rotor axles are prone to breakage, and the reverser is prone to wearing out. Earlier 330/340/350 bumpers are a better bet, they’re more robust, and the later 550/560 are a better buy because the design’s better and parts can still be found.

    From a buyers position, be prepared to pay strong money for a watch with recent Omega service history, they hold the whip hand with parts so there’s no reason why corners should’ve been cut. Be wary of anything with no service history, unfortunately many offered for sale will fall into this category.
    Again, more fantastic info and advice, it is very much appreciated!

    I’m happy to wait, and do some more research and reading to try and get myself in a better (more informed) position before I buy. Of course, all this info helps massively.

    Thanks again Paul, much appreciated.


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  12. #12
    Master flame's Avatar
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    Hi

    I'd recommend hanging out on https://omegaforums.net/ for a while....

    Best Neil

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    I'd recommend hanging out on https://omegaforums.net/ for a while....

    Best Neil
    Hi Neil

    Yes indeed! I will do.

    Thanks


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  14. #14
    Grand Master
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    My wrist is 7.5" too and can wear 34mm No problem.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Hi

    I'd recommend hanging out on https://omegaforums.net/ for a while....

    Best Neil
    Just joined, looks like loads of great info!

    Thanks again!


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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    My wrist is 7.5" too and can wear 34mm No problem.
    Oh that’s good to know, I do think I’ll be fine with 34/35mm.
    It’s odd, a few years ago I used to think 38mm was too small!
    Cant seem to get on with bigger watches at all these days, especially on bracelets!

    Would you have any wrist shots handy?


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  17. #17
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrennie44 View Post
    Oh that’s good to know, I do think I’ll be fine with 34/35mm.
    It’s odd, a few years ago I used to think 38mm was too small!
    Cant seem to get on with bigger watches at all these days, especially on bracelets!

    Would you have any wrist shots handy?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sorry none of the 34mm that watch is long gone.Smallest most recent also now gone (Birmingham Watch Fair Yesterday)was a 36mm SMP.
    The now smallest is my 37mm Tudor BB54 which will also be up for the chop.Absolutely not to do with size but reducing the collection.And the Seiko Skin Diver.
    Last edited by P9CLY; 15th January 2024 at 16:13.


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    Sorry none of the 34mm that watch is long gone.Smallest most recent also now gone (Birmingham Watch Fair Yesterday)was a 36mm SMP.
    The now smallest is my 37mm Tudor BB54 which will also be up for the chop.Absolutely not to do with size but reducing the collection.And the Seiko Skin Diver.
    Thanks for the shots!

    That vintage Seiko is great! I actually gave some serious thought to a BB54 before buying my Aqua Terra. I do really like the look of it though!


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  19. #19
    Journeyman
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    I’m curious, in general where is the best place to purchase vintage omegas. EBay is a bit of a Wild West. Any recommendations on sellers?

  20. #20

    Vintage Omega advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom91 View Post
    I’m curious, in general where is the best place to purchase vintage omegas. EBay is a bit of a Wild West. Any recommendations on sellers?
    I’m in pretty much the same boat Tom, and would also like to hear any recommendations where to buy.
    Anyone know of any jewellers in Glasgow that have some vintage Omega?

    I find EBay and chrono24 to be similar in that it can be very difficult to determine exact condition from pictures only. Quite a few times, I have spotted a nice example (cosmetically), only to see several marks, blemishes or even damage when I zoom in on a photo taken from a different angle.

    I’d definitely prefer to be able to see the watch in person first, but very difficult to do, as not many places sell them.

    Authentic Watch Co have a good few vintage Omega models in stock, but I don’t know if they are well priced or over the odds?


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  21. #21
    Master dickbrowne's Avatar
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    I can’t show you any Omegas, I’m on holiday and have few watches with me. However, I can show you a couple of small watches on a 7.5 inch wrist, as that’s what I have.

    Take a look at:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=Small

    And

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=Small

    The watches are both around 33mm for reference.

    I have a few vintage Omegas, from dress watches around the same size as the two above, through seamaster 60 and 120 models, or a similar size, Dynamics, Seamaster 300’s (165-024 and CK2913) and others in between, right up to Flightmaster size, so if you want to see anything in particular please let me know.

  22. #22
    Master
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    This one is 35mm and has a 552 movement and was restored by Paul, it’s an excellent watch.

    On eBay there seems to be many redialled duds. If I wanted one I’d post a wanted here and see what comes up, buy from a decent seller and you will get a good one.

    Omega Seamaster – 1965 – Grandad’s Watch

  23. #23
    Grand Master
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    Despite the potential pitfalls eBay is a useful reference source for prices, simply search for completed listings and find watches that have actually sold. Parkers in Sheffield often have a few in stock, but like most dealers they're not cheap.

    OP needs to decide which models appeal most, but there's no substitute for handling them and trying them on. Constellation pie-pans are always held in high regard but despite owning a couple I think they're over-rated, the small hands take a bit of getting used to.

    Turn the clock back 20 years, when £1 = $2, US eBay was full of well-priced Omegas, customs charges didn`t always get applied rigorously.........happy days! In hindsight I should've filled my boots!

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dickbrowne View Post
    I can’t show you any Omegas, I’m on holiday and have few watches with me. However, I can show you a couple of small watches on a 7.5 inch wrist, as that’s what I have.

    Take a look at:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=Small

    And

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ighlight=Small

    The watches are both around 33mm for reference.

    I have a few vintage Omegas, from dress watches around the same size as the two above, through seamaster 60 and 120 models, or a similar size, Dynamics, Seamaster 300’s (165-024 and CK2913) and others in between, right up to Flightmaster size, so if you want to see anything in particular please let me know.
    Very helpful, many thanks!


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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    This one is 35mm and has a 552 movement and was restored by Paul, it’s an excellent watch.

    On eBay there seems to be many redialled duds. If I wanted one I’d post a wanted here and see what comes up, buy from a decent seller and you will get a good one.

    Omega Seamaster – 1965 – Grandad’s Watch
    That is a very nice Seamaster, and looks to be beautifully restored!


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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Despite the potential pitfalls eBay is a useful reference source for prices, simply search for completed listings and find watches that have actually sold. Parkers in Sheffield often have a few in stock, but like most dealers they're not cheap.

    OP needs to decide which models appeal most, but there's no substitute for handling them and trying them on. Constellation pie-pans are always held in high regard but despite owning a couple I think they're over-rated, the small hands take a bit of getting used to.

    Turn the clock back 20 years, when £1 = $2, US eBay was full of well-priced Omegas, customs charges didn`t always get applied rigorously.........happy days! In hindsight I should've filled my boots!
    Yes Paul, you are correct - I really need to narrow my search a bit.

    I suppose my criteria would be Constellation or Seamaster. Not too fussed about a Pie Pan, as they seem to command a healthy premium!
    A normal case shape (with proper lugs) in either steel or gp, 34/35mm.
    Serviced would be nice, but not a deal breaker for the right watch.
    And in as nice condition as I can afford!

    I can’t be more specific than that, as there seem to be lots of different variations within these ranges. Some I like, some not so much.


    I am going to Glasgow soon, so I’m hoping to see some in person, if I can find any for sale.


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