Celtic v Rangers

[Jimmcb]

So today was the day of the year these two clubs and their global fan base relish.

Blood and thunder showing rivalry at his best/worst. No away fans allowed in either stadium nowadays - WTAF! And a non game for skill based football.

Sadly us Scot’s reckon it’s a great game and shows how great our football is! Really!

I watch Scottish football and yearn for it to have the multitude of teams that many other leagues across Europe have with teams that play (even) a decent level of football.

As Scots we enjoy watching and laughing at the fervour foreign country’s fans have in their teams, despite their obvious failings, but we’re not much better when it comes to Celtic/Rangers believing they stand us in good stead. What a mess Scottish football is in on that basis alone.

I’m sure there will be many fellow Scots on here whose raw nerves are touched by this, but I fear our game is near the bottom of a downward spiral of many years, 20 or so maybe?? When it reaches the bottom what next??

Jim

[Papa Hotel]

Well Rangers got to a European final last year and have topped their group this year, hardly a disgrace. Celtic might not have covered themselves in glory in the Champions League but apart from one game against Atletico Madrid, they were never outclassed.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, Scotland is a relatively small country and doesn't have the population to support anything comparable to the league in England. You can either have a competitive league or you can have a couple of teams making a reasonably good fist of representing the country in Europe, Scotland can't sustain both.

Anyway, have an old joke: there are two main problems with Scottish football. Sectarianism and f**ian ba***rds.

[Jimmcb]

Cheers PH. I guess your team were the losers today 🤪🤪

Does population of a particular country really have anything to do with it anymore? Look at the number of foreigners plying their trade all over the place and making the football exciting eg Italy, Spain, Germany and especially England, including managers.

Nope, it’s the Associations’ ability to market their product. We’re just sh1te at it with SPFL and SFA.

Yes Rangers rode their luck well to get to the final. Celtic have failed, again, in CL but will no doubt go back again in ‘24 for a wee while.

I just despair at how one game, two teams, make us think Scottish fitba is any good. I watch the English teams even in championship level (and below) and our BIG 2, would toil with them on a weekly basis I fear .

J

[Fraz01]

We don’t all think it’s a great game I assure you!

I hate the Old Firm and everything they represent. Bigotry, sectarianism, violence etc, for me they are the scourge of the Scottish game not the pinnacle of it and I haven’t watched an OF match for years.

I and a lot of others like me can’t wait for them to eventually leave the Scottish Leagues and let the rest of us go it alone for better or worse.

Personally I think it would be great for Scottish football if they left, but that might be my bias speaking.

Apologies for the rant, you did indeed strike a nerve there!

[ryanb741]

Cheers PH. I guess your team were the losers today 🤪🤪

Does population of a particular country really have anything to do with it anymore? Look at the number of foreigners plying their trade all over the place and making the football exciting eg Italy, Spain, Germany and especially England, including managers.

Nope, it’s the Associations’ ability to market their product. We’re just sh1te at it with SPFL and SFA.

Yes Rangers rode their luck well to get to the final. Celtic have failed, again, in CL but will no doubt go back again in ‘24 for a wee while.

I just despair at how one game, two teams, make us think Scottish fitba is any good. I watch the English teams even in championship level (and below) and our BIG 2, would toil with them on a weekly basis I fear .

J

If Celtic and Rangers were in the PL, accessing PL revenue streams they would establish themselves as top 6 clubs pretty quickly. Both are historically prestigious clubs with big fanbases, and with the funds they'd receive would attract top players easily.

Money is a big differentiator.

[Papa Hotel]

Cheers PH. I guess your team were the losers today 浪浪

Does population of a particular country really have anything to do with it anymore? Look at the number of foreigners plying their trade all over the place and making the football exciting eg Italy, Spain, Germany and especially England, including managers.

I didn't even mean the population to provide top players, I more meant the population needed to sustain multiple big clubs as a fanbase. It just isn't in Scotland.

[thegoat]

If Celtic and Rangers were in the PL, accessing PL revenue streams they would establish themselves as top 6 clubs pretty quickly. Both are historically prestigious clubs with big fanbases, and with the funds they'd receive would attract top players easily.

Money is a big differentiator.

No they wouldn’t .

[Jimmcb]

We don’t all think it’s a great game I assure you!

I hate the Old Firm and everything they represent. Bigotry, sectarianism, violence etc, for me they are the scourge of the Scottish game not the pinnacle of it and I haven’t watched an OF match for years.

I and a lot of others like me can’t wait for them to eventually leave the Scottish Leagues and let the rest of us go it alone for better or worse.

Personally I think it would be great for Scottish football if they left, but that might be my bias speaking.

Apologies for the rant, you did indeed strike a nerve there!

I’m with you 100%. Believe me!

Jim

[Jimmcb]

I didn't even mean the population to provide top players, I more meant the population needed to sustain multiple big clubs as a fanbase. It just isn't in Scotland.

Gotcha. Agreed.

Slainte

Jim

[Jimmcb]

If Celtic and Rangers were in the PL, accessing PL revenue streams they would establish themselves as top 6 clubs pretty quickly. Both are historically prestigious clubs with big fanbases, and with the funds they'd receive would attract top players easily.

Money is a big differentiator.

I don’t think they’d walk straight in Ryan, nor should they! Yes they have 50k or so for every home game, and English Clubs would love that, but it would take a good few seasons if at all for them to reach PL status - and I do t think they ever would.

Money does talk: look at Newcastle and Man City from a good few years ago. Interestingly, look at Man U. Money maybe doesn’t talk that loudly.

- - - Updated - - -

No they wouldn’t .

Agreed! I think they’d get found out if they EVER reached PL level.

Jim

[Jimmcb]

And who is letting them into the PL? Both of them are league one squads at best and dont give me all that "Oh we have so many fans we fill our stadium" Guff, good for you, Leeds have a massive fan base and plenty of history maybe they should just get direct entry to the PL just because......

Celtic have been taking the lions share of European money Rangers not far off and flogging their best players to anyone who will take them end of every season maybe that could be the problem? Take a look at how much Aberdeen got for playing in Europe.

Rangers got to a European final, they were also the worst team in CL history, second worst being Celtic. Rangers topped their group, they also got run ragged by a team from Cyprus. Celtic were an utter shambles in the CL the only person who thought otherwise was the BT commentator who seemed to think he was watching R Madrid in an away strip. Them celebrating actually winning a game while finishing bottom of a group was cringe.

Scottish clubs need to start looking at other European leagues and how they do things and succeed rather than looking south.

Major problem seems 2 clubs taking a huge wedge of the money and doing little with it while the rest of the league looks like a team playing in the local park.

Nothing to disagree with here at all

[Hood]

Pointless as it will never happen.
Both are global clubs and would attract big investment if ever they were in an EPL .
We have financial fair play though so as others have pointed out with Leeds,Sunderland,etc being a big club doesn't mean you would automatically be top tier.
On the other hand we have seen what money did for a team like Man City who went from nobody's to champ league winners.

Regards the Old Firm game it still gets me up early and shouting at the TV so I don't agree with the haters but ymmv.

[seabiscuit]

We won. What else matters?

[Hood]

Scottish clubs need to start looking at other European leagues and how they do things and succeed rather than looking south.

finally something we can agree on.

On a separate note regards Ryan's post on being top 6 type clubs.
You could equate Celtic and Rangers to Newcastle with the massive fan following .
Like Newcastle they would face exactly the same problem in that top players don't want to go to places like Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester,etc.
At that point you need to pretty much pay double the going rate which in turn would mean needing Arab investors or the like.
Thanks but no thanks.

[Martylaa]

We don’t all think it’s a great game I assure you!

I hate the Old Firm and everything they represent. Bigotry, sectarianism, violence etc, for me they are the scourge of the Scottish game not the pinnacle of it and I haven’t watched an OF match for years.

I and a lot of others like me can’t wait for them to eventually leave the Scottish Leagues and let the rest of us go it alone for better or worse.

Personally I think it would be great for Scottish football if they left, but that might be my bias speaking.

Apologies for the rant, you did indeed strike a nerve there!

Well said, just as long as they don't end up in the English leagues, wouldn't want their bile and bigotry anywhere near our leagues...

[Hood]

On another note I noticed Rodgers had an Aquanaut on yesterday.
He had a Daytona meteorite on earlier in the season so bit of a watch guy.

[gorrie]

Ryan has a very good point though about the money being such a differentiator. The money generated for clubs via the TV deals nowadays is absolutely mental.
There’s always been more money down south, but in years gone by the two Glasgow clubs were able to attract some top players who were still at the top of their game. Laudrup, Gaza, Larsson etc.
Heck, go further back and even my own club were signing the mighty Stevie Archibald from Barcelona!

The product in our league isn’t great at this moment in time, and a lot of that IS down to money. The SFA have not served the clubs well at all in regards to TV deals.

Case in point.. the owner of Bournemouth (a club with a capacity <12k in EPL) is on the verge of having a 25% stake in Hibs (capacity >20k even if its more like 12-16k attendance week to week unless it’s a derby). The whole idea behind it being for Hibs to be a player stepping stone in to Bournemouth. FFS. Part of a multi-club setup spanning Australia and Netherlands as well… but the golden egg being Bournemouth. That shows just how much money has changed the game.

Many fans have also had enough of the small numbers of teams in each league. Personally, I don’t see how we can continue with the current 4 league setup. There’s clearly 1 league too many there, and I think many fans would welcome consolidation to 3 leagues, but the TV companies want a guaranteed 4 old firm games per season and the SFA have no backbone.

[Pitfitter]

We were at Murrayfield for Edinburgh v Glasgow Warriors, 37500 at the game, no segregation, drink available for the crowd during the game and loads of handshaking at the end, biggest dispute? Do you have brown sauce or vinegar on your chips!
The PL don’t need Rangers or Celtic and their nonsense, they’re better off staying big fish in a small pond.

That’ll likely be all my involvement in football for 2024.

[scooby]

We were at Murrayfield for Edinburgh v Glasgow Warriors, 37500 at the game, no segregation, drink available for the crowd during the game and loads of handshaking at the end, biggest dispute? Do you have brown sauce or vinegar on your chips!
The PL don’t need Rangers or Celtic and their nonsense, they’re better off staying big fish in a small pond.

That’ll likely be all my involvement in football for 2024.

Best bit of sense on this thread


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[brownie]

We don’t all think it’s a great game I assure you!

I hate the Old Firm and everything they represent. Bigotry, sectarianism, violence etc, for me they are the scourge of the Scottish game not the pinnacle of it and I haven’t watched an OF match for years.

I and a lot of others like me can’t wait for them to eventually leave the Scottish Leagues and let the rest of us go it alone for better or worse.

Personally I think it would be great for Scottish football if they left, but that might be my bias speaking.

Apologies for the rant, you did indeed strike a nerve there!

I agree with this. They are a stain on Scottish football and the game will never evolve while they are involved.

On them moving to the EPL. Never going to happen. I'd argue that only Celtic are truly a global club with their Irish immigrant links that have spread across the globe. The Ibrox club are really only Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is no comparison IMO. I'd also argue that the majority of global EPL fans couldn't give a toss about Scottish football.
The EPL doesn't need any other club as they've got a load of Championship teams who are battling for three spots every year.

[johny]

We don’t all think it’s a great game I assure you!

I hate the Old Firm and everything they represent. Bigotry, sectarianism, violence etc, for me they are the scourge of the Scottish game not the pinnacle of it and I haven’t watched an OF match for years.

I and a lot of others like me can’t wait for them to eventually leave the Scottish Leagues and let the rest of us go it alone for better or worse.

Personally I think it would be great for Scottish football if they left, but that might be my bias speaking.

Apologies for the rant, you did indeed strike a nerve there!

I agree. For me they are the scourge of Scotland.

[Ivan Drago]

I agree with this. They are a stain on Scottish football and the game will never evolve while they are involved.

On them moving to the EPL. Never going to happen. I'd argue that only Celtic are truly a global club with their Irish immigrant links that have spread across the globe. The Ibrox club are really only Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is no comparison IMO. I'd also argue that the majority of global EPL fans couldn't give a toss about Scottish football.
The EPL doesn't need any other club as they've got a load of Championship teams who are battling for three spots every year.

I think globally Rangers have the most fans in world football I think I’ve read.

They definitely have a bigger fan base than Celtic.


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[Hood]

I think globally Rangers have the most fans in world football I think I’ve read.

They definitely have a bigger fan base than Celtic.


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Don't be ridiculous
Celtic and Rangers wouldn't be top 20 in global fan base
Real Madrid and Barcelona probably followed by Manchester United I'd think.

[Ivan Drago]

Ha honestly I can’t remember where I’ve read it, possibly the Athletic.

They have the most supporters clubs globally and I think it was the most amount of fans.

I was absolutely baffled by it.


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[Speedyexplorer]

Don't be ridiculous
Celtic and Rangers wouldn't be top 20 in global fan base
Real Madrid and Barcelona probably followed by Manchester United I'd think.

Benfica, historically they have had the most paying members