The graph you posted is precisely that in the Highway Code for cars which, as has been demonstrated many times, harks back to the days of Vauxhall Vivas and Morris Marinas. Modern cars perform somewhat better. Another video from 8 years ago:Originally Posted by Saint-Just
The point was not so much about braking distances (although there must be road conditions where those are acceptable for a bike) but about the distance travelled before the actual braking.
3 m difference between 20 and 30 mph means you are just that much closer to the obstacle. So having a biker that first wonders if he can keep the bike upright at 20mph then says that avoidance at 30mph would be easier was a bit… surprising.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
And by ‘surprising’, you do of course mean…….. ‘bollox’.
The opposite, they introduced it with a grace and now they’re going for it. I wouldn’t consider those driving at 24 speedsters, unfortunately those actively speeding have alerts on apps and are actively looking for speed cameras. Or worse still they now travel/speed on residential roads where there aren’t mobile cameras.
Gwen in our village is a bit of a celebrity- she wears a hi-viz jacket and stands at the roadside pointing a hairdryer at the speeders…
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Well that didn't end well for the 20mph limit.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...paign=sharebar
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Quite refreshing that they can own up to it being a mistake and take corrective action though.
Cheers..
Jase
"mistake?" - the mistake they made was to "consult" less than 3k highly selected citizens (a proprtion of which were none drivers - not revealed) then assume that the subservient masses would be crushed into obedience.
As someone living with the contradictions I regret to say its more to do with gaining votes rather than reversing policy. I truly hope Im wrong
I wonder how much the whole fiasco has cost?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I wonder how many of the complainers actually live in Wales. I haven’t met anyone who opposed the limits.
Apparently….
“Since its introduction last September, the policy has sparked significant controversy, leading to protests and petitions, making it one of the most contentious pieces of legislation since devolution in 1999.”
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-says-29030037
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I do live in Wales and I don't oppose the limits. However, there is quite a bit of tweaking required, some roads that could do with being 20mph are still 30, and many more the other way around.
This is totally unscientific, but to me it definitely looks like it's brought the average speed down in many urban areas. Before a large proportion of people were speeding in a 30 zone at say 35-45mph, they now seem to be speeding at 25-35mph (apart from the odd nutter, who will always be the odd nutter whatever the speed limit of course). So while this means the 20mph limit hasn't been achieved, knocking a kid down at 25mph is both less likely to happen and a damn sight less lethal than at 35 if you do.
You can always speed on the pavement if you prefer Ian ;)
I live in Wales.
I’m finding the opposite of you!
The VAST majority I’ve spoken to about it, hate the limits!
I can understand some speed restrictions, near schools etc. lots of the places they’ve put 20 MPH is frankly ridiculous.
Drippy Drakeford got out the right time. He realised That labour will win the next election, so then he wouldn’t be able to blame everything on the Conservatives in Whitehall. Joyous news, we are also having a load more Welsh politicians down Cardiff bay. Just what we need…not!
What we need, is a myriad of things, top one being a half decent NHS..not consistently being the worst NHS in the UK.
Drakeford just wanted to be “ different” . Unfortunately, it was the Welsh public who suffered from it.
I fear Vaughn Gething will be just as much a plonker as Drakeford was.
Ah well, at least after the next election, the Welsh government won’t be able to blame the Conservative government for everything.
I’m a proud Welshman..I’m also of course British first…..I just hope to god in my lifetime we never become independent!
You assume I’m against them. I’m not.
I live in a 20 mph zone and am in favour of them in built up areas and especially near schools. I only wish more people would obey it, I regularly see people who appear to be doing nearer 40 than 20. And that with speed bumps in the road as well.
I don’t think they’re necessary outside built up areas though, I’m not convinced it’s needed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
It's mind blowing that they thought people would just roll over!! However, as per other posts, an election looms and I guess they are hoping this will help get some votes back!
I've come up with a simpler plan, after 20 years+ in Wales I'm voting with my feet and moving back to England. The Welsh population seems to believe that continually voting labour will enable different political outcomes. Don't get me wrong, I've no idea who you'd vote for right now to get sensible outcomes!!!!
The proof will be in the pudding come election time in Wales, it blows my mind they were prepared to ignore a petition with 0.5million supporters
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It was a joke relating to the red light jumping thread Ian.
There a few if any 20 zones outside built up areas, seems to be a myth in certain parts of the press that Wales has a 20 limit everywhere.
Although there are definitely anomalies that need tweaking as I said. For example, when I drive to see my dad, there is a village I drive through (Maesycymmer) that is 30mph all the way through (its side streets are 20), then when you get onto the Pontllanfraith / Blackwood Road it's 20mph all the way for about 2 miles, even on the sections with no houses. There are probably many more examples out there.
Nearly spat out my porridge
I live in Wales and I'm a keen motorist and cyclist, and I hate it in both regards. I've found noone in my circle of friends and colleagues who likes it, but most are drivers in fairness.
From the driver perspective, I can see people every day doing the same things... Still speeding, aren't really concentrating, seem confused as to what the limit is etc. I'm all for reducing limits by schools but if child safety is the issue I would go further and make roads around schools pedestrianised during open and close and lunch times. The standard of parking, driving etc when parents are late for the school run is off the scale. I'm not sure why a school zone must be 20 at 3am or on a weekend.
I completely get the points made about lower speed = less injury, I think my frustration is more at how it's applied and why stop there. Let's go 10mph? The research was an antidandruff commercial and the morons who did it and sanctioned it obviously didn't understand it care. They said 90% of accidents are on 30 roads so they are statistically the most dangerous. This year it'll probably be 95+ are on 20 roads -because there's more of them. So 20mph are now going to be statistically the most dangerous roads in the country by some margin.
With pedal power it's just as frustrating, because cars pace me and hang on my back wheel more, but they don't safely overtake when there is a gap because they would be doing 20+, so I'm always on edge as are the drivers probably.
Then there's the spray paint washing off old signs, differing limits on the same road ( my street is still 20 one way and 30 the other) and signs right on street corners so you can't see them when turning into junctions.
Overall it's been a mess.
I had occasion to be driving in a bit of North Wales last week, west of Chester to a few places and on up to Anglesey.
It was my first experience of the new blanket 20mph limits away from the A55 etc, and it did feel like it had been implemented clumsily.
At one point, the 20mph limit I was in was going through a small town with a school and plenty of people walking about, and it felt right. The town ended and then it was a long straight road for a couple of miles, no junctions or anything, no people and it was still 20mph. The cars behind all overtook me, and can’t say I blamed them.
Other places it was very confusing, with 40 painted on the road next to new 20mph signs that had been sprayed over with black paint, presumably by some disgruntled locals.
It’s a good idea in principle, just needed more planning, but that’s just my view. Back here in Lincs, the small country lanes around the village I live in are all 60mph outside the immediate centre, I do feel very vulnerable walking, cycling or taking the horse out as generally traffic feels like it’s going far too fast for the types of road they are. Some people would undoubtedly still ignore whatever speed limit was displayed, but anything that generally slowed folks down a bit would get my vote.
Last edited by Tooks; 21st April 2024 at 09:07.
the people i know in south wales think the whole thing was a joke , with signs changing speed limits within a hundred yard of each other all over the place - the locals made their thoughts clear on the matter by spraying black paint on most of the signs.
.... i guess at least they have admitted it was a dumpster fire and are trying to correct it , the UK politicians reaction to a dumpster fire is to throw more poor people on it.
In the Borders - we had a fairly long trial period, where people got used to the limits. Did that not occur in Wales?
A lot of complaints, but it was passed (albeit their statistical analysis, which was basically a spreadsheet of accidents/speeds/location- was given greater credence by being carried out by Napier? University).
Then - even MORE complaints. All of who - hadn't bothered their arses to take part in the consultation (it was easy), and even gave unlimited space for freetext - rather than stupid questions that skew the results.
Some major roads were increased on outskirts of towns, and Police are not looking at anyone doing (say) as high as 28mph.
What it has done, I feel - is lower the max speed to (say) 28mph rather than cars and lorries barrelling through small villages at 40+
An HGV license-holder is a lot more careful that he ISN'T doing 20mph more than/double the posted limit. While the police appear to be fairly tollerant of speeds 20-28mph, I think a report to the Sheriff court would quickly ensue and prosecution/loss of livelihood would ensue - as a warning to all.
The road from Valley to Trearddur is a strange example of different limits, also travelling between parked cars on the roadside within these 20 limits can be really painful
What a refreshing read, thanks for posting.
Steve
I ride around wales a fair bit, and I have to admit that most of the 20 limits don’t really bother me, but I do object to the way the councils have used the opportunity to extend lower speed limits outside of the 20’s
But I see so many examples of limits that make no sense whatsoever.
For example the spot below on the A5. Houses, junctions, children’s play area, old folks bungalows. 60MPH. Locals have taken to putting up their own signs begging people to slow down. In my unprofessional view this should be a 30 or maybe a 40 limit.
This road with a few houses and well sighted junctions is a 20mph.
We live near Wales and there are 20 mph limits in most of the English towns and villages in our county. We had a wander up Moel Famau today and on the drive there there are no 20 limits, in fact a notorious long downhill into Mold is still a 40.
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