Predicament with new neighbours

[Mike2500]

I have searched previous posts and have not found anything too similar to this so thought it's best to start a new post regarding an issue with a neighbour.

My better half and I purchased a property in the summer, which we knew would be a 'project' to modernise and put our stamp on it, which we were more than happy to do obviously with the help of trades when needed. We met most of our nearby neighbours within the first few weeks of moving in, all of whom have been more than pleasant and welcoming as well as being happy that we are 'modernising' our new home and even offered advice. However, and this is where it gets interesting, we attempted to pop round to introduce ourselves to another next door neighbour on a few occasions but the door was never answered so we eventually put a polite note through to the same effect. After a couple more attempts and polite notes, we were becoming increasingly concerned as there was no response. I should add that the outside of the property is in disarray with extremely unkempt gardens (front lawn over two feet high), permanently drawn curtains, missing fence panels at the back and broken gutters. Out of concern, we spoke with various organisations such as Environmental Health, Adult Services and 111 to understand if anything can be done to check if whoever is living there is okay, all to no avail. In the meantime, other neighbours had mentioned that the person living there is a recluse and best avoided where possible. Various comments were also made about the condition of their front garden.

After another week, one evening we received a note through our door from our next door neighbour with a few pleasantries as well as their mobile number. I then sent a polite text message introducing myself and thank them for their note and number. In one message, I asked if they'd like me to mow it but this was met with a "thanks but not thanks" type of reply. I also messaged about replacing the missing fence panels at our own cost so our garden is then enclosed but I received the same reply again. Our neighbour's rear garden was as overgrown as their front garden and we ideally didn't want to have to see it all the time.

A few weeks passed and nothing had been mentioned about the missing fence panels (missing when we viewed over six months before), which was causing some concern due to lack of privacy and security in our rear garden. We therefore decided to install an entirely new fence inside our neighbour's fence (entirely on our land) so it improves the outlook of our garden. To prepare for the fencing installation, I started knocking down a small wall at the front of our property, which was approximately 0.3m from our adjoining boundary. After a few blocks had been knocked away, I received a text message from my neighbour requesting "what am I doing" and "that area must be kept clear for their boundary area" to which I just replied that we are installing a new fence down the entire length of our property, which had been mentioned in one of our notes. I also advised that we were having some work carried out the following week (garden rooms being built under permitted development) so apologised for any disruption in advance. We had verbally notified other nearby neighbours, all of whom had no issue whatsoever.

Roll on one month and the garden offices were coming along well (with no comments from next door) and it was the day our new fence was starting to be installed. Once holes were being made for the posts, I received another message (without any pleasantries) stating "please remember to keep my boundary area clear". I replied stating that the fencing is being installed on our land and there'll be space remaining between the fence and the adjoining boundary. The fencing contractor returned the following week to finish the job and clear a lot of rubble. This prompted a phone call from an unknown number, which was our neighbour's daughter, (who we didn't know lived there) complaining about the "noise pollution has been ongoing for weeks" and "it is causing a great deal of stress and upset for her poorly mother". She also went onto say how rude and disrespectful we are to them and to the area for carrying out such works! I was quite taken aback by this as firstly I wasn't expecting the tone of the call to be so aggressive and unpleasant as I had always been so polite with my messages and replies. Various derogatory comments were also made about the installation of the garden room. I offered my apologies for the noise and said how we'll ask the fencing contractor to work quieter if possible. With this, we decided to keep contact to a minimum.

Anyway, roll on another month and the garden room was finished and our internal work started (kitchen and bathrooms). Again, we notified all nearby neighbours of tradespeople visiting and obviously the noise. No concerns were raised at all. On the day a skip arrived and an internal wall was taken down, I sent a polite message to both of my 'other' neighbours (mother and daughter) apologising in advance for any "skip noise" and "advised that we are having some internal work carried out". No reply received. Work continued inside for the next couple of weeks, which obviously would have caused some noise due to what was going on. I received a very direct text message from the daughter urgently needing to know what is being done and how long it will be going on for. Due to frustrations and what I consider to be unreasonable behaviour experienced so far, I decided not to reply. One week later I received another text message requesting how long the work will be going on for. I did reply this time to advise it will be approximately another month – (it’s actually behind schedule now so I’m dreading when it carries into December for a few days).

What happened yesterday made me decide to write this in such detail so thank you if you've read this far. The kitchen fitters were knocking down some concrete steps with sledgehammers and handheld breakers, which obviously made a lot of noise outside. It had to be done yesterday due to the weather. I received an aggressive phone call from the mother yesterday lunchtime demanding to know what we are doing and why! I also suspect that the call was recorded as the call was muted for about 20 seconds, which then went to loudspeaker and sounded as if her phone was placed down somewhere to record. I was also asked not to say anything until the phone sounded as if it had been placed down?! Despite trying to 'calm' the situation and explain everything, I was not able to say much due to being shouted at down the phone by both neighbours. After one rant, I was however able to say that "we do not have to justify what we are doing and why". This prompted some more unpleasantries being shouted down the phone by both as well as being told "we are going to be reported to the council for ongoing noise pollution". After that, they hung up on me!

So, I'd be very grateful for any impartial thoughts, advice, comments, anyone's similar experience on this predicament. Other neighbours often ask how things are going and just say to ignore it but it’s easier said than done. I have thought of blocking their numbers or asking them not to contact me again and if they do just ignore. I do genuinely appreciate the ‘other’ neighbours’ frustration with the noise (when it occurs) but it's only temporary and I understand we are well within our rights to do such work to our own property. All other nearby neighbours do not have an issue and have often asked how things are with our 'other' neighbours. From my own limited experience thus far and what has been said by other nearby neighbours, it seems our 'other' neighbours are not particularly nice people (or just not ‘right’) and either stuck in the past or in a comfort zone, hence their reaction to any nearby improvement work going on.

Sorry for the essay and thank you in advance for any feedback

[Ivan Drago]

Just got accepted your neighbours are a pair of odd bods.

Ive had a similar scenario the last couple of year with an extension I’ve had built.

My neighbour has been more than difficult for no apparent reason and at one point told me “ I don’t want you to have an extension, it’s too noisy and will spoil the area.

To which I pointed out my extension would be an exact replica of her extension so can’t see how it would impact the area and then asked how her construction work was completed without noise.

She responded with saying she was going to ring the police as she didn’t like how I was treating her and that I was bullying an elderly lady.

I just accepted she was an odd bod and have killed her with kindness every time I see her.


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[PickleB]

You don't mention the type of property. Is is detached or a semi? If the latter, do you have a party wall with the troublesome neighbour?

Have you ever seen the daughter? It could be that she phoned you in response to communications from her mother and the second telephone call might have been a conference call, ie the daughter lives elsewhere and hasn't recently visited the property next door.

[Captaincook]

Personally, I would do my best to ignore them. Although, fully appreciate the difficulties.

It sounds like you have gone out of your way to make it known your intentions and plans, and have gone about it the right way. I would consider at the next opportunity to say/send a message to say that works should be finished by xx date and leave it at that. Sadly, they were there first and I doubt they will change.

[adigra]

You just have to accept that some people are very odd and no matter what you do will not please them. Doesn't sound like anything to worry about, but I know that's easier said than done when faced with irrational behaviour. I'd just ignore them completely.

When we moved into our current house we had an odd experience with the neighbours. My wife was so nice and keen to make friends with them, which they took as an open invitation to send her increasingly aggressive texts about whatever they were unhappy with. My wife tried to play nice until she got so stressed out she let me handle it. As usual, as soon as you push back the bullies shrivel, accompanied with flowers to my wife. This was two years ago and I think I've seen them twice in that time since.

Sadly, more you engage more you invite the vampires in.

[adrianw]

I think as long as the work is being carried out between 7-7 and not Sundays she can’t do a thing, being right won’t help the situation, I think I would avoid any contact with them.

[Mike2500]

You don't mention the type of property. Is is detached or a semi? If the latter, do you have a party wall with the troublesome neighbour?

Have you ever seen the daughter? It could be that she phoned you in response to communications from her mother and the second telephone call might have been a conference call, ie the daughter lives elsewhere and hasn't recently visited the property next door.

I should have mentioned that it’s a detached bungalow. Yes, I’ve seen the daughter walking around outside and when I spoke to her that time, she confirmed she’s living there.


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[Neil.C]

I don't think there is anything you can do, just try and live your life and accept that some people get a bit weird in their old age.

TBH If I had seen the house next door in a state of disrepair I wouldn't have purchased but it's too late for that now.

Be aware she may start calling the police on you and all sorts as unfortunately she probably looks on you as an enemy now. You see this stuff in the papers all the time.

Hopefully once all your repairs are finished it may calm down.

[eagletower]

Ignore them, carry out work during permitted hours. Some people there is no reasoning with .

[brigant]

Just ignore them as long are acting within reasonable bounds. Everybody is different and you can't account for or please everybody. If they are known to be difficult shouldn't this have been highlighted when buying the property?

[eagletower]

Just ignore them as long are acting within reasonable bounds. Everybody is different and you can't account for or please everybody. If they are known to be difficult shouldn't this have been highlighted when buying the property?

Maybe the old owner didn't carry out any works so didn't encounter these issues.

[Foxy100]

If they do complain about you, it's quite possible they've complained about other neighbours. If what you are doing is all acceptable (who doesn't have work done to their house?) and you've done your best to alert all the neighbours I can't really see what the council will do. Perhaps don't accept any calls from them and keep everything in writing on text message. Good luck.

[wileeeeeey]

You sound like a great neighbour to have.

Nothing anywhere like what you’re going through but my attached neighbour is very annoying and when we were gutting the house he wanted us to explain what we were doing, why, how long it would take, do the builders need to be so loud.

In the end I dropped the pleasantries and was just very firm that what we’re doing is our business, it will take as long as it takes, the noise from the builders isn’t social or music related so I don’t care, and if he wants any details or input he can pay 25% or stop talking it.

Various petty run ins with him re parking and other nonsense and the firm way seems to work the best.

[blackal]

Keep a diary of work dates and times, and block her phone number.

[PickleB]

I should have mentioned that it’s a detached bungalow. Yes, I’ve seen the daughter walking around outside and when I spoke to her that time, she confirmed she’s living there.


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In which case you have done your best and there is not a lot else you can do apart from ceasing the work...which isn't going to happen.

As others have said, make sure you're conforming to the basic local rules and carry on to completion as quickly as is practicable. Make a note of your communications / interaction to date (in case they're needed) and keep any possible confirmation of them.

Continue to be pleasant and forthcoming in response to any direct approach but don't volunteer anything further. That should put the ball firmly in their court...and await their next move, if any...would be my suggestion.

[alas58]

Sadly due to my upbringing in not the nicest area of Glasgow I would not have been as patient or nice as yourself and told them to **** Off, making sure there were no witnesses. People like that will not be placated or be reasonable no matter what you do. I’m sure things are stressful enough without them adding to it.

[Thom4711]

You're not doing anything wrong whatsoever, based on your account. You've been more than civilised so I agree with the others that you should continue exactly as you are doing. No point upsetting them, so I'd remain courteous but basically ignore them.

Sorry to hear. This sort of thing can be stressful.

[Thom4711]

And it would be remiss to not ask the standard TZUK question here: Do they have a letterbox?

[ralphy]

You sound like a very decent neighbour.

I can't add anything further to what has already been advised, but do try to not let it affect you.

Good luck.

R

[acg]

And it would be remiss to not ask the standard TZUK question here: Do they have a letterbox?

And put an MX5 though it. Or a slow worm in a Barbour jacket

[Man of Kent]

Block the phone numbers. They clearly don't do face to face. If they do come to your front door, ask them to stop trespassing.
It's too late for pleasantries.

[higham5]

Ignore them, carry out work during permitted hours. Some people there is no reasoning with .

This^^^^^^^^^^^ , every time you engage with them , you get grief. In your opening description you mentioned the other neighbours said she was “ best avoided” hinting at previous fracas.

[thieuster]

Rules in the UK do not differ a lot from the rules here in the Netherlands. The same goes for certain neighbours... But I think you've made a very wise move to contact the officials of Environmental Health, Adult services etc. If, at one point, she's going to contact the police, you can show that you've been worried about your neighbour(s)' well-being from the very first beginning. I honestly doubt if they will contact the local authorities: that will put the spotlight on them and their behaviour as well. And I don't think that they want that! Or you can mention that loosely when she threatens to call the coppers.

[Montello]

I have an odd neighbour ... after 20 years we just keep out of her way ... it's the easiest option

She blocked our planning request for an extension even though she has extended her own property ... people get very odd / /territorial and there is no reasoning with them so no point trying.

Just continue as you are, sounds like it is a bit noisy but that is unavoidable ... as long as the hours are 9-6 I can't see any complaints unless they are shift workers and even then what could you do ...

[lewie]

And it would be remiss to not ask the standard TZUK question here: Do they have a letterbox?

Grrr beat me to it

[unclealec]

Our next-door-neighbours are a menace.
They were round a few days ago at half-past-three in the morning, banging on our door and screaming threats.
Fortunately I was still up, practising my bagpipes.

[jukeboxs]

Everyone has different circumstances, we have no idea what struggles your neighbours face every day. Constant external noise outwith their control might just be too much (without which they just about keep their heads above water). Just because someone doesn't behave in someone's perceived "normal way" doesn't mean they are just not "right" (not pointing this at you, just an observation).

It sounds like you have been reasonable, patient and friendly - which I applaud (many would have reacted much less pleasantly I'm sure, including some on this thread).

We should be wary of prejudices, and also allow for people having very different struggles to ourselves (under which we would likely be acting similarly or worse).

Best of luck to you both. Enjoy your new home (once finished).

[Beanie]

Contractors will general comply with a code of practice which says that general construction work should be restricted to the following hours: Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm. Saturdays 8am to 1pm. Noisy work is prohibited on Sundays and bank holidays.
DIY is different but just be conscious that a reasonable person (that doesn't mean your neighbour but a person in the street having possession of the facts) should not consider it to interfere with their enjoyment of their property. If possible I would keep to those hours for DIY as well although your council may have specified DIY hours which you should be able to find on their Environmental Health website. The Police won't be interested in noise nuisance and if you behave reasonably, the EH dept won't be able to find against you.

[Hood]

TBH not sure I'd want to stay there with these crackpots as neighbours once the house is done.
Might have an issue selling right enough if their garden is like a jungle.

[stooo]

And it would be remiss to not ask the standard TZUK question here: Do they have a letterbox?

It was my first thought also.

And put an MX5 though it.

Never heard it called an MX5 before, did you mean MR2?

[JasonM]

It was my first thought also.



Never heard it called an MX5 before, did you mean MR2?

NR2?

[M1011]

Worth having a discrete camera or two recording your property, storing permanently to a hard drive. Good for security in general of course, but also if anything comes of the dispute it'll be good to have an impartial witness rather than a he-said-she-said scenario. Honestly sounds like it's all bluster and you'll probably be left alone once the work is done.

[vulcangascompany]

Our next-door-neighbours are a menace.
They were round a few days ago at half-past-three in the morning, banging on our door and screaming threats.
Fortunately I was still up, practising my bagpipes.

Are you Alastair Campbell?

[barty9]

And it would be remiss to not ask the standard TZUK question here: Do they have a letterbox?

I was thinking the exact same ;-)

[Halitosis]

I'm surprised the standard TZ suggestion took until post 18 :lol:

Everyone has different circumstances, we have no idea what struggles your neighbours face every day. Constant external noise outwith their control might just be too much (without which they just about keep their heads above water). Just because someone doesn't behave in someone's perceived "normal way" doesn't mean they are just not "right" (not pointing this at you, just an observation).

It sounds like you have been reasonable, patient and friendly - which I applaud (many would have reacted much less pleasantly I'm sure, including some on this thread).

We should be wary of prejudices, and also allow for people having very different struggles to ourselves (under which we would likely be acting similarly or worse).

Best of luck to you both. Enjoy your new home (once finished).

Very balanced post, and seconded. Though attempts to placate can only go so far, so please don't dwell on your neighbour's discontent OP. It is after all a two way street and their lack of maintenance to the garden fence had a detrimental effect on you.

[brigant]

I'm surprised the standard TZ suggestion took until post 18 :lol:



Very balanced post, and seconded. Though attempts to placate can only go so fa.

Ah, the Neville Chamberlain gambit.

[Mj2k]

Can’t choose your neighbours, which is a shame, so feel for you.

Even established neighbours can suddenly be #ankers, buying an EV with no driveway and installing a ramp Red Bull would be happy to rent for an event, but only at night.


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[mk1974]

I’d just ignore them,working hours are generally 8-6,I’d go a bit slower and be a bit louder.
There’s nowt they can do .


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[Lammylee]

When I moved in my house the previous owner had put a fence up within his garden and the house owners behind then decided that this was the boundary.

When I ripped the fence down and chopped down a tree they wrongly believed to be theirs, the first week I moved in there was some shouting, apparently the lady of the house is known to get a bit ‘agitated’.

That was 12 years ago and I’ve never heard a thing from them since so there’s always hope.

[Wolfie]

Just continue to be polite and do the right things…. Don’t rise to any shouting or antagonistic texts…. Respond politely and concisely to messages when they’re not rude and ignore ones which are….

Any calls which become rude, just explain you’re hanging up…

Continue to keep them informed when to expect noise

Move on…. It sounds like they’re relatively distant…

[deanlad]

I'm surprised the standard TZ suggestion took until post 18 :lol:



Very balanced post, and seconded. Though attempts to placate can only go so far, so please don't dwell on your neighbour's discontent OP. It is after all a two way street and their lack of maintenance to the garden fence had a detrimental effect on you.

This. Just because someone for whatever reason decides to love in an untainted house or state, regardless of circumstances, doesn't mean you have to follow suit.You bought a place with a vision to make it your home, you have funds, and doing so with all legal parameters . so crack on.

Its normally jealousy or envy when neighbours have major works done that creates the issues....

[unclealec]

for whatever reason decides to love in an untainted house

Sadly those days are over for me....

[TheFlyingBanana]

Our next-door-neighbours are a menace.
They were round a few days ago at half-past-three in the morning, banging on our door and screaming threats.
Fortunately I was still up, practising my bagpipes.

😁😁😁

I’m sure that’s an old one, but it’s a very good one!

[Mike2500]

Thank you very much for all of your helpful, kind and encouraging replies. It’s really reassuring to hear that others have dealt with similarish neighbours and I’m not alone with this type of thing.
I’m also thankful to those who have said do not get disheartened as we have felt slightly on eggshells at times when noise starts, which isn’t right at all. Perhaps it’s a control thing on their side, which I genuinely won’t rise to.

The ‘kill with kindness’ approach is one I definitely favour, which I already use and will continue to do so. In all of my replies so far, I have just stuck with factual information whereas the messages and phone calls received from my neighbours have been based around emotion, which doesn’t make for a good judgement.
It’s interesting as my partner is much more ‘feisty’ than me whereas I see myself as much more placatory. She often says that it’s good our neighbours only have my number as if they had hers, it wouldn’t be as polite. Humour aside, this does sometimes result in a heated discussion as to which approach is best: mine or hers! The discussion often ends with me saying something like “let’s not make their problem our problem”, which I think sums up the issue pretty well.

I must admit I did feel somewhat nervous about posting such a detailed account of events but felt it necessary to receive advice and reassurance from this wonderful community that is TZ!

Thanks again for everyone’s helpful inputs


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[wileeeeeey]

If it makes you feel any better we found out last week the guy we bought our house from was nicknamed MC Hammer as he tried to kill the next door neighbour one day after an argument about builders and the entire street had to hold him back.

I’m sure just ignoring them will work out fine for you!

[aa388]

Rules in the UK do not differ a lot from the rules here in the Netherlands. The same goes for certain neighbours... But I think you've made a very wise move to contact the officials of Environmental Health, Adult services etc. If, at one point, she's going to contact the police, you can show that you've been worried about your neighbour(s)' well-being from the very first beginning. I honestly doubt if they will contact the local authorities: that will put the spotlight on them and their behaviour as well. And I don't think that they want that! Or you can mention that loosely when she threatens to call the coppers.

I could play devil’s advocate and say that the OP exacerbated the problem by calling environmental health and adult services. The rest of the village knew they were reclusive and difficult so a few words with them would have brought that to light so no agencies needed to be involved. Now they are there is animosity between them which will never go away.

It was good of the OP to offer to cut the grass and fix the fence, hopefully he realised he would be doing it weekly till he moves.


Why do I say this. Well after living in Wensleydale for about 30 years things like this happened regularly, (and don’t take this the wrong way) but outsiders with pockets full of cash would buy houses up to redevelop and thought that all around should comply with there idea and way of life and it always caused problems with the older generation of proper locals.


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[Matt68]

People can be strange and come across unfriendly, me and the wife have lived in a small cul-de-sac of bungalows in a small town in north west England for the past 20yrs, every neighbour, in fact everyone in the cul-de-sac have been very friendly over the years, but we got a new next door neighbor about a year ago, he's not exactly a friendly chap either, I remember the first time seeing him, I was loading my sea kayak onto the roof of my Van and he came out to do something to his Car, when I heard him I automatically turned to say hello, I thought it might be the normal thing to do, although I knew he was aware of my presence he didn't acknowledge me, I thought maybe he was a bit deaf or just didn't hear me, this happened a few more times until I realised he just wasn't a friendly kind of person, I thought at the time, I'm not saying hello to the back of his ignorant head... I've ignored him ever since, I would suggest you do the same and crack on with your property, life is too short to worry about someone who won't give you the time of the day, put your positive energy into the friendly neighbours and ignore the clampits.

Matt.

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[Onelasttime]

I could play devil’s advocate and say that the OP exacerbated the problem by calling environmental health and adult services. The rest of the village knew they were reclusive and difficult so a few words with them would have brought that to light so no agencies needed to be involved. Now they are there is animosity between them which will never go away.

How would the neighbours know that he'd contacted environmental health and adult services? Those agencies weren't interested, so weren't involved in any capacity.

People are strange and sometimes we end up living next to them. Our neighbour's weird. Sometimes says hello, sometimes doesn't so you never really know where you stand.

We went on holiday this summer and came back to a new view through to the house at the back. It took a while for us to realise the neighbour had our tree lopped out of sight for her new shed. She also killed all the ivy growing along the fence. It was our ivy and it's our fence.

I politely requested that she ask her us next time before she starts hacking and killing our plant life. She just said, 'But you were on holiday'.

She's clearly an idiot, but we keep it civil and rumble along.

[Matt68]

How would the neighbours know that he'd contacted environmental health and adult services? Those agencies weren't interested, so weren't involved in any capacity.

People are strange and sometimes we end up living next to them. Our neighbour's weird. Sometimes says hello, sometimes doesn't so you never really know where you stand.

We went on holiday this summer and came back to a new view through to the house at the back. It took a while for us to realise the neighbour had our tree lopped out of sight for her new shed. She also killed all the ivy growing along the fence. It was our ivy and it's our fence.

I politely requested that she ask her us next time before she starts hacking and killing our plant life. She just said, 'But you were on holiday'.

She's clearly an idiot, but we keep it civil and rumble along.

I had a similar thing happen a few years ago when a young couple moved into one of the houses that back onto our bungalow's garden, the young lady caught my attention one day while I was in the garden and said she wanted a new fence put up, I wouldn't normally have a problem with this but I had established Clematis on the fence that gave us the look and privacy we were happy with.. but.. they are a young couple, they want everything new an nice, so I agree as long as they didn't kill my plants, you guessed, her dad who carried out the work dug the roots out, when I questioned him he said they were in the way, so there went my nice green fence, I wasn't best pleased and had to pay for the pleasure as I had agreed to contribute to the materials used.

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[Onelasttime]

I had a similar thing happen a few years ago when a young couple moved into one of the houses that back onto our bungalow's garden, the young lady caught my attention one day while I was in the garden and said she wanted a new fence put up, I wouldn't normally have a problem with this but I had established Clematis on the fence that gave us the look and privacy we were happy with.. but.. they are a young couple, they want everything new an nice, so I agree as long as they didn't kill my plants, you guessed, her dad who carried out the work dug the roots out, when I questioned him he said they were in the way, so there went my nice green fence, I wasn't best pleased and had to pay for the pleasure as I had agreed to contribute to the materials used.

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That's really annoying.

Our neighbour also wants to put a new fence in and we also have clematis, jasmine, choisya, and used to have ivy, growing just inside it. She decided she could take the ivy without any fuss, but thankfully left the rest, although I fear it's just a matter of time and then I'll have to get proper annoyed with her. I've asked her if she can build a new fence inside the existing fence to save us all the fuss but she hasn't responded.