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Thread: Insurance for JLR cars

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  1. #1
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    Insurance for JLR cars

    Whilst costs are up everywhere, I've been reading and hearing about the price of insurance for RR cars rocketing due to the number of thefts, especially around London where some say they have just about become uninsurable. Don't have one but as the owner of an F-Pace and being up in semi-rural Scotland I wondered if there would be seepage to my model and location. Yep. Insurance renewal in today and is up 45%. Called them and first time I've not been able to get some sort of discount, even by a a few pounds. So I ran the usual comparison quotes and cheapest I could find was +85%! So sucking it up and staying with same insurer this year I guess. You would think this has to be a sore one for JLR in terms of people looking to move away from their products....or put off new buyers.

  2. #2
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Reminds me of the time when the same thing happened to insurance premiums for 'hot hatches' back in the early 90's.

    My XR2 became pretty much worthless overnight as nobody could afford to insure them.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    Reminds me of the time when the same thing happened to insurance premiums for 'hot hatches' back in the early 90's.

    My XR2 became pretty much worthless overnight as nobody could afford to insure them.
    I had an XR3i for 2 years insured with a company then they told me they had changed the age limit up to 25 so they wouldn’t even insure me on one.

    But this insurance lark recently is beyond a joke. I’m dreading next month, I’m paying around 850 now but had quotes last year up to 3600. It’s just mental.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    I had an XR3i for 2 years insured with a company then they told me they had changed the age limit up to 25 so they wouldn’t even insure me on one.

    But this insurance lark recently is beyond a joke. I’m dreading next month, I’m paying around 850 now but had quotes last year up to 3600. It’s just mental.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Martin Lewis is on TV Now ! . Some takeaway.

    21days before renewal is sweet spot
    Add spouse or other older driver to reduce risk in their eyes
    Consider multicar with spouse or multi eg car and home

  5. #5
    I wouldn’t touch JLR products with a barge pole.

  6. #6
    Our Ipace increased about 50%, premiums for electric cars have gone up but their is also seems to be a Jaguar tax, a high number of insurance companies are refusing to cover Jaguar SUVs or 4X4s

  7. #7
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    I recall the early 90's Hot Hatch insurance issues well as I was selling new Astra GTE 16v's and Nova GTE's etc it was a very painful and often awkward situations arose daily where clients tried to offload but we simply could not buy in as who do we then sell them to ?

    The insurance companies are bearing the brunt of quite frankly crappy security allowing many of these cars to be stolen with relative ease which is daft when products like 'ghost immobilisers' are readily available Some JLR Dealers have caught on (just) and are offering free installs but insurance companies will take time to come around and a few months or even years of lower theft rates to reflect lower premiums.

    Jaguar are finding it tough to find their identity and the network is now downsizing outlets at a rapid rate currently Vertu going from 6 down to 1.

    When you combine the crazy 'Luxury car tax' for over 40k cars then add a chunky upward only insurance premium it's all getting a bit buttock clenching add in a dash of depreciation that hasn't existed for 2 years and we could be heading for a bit of a challenging time.

    Insurance companies are also now sick of the RS3 / M140i / A35/45 youth market and these cars are getting massive premium hikes which is battering not just younger buyers but all age categories who own or want to.

    Unless the car manufacturers get properly serious about theft protection quickly high premiums are here to stay, you can't unlock an iphone without a fingerprint or facial recognition so why not all new cars ?

  8. #8
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    I guess the parts supply problem isn't going to help:

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/c...s-await-repair
    "A man of little significance"

  9. #9
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Parts availability (or lack thereof)is leading insurers to write cars off much quicker than pre-covid.

    Hypothetically speaking, let’s imagine 6 months ago you’ve bought an A class Mercedes Benz. £34k, standard AMGLine, A180.

    You have a minor collision into the back of someone, say bumper/bonnet/lamps/wings. If you’re unlucky maybe a cracked windscreen and a driver airbag. You have a passenger, their airbags gone too. You now need a new dashboard too….

    Bonnet £400 wings £300 each LED headlamps £550 each bonnet £500 wing screen £500 dash carcass £500. 2 airbags £300 each, new seatbelts (assuming the pretensions have triggered) £300. Bonnet pyrotechnics £300. £4800.

    Labour and paint £5k easily including calibration of the electronics (windscreen distance sensor, park sensor, collision detection etc) so you’re at a £10k claim.

    Insurance company put you in a courtesy car whilst yours is being fixed, cost £50-100 a day. Let’s go cheapest, £50 a day and it takes 90 days to settle the claim, do the repair and put you back in your car. 90x50 is another £4500.

    £15k ish loss adjustment.


    Or.

    Write the car off within a week, write you a cheque for £28k (“depreciation”) and a hire car (7x£50 £350) and sell the Merc for salvage say £20k. £8350 loss adjustment.


    And this is where it then takes another sinister turn, because the wideboy garage who buys the cat S A class’s cheapest way to get it back on the road for sale with a hefty profit is to get the local scrotes to go steal an A class in the same colour, usually for a relatively small payday (a couple of hundred quid) then strip and refit the parts, sell on the car with (generally untraceable) stolen parts. So after factoring in the stripping, labour and refitting, they might have outplayed £21000 on a cat s that they can advertise for £26k hoping that some mug doesn’t HPI it…..

    And to add insult to injury, that still leaves the wideboys a set of seats, doors, back bumper, set of wheels, steering wheel (sans airbag of course) rear lights and other trim pieces that they didn’t use from the stolen car on the rebuild of the cat s to flog on eBay……

  10. #10
    I think its just car insurance in general, mine was up massively (on a M240i - I made a post on here about on TZ)

    My wife's car insurance was a few weeks back and that was went from £400 to £500, called around and no one was cheaper that is on a CX-30.

    A colleague at work has a RR SVR and he struggled to get insurance on his last time, not sure what he ended up paying but it was very high.

  11. #11
    Time to buy car insurance company shares.

  12. #12
    I got a renewal for my GLC 43. It was £928, a couple of hundred more than last year.

    Off I trotted to the comparison sites and the next cheapest was £1600 - so it looks like I got off very lightly.

    I also insure a Tesla and a Yaris on a multicar policy that needed renewed and that increased to £1300 this year.

    Bonkers costs.

  13. #13
    Master
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    Mine is up as well. Of 3 cars the most expensive of mine to insure is a Jaguar XFR and I can't get close to the renewal price when doing a comparison quote. My overall renewal is up around 25% in total.

  14. #14
    Craftsman Kris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Time to buy car insurance company shares.
    I really wouldn't bother. Motor insurance is a loss leader for other ancillary products sold with the policy.

    The reason insurance premiums are going up is to balance the massive losses made in the last year or so accross the market (including a massive hike in the number of RR and LR's being stolen ).

    Insurers aren't making a profit, they are trying to balance the books to make sure they comply with the FSA reserving requirments designed to protect policyholders.

  15. #15
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    XJ 3.0 Supercharged = £110pa with Saga, albeit only 5000mpa, no business, but protected NCD and premium fixed for 3yrs.

    Not sure it would be high on anyones list of motors they'd want to nick ;) but its the best car I've had to date, and never missed a beat.

  16. #16
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    I was considering an iPace but the best price I could get for insurance was £1200 with a £500 excess. This compares to £300 for my current BMW 520 to show I'm not a ridiculous risk. Even a BMW 440i was £800

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  17. #17
    Range Rovers are silly money to insure near me. I live in North London Arkley.My mate's renewal came in at £16,000 for his new Range Sport , he quickly got rid of it. A friend in Harpenden got quoted £7000 for a 2017 .

    My neighbours got stolen off their drive , they just jumped over the walls, started it and reversed out the gates. The gates didn't offer any resistance.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagletower View Post
    Range Rovers are silly money to insure near me. I live in North London Arkley.My mate's renewal came in at £16,000 for his new Range Sport , he quickly got rid of it. A friend in Harpenden got quoted £7000 for a 2017 .

    My neighbours got stolen off their drive , they just jumped over the walls, started it and reversed out the gates. The gates didn't offer any resistance.
    A friend of mine near Birmingham has a Range Rover said the premiums gone up from 1.5k to 6k this year needless to say he wants to sell it

  19. #19
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    Looks like there maybe quite a few cheap 10 year old RR products on the market if these insurance quotes keep rising.

  20. #20
    Sales guy at my Ford dealers has an Alfa Quadrofolio Guilia and it’s gone up,to £6k. Mind you he’s only 21 and that’s with it in his dads name

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael 38 View Post
    A friend of mine near Birmingham has a Range Rover said the premiums gone up from 1.5k to 6k this year needless to say he wants to sell it
    A friend of mine in Solihull, his renewal this year is 7k! He paid just under 1k the previous year

  22. #22
    I guess it would be a good time to discus the time you made redundant the vast majority of area tech managers and replaced them with 5 blokes sat in a call centre that didn’t know the first thing about the product? An important link between dealer and manufacture that was got rid of at the swipe of a a pen. Before that of course the time when technical stopped taking calls and it was all done via email? It would then take 3 days for a reply whilst the 48 hr deadline you forced upon the dealers to rectify the vehicles was already over.
    Whilst its great for you to sit there and tell me how it is, you forget that a vast number of us sat behind the complete inept attitude of JLR and the blithering decision they made which directly effected the dealers. Of course once the vehicle was diagnosed wed also be lucky to get the bits assuming they weren't on BO.

    It’s great to actually hear the attitudes of the JLR hierarchy, we expected what went on in the background…i should have known it was your network of dealers that were the real problem
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 10th November 2023 at 23:50.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I guess it would be a good time to discus the time you made redundant the vast majority of area tech managers and replaced them with 5 blokes sat in a call centre that didn’t know the first thing about the product? An important link between dealer and manufacture that was got rid of at the swipe of a a pen. Before that of course the time when technical stopped taking calls and it was all done via email? It would then take 3 days for a reply whilst the 48 hr deadline you forced upon the dealers to rectify the vehicles was already over.
    Whilst its great for you to sit there and tell me how it is, you forget that a vast number of us sat behind the complete inept attitude of JLR and the blithering decision they made which directly effected the dealers. Of course once the vehicle was diagnosed wed also be lucky to get the bits assuming they weren't on BO.

    It’s great to actually hear the attitudes of the JLR hierarchy, we expected what went on in the background…i should have known it was your network of dealers that were the real problem🤣.
    At no point have I said it’s all the retailers fault or that JLR are brilliant

    I have shared data that shows a healthy business on an improving trend - you seem to get very defensive as it’s not aligned with your view that started this conversation

    In my time there which was until very recently, my colleagues and I all valued the retailer network massively - they have a tough job and do their best but they also are not perfect hence my examples. Like all things in life it’s better to work together than against each other and the most successful retailers do just that and it has a huge positive impact on customer satisfaction and their bottom line.

    The times of redundancy were awful - I had to make decisions that still sit with me to this day as some great people had their lives turned upside down. It had to be done though as the business was in survival mode - it was bad for everybody including the customers.

    Some day maybe we will get the chance to meet and talk in person - I think it would be a great conversation and the drinks are on me!

  24. #24
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Who's FRED ?? 😂😂

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Who's FRED ?? 
    He made the tea but they made him redundant.
    Its a prior approval system that dealers had to use before they replaced specific parts

  26. #26
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    So, some disconnect bwtween company management and the coal face, at least in perception?


    Most of this thread had been about the LR and less about the J, Is there any appreciable difference between the two marques, in reliability and support terms etc?

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mk2driver View Post
    At no point have I said it’s all the retailers fault or that JLR are brilliant

    I have shared data that shows a healthy business on an improving trend - you seem to get very defensive as it’s not aligned with your view that started this conversation

    In my time there which was until very recently, my colleagues and I all valued the retailer network massively - they have a tough job and do their best but they also are not perfect hence my examples. Like all things in life it’s better to work together than against each other and the most successful retailers do just that and it has a huge positive impact on customer satisfaction and their bottom line.

    The times of redundancy were awful - I had to make decisions that still sit with me to this day as some great people had their lives turned upside down. It had to be done though as the business was in survival mode - it was bad for everybody including the customers.

    Some day maybe we will get the chance to meet and talk in person - I think it would be a great conversation and the drinks are on me!
    JLR was a huge part of life at dealer level for many years and of course still is today but i thank the day i saw the light and finally left. Not that I'm placing you responsible but during that time you also got rid of quite a few long standing dealers that helped get the brand where it was. Dealers that were full of people who had 30 plus years experience who knew the product inside and out. These businesses were then taken over by the likes of the Cambria group who bastardised the business in a week. You lost great people during that time…for what? To fill these new flash dealerships with people who simply don't care. Customers now are walking bloody wallets and thats it…there is no longer any real relationships based anymore on trust. Dealers now are only interested in one thing…selling the numbers and flogging over priced tat to customer that don't need it. If you want to look at the issues at JLR you need to look from inside.
    I would love for you as someone who has clearly had quite a high profile job at JLR to sit in my office and listen to the stories day in day out about the utter hatred, and it is hatred, for the local dealers. I think I've heard something then someone else comes in and trumps the story….lowers the bar to mm’s
    I apologies if I've been quite abrupt and emotional on this subject, i appreciate im only looking from one side and obviously its not a clear cut case but judging by the past 6 months dealing with JLR on a daily basis i fail to see how they can continue on the same curve for much longer.
    Yes I think it would be good to chat at some point
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 11th November 2023 at 00:41.

  28. #28
    The parts situation is horrible but it will be resolved and resolved very soon. In the long term the it will also make a positive difference to the retailers. The business has stood up publically and said it’s horrible and it is getting the highest level of attention and efforts!

    To add more to this thread and with reference to the above.

    We use 2 local dealers who supply all of our genuine parts, we spread the love between the 2 as sometimes one has something in stock whilst the other doesn't so we chop and change. Going back 6 months ago the delivery service we received from Land Rover was pretty good, if something was ordered on stock by 3pm or VOR by 5pm we would generally, as long as there was stock at factory, have the parts by midday the following day. That now has disappeared over the past 3-4 months. Now when ordering something we have no idea even if a part is available that the stock will be sent to the dealer. Total nightmare for us as we have no idea if it’s even worth keeping a customers car over.
    The reasons for this….JLR had 3/4 distribution centres around the UK these now for some bizarre reason have been amalgamated in to one huge distribution centre in Mercia Park in the midlands. This has put the dealers in total meltdown. To give you some scale of the utter cock up JLR have made of this transition our local dealer a few days ago openly told me that their sales figures are down by approx 50k a month. They were promised this was always going to be a short term problem however the parts manager told me that JLR have just told them that it will likely continue for 6 more months. The parts guys don't know which way to turn, they don't know left from right, it has personally effected the whole team financially as none of them are making any bonus and the outlook is that from start to finish they will be likely be down more than £500k in lost sales revenue. Does JLR care?……do they F**K was his reply.
    Times that by the amount of dealers in the UK and you can only begin to appreciate the scale of the problem and is easy to see why there are thousands of cars (new and old) up and down the UK broken down and waiting for parts.
    JLR have also removed identifying labels on the parts they do receive at the dealers replacing them with barcodes……a dealer can now have a consignment come through (400 plus parts) and have literally no idea who's parts are who's…why you ask, because the barcode system they have replaced the labels with doesn't work. They still continue to send the parts with no labels but barcodes…it’s easy to see why so many mistakes are happening even when they do get the right parts.

    And now to my situation…im currently replacing 2 blown turbos on a V8 diesel Range Rover Sport. Most of the parts are dealer sourced apart from the turbos which we purchase direct from the manufacture Borg Warner. Before removing the body which renders the ramp out of action for a week i made sure that all the parts were available….which they were. I had no choice to start the job as i would lose my workshop time and wouldn't be able to do it later as being fully booked up. Most of the parts come through apart from 2 gaskets, 6 down pipe bolts and one main turbo boost pipe for the NS turbo to intercooler. This allowed me to totally strip and rebuild the OS and strip the NS turbo but not being able to fully rebuild due to the pipe. This was 10 plus days ago, they told me the pipe would be 2 days, 2 days come still no part, was then told another few days, still no part, was told then early part of last week but still never turned up. Waited all last week, phoned up this Monday to be told that the part is now on Back order with no estimated delivery date. Ramp out of action, customer getting increasingly frustrated by the situation. I spent many hours this week to find out that there is literally no chance of getting one, my local dealer tried a dealer search…nothing. I tried normal aftermarket route and nothing. There is one in Poland but second hand and literally wont risk fitting it as if it came from a blown turbo could be filled with metal like the one i took off. My last contact with the dealer was yesterday, today i rang the owner to give her the good news and obviously she was rather upset.
    The customer decided to ring around the dealers today to try and find one and low and behold the dealer is now telling her that one is available, however the part has to be ordered from the old distribution centre which is in Desford. In one day the part has become available but wont be here for 3-5 days supposedly. I expect the whole saga will happen again next week.




    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd November 2023 at 00:49.

  29. #29
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    JLR do care - I personally know the directors involved in resolving this and their teams and they care and are doing everything they can. It’s also got the attention of the CEO and whole board.

    Its an incredibly complex situation with a lot of details that I cannot post on a public forum

    Yes the move to Mercia has caused the majority of the issues alongside an already strained supply chain and of course its hurting most importantly customers but also the retailers and JLR

    It will get fixed, it won’t take 6 months and it will result in a much better long term solution for customers, retailers and JLR

    I know that doesn’t help the pain today

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mk2driver View Post
    JLR do care - I personally know the directors involved in resolving this and their teams and they care and are doing everything they can. It’s also got the attention of the CEO and whole board.

    Its an incredibly complex situation with a lot of details that I cannot post on a public forum

    Yes the move to Mercia has caused the majority of the issues alongside an already strained supply chain and of course its hurting most importantly customers but also the retailers and JLR

    It will get fixed, it won’t take 6 months and it will result in a much better long term solution for customers, retailers and JLR

    I know that doesn’t help the pain today
    6 months comes from JLR as per the area meeting they had. His biggest worry is that currently all his customers are shifting towards aftermarket (allmakes and shitpart) and he strongly believes that some wont return. The damage thats being done currently is totally unbeleivable.

    BTW JLR have never ever cared about anything.

    You say it will result for long term solutions for customers, I'm a customer, before it wasn't broken, i ordered a part it came the next day. What will it improve, same day parts? I think not!
    It may well improve things for JLR but it will make little different to the end user.
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd November 2023 at 23:18.

  31. #31
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    It’s pretty obvious that not matter what I say you have a hatred towards JLR - that’s how you feel and clearly that’s valid

    What I will say though is I have worked there and you have not. I have not worked in a retailer and you have albeit a while ago. I have however worked with a lot of people who have worked in retailers, some for decades and now work for JLR and all of them see things very differently when they see the world from inside the OEM.

    I know JLR care and I know that the people are doing everything they can

    The long term benefits of the move is not something I can get into in great detail but speed is just one metric - obvious other ones are cost, part availability and coverage particularly for older vehicles, worldwide distribution improvements (it’s not all about the U.K.!), sustainability improvements, workforce experience improvements, retailer facing ordering system improvements etc

  32. #32
    Master
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    I’ve been trying to get insurance on a new SVR and premiums are astronomical, we’re talking 6 grand for the ones that will quote, I don’t get it

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooshabak View Post
    I’ve been trying to get insurance on a new SVR and premiums are astronomical, we’re talking 6 grand for the ones that will quote, I don’t get it
    Assuming it’s a Range Rover how long do you hope to keep it, they seem to disappear very quickly

  34. #34
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Assuming it’s a Range Rover how long do you hope to keep it, they seem to disappear very quickly
    Yes Range Rover SVR, I am hoping to keep it for a while fingers crossed, funnily enough I actually had a couple of toe rags try TWOC my current Range Rover in broad daylight about a month ago on a Sunday afternoon but I ran after and caught them!!

  35. #35

  36. #36
    Master
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    One of our neighbours said we have had a couple of range rovers stolen from our road in the last few days

  37. #37
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    Dreading the wife's renewal coming next month.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by thfccambs View Post
    Dreading the wife's renewal coming next month.
    Insurance or marriage vows?

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by thfccambs View Post
    Dreading the wife's renewal coming next month.
    Why? Let her pay.

  40. #40
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Why? Let her pay.
    KS, you definitely need to get that refund from the charm school man 😂😂

  41. #41
    My fault for the derail so aplogies.
    So 5000 plus RR’s stolen in the last year and quickly rising, whats happening to the vehicles?
    Are they simply being re-plated and sold on or harvested for the parts? Sold abroad…whats the story?

  42. #42

    Insurance for JLR cars

    TBH insuring their cars is the least of owners worries, the way things are going the whole dealer networks going to fall apart and you won’t be able to get warranty work done either. Not too sure how a company can carry on with awful reliability history with no inkling of any improvement. That reliability level has been that way for many years. The vehicles that are out of warranty must be costing them a bloody fortune in post warranty repairs. The entire dealer network is ran in most by huge PLCs which are focussed on turn over not customer experience and retention. They have very recently changed their parts distribution centres to one central hub. It’s in total meltdown. Parts taking weeks to get to dealers, dealers having no idea what’s going on, basic parts on constant back-order. JLR is currently a f**king shambles…. They really need to get their act together or I really fear the worst for them.


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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    TBH insuring their cars is the least of owners worries, the way things are going the whole dealer networks going to fall apart and you won’t be able to get warranty work done either. Not too sure how a company can carry on with awful reliability history with no inkling of any improvement. That reliability level has been that way for many years. The vehicles that are out of warranty must be costing them a bloody fortune in post warranty repairs. The entire dealer network is ran in most by huge PLCs which are focussed on turn over not customer experience and retention. They have very recently changed their parts distribution centres to one central hub. It’s in total meltdown. Parts taking weeks to get to dealers, dealers having no idea what’s going on, basic parts on constant back-order. JLR is currently a f**king shambles…. They really need to get their act together or I really fear the worst for them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    With a full order book and if the build quality is still crap, it can only get worse, they may well implode

  44. #44
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    The business is healthy and getting better both financially and with product quality improving and also future product strategy

    The parts situation is a bit of a perfect storm but will be resolved very soon

    Product quality is improving both for recent vehicles but also for later in life for more recent vehicles

    The retailers are dealing with poorer quality from 5-8 model years ago which JLR are supporting as best they can

    Having just left the business I know this factually by the way

  45. #45

    Insurance for JLR cars

    Quote Originally Posted by mk2driver View Post
    The business is healthy and getting better both financially and with product quality improving and also future product strategy

    The parts situation is a bit of a perfect storm but will be resolved very soon

    Product quality is improving both for recent vehicles but also for later in life for more recent vehicles

    The retailers are dealing with poorer quality from 5-8 model years ago which JLR are supporting as best they can

    Having just left the business I know this factually by the way
    Lol, are you a Tory politician?
    Dealers are in turmoil, having friends who are service managers, after sales managers and salesmen I’m absolutely certain of JLRs current position. I spend in the region of 80-100k in parts and so also know this factually. They are a joke.

    As for future strategy, Remind me how their 2020 vision has gone?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 10th November 2023 at 21:22.

  46. #46
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Coventry UK
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    630
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Lol, are you a Tory politician?
    Dealers are in turmoil, having friends who are service managers, after sales managers and salesmen I’m absolutely certain of JLRs current position. I spend in the region of 80-100k in parts and so also know this factually. They aren’t currently a joke


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The opposite of a politician - I say it as it is

    The parts situation is horrible but it will be resolved and resolved very soon. In the long term the it will also make a positive difference to the retailers. The business has stood up publically and said it’s horrible and it is getting the highest level of attention and efforts!

    Independent metrics and the internal projects and metrics I worked on every day when I was there proves quality is getting better. Have a look at how JD Powers has improved over the last 3 years as an example.

    I also talked directly to markets and retailers across the globe so again I do actually know what I am talking about with more data than those who have not worked there.

    You also stated to thought the business was at risk - it’s the opposite, it is in the best position in a long time from a financial point of view, order book point of view and quality performance point of view.

    Some public sources

    Finance and order bank :
    https://media.jaguarlandrover.com/ne...hflow-record-0

    Quality : Note where Jaguar and Land Rover are against premium competitors

    https://www.jdpower.com/sites/defaul...U.S.%20IQS.pdf

    Also to show I’m a realist, the VDS from JD Power shows what I said about it getting better recently but retailer still suffering with older models

    Land Rover bottom but improved since 2022 by 10 pp100

    https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ility-studyvds

    https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

  47. #47
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Coventry UK
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Lol, are you a Tory politician?
    Dealers are in turmoil, having friends who are service managers, after sales managers and salesmen I’m absolutely certain of JLRs current position. I spend in the region of 80-100k in parts and so also know this factually. They are a joke.

    As for future strategy, Remind me how their 2020 vision has gone?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What strategy are you referring to? The Reimagine strategy is working very well - see my previous post with regards to order bank and financial results and it also includes information on a future platform as well

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Lol, are you a Tory politician?
    Dealers are in turmoil, having friends who are service managers, after sales managers and salesmen I’m absolutely certain of JLRs current position. I spend in the region of 80-100k in parts and so also know this factually. They are a joke.

    As for future strategy, Remind me how their 2020 vision has gone?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They are only now acknowledging that their cars have a security problem, now that insurance companies are refusing to insure them, had this this conversation before, but the Chinese content in JLR cars us going up and up,

  49. #49
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    May 2009
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    North West
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk2driver View Post
    The business is healthy and getting better both financially and with product quality improving and also future product strategy
    Tata are skilled at getting tax payers money out of governments by crying wolf time and time again I worked with GM they did the same

    “If you don’t give us xxx’xxx’xxx we will close Luton and Ellesmere”

    They did this every 7-8 years successfully.

    Tata “Give us 500 million and we will keep the steel works open”
    Tata “Give us 500 million and we will keep JLR production in U.K.” unless Spain offer more
    Tata 2013 “Give us 500 million or we close Halewood”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...ry-plant-in-uk

    https://planet.outlookindia.com/news...el-news-415952

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...r-tata-3458211

    They know how to bend over politicians like Hunt and Sunak who can’t be seen as losing jobs or factories shut down on their watch as bad optics Tata know this.

    And having spent 35 years with GM and Ford I will always remember this being the manufacturer standpoint.

    When everything is going well it’s because of our great product and brilliant brand management and when it’s all going wrong it’s because of shit dealers (the same ones as when it was going well).

    Warranty or ‘policy’ costs are a huge problem as they need to be costed into RRP’s and spiraling claims push up RRP affecting competitiveness and bottom line and so to manufacturers, dealers putting claims in are the devil and instead of fixing the root of the problems ‘product quality’ and ‘component manufacturers’ they make it increasingly hard for dealers to claim , prior approval, photos videos, hours hanging on phone, days to respond, inspections which means waiting days or weeks for factory tech to come in just to confirm your diagnosis was correct meanwhile the customer is in a hire car getting more angry by the day.

    Just to add many manufacturers have ‘procurement bods’ whose job ot is to source components it’s often apparent their main focus is on cost alone and not longevity or servicability or even the supplier’s credentials this is I think the cause of much of the problem.

    Then you submit your monthly claims often substantial amounts tens of thousands and then often wait weeks to get paid or if your unlucky some rejected which means hours battling on the phone or online, piles of old parts choking the parts department for months awaiting return and inspection to make sure you didn’t just make up the defect that the customer raised as a concern.

    Thats before you start on peer group charts and audits many of which can result in fines into hundreds of thousands with penalties and interest, for fraud (very rare normally big PLC) and thats fine but sometimes it’s based on technicians poor write ups or clockings or not booking out a 10p washer on a £10’000 engine job debits the whole claim, I sat on the warranty audit appeal board and saw decent grown men utterly broken.

    Dealers hate doing warranty work its filled with trepidation, angry customers and manufacturers who are bizarrely suspicious and paranoid of the very people who they chose to represent them as trusted partners who are trying to defend the manufacturers reputation and retain the customers confidence.

    Many dealers now actively manage away warranty work to other neighbouring dealers by being too busy not wanting to end up on the naughty step or buried under paper and parts so customers ricochet like a pinball from dealer to dealer until some poor soul says “yeh we can look at that”.

    Maybe one day manufacturers will open their own ‘warranty’ repair outlets nationwide that would be a fascinating case study dealers could help set them up with bank style protection screens and gum shields.

    FFF we have the same T Shirt.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Tata are skilled at getting tax payers money out of governments by crying wolf time and time again I worked with GM they did the same

    “If you don’t give us xxx’xxx’xxx we will close Luton and Ellesmere”

    They did this every 7-8 years successfully.

    Tata “Give us 500 million and we will keep the steel works open”
    Tata “Give us 500 million and we will keep JLR production in U.K.” unless Spain offer more
    Tata 2013 “Give us 500 million or we close Halewood”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...ry-plant-in-uk

    https://planet.outlookindia.com/news...el-news-415952

    https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...r-tata-3458211

    They know how to bend over politicians like Hunt and Sunak who can’t be seen as losing jobs or factories shut down on their watch as bad optics Tata know this.

    And having spent 35 years with GM and Ford I will always remember this being the manufacturer standpoint.

    When everything is going well it’s because of our great product and brilliant brand management and when it’s all going wrong it’s because of shit dealers (the same ones as when it was going well).

    Warranty or ‘policy’ costs are a huge problem as they need to be costed into RRP’s and spiraling claims push up RRP affecting competitiveness and bottom line and so to manufacturers, dealers putting claims in are the devil and instead of fixing the root of the problems ‘product quality’ and ‘component manufacturers’ they make it increasingly hard for dealers to claim , prior approval, photos videos, hours hanging on phone, days to respond, inspections which means waiting days or weeks for factory tech to come in just to confirm your diagnosis was correct meanwhile the customer is in a hire car getting more angry by the day.

    Just to add many manufacturers have ‘procurement bods’ whose job ot is to source components it’s often apparent their main focus is on cost alone and not longevity or servicability or even the supplier’s credentials this is I think the cause of much of the problem.

    Then you submit your monthly claims often substantial amounts tens of thousands and then often wait weeks to get paid or if your unlucky some rejected which means hours battling on the phone or online, piles of old parts choking the parts department for months awaiting return and inspection to make sure you didn’t just make up the defect that the customer raised as a concern.

    Thats before you start on peer group charts and audits many of which can result in fines into hundreds of thousands with penalties and interest, for fraud (very rare normally big PLC) and thats fine but sometimes it’s based on technicians poor write ups or clockings or not booking out a 10p washer on a £10’000 engine job debits the whole claim, I sat on the warranty audit appeal board and saw decent grown men utterly broken.

    Dealers hate doing warranty work its filled with trepidation, angry customers and manufacturers who are bizarrely suspicious and paranoid of the very people who they chose to represent them as trusted partners who are trying to defend the manufacturers reputation and retain the customers confidence.

    Many dealers now actively manage away warranty work to other neighbouring dealers by being too busy not wanting to end up on the naughty step or buried under paper and parts so customers ricochet like a pinball from dealer to dealer until some poor soul says “yeh we can look at that”.

    Maybe one day manufacturers will open their own ‘warranty’ repair outlets nationwide that would be a fascinating case study dealers could help set them up with bank style protection screens and gum shields.

    FFF we have the same T Shirt.
    Same T shirt and printed at the same time!

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