I've just come back from watching my oldest Grandson's Under 12 boys team beaten 4-3 by Charlton Academy girls.
Before the game I checked the registration cards when I saw the size of the girls as I could see they were much older and towered over our lads.
I questioned the Charlton manager as to why his team were all a year and some two years older than our boys.
Apparently it is sanctioned by the FA that much older girls can play against boys far younger.
FA or not, that doesn't seem right to me at all.
Cheers,
Neil.
Sounds like BS, have you checked the FA regs.Originally Posted by Neil.C
My nephews under 12s play mixed teams, apparently they will play mixed until 18. But seems like the girls migrate to all girls teams once they get to about 14.
I don’t understand why adults knowingly arrange miss match fixtures to allow their team to get an easy win, it’s demoralising for the losing team. Sounds like your lads held up well under the circumstances.
If they lost by only one goal - that would appear to be a reasonably-well matched game?
I don’t believe it’s much older, just one year, so U14 girls can play U13 boys. The girls maybe taller but the boys are likely more aggressive and physically capable.
Helps develop both the boys and girls.
They lost by one goal, so a close game. What’s the problem?
https://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/ke...ns-202223.ashx
Rule 4f
Noted. One year then, but not two.
In my nephews league all the girls are the same school year as far as I know.
They seem to play together without any issues.
Aren't males stronger than females by biology? I don't see anything wrong with it myself but seems strange in this day and age it was boys Vs girls!
It can be boys vs girls up to U18 and girls can play in boys teams. Transgender (if that’s what you were referring to??)“However, transgender players may apply to the FA for approval to play in their affirmed gender.”
At that age girls are often taller than boys anyway as they usually reach puberty a little earlier.
Anyway, 4-3 sounds like a good match and no doubt helped the development of both teams. Possibly a little over-competitive for a parent to check registrations and challenge the manager.
Registration cards are checked by both managers and their assistants as a matter of course before kick off.
Cheers,
Neil.
You'd think so wouldn't you but these giant amazons we played against made our boys look like dwarves and they were certainly physically stronger in challenges too.
We have played mixed teams before where the girls and boys have to be in the correct age range, it just seemed odd that an all girls team, and academy no less should get such an advantage.
Cheers,
Neil.
Are you the manager?
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My 11 year old son is in 2 teams and I coach both of them. We play such a mix of ability, all I hope for now is competitive match. 4-3 sounds like a great match, I’d just be thinking about the next you play them. I also believe girls can play cricket against boys who are 2-3 years younger. This is more problematic as 9 yo boys who are only just learning hard ball against well drilled 13 yo girls can be a mismatch and a little dangerous. We have 2 girls in our U11 rugby team, 1 is good and the other decent. They need to leave at the end of the year to find a girls team.
I'm the assistant manager, my son is the manager.
It's my job to check the cards before the game.
Cheers,
Neil.
Same situation in cricket then? I had no idea.
Being taller can be a great advantage in the game.
Cheers,
Neil.
Is an 'age group' always exactly the year in the FA? 'Age group 12' could have 11 y/o (nearly 12) and (nearly) 13 y/o. If so, then the difference can be big when you play an 'age group 14' team. (Some can be nearly 15 y/o if that age difference is allowed within one team.
I googled Charlton Academy and my impression is that these managers and coaches have a 'take no prisoners' attitude. With the influx of (good players m/f) it's easy to turn up with a team with a selection of tall, strong girls, also from a higher age group. Add that up and you'll be pretty certain that C.A. wins. I think that 4-3 is a very good result!
Got it, makes sense.
Did you not know beforehand the age group you were playing against?
Any over age?
It can be difficult for the better girls academy teams to find suitable opposition, so well done to you guys for giving them a good game.
Did your boys enjoy it, that's the main thing.
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Last edited by xxnick1975; 30th October 2023 at 12:32.
Not until Boys hit puberty
Grandad - Assistant Manager
Dad - Manager
Grandson - Player
With parents being so competitive for their children - you must get challenged on team selection?
Exactly the impression I got Menno.
They train three nights a week with professional coaches.
It struck me as a bit cynical that they used the FA rules to gain traction against a much smaller/younger team trained by Dads.
Cheers,
Neil.
We knew who we were playing but had no idea a team of giants would turn up.
As they were playing in the U-12's we assumed they would be the right age and when I took it up with their manager he put me in the picture as it is not something we had come across before.
So it was 13 year olds playing 11 year olds.
In answer to your question, the boys didn't really enjoy it at all, they were being bashed about all over the place plus on the receiving end of shirt pulling, pushing etc that is taught to youngsters at academy football.
We have to play them at their place next time.
Cheers,
Neil.
Not at all.
My Grandson is one of the better players and joint top scorer, but I would say that wouldn't I?
We play 9 - a side at that age group and have 12 players in the squad which are switched around so they all get plenty of minutes during the game.
We don't let anyone sit on the sidelines too long.
Cheers,
Neil.
You know that things get serious when C.A. coaches start following him with theie eyes instead of looking at their own team. Next step is C.A. casually standing next to you, trying to get the boy’s (your grandson’s) name.Not at all.
My Grandson is one of the better players and joint top scorer, but I would say that wouldn't I?
Been there, experienced that with my oldest’ sailing activities 10, 12 yrs ago.
What an outcome that would be!
Understood and sorry - I took from your first post you were a casual observer rather than on the coaching staff.
Perhaps a higher level of football than my lads played at (regional league) - no registration cards were ever mentioned. That said, I recall an under 15's Scottish Cup game where the opposition sported a couple of beards and after the game I saw their keeper drive his car off
We take my 12 Year old nephew to football sometimes.
My observation is the parents get way too involved, all the managers and coaches are dads and they seem to both favour their kids and push them a little harder.
We are usually the only non-parent adults in attendance and some of the adult behaviour is uncomfortable despite all the signage about respect.
That said the teams wouldn’t run without keen parents so it’s a bit of a balancing act.
My view is at 12 years old they should be allowed to just have fun playing with a light hand of guidance.
If your team didn’t enjoy the fixture why would you not just decline the return fixture. Why put a group of 12 yo kids through a match you know they won’t enjoy?
LOL!Understood and sorry - I took from your first post you were a casual observer rather than on the coaching staff.
Perhaps a higher level of football than my lads played at (regional league) - no registration cards were ever mentioned. That said, I recall an under 15's Scottish Cup game where the opposition sported a couple of beards and after the game I saw their keeper drive his car off
Cheers,
Neil.
In our league you can't just decline a fixture you don't fancy without good reason. The club could be fined.
Our boys are top of the league at the moment and always enjoy their football it was just playing girls a lot older and bigger than them from a professional club which left a bad taste.
Cheers,
Neil.
We've had that Menno.
Both my Grandsons have been approached by Palace and Brighton but have told them they are not interested at the moment.
My youngest Grandson went to train with Millwall and Sutton United, he made quite a hit at Millwall but he didn't like the regimented style and didn't want to go back.
He's happy as he is.
Here he is when he first started league football at 7 years old scoring a wonder goal.
https://youtu.be/FT8830WML_E?si=3SEoJbp8vJcrsKT5
Cheers,
Neil.
BRAVO for that ethos
I run a girls u12 side and we share game time equally regardless of ability, we have 15 in the squad and take 12 on a match day and have a rota to ensure everyone misses the same amount of games - for me its about giving equal opportunity to all of them and the biggest strength is the team (plus they all develop at different rates)
At this age however the amount of coaches I know who select there strongest players at all costs or dont substitute them regardless of scorelines is embaressing = we are div 2 of the hertfordshire league its not the premiership
Its my biggest bug bear with grass roots football and I see it all the time a parent/coach living there dreams through there kids and taking it far too serious is all too common - I say to every manager we play before KO that Im not out to embaress anyone and should we get 4 up then they can bring an extra player on (id like to think the same if shoe was on the other foot)
Weve been beaten in the past badly and it does nothing for either team in my opinion and is moral;ly wrong for me at this age
As an example we played and won 5-0 saturday and I took my strikers off at half time and played my defenders up front in the 2nd half as game was done and the opposition added an extra player - my half time team talk was can we manage the game and not concede) its much more challenging for the kids
Unfortunately for me the lure of making it as a pro and the £££ glory involved has meant everybody wants to make it as a pro when the reality is so few do
tyNot at all.
My Grandson is one of the better players and joint top scorer, but I would say that wouldn't I?
We play 9 - a side at that age group and have 12 players in the squad which are switched around so they all get plenty of minutes during the game.
We don't let anyone sit on the sidelines too long.
Bravo to you also, exactly what was needed and a great experience for your defenders, and respecting the other team also.
I played hockey competitively from that age until I was 17 & found it frustrating when I was kicking arse to be taken off, but as I grew older it made so much sense for my team and the other.
Just wish my school had a wider view that makes only played football, rugby or cricket. Didn’t help my development, that’s for sure.
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Fine saying they are not interested at the moment but it can be a fantastic experience. My lad went to a top club academy from age 8. He loved the experience and travelled all over the place playing football, China, USA, Spain, Austria, Israel etc. and saw and experienced stuff most lads his age would never see. He made his first team debut in the Premiership and had a good 8 years plus on a professional contract. A combination of injury, bad management and being not quite good enough (he has never been physically big which is almost essential for top level) meant he was released but has had a good few years at lower level after having played in Carabao Cup, FA cup and Europa Cup. He now plays part time (still on decent money) and is glad he had the chance at top level.
Even he is something like one of the lucky 1 in 200 at a Premiership academy that actually goes on to play in the Premiership. The vast majority don’t make it and then having missed out on education have to start a new career from scratch.
So I agree it’s not for everyone and it needs a special type of determination to make a successful career. If however a boy is good enough it is extremely rewarding, and I personally wouldn’t turn down the opportunity if it was offered.
Top of the league getting beat by a goal against a girls team a couple of years up ?
Think you need to tell them to try harder.
Looks like you have a team of flat track bully’s !
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It seems to be different rules depending on the governing body. In Scotland it’s all done by birth year. Girls, I believe, can play 2 years down against boys but boys can’t play down at all.
We’re in Fife and I coach my son’s 2013 team. Our age group has a tiered approach with a development, mid and advanced tier acting has stand alone groups - there is no league as such. Scores are not broadcasted but after each game the 2 teams are required to submit a monitoring form to the league which details things like result, winning margin, behaviour etc.
If the score in a game reaches more than a 4 goal swing the losing team is permitted to bring on an extra player and the winning team should also introduce measures to even the game up (e.g. restrict number of touches etc).
If a team is consistently winning by more than 4 goals per game for 3 or 4 games in a row they are automatically moved up a tier and the reverse is true if a team is consistently losing. So in theory, all of the games should be reasonably even.
The education plays a very important. When I was 17 or 18, my own class at school was partly filled with (mainly) girls who attended a ballet academy after school hours. My school had an agreement with that ballet academy to be sure that ballet and school would 'match'.
And when I was teaching, every now and then, we had a boy (no girls sadly) that attended soccer academies nearby. We had interesting moments when there was a parent / teacher / pupil meeting. The parents & kids were always accompanied by a person from the academy to hear about school.
y
Similar here.
We have ladder matches so that teams are assessed after every game and streamed into different leagues to try to even up the opposition which results in much closer games.
I recall when my youngest Grandson was starting out and were beating other teams by a good margin the opposition could bring on an extra player after x goals and another after y goals so often they were playing 5 v 7.
Later on of course the ladder system made for much closer games.
Cheers,
Neil.
Education should be paramount I agree Menno.
Unfortunately many academy kids set their mind on a professional career and are training three times a week to the detriment of school work.
When the pro career doesn't materialise, and it doesn't for 90% of kids, what are they left with?
Cheers,
Neil.
That was my point. My lad did four days a week school and one day and one evening training. They wanted to go to three days a week school and we said no, on the basis if he was good enough to make it then an extra days training wouldn’t matter. We emphasised how important education was after football careers had finished and he left school at 16 with nine GCSE’s. Some of the other players didn’t make it and now do some pretty poor jobs as a result of not concentrating on education. Between 16 & 18 they have the opportunity to do a BTEC in various subjects.
One of his best friends didn’t get English or maths first time round but is currently earning £50k a week so in his case it didn’t matter but, as you say for the majority (99+%)that don’t make it, it can be difficult.
My lad has gone “part time” which has enabled him to get a golf handicap of 4, is training to be a financial advisor and going for an assessment centre at a major investment bank in a few weeks, so I guess I’m saying there is room for both education and football but it is about getting the balance right.
Definitely.
Good luck to your lad in the future.
Cheers,
Neil.
The mercy rule you talk about is in effect in most leagues that arent competitive usually art u12 age group - it goes out the window after that and our league has a 9-0 deficit as the mercy rule now whereby you can call the game off but carry on if you wish to do so but again I think that is pointless hence why I have a conversation with the manager and agree before the game starts that at 4 up you can add an extra player - I actually dont think losing to such a high profile side by the odd goal you talk about is a bad thing - it was competitive from the sound of things (Id guess you are used to winning most weeks hence the frustration???)
As I said in my earlier post the pressure to win comes from parents/coaches etc in my view and is very very wrong and shouldnt be the barometer at this age group you should be teaching them the importance of teamwork the ability to win and lose well, the importance of the role they have in the team and most importantly to have fun regardless of score which I am sure you do
Interestingly enough the number of Girls in particular who stop playing all sport in there early teems is alarming and a massive issue for all sport so Im all for the girls showing the boys how its done
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/56360438
Last edited by R0bertb00th; 1st November 2023 at 16:54.
This is something that resonates massively with me as others have alluded too the attitude of some parents stinks have a look at the you tube videos below that demonstrate how much of an issue it is far better than I can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Qyqk56t0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Be-ob7Dz7A
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Last edited by R0bertb00th; 1st November 2023 at 16:03.
12, 13, 14 is a funny time for kids... my u13s are all pretty average height and we've got several u12s playing a year up and one u14 playing a year down (although he's only about a fortnight too old), but every week the opposition seems to have a player or two that look at least 16. Last week there were a pair of twins who must have been 5'10 and I'd swear they drove home! I'm looking forward to the day when I turn up for training and our CBs are a foot taller.
Technically you are allowed FA dispensation to play a year lower. Our yr 9 lad has Asperger's so his dad applies to the FA each season so he can stay in our team with his mates.
That middle paragraph is right on the money.
I hate to say it but I dare say the boys lack of enjoyment of this fixture may well (partly) reflect the adults attitude towards it.
Maybe a different approach for the return fixture?
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That is how I see kid's sport (the ideal)...................
This is something that resonates massively with me as others have alluded too the attitude of some parents stinks have a look at the you tube videos below that demonstrate how much of an issue it is far better than I can
So - why are parents so super-competative for their kids (football) ?
Do they see it as being a ticket to riches for an otherwise dullard child? If that attitude isn't as prevalent in rugby, tennis, dinghy sailing, swimming - then why so in football?
I’ve seen pushy parents in all sports, I just think it’s more visible on the touch lines of junior football.
In sailing oppy parents are legendary for being a nuisance.
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