Reply With QuoteHi,
Compared to the whole universe, earth is the equivalent of a grain of sand, so there must surely be other lifeforms out there.
Regards
Bry
Recommended youtube vid>
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TXfOzhZGtNw
Seems like the net may be closing in and sources pressured by Congress to reveal what they know. Open testimony of 'non human biologics' retrieved from alleged crash sites, although I guess that means it technically could be a cat!
Hi,
Compared to the whole universe, earth is the equivalent of a grain of sand, so there must surely be other lifeforms out there.
Regards
Bry
Recommended youtube vid>
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TXfOzhZGtNw
Last edited by Bry1975; 27th July 2023 at 09:20.
Doesn’t follow and equally, out there doesn’t mean they are UFOs.Originally Posted by Bry1975
There has been evidence of UFOs for decades.Ive seen all those out of focus pics and videos,from the 50s.
Although now everyone has a mobile phone that takes crystal clear pics and vids strangley nothing recently!!!!!.
And even the video supposedly videod by the US airforce over the sea wasnt clear,and yet if asked about their photo technology theyd be smug to say these cameras can read the newspaper a man is reading on a park bench from miles up!!,that would be crystal clear wouldnt it!!.
I basically don't believe anything anyone says any more. Up until a few years ago I assumed that most conspiracy theories, including UFO's/Roswell etc where just rantings of a small group of nutters - and all nonsense. Now I tend to think that if the existence of UFO's suits a particular cohort of powerful people - then UFO's will magically exist. If it's preferable to the cohort that they don't, then they will be 'proven' not to exist. Same goes for the benefits of Brexit, existence or not Hillary Clintons emails, Joe Bidens laptop, Russian interference in third party elections, genocide of the Uighars, even as far back as WMD, the list goes on.... and that's not to mention the alternate reality that Boris Johnson and his bunch seem to think we minions live in and will take to be true!
We have travelled quite some distance over the last few years - in the direction of a cynical post-truth reality IMO. I don't believe any of it! Sorry rant over!
Nah, it was a dog named Paul.
1. “Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.”
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
But this version of the ‘Fermi’ paradox actually *decreases* the likelihood of any life visiting this planet, because you’ve got to believe…Hi,
Compared to the whole universe, earth is the equivalent of a grain of sand, so there must surely be other lifeforms out there.
Regards
Bry
Recommended youtube vid>
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TXfOzhZGtNw
1. Of the billions of stars out there the life is massively more advanced than ours, because getting here would require unfathomable technology…
2. Said super advanced lifeforms choose this planet out of the billions of stars…
3. They do so hundreds of thousands years ago before we saw them, or could know they were here…
4. OR they do so in no more than the last few decades (nice timing!) yet…
5. Choose not to make that extraordinary achievement clear, instead doing it in a way that allows a government (and according to the crank at Congress, the Vatican!) to cover it up.
Um, ok!! 😬
As we have discussed before, there is no doubt that intelligent life is out there, there is also no doubt that it is too far away to visit us.
Let alone the argument as to why they might do so.
We may love (and a the same time attempt to cripple) our little rock, but it and we have little to offer any visitor that has travelled the necessary distance to get to us.
So whilst there may be unidentified flying objects, they will be explicable.
scientists have failed to find any/many examples of solar systems with gas giants on the outer . They suspect that the influence of the gas giants in our solar system plays a critical role in safeguarding the inner planets from asteroid and comet impacts . And that this relationship also luckily started just after enough comet impacts had brought the bulk of oceanic water to earth,
this points to our solar system itself being somewhat unusual /rare .
distances : assuming the light barrier cannot be broken ( and nothing faster than light has ever been observed by us in the universe) the distances involved are too large for human beings to traverse , its likely that any intelligences travelling the galaxy would have to be relatively immune to the timespans involved even with time dilation at speeds close to C . that wpuld suggest machine intelligence is the only entity capable of interstellar travel. And machine intelligence may therefor be a natural evolution of bioligical life .
However the fact the galaxy is not already teaming with machine intelligence travellers points to life and intelligent life being exceptionally rare . Also any vehicle travelling at close to C would emit huge amounts of radiation including x-rays which would be
easily detectable by us out to a radius of about 100 light years by now and historically even further back in time givensome luck . We haven’t which suggests no one out there is travelling that fast .
We might be able to download our conciousness into machines in the near future . those machines could either shutdown for the long periods of time required between destinations or live full lives in virtual environments until reaching a destination and downloading into robotic or even biological bodies built on arrival.
A more sinister theory “the dark forest” developing civilisations are destroyed without warning by ither more advanced civilisations lest they become dangerous . Within a few hundred years of meeting any civilisation no matter how behind in advancement may go on to become an existential threat ; given the stakes its merely pragmatic to just exterminate any intelligent life encountered .
this may explain the seeming lack of evidence for extra terrestrial life ; any civilisation making noise is going to get croaked ; we’ve been broadcasting obvious and easily detectable radio transmissions for over a century which means anyone with technology even a hundred years behind us would be able to detect and identify where we are out to a 100 light tear radius . The extermination craft may be on the way .
some people suggest that an interstellar war is pointless and expensive in resources . however its quite easy to accellerate mass up to high enough speeds to be extremely destructive ( think artificial asteroid impacts) we can already do that ourselves with current technology. ( which clearly gives us a threat potential)
Also anyone capable of accellerating to even 1/3 the speed of light can yse the same principles to create planet destroying weapons “kinetic bombardment” that could effectively wipe out all life on earth …
They might exist and they might not? Hopefully if any do pass this way, they won't see us as a snack while they're passing.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I´m not so sure about consciousness into machine in the near future business...I suspect so much of what we call consciousness evolved, depends upon our human senses to generate the specific qualia...unless the machine forms are so advanced as to represent a meaningful simulacrum of a human body or instead lab grown human bods, and we can find a way to decant the mind from the old into the new...seems unlikely this´ll be a near future leap forward, especially given our rather pressing climate, water, food related concerns.
Last edited by Passenger; 27th July 2023 at 11:52.
There is not a scrap of real evidence that Aliens in space ships ever existed, its a joke that people in 2023 try to make out this is real
Surely the answer isn't to give up though. Truth hasn't stopped being truth and the means for arriving at truth haven't changed. We've just been bombarded with bullshit as well. Surely that makes working out what is signal and what is noise even more important, not less?
Oh, they are already here, walking and living amoung us. I suspect the majority are working in Royal Mail sorting offices.
They seem to crash a lot, assuming you believe the stories coming out abou them.
Given that to get here you'd expect decent reliability why do so many apparently fall from the skies?
There are a couple of dozen commercial plane crashes a year despite tens of thousands of flights a day, are our skies really full of aliens or are their craft built by fiat?
They probably get hit by all that crap that we have left floating around up there.
I saw a horrible documentary about an alien. It burst out of a guys chest and grew up really quickly and killed all but one of the crew. Thankfully it was cat friendly and left the puss alone.
Anything to do with UFO crashes is clearly nonsense.
Imagine the intelligence and technological advancement required to construct and navigate a vehicle capable of traversing inter galactic distances or utilising wormholes effectively yet when they belatedly get here they can't park properly!
That’s solely your opinion.
Not at all, totally accepted wisdom, given the vast extent of the galaxy.
We have identified several "goldilocks" systems that might support life (in the same pattern as our life, ignoring the possibility of life based on different chemistry), all within high tens or few hundreds of light years from us.
Given that the universe is 93 billion light years across, it is generally regarded as a total certainty that advanced life is out there.
Re light speed.
As a pedestrian somone coming towards me I can easily move out of the way and so no collision.
So to light speed travel & all objects in the path of a spacecraft at all speeds upto and including light speed specifically.
How far ahead would a computer have to be observing to miss any object in its path that could end space exploration before its started.
So before getting to the speeds to navigate the universe we surely need the computing power to plot a safe path thru God knows what......that itself can't be easy to do if not impossible.
Or was out there once, or will be in the future, but not necessarily now.
It's just not.
Intelligent life forms…no chance, the odd bacteria living under some ice shelf, quite possibly.
And I'd agree, if only we didn't exist. Because as we do, we have one example of an evolved high tech society. I don't know what the odds against that are, but I do know that whatever those odds are, then compared to infinity the odds of it happening again are way above one. The only problem is that they will, on balance, be infinitely far away. So put me in the yes but too far away to ever notice us. Which, for all practical purposes, is the same as not existing anyway.
I used to live by this rule
I dont normally commit to threads like this, but this is probably the most accurate post. Note my use of "probably".
Thank you. Probably ;)
Its taken “us” 4 billion years to get from a few simple cells to full on free thinking human beings. 4 billion years is a 3rd of the life of the universe. We are just a long series of incredible moments of luck. We could have been hit by a passing asteroid 1 billion years ago and we likely would never existed OR at least sent on a path that wasn’t perfect for what we know of life now. It just so happens that we've been pushed pulled and hit close enough to our sun to make life conditions perfect for us. Im not sure if that amount of luck could happen again in the universe despite there probably been billions of “similar” planets as ours.
In saying that perhaps other life forms have flourished with different temperatures, different levels of gases in the atmosphere etc.
Christ now im not so sure!
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 27th July 2023 at 20:19.
Some lifeform has to be the most intelligent to have evolved in the universe, it could well be us.
It certainly isn't you.
You are quite right.
However, whatever the odds against it, if you have an infinite number of lottery tickets and a finite chance of winning, your number will come up.
As it happens we were hit by exactly that sort of meteorite - that's what we call the KT boundary, That's just one near extinction level event that did for the dinosaurs, some of which were rocking interesting brain to body ratios, To get an idea of the variety of early life that didn't make it through, for example, the Cambrian Mass Extinction, have a look at The Burgess Shale. That we are here now doesn't make us special, merely here. As long as life carried on, which it did, through several mass extinction events, something interesting was bound to crop up eventually. Life has adapted to whatever the universe has thrown at it so far and once it gets going, then it tends to hold on, on Earth at least.
Ive actually amended my previous comment as i think we think of life as we know it. Its not to say that given a different set of circumstances a different life form exists that perhaps breathes nitrogen instead of oxygen and 6g gravity is normal for it.
An article in the latest Skeptical Inquirer magazine calls this the LIZ (Low Information Zone):
“LIZ refers to the distance or set of circumstances at which UFOs are recorded when the resulting eyewitness account, image or video contains insufficient information to identify them, even as non-human craft.
Historically, UFOs have stayed at just the right distance so that they can’t be identified. Hence, in photos or videos they appear as fuzzy blobs or points of light. Even more curiously this distance seems to vary by if the viewer has a camera and then by the quality of the zoom lens on that camera. With better cameras and better lighting conditions, the UFOs get further away.
The ability of UFOs to stay in the LIZ has led many to conclude that UFOs are mostly, or entirely, identifiable objects like planes, birds, and balloons, and that the reason that UFOs are all in the LIZ is because if they were closer, or had better lighting or focus, then they would be identified and not be UFOs.
UFO Enthusiast: We have thousands of videos of UFOs.
UFO Skeptic: Any that are not in the LIZ?
UFO Enthusiast: Well, no, but there’s so many of them!”
In other words, UFOs are by definition a self-selecting group, and are destined never to be definitively identified, because as soon as they are, they are no longer unidentified flying objects, but a bird, plane, balloon, or, as I have seen most recently, insects, buzzing the camera at close range.
I reckon we’ll have meaningful machine intelligence walking around in 100 years . The test as to whether they are truly self aware /alive will be moot and jo more testable than it is for humans .
As to uploading and downloading human minds ; won’t work that way . you’ll get a data set which has complexity based on measurable data about you but it won’t be you . You won’t wake up
in a robot body but there will be a personality thats in there that shares many of your traits as a starting point . Its not you though , its something else . certainly not lesser just different .
Very interesting this LIZ! Thanks for that. In a way the testimony yesterday was also a verbal LIZ: 'I have spoken to people who...'. It looks and sounds as a very firm statement, but it wasn't: it was all 2nd or 3rd hand 'evidence'.
Maybe theyve seen the huge reduction in Rolex and stopping by enroute their holidays to grab a bargain.
deep space is hugely empty , navigating through space is reasonably straight forward as its essentially mundane newtonian physics and very few other factors .
travellng at a significant fraction of C has lots of issues the closer you get to C the more your mass increases so the more energy you need to increase speed . By the time you hit C you need “infinite” energy ( or possibly just all the energy in the known universe).
if you are travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light and you hit a tiny speck of matter it will probably destroy you (: solution is to build your spaceship onto an asteroid so you have hundreds of feet of nickel iron to absorb any impacts … scifi shields are over rated) .
But really navigating is the least of your worries.
Even getting to 0.01% of C is beyond us currently by the way . So getting into single digit percentages would be a huge advancement .
Even then lets say we get to C … given the size of the universe its still not very fast! Even in Star Trek and Star Wars they travel in warp or hyperspace to shortcut things as even the speed of light is too sliw to get from A to B .
here’s a lovely bit of info animatiom from NASA
https://youtu.be/l4u4wV_dOi0
also apparently we are capable of detecting objects in the immediate area moving at high relativistic speeds , there is an MIT paper about it which is beyond me I’m afraid bit something yo do with Lorenz radiation and relativistic bodies emitting more radiation than they can absorb due to their frame of reference ? which means that not only are things moving at. lose to C dangerous from
a kinetic energy perspectivethey are also extremely radioactive . And we’ve so far not detected anything .
at 90% C it would still take 1 million years to reach our nearest next galaxy… that is terrifying .
and we can currently go at 0.0054 % C ( new horizons ; unmanned probe)
the whole star trek thing is likely about as realistic as peter pan and fairies .
space is huge and even C is not very fast
The chances of life (on another planet) are about the same as the chances of me meeting my wife, considering the billions of people on the planet and the chances of being in the same place at the same time, with the right circumstances... nevertheless I did meet my wife....
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Cool, we agree.
Yes, but whoever you had married, you'd be saying that of, which cuts the odds a tad!
it already been said, the distances involved are so large that you would need to travel at many multiples of C to get anywhere and the tech for that (if possible ) would make us look like ants - all that tech just to 'crash' when they got here.
.... theres also the chance that the cosmic speed limit of C may just be the top speed of the hard drive we are on :)
And when they crash here why do they almost always choose to do so in the USA?
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Free coffee refills.
In the unlikely event that an advanced alien species does visit this planet we better hope they don't have high ecological principles otherwise we may find ourselves the subject of some kind of population reduction intervention.
They may view us as we view rats or locusts.
Do you reckon this machine intelligence would smell coffee or bread baking and have a rush of memories triggered, could it anticipate the taste of a fresh juicy orange or apple, be delighted by a sunrise or sunset...?
Thank goodness I'll be long gone.
Do robots dream of electric sheep?
Last edited by Passenger; 28th July 2023 at 09:08.
They´ll quite possibly preserve a few breeding pairs for further study and experimentation, a zoo- curios or pets for billionaire Aliens, perhaps!
Last edited by Passenger; 28th July 2023 at 09:15.
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