My mother has a 1950s house with crittall windows and has decided she wants double glazing. 12 windows and a set of French doors, she has been quoted £18k for aluminium frames and about £4.6k less for UPVC. Obviously she wants the aluminium ones, for unspecified reasons.
I know nothing about the ways of double glazing but assume there's some negotiation in there (she's been told if she pays £5k in cash for the aluminium ones they'll knock off £800), and I want to get at least one more quote too.
She needs to move closer to me soon, ideally within the next couple of years (she says five), the house is too big and cold and two years ago ignored my advice to have double glazing fitted, paying instead £6k to have the windows, sills and doors painted. Paint which is now peeling off. I can't help think she's just going to pay what 'the man' tells her to pay and not listen to me again, but if you can offer any advice - decent suppliers, what kind of discount I should be able to negotiate and so on - I'd be grateful.
"A man of little significance"
We've had two houses done in the last 18 months, house one was 1/3rd of the original quote, house two was 2/3rds of the original quote, both UPVC as they are tenanted and will probably be sold within two years, the big companies have far more haggle room.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
We had some new windows installed at the back of the house last year, I deliberately avoided the big companies as I can’t be bothered with their underhand sales practices. 5 UPVc triple glazed windows came to £2900 inc Vat and that’s outer London and includes some pretty big windows (2m * 1m being the biggest).
We have aluminium ones in the kitchen including French doors and I wouldn’t get them again - they are so cold in the winter. Maybe newer ones are better, these were installed around 2010.
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Move now and let someone else pay for the double glazing.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I’ve got 13 large uPVC windows being fitted next month, half of them have to be with toughened glass due to height from the floor, and the best quote I got was £10k. That’s in Buckinghamshire.
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Thanks everyone. Please keep the comments coming, I'll show them to my mother, she likes taking advice from men she doesn't know over her 50-year-old son. But seriously, the more advice I can show her the better.
"A man of little significance"
UPVC (I suspect like anything including Alu) vary a lot in quality - some profile manufacturers are better than others and consequently can cost more.
IDK if current gen Alu have resolved the pitting issues of old (I guess so?) but UPVC will outlast her darling son.
If she has white windows now then it’s a no-brainer to me - UPVC. Assuming it’s not modern architecture they all look the same from 25 yards.
Find a local and established supplier-fitter.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Simon, we paid about 11k to have our house done in upvc 8 years ago. That's 12 windows including three big ones, that 11k also included a Solidoor front door and some side panels which was well in to four figures. So you Mum's 13k doesn't sound that far off.
A few points to bear in mind:
- Beware not all UPVC double glazing is the same both in terms of product quality and installation. Try to go on recommendation from someone locally who has had the work done recently.
- There may well be some making good inside and out that will probably not be covered by that quote. You may well require the attentions of a plasterer at the very least, especially as the crittals may put up a fight and the size of what is going in is not the same as the size of what is coming out.
- Aluminium will be a slimmer profile and will look more like the crittals, if it makes the house look better then you may get more than the 5k back on the sale. (Mum and Dad lived in an Arts and Crafts house with crittals, it would have looked dreadful with modern upvc glazing).
- Don't even think of going with any of the nationals e.g. Everest
- No double glazing company ever gave their best price first time, not ever in the history of the world. That said, don't push them too hard or they'll cut corners.
Wrt to OOK's point, I disagree. Buyers always knock more off for work that obviously needs doing than it will cost "That needs new windows, sucks teeth and knocks of 30k".
Last edited by Jeremy67; 19th June 2023 at 17:40.
£12k paid for 13 windows, front & rear doors in April of this year. White uPVC for the windows and composite wrapped doors, privacy glass in three windows. Went with a national name as the reputation / reviews of the local installers were very variable.
Does she want the aluminium ones because they’re a modern replacement for Crittal with a similar narrow profile?Originally Posted by Foxy100
Many uPVC installation look crap esp. with small openings where the frame might have a similar area to the glass.
I strongly suspect she wants aluminium because someone (perhaps, and I'm guessing here, a double glazing salesman) has told her that's what she needs.
"A man of little significance"
Consider the possibility of re-glazing the Crittall units with the new slimline Double-glazed units filled with better gases (provided that the existing units are in good nick).
We are refurbishing a property that id glazed with Crittall units at the moment, we are re-glazing the opening units with Argon filled slimline DG panes (total about 12mm thick) and secondary glazing the fixed units with large panes in order not to obstruct the Crittall profile.
No, she has decided on double glazing and isn't going to change her mind. But thank you for the suggestion!
"A man of little significance"
After quickly googling Crittall windows - if going for UPVC go for astragal bars rather than Georgian bars.
Being externally mounted they are much more convincing and less 80’s pastiche.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Having just semi retiring from my Brothers window company after 41yrs on the tools, all I can do is give you an insight to how he managed a very successful company thru 4 decades.
When visiting potential customers he always listened to their needs and gave his valuable experience in design, materials and the most cost effective way to carry out any works. The overall quality of doors & windows have come an awful long way and roughly after any 10yr period a new advancement has been made that makes the update more permeable and worth doing. There is no better product as to say, both Upvc and aluminium have their own benefits and downsides. Aluminium will always be roughly 40% more expensive. He then put together a comprehensive quote which included all materials, installation and all making good to interior & exterior surfaces. A 12month warranty on all materials, followed up with a 10yr guarantee on installations and protection from draughts and water ingression. His first price was his only price, no negotiation as he knew it was his ‘best’ price as he wasn’t in the game of loading the price to see if he could get away with it and if not discount down. No deposits required, no invoice of any kind until complete satisfaction with the quality of materials & workmanship. We had many very satisfied customers who would happily invite future potential buyers to visit their homes and view our products and installation standards. We kept numerous photographs of completed works along with appraisals from over joyed home owners who trusted us to transform their properties. We were all employed fitters so he could keep control over standards and fitting diaries himself, no sub contractors were ever used. We encouraged customers to get at least 2 other quotes for comparison and we’d happily go back and talk over our quotations against others pointing out what we offer as standard compared to other competitors. We weren’t always chosen and he never once called the customers back touting for work, either they wanted to use us or not. But it was their choice and we would not influence them or give a hard sell. If you follow a few of these things I’ve mentioned you should end up with the correct choice of materials, at a correct & fair price and fitted to an acceptable standard to you are happy with from a reputable company who employ well trained, time served employees who are accountable to the Boss if things are not where you wish them to be.
Another consideration is you cannot compare quotes on a national basis as every town/City/County has different monetary factors for businesses to work with, a quote in South Wales is going to be considerably cheaper than one from the Home Counties. As a very rough rule of thumb we used here in the Bristol area was whatever white Upvc is quoted at, mahogany Upvc +10%, Upvc anthracite grey +15%, Upvc trend RAL colours +20%, white aluminium +45%, RAL coloured aluminium +50%, Smarts Hertitage (Crittal) RAL aluminium +70%, custom made hardwood timber +75%. This was only a guide to give potential customers a quick idea what different products would cost against each other.
What many people don’t know is that many double glazing companies source from the same manufacturer.
Not many manufacturers will make UPVC with astragal bars, and only Whiteline (largest UPVC manufacturer) did 12 years ago when we wanted replacement of our single glazed wooden windows.
All 3 quotes we got offered Whiteline as standard as that is who they buy from. Quotes were within £250 of each other. We didn’t negotiate on price as nothing was being artificially inflated.
As above, the installation was important to us, so we went with the company that had only employees as fitters. He guaranteed his most experienced duo and that swung it for us.
12 years later the windows are still great.
Ignore Everest and similar company crap and go with a reputable local firm.
In fact when we had it done our neighbours (identical house) asked which company we used and then just rang them up and told them they want the same job.
As for UPVC or aluminium, go for the latter if your house has the character to demand it. Our house is 1940s bomb infill, and UPVC was the right decision for us as it is not the prettiest house on the street.
Whereabouts is she based? Apologies if I have missed it but may help forum peeps provide some recommendations.
I'd be wary of anyone offering a discount for part cash..... What she's been quoted sounds expensive to me.
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She's in Alton, Hampshire. I'm off in that direction later and will be asking a couple of friends for recommendations.
The cash thing doesn't look like much of a deal for her in any case. In fact, it looks what she'd pay in cash would simply be some or all of the discount they'd factor in anyway.
"A man of little significance"
And thank you for all the replies, I've passed them on. Mummy Foxy100 doesn't usually listen to me but 'the man' is a running joke in my family simply because she'd trust the opinion of any random 'the man' on the street (especially if he looked honest, had a furrowed brow and a Ronseal accent). I'm yet to see how she treats the opinions of random men from the Internet but will let you know how it goes.
"A man of little significance"
That’s an aesthetically pleasing approach, albeit that reglazing Crittal windows with slimline sealed units still leaves the biggest problem, namely the cold bridge inherent in old steel window frames. I believe there are modern Crittal frames with a thermal break, but the cost would be astronomical compared to uPVC.
A very very rough guess the £5k won't be going thru the books....
In order to avoid the dreaded sales techniques of many dubious double glazing companies. I would personally recommend approaching some top notch manufacturers directly and ask them for approved installers in your mums area. Try Comar and Kawneer, both aluminium and excellent quality. I have been using their products for decades in many construction projects and keep specifying them to this day. I have to confess I don’t do residential work but they are the only windows and doors I fit in our Fire Stations and Offices.
www.comar-alu.co.uk
www.kawneer.co.uk
I would speak to Joedan in Winchester. It's what used to be called Wessex Windows and have traded for years offering both UPVC and aluminium. I've used them for various things, no pressure selling and absolutely no quibbles over service call outs.
That is true about the cold bridge, but the secondary glazing (with the inherently larger gap) performs better than most DG, so the balance of reduced losses is pretty fair.
Here is a photo of one of our 14 year Whiteline UPVC astragal double glazed windows, so you have a point of reference (the sill could do with a bit of a wipe down!).
They probably do them a little slimmer these days.
^^^^
The down side with astragal bars are that the scribe onto the window frame is gappy and unsightly, and looking from inside to out you see all the rear of the bar shows the adhesive tape or fixing brackets as shown on the top transom bar, that would drive in insane every time I looked out the window.
Is that a true 90degree corner post? Or just a flat angle spanning the 2 windows as you can see the profile edge detail which protects water from going under the window on the cill?
Funnily enough they gave her the first quote...
"A man of little significance"
No, the first picture is deceiving. It is more like 120 degrees as looked from the inside. The wood needs a lick of gloss paint.
Very surprising if they are the ones offering a discount for cash. County Windows are apparently pretty good as another local option
I guess the cash will go straight in someone's pocket and the rest is what she'd have paid had she negotiated.
"A man of little significance"
Basically cheapest uPVC will rough out at £1k per window unit including fitting. Forget any ideas of being environmentally friendly though and be very enquiring/critical of how they are going to fit them and what finish they leave.
As this is most definitely not a forever home for us, we went for uPVC, £8k for 10 windows (Victorian sash style) with bare wood finish left on inside trims which I sanded/primed immediately and painted over the following couple of months. The top quote we had was £22k which included fully finished and painted trims inside.
On any home I intended to stay in, I'd buy Aluminium/Steel and, as advised above, buy windows and get a builder to fit rather than approach the minefield of double glazing companies (we got a good one on recommendation from the 4 neighbours who all used the same place).
Avoid scum like Anglian etc. at all costs.
We used www.cristalwindows.co.uk for our UPVC windows / French doors, following a recommendation from a mate & they were brilliant. NB - Not Crystal, but Cristal
Steve Cornish was the MD, but he may have retired now.
Caveat - It was a few years ago that we used them, but their Check-a-trade rating is still very good https://www.checkatrade.com/trades/c...servatoriesltd
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Crystal were hilarious when they came to quote us a good few years back. The guy turned up in an M3 CS or CSL and with fancy alloys he said were something like £8k extra. It sounded unreal but so did the quote and we didn’t use them.
Yes, with double glazing companies, you are entirely dependant on the fitter you get. Knowing who's doing the work in advance is the best option.
Just agreed to send someone round to quote for 10x windows on the front elevation of a rental house I have. Windows are 30 years old wooden sash double glazed but have been a pain to paint and need changing now.
Haven’t got a quote yet for UPVc but what should I be thinking?
Photos of an identical house that has been done just up the road with the upvc windows I will go for.
House is in Norfolk - I am hoping for £6k but may be way out. Never had a window replaced and the numbers in this thread are highly variable on a per window basis.
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Arouny10k for you to buy
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