Brompton and other folding bikes

[proby24]

Good Morning:

Firstly, I am pretty new to bikes in general. I mean, I used to ride plenty of bikes growing up in the 1980s, but I imagine like many things, the technology changes fast.

I am looking to buy a Brompton or similar bike for urban cycling (around London) but also to take down to Sussex and use in the countryside. I likely need a bike with a decent selection of gears for varying gradients. In an ideal world, the bike would be super-light, but I appreciate the saving in weight comes at a serious financial cost!

I like the idea of a Brompton, the sturdiness of the bikes and the longevity of the brand. Re-sale value is not of immediate concern, but does indicate a good brand in general.

What should I be looking for, considering Bromptons and/or other brands. I will likely be buying new and taking advantage of the 'Work-scheme', unless that is an absolute bargain second-hand (what do I need to look out for here if I do go for the latter).

Many thanks in advance. Alex.

[tertius]

I think your challenge is that you are combining two quite different requirements - the Brompton will be superb about town but sub-optimal in the countryside, and especially on any serious hills.

If your budget is suitably generous you could look at a Birdy folding bike.

You could (whether Brompton or Birdy) consider an electric option. I have no experience with the electric versions of either but imagine it would resolve the uphill side of the hills challenge quite satisfactorily … not so sure about the downhill side mind …

[gunner]

Do you definitely need to take it on the train a lot? The cost of a Brompton or Birdy would get you a nice non-folding bike for each location.

[noTAGlove]

Good Morning:

Firstly, I am pretty new to bikes in general. I mean, I used to ride plenty of bikes growing up in the 1980s, but I imagine like many things, the technology changes fast.

I am looking to buy a Brompton or similar bike for urban cycling (around London) but also to take down to Sussex and use in the countryside. I likely need a bike with a decent selection of gears for varying gradients. In an ideal world, the bike would be super-light, but I appreciate the saving in weight comes at a serious financial cost!

I like the idea of a Brompton, the sturdiness of the bikes and the longevity of the brand. Re-sale value is not of immediate concern, but does indicate a good brand in general.

What should I be looking for, considering Bromptons and/or other brands. I will likely be buying new and taking advantage of the 'Work-scheme', unless that is an absolute bargain second-hand (what do I need to look out for here if I do go for the latter).

Many thanks in advance. Alex.

Brompton 6 speed C line. You will need the 6 speed for any type of hills, which you Matt think is not needed now, but will future proof you .The P line is too expensive for the small weight saving.

Engineered to outlast you. All parts are modestly priced and widely available.

Fantastic resale. Not that you will ever sell it.

Mine sits by the front door for constant errands or a quick lunchtime cycle around the park. Obviously a doddle for trains, and sits in the boot of the car for exploring.

A Cyclescheme should get you one for less than £1k, or ~£85pcm out of your salary which you will barely notice.

Buy cheap, buy twice. No

[wileeeeeey]

You are not going to find a light Brompton with a range of gears. The P and T lines are the lightest (unless you go for a second hand super light) and the gear ratios aren’t great. Many upgrade (breaking warranty) to increase this range.

A three gear £1.3k C Line has more range than the four gear £2.3k P Line. It doesn’t make sense.

I bought a decathlon fold up for £350 and rode it maybe 4 or 5 times as a test before going on the Brompton and although heavy and more awkwardly folding than the Brompton it has much more range - 6 or 7 gears I think.

[M4tt]

Another vote for the six speed Brompton, but if folding is more about going in a boot then consider a space framed Moulton as they are vastly competent on road and about the only thing built better.

[wileeeeeey]

If budget and resale isn’t an issue but you do want folding Kinetics in Scotland will build you a custom Brompton with 20 inch wheels and 14 gears.

The version you might be most interested in is called MtBrompton. I would love one.

https://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/fo...ikes/brompton/

[stuie-t]

I have 2 folding bikes which I use regularly.
1st up is an old Dahon Vigor, which I have upgraded with a decent 10-speed group set and Swytch pedal assistance system. I think it came to about £1k all in so a good saving on an equivalent Brompton e-bike.
Next is a Tern Verge X11, which is an absolute rocket ship. Narrow 451 aero wheels, 11-speed SRAM group set with carbon cranks, and I put some NOS XTR disk brakes on it so it stops as well as it goes. It doesn’t fold as small as a Brompton but the trade off is it rides much more like a normal bike. I got it as an ex-display model for about £1500, I think they retail at £2,800 now




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[OldHooky]

Another vote for the Birdy, and I've had 3 Bromptons since. If the fold and folded size is critical to you then there is no alternative to the Brompton. But for a decent fold option and a far, far superior ride then the Birdy blows it away. Faster, 27 gears, way more comfortable and handles the dreadful British roads with greater ease.

If you want something with larger wheels there is the Airnimal. Great ride but a much larger folded profile.

Moulton are of course in a field of their own.

[bry nylon]

I bought one of these:
https://www.halfords.com/bikes/foldi...?tabFocus=true

in 2019 and it has been handy to stick in the back of my Corsa van when I have had to leave the van on site and cycle home, or to pop up to my local shops.. Never gone further than 8-9 miles on it though and it just has a 3 speed Shimano Nexus hub gear.. The gearing seems a bit high - would not want to use it in Devon or Cornwall . It weighs 14kg but due to the 20 inch wheels it rides really well. Folds up quickly and v comfortable - currently £365 in Halfords.

They also do this for £460 ; https://www.halfords.com/bikes/foldi...tory=undefined

which is 1kg lighter and has 9 speeds and disc brakes. They also do an 8 speed version which is cheaper.

In short - check out the Halfords range as they are good value- especially if you're not intending to take them on the Tube etc

[noTAGlove]

Another vote for the Birdy.

Can you still buy Birdy bikes in the UK, and are parts and servicing easily available? I thought they had almost totally focussed on SE Asia as a market.

[OldHooky]

A veritable feast: https://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/produ.../folding-bikes

[Longblackcoat]

I've had Trek, Dahon and Brompton folding bikes and Brompton are superior on just about every level. Crucially, they're light years ahead if you commute and don't want to carry a rucksack; the range of luggage and the quick/small fold is invaluable if, like me, you're getting onto a crowded train most days.

I've got the 6-gear C-line Explore which is great as transport and has a wide range of ratios. If I were taking a bike out for a pleasure ride, then I'd use something else because the 16" wheels mean that it's a choppy ride and also there are wide spaces between ratios, but I use it as an urban chugabout and it's perfect for that. The small wheels seem indestructible and there's a reason for the overall high weight; they simply don't break. I'd not bother with the Ti versions - at £4k+ the cost/benefit isn't there for me and it's got a 4-speed derailleur which simply doesn't give the gearing range I'd like.

Absolutely no point buying secondhand - they hold their value really well and as you can get one on a Cyclescheme it's cheaper that way plus it's shiny and new.

[Carlton-Browne]

Remember that you can specify the Brompton with gear ratios that are more hill-friendly (I did). It makes sense to do this up front if/when you order as it'll be a pain to retrofit. Strongly recommend that you get some test rides and I'd include Birdy in there (even if the fold looks a little more complicated). Funnily enough I was looking at Airnimals last night...

[Rod]

Definitely a 6 speed. Bromptons are great for hard surface riding, but not good on loose surfaces.
If your in Surrey area, go to Brilliant Bikes at Sunningdale and chat with them. Superb service and advice.
I bought mine off Kerry on this forum, it's an S6L, which means straight handlebars, 6 speed, long base.

[xxnick1975]

Have you ridden a Brompton much before at all?

You haven't mentioned much about commuting, or multi mode transport etc. If you are just wanting to ride around London, use a Santander, Uber Lime, or similar bike. Literally everywhere and cheap to use.

Then get a proper bike for actually riding in Sussex.

The best thing about Brompton is the fold and how compact they are. So if you are limited in storage space, or have an awkward journey, they can be handy. But for riding they are very limited really.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[proby24]

Have you ridden a Brompton much before at all?

You haven't mentioned much about commuting, or multi mode transport etc. If you are just wanting to ride around London, use a Santander, Uber Lime, or similar bike. Literally everywhere and cheap to use.

Then get a proper bike for actually riding in Sussex.

The best thing about Brompton is the fold and how compact they are. So if you are limited in storage space, or have an awkward journey, they can be handy. But for riding they are very limited really.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

Many thanks for all the advice so far chaps, it has been very helpful (and taken up my whole morning down some rabbit-holes!). Love the Kinetic take on Bromptons.

It looks like the 6-speed Brompton C-Line is the one for me. Just to add a few other comments about my use for the bike.

I potter around London a lot, and love to walk everywhere. So this is an extension of that and opens up range and/or time. I am going with a folder which can be thrown in the back of my Golf or on the train for when I head out of London. My flat has limited space and no place for lock-up, so the folding format is ideal.

I also have a small place in France, and I am considering the Brompton here as the airport is 14km away from my apartment (and taxis are very expensive). And then, of course, I have bike options once I am there. Can the Brompton be stowed as hand-carry? Not a huge problem if not.

[wileeeeeey]

Electric Brompton cannot be carry on but apparently manual (or electric without the battery) can be.

You can rent a C Line Explore for a while and see if it’s for you. £5 per 24 hours and you can keep for about a month at a time.

If you buy through Brompton they give you a degree of the rental money back. There is also a ULEZ initiative to get 10% off C Lines only I think.

[Carlton-Browne]

The Brompton is not feasible as hand-carry and you'll need a hard case for check in. I have one of these:


https://www.b-w-international.com/en/bike/cases/b-w-foldon.case

You'll be able to use the cardboard case it comes in for the first couple of flights but it will get shredded pretty quickly.

[noTAGlove]

Can the Brompton be stowed as hand-carry? Not a huge problem if not.

Generally no, but has been done in the US.

Lots of YouTube videos on how to take your Brompton by plane, and how to pack it in a soft bag, so you can cycle the other end without lugging a huge hard case around.

[Longblackcoat]

Have you ridden a Brompton much before at all?

You haven't mentioned much about commuting, or multi mode transport etc. If you are just wanting to ride around London, use a Santander, Uber Lime, or similar bike. Literally everywhere and cheap to use.

Then get a proper bike for actually riding in Sussex.

The best thing about Brompton is the fold and how compact they are. So if you are limited in storage space, or have an awkward journey, they can be handy. But for riding they are very limited really.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

Actually, I think the best thing about them is the carrying capacity. Having luggage that just clips to the front of the frame is brilliant and way better than any of the other folding bikes I've had. The actual folding is genius, but in truth I don't need it that much smaller than my Dahon (though it's nice). The way it handles with a laptop, clothes, shoes, a bunch of papers - there's probably 6-7 kg in there a lot of the time - is distinctly better than the other bikes and marks it out as far better thought out as an urban transport solution.

[noTAGlove]

Definitely a 6 speed. Bromptons are great for hard surface riding, but not good on loose surfaces.
If your in Surrey area, go to Brilliant Bikes at Sunningdale and chat with them. Superb service and advice.
I bought mine off Kerry on this forum, it's an S6L, which means straight handlebars, 6 speed, long base.

Have you ridden a Brompton much before at all?

You haven't mentioned much about commuting, or multi mode transport etc. If you are just wanting to ride around London, use a Santander, Uber Lime, or similar bike. Literally everywhere and cheap to use.

Then get a proper bike for actually riding in Sussex.

The best thing about Brompton is the fold and how compact they are. So if you are limited in storage space, or have an awkward journey, they can be handy. But for riding they are very limited really.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

Fully agree with Rod and not so much with Nick1975. I will ride my brommie anywhere so long as the trail is not rough or loose. To give you an example of just how useful they are I recently had some meetings in the Middlesbrough area, had never been to that area, and was interested in doing some exploring as the weather was forecasted as nice.

I took the train up with the bike, and then explored the coast from South Gare and Paddy's hole through to Saltburn, all along the coast. Then stayed in Saltburn and used my bike to commute to the office along some lovely hard trails and road. If I hadn't have taken my bike it would have been straight to the hotel and taxis everywhere. Boring as anything.

Plus, when I take the train to see my parents up north, the brommie is always with me to give the flexibility to zip around or go on an impromtu bike ride.

Apart from general commute this is what brommies are great for and would never be without mine.

[pacifichrono]

The Gocycle electric is one fine foldable.

[wileeeeeey]

Took my Brompton to work today for the first time. Turned a 34 min walk into an 8 minute cycle. Bit awkward getting out of Liverpool St in rush hour with the battery bag too but not the end of the world.

I have a voucher for another one ready to go but think I’ll cancel it and just stick with the P Line electric. I can catch a later train and arrive at work earlier. Magic.

[noTAGlove]

^^^^Ditto.

Sailed past a mile of traffic queueing for the bridge over the Thames this morning. Usual bottleneck.

25 mins to do the 7 miles to work this morning, and with electric walked in as fresh as a daisy. It would have taken 45 mins by car.

I enjoyed the fresh air and minor workout.

[wileeeeeey]

Might try this on the way home and skip the train. Forgot to bring my Aftershokz which is annoying but got to be better than a sweaty train

[noTAGlove]

Might try this on the way home and skip the train. Forgot to bring my Aftershokz which is annoying but got to be better than a sweaty train

To be honest, if you are just using a bike to get you the mile or two from the rail station to your place of work, then an electric brommie feels a bit of overkill.

A standard brommie is great for that and lighter and easier to manipulate around the rail station and on the train.

Where is does come into its own is for those longer journeys where you skip the train, as you suggest above.

[Meesterbond]

Question for those with a 6-speed Brompton...
I service a mate's Brompton and each time I do he tells me the 2 speed rear derailleur has stopped working. I dismantle it, clean in, rebuild it and it's fine again for a little while... until it gets gunked up with dirt and general road cr&p and stops working again.
He commutes on it most days and it has a pretty hard life but is this normal?

The Sturmey Archer is, of course, absolutely bulletproof so he's always got gears to play with but the 2 speed mechanism really annoys me!

[noTAGlove]

^^^^^Given 14 inch wheels the derailleur is much closer to, and around 7 inches from the ground, and will pick up a lot more crap than a regular bike.

Sounds like he needs to keep on top of general cleaning of the chain, gears and cogs, and they will crap-up a lot quicker than a full size bike.

[wileeeeeey]

To be honest, if you are just using a bike to get you the mile or two from the rail station to your place of work, then an electric brommie feels a bit of overkill.

A standard brommie is great for that and lighter and easier to manipulate around the rail station and on the train.

Where is does come into its own is for those longer journeys where you skip the train, as you suggest above.

Definitely agree but I only have one Brompton right now so just used it today just because I could. Wouldn't dream of buying one for an 8 min ride but it was nice nonetheless. Plus side however is I now have the chance to cycle home now whereas on a regular Brompton it's train station and back only.

A P Line electric is 12.7kg plus a 2.9kg battery whereas a standard 6 gear C Line is 12.2kg so there's barely anything in it. A C Line eclectric is 14.5kg plus the 2.9kg battery. Where is gets interesting is 12.kg for the C Line vs 9.99kg for the P Line but then you have the gearing range issue to contend with. One of my friends has a £5k cycle to work limit -- with that I'd be tempted to get the T-Line just for the sake of it but after having a go on mine he'll probably get the electric P Line.

[noTAGlove]

Definitely agree but I only have one Brompton right now so just used it today just because I could. Wouldn't dream of buying one for an 8 min ride but it was nice nonetheless. Plus side however is I now have the chance to cycle home now whereas on a regular Brompton it's train station and back only.

A P Line electric is 12.7kg plus a 2.9kg battery whereas a standard 6 gear C Line is 12.2kg so there's barely anything in it. A C Line eclectric is 14.5kg plus the 2.9kg battery. Where is gets interesting is 12.kg for the C Line vs 9.99kg for the P Line but then you have the gearing range issue to contend with. One of my friends has a £5k cycle to work limit -- with that I'd be tempted to get the T-Line just for the sake of it but after having a go on mine he'll probably get the electric P Line.

Once I shed the extra 5 kg around my waist, I may worry about the weight of the bike.

I don’t have to regularly lug mine around stations, but they are built to roll nicely along smooth ground like platforms and concourses.

[wileeeeeey]

Once I shed the extra 5 kg around my waist, I may worry about the weight of the bike.

I don’t have to regularly lug mine around stations, but they are built to roll nicely along smooth ground like platforms and concourses.

The problem with the body weight is it’s easy to carry but when it’s hanging off your arm it’s a different story.

If you have 5kg to shed I might have 50kg to warehouse

[noTAGlove]

The problem with the body weight is it’s easy to carry but when it’s hanging off your arm it’s a different story.

I agree with that. And you notice the additional weight of the C-line electric.

But I have become a dab hand at rolling the bike, and if not it is a free workout of my guns, or more should I say pistols.

[Boss13]

Haven’t ever tried riding one of these but saw a chap in London a couple of days ago riding one.
Blimey they look for uncomfortable and awkward.

Maybe I need to try one to see what all the fuss is about! Although I don’t have a use for it really as not a tube goer.

[noTAGlove]

Blimey they look for uncomfortable and awkward.

If nothing else than a giggle drop into Brompton Junction in Covent Garden with ID and a credit card and they let you test one out. Same for any dealer really.

Totally comfortable, fast and agile to ride.

Only major downside is that the bike is a bit twitchy given the small wheels. I certainly don’t take my hands of the handlebars when travelling at speed.

[Templogin]

Moultons are separable, not foldable. It's a faff and the Brompton is miles better at being smaller.

I have some small-wheeled bikes: 3 Moultons: a TSR8, an MBP 21-LR and a Mk2, the TSR8 is an eBike conversion, a Tern Verge 18, a Brompton M6R, and a Strida SX. Rule out the Strida straight away as it safest folded up in the corner somewhere.

The Moultons are well made and relatively light, although some non-Moulton bits like the brakes and front wheel nuts on my e-Bike are rusting. Small-wheeled bikes are fairly horrible to ride at first on anything but smooth surfaces, and the smaller the wheels the worse they are. The Moultons and Tern have 20" wheels, the Brompton has 16" wheels. The front suspension is good on the later Moultons, sort of leading link suspension. As with the Brompton they have a rubber "bung" rear suspension. There is no suspension on the Tern.

I have ridden a Moulton (TSR30) on a 500 mile cycle tour loaded with front panniers, rack pack plus tent, roll mat, sleeping bag etc. It was do-able, but not pleasurable, so I bought a Thorn eXP expedition bike, this has 26" wheels. The only suspension is a Thudbuster seat post.

My recommendation would be have a Brompton for the city if you must fold it for train or car travel, or you have a lack of space at home or work. Ride a large wheeled bike if possible, and have one in each location. If you must have a Brompton to serve all purposes, then the 14 speed conversion would be good but those hubs are heavy. If you can get it built on the Titanium frame then that would be a better bet. Search YouTube for Brommieloff.

I forgot to metion the Sclumpf drive, which can be used on a Brompton. Good for doubling the gears available.

[Boss13]

If nothing else than a giggle drop into Brompton Junction in Covent Garden with ID and a credit card and they let you test one out. Same for any dealer really.

Totally comfortable, fast and agile to ride.

Only major downside is that the bike is a bit twitchy given the small wheels. I certainly don’t take my hands of the handlebars when travelling at speed.

May just do that next time I happen to be that part of town.
But then I would need to find a use for it!

[Stevoc]

I live in London and cycle to work - pre covid, 5 days/week, nowadays 3 days/week. Some years ago I bought a Brompton (I'd always fancied one and had a C2W voucher available) - I really like it, but don't use it anywhere near as much as I should as I'm able to ride a full-size bike for most journeys - it's main use seems to be as a pub bike :)

Inspired by this thread, I decided to commute on it today - my 11 mile commute in, normally takes me 45-50 minutes on a gravel bike - the Brompton this morning took me 53 minutes - the main issue was spinning out on the flat (it's a 2 speed)

Pleasantly surprised by that

The journey home is normally slightly quicker - will see how it goes

[Templogin]

May just do that next time I happen to be that part of town.
But then I would need to find a use for it!

A wise man once said "just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it"!

[noTAGlove]

But then I would need to find a use for it!

My wife drove down to Standen National Trust house in West Sussex a couple of weeks ago with the MIL. Id already been (so has my wife), but fancied a day out.

Wife and MIL went into the house and I took off on the brommie to explore East Grinstead and surrounds. It is amazing the good uses it can be put to, but they are not for everyone.

[wileeeeeey]

May just do that next time I happen to be that part of town.
But then I would need to find a use for it!

I’ll bring it and you can have a go when you sell me your BLRO for list

[Meesterbond]

^^^^^Given 14 inch wheels the derailleur is much closer to, and around 7 inches from the ground, and will pick up a lot more crap than a regular bike.

Sounds like he needs to keep on top of general cleaning of the chain, gears and cogs, and they will crap-up a lot quicker than a full size bike.

I can't argue with that, the state of the thing when it gets to me to service would indicate that there's not a lot of cleaning happening in between.

[Carlton-Browne]

I’ll admit to being a largely fair weather cyclist but my six speed Brompton is 20 this year and the derailleur has been solid throughout.

[BillN]

This is what you want a good old SA AW 3 speed hub, a little worn but it is over 40 years old

[BillN]

^^^^^Given 14 inch wheels the derailleur is much closer to, and around 7 inches from the ground, and will pick up a lot more crap than a regular bike.

Sounds like he needs to keep on top of general cleaning of the chain, gears and cogs, and they will crap-up a lot quicker than a full size bike.

16 inch wheels on a Brompton

14 inch and 16 inches on a Bickerton

Here's one of the very very first Bickertons from 1972 ........ so now over 50 years old

Basically Andrew Ritchie, at the instigation of his father, was invited by Mr Harry Bickerton to see this "Bike in a Bag" Bickerton and he then decided that he could build a better folder ... so the Brompton idea came from seeing the Bickerton Bike, which was built 10 years, in 1972, before Brompton started....... but folding bikes had been around for years before Bickerton.

[Carlton-Browne]

Were you one of the original 200 that Andrew Ritchie made to get the thing off the ground? I know someone who was one of those and, while he has no regrets, he doesn’t have many kind words for Ritchie.

[BillN]

I’ll admit to being a largely fair weather cyclist but my six speed Brompton is 20 this year and the derailleur has been solid throughout.

derailleur = Brompton called it a "Chain Pusher"

[BillN]

This is the Actual Bike from the 1986 Cyclex Show that started the success of Brompton with the introduction of the Mk2 in 1988 - (the Mk2 had the "improved" main frame bend which is seen today on Brompton's)
The following year at 1987 Cyclex Show Brompton won the Cyclex Product Award

Originally a Red and Black Mk1, (they were all Red and Black), as the Red/Black one above, then converted with upgrades that would be incorporated in the Mk2 which was introduced in 1987......... I call this Bike the Mk1.5....... and it's Bike number #085

Julian Vereker, (of NAIM audio fame), a substantial early Investor in Brompton, was influential, Sales and Marketing "wise" in the early days of Brompton and he felt that another colour, black would help sales, - Julian died in year 2000 -

[wileeeeeey]

Between those and the Porsche you’ve got some pretty cool things hidden in the house, Bill! Pieces of history. Very, very cool. Well done for keeping them all so immaculate.

[BillN]

Between those and the Porsche you’ve got some pretty cool things hidden in the house, Bill! Pieces of history. Very, very cool. Well done for keeping them all so immaculate.

Thanks .... just thought I'd add a bit of Brompton history to the thread

I gave the Porsche to my son and he has promised to past it on to his son, my grandson ..... it's a 3.2 Carrera, from 1989 ...... so air cooled
(that's probably why I fancy another old one, maybe to restore......... I have another grandson!!)

I have quite a few Brompton's - I have "lightly" restored quite a few older ones

.......... and then there's my Daytona R90S