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Thread: Found my stolen watch on Chrono

  1. #51
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    The thought that you might be English turns my stomach hence why I asked some time ago.
    LOL

  2. #52
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    This thread escalated quicker than the police report, that's for sure!

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    Itís possible theyíre not the original thief but Iím not sure itís probable. Most adverts on C24 arenít from individuals which says something. Either they donít want to go to a dealer as they stole it, or theyíve been to a dealer and realise itís been stolen.
    My reason for saying probable is the 2 years gap between the theft and the sale. Not certain by any stretch but for this kind of money they are usually not that patient, and those who are, are usually clever enough to hide the serial number.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    The advert is genuine as its verified by Chrono so he has had to pass their test before listing.

    Fortunately the guy who stolen them is in-famous in holland for scamming people for anything from property to jewellery and luxury cars (were talking in to the millions here) and I helped the police in Holland a lot with their investigation. The officer I helped has contacted chrono for the info of the seller and is trying to help but Chrono are useless so far, we have to contact via their generic customer service email address, no one knows how long it will take to reply or notify the police. They dont seem to care.

    Insurance didn't payout, as the seller done a fake transfer and I handed the watch over it was void.

    The seller must know its fake, as soon as you google the serial number its listed on countless forums as stolen. Surely he would have checked this, his profile is from 2018 so he clearly has some interest in buying/selling watches on chrono.

    Lets see what happens, if nothing then I will buy the watch through chrono using their escrow service and fly to Holland for it, do the deal and then revoke the payment after i have left.
    I would not have known to do that until reading this. Not everyone is internet savvy and keeps up to date with different watch fora - I only know this one and that because I was introduced to it by another member on here. I don't know of any other watch forum. So the buyer could be as niaive as me.
    Like everyone else, I hope you get your watch back and I shall be very interested as to the steps taken to recover it. Watching with interest.

  5. #55
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    I must admit it would drive me nuts knowing where my stolen watch is and not getting the reaction I wanted from the police or the platform.

    I suspect the vendor is in the dark as they have exposed the serial number. Although many criminals are not that bright Ö

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I must admit it would drive me nuts knowing where my stolen watch is and not getting the reaction I wanted from the police or the platform.

    I suspect the vendor is in the dark as they have exposed the serial number. Although many criminals are not that bright Ö

    The serial number was blurred out on the card however on one pic you can zoom in and read the serial number from the dial.

    No info from Chrono yet but I have been given anonymous info which I hope to share later but you can all stop defending the guy now as this goes much deeper than a Chrono advert.. Hopefully I get a good result but I will update you all..

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    The serial number was blurred out on the card however on one pic you can zoom in and read the serial number from the dial.

    No info from Chrono yet but I have been given anonymous info which I hope to share later but you can all stop defending the guy now as this goes much deeper than a Chrono advert.. Hopefully I get a good result but I will update you all..
    Rest assured we are not defending the other guy, just trying to convince one of our members to remain in the right side of this story, for his own sake.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Rest assured we are not defending the other guy, just trying to convince one of our members to remain in the right side of this story, for his own sake.
    This.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Rest assured we are not defending the other guy, just trying to convince one of our members to remain in the right side of this story, for his own sake.

    Thanks!

    It is very frustrating knowing your stolen watch (possibly watches!!) are found and for sale but you are in a different country and can not do anything about it.

    Hopefully Chrono get a move on and pass the relevant info on, the officer I am dealing with has said to them this is urgent and we need to react fast yet he is still waiting for an email reply. Customer service just give you the usual 'we are working on this and will send the relevant info in due course' but they have confirmed the office was in touch via email yesterday.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    Insurance didn't payout, as the seller done a fake transfer and I handed the watch over it was void.

    The seller must know its fake, as soon as you google the serial number its listed on countless forums as stolen. Surely he would have checked this, his profile is from 2018 so he clearly has some interest in buying/selling watches on chrono.
    Confused by this, thought the watch was stolen not fake.

  11. #61
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Confused by this, thought the watch was stolen not fake.
    You are not the only one.
    Which watch was fake? the one stolen, the one on chrono 24, Neither, Both?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnlover View Post
    You are not the only one.
    Which watch was fake? the one stolen, the one on chrono 24, Neither, Both?
    fake transfer suggests the payment was fake not the watch????

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by troymcclure72 View Post
    fake transfer suggests the payment was fake not the watch????

    It does, confusion for the sake of confusion....
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  14. #64
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    Sorry guys, trying to keep this up to date a bit while doing a million other things.

    The watches are real, the transfer was fake and from a neighbour/friend who turned out to be some mega scammer whose done this is whole life.

    Check out the lost and found section of the site for my original post with more info.

  15. #65
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    Found my stolen watch on Chrono

    Iím following this thread because my curiosity is killing me: how will this end? Itís Twin Peaks all over again
    Best of luck to the OP !


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    Last edited by majstro; 16th May 2023 at 12:45.

  16. #66
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    Sorry guys, trying to keep this up to date a bit while doing a million other things.

    The watches are real, the transfer was fake and from a neighbour/friend who turned out to be some mega scammer whose done this is whole life.

    Check out the lost and found section of the site for my original post with more info.
    Ahhhh I understand now!
    I hope you get your watch back but do not take the law in to your own hands no matter how tempting it is.

  17. #67
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    To the OP, I feel for you, but I would sit back and wait for the police and Chrono24 to act. In your shoes I wouldnít be sitting easily, the frustration must be hard to bear, but I think patience and trust are the best tools you have at this stage.

    I also thing the seller is likely to be a victim too, one who is unaware of the watches stolen status and the lack of title.

    I do hope you get it back.

    D

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    To the OP, I feel for you, but I would sit back and wait for the police and Chrono24 to act. In your shoes I wouldnít be sitting easily, the frustration must be hard to bear, but I think patience and trust are the best tools you have at this stage.

    I also thing the seller is likely to be a victim too, one who is unaware of the watches stolen status and the lack of title.

    I do hope you get it back.

    D
    Unfortunately the seller is not a victim as I suspected and this is not his first time handling stolen watches/goods, thats all I can say for now..

    We are still 'patiently' waiting for Chrono, as far as I am aware this is all the officer needs to get the ball rolling.
    It really makes you think twice about buying and selling on Chrono as this is not the first time I have seen a stolen watch on there and there is absolutely no rush on their part to help me.

    Also to add the seller is not the initial scammer (my neighbour), through my efforts I got him locked up in Belgium in 2021 for countless more scams, he wormed his way out of jail after about a year with the sick card (apparently he could not walk and was on deaths door), he was then on house arrest in Holland where he miraculously made a recovery and was followed by the police in good health (seen riding bikes around the Hague!), in the end he scammed over 100.000E more from people and was arrested again last month in the Hague and is still in jail now awaiting the trial.

    If anyone is interested I could write about him for hours but once the dust settles I will share a FB group I created where I found over 40 victims within a matter of weeks from all over Europe, its makes for interesting reading and includes countless luxury watches, jewellery, luxury cars etc which were all scammed from people.

    Forget the 'tinder swindler' this guy would scam him out of everything he had lol.

  19. #69
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    Best of luck with this, sounds like a bit of positive news there anyway.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    Unfortunately the seller is not a victim as I suspected and this is not his first time handling stolen watches/goods, thats all I can say for now..

    We are still 'patiently' waiting for Chrono, as far as I am aware this is all the officer needs to get the ball rolling.
    It really makes you think twice about buying and selling on Chrono as this is not the first time I have seen a stolen watch on there and there is absolutely no rush on their part to help me.

    Also to add the seller is not the initial scammer (my neighbour), through my efforts I got him locked up in Belgium in 2021 for countless more scams, he wormed his way out of jail after about a year with the sick card (apparently he could not walk and was on deaths door), he was then on house arrest in Holland where he miraculously made a recovery and was followed by the police in good health (seen riding bikes around the Hague!), in the end he scammed over 100.000E more from people and was arrested again last month in the Hague and is still in jail now awaiting the trial.

    If anyone is interested I could write about him for hours but once the dust settles I will share a FB group I created where I found over 40 victims within a matter of weeks from all over Europe, its makes for interesting reading and includes countless luxury watches, jewellery, luxury cars etc which were all scammed from people.

    Forget the 'tinder swindler' this guy would scam him out of everything he had lol.
    Makes me wonder if he ever tried his luck on the Dutch 'Horlogeforum'....
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  21. #71
    As this was getting more and more confusing, neighbor, fake watch/transfer, etc...I went digging for the original thread (would have been thoughtful to link to it directly IMHO) and found it https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ghlight=stolen - somewhat clarifies what happened, not that the C24 seller is in on the scam though.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by webvan View Post
    As this was getting more and more confusing, neighbor, fake watch/transfer, etc...I went digging for the original thread (would have been thoughtful to link to it directly IMHO) and found it https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ghlight=stolen - somewhat clarifies what happened, not that the C24 seller is in on the scam though.

    Like I said I have a million things on my plate at the moment, excluding the watch so when I get a minute I am trying to keep you guys in the loop between appointments or while travelling so apologies if its a bit mismatched but the back story of this is not relevant and thats why I did not link the original post. I was hoping someone has been in a similar predicament with Chrono and could share their experience, the who's and how are not relevant to the current situation.

    Final update for today - Chrono emailed the officer and he replied to them with the required report and thats it, another day gone.
    Now we have to wait again tomorrow for Chrono to get his email and see what their next steps are.

    Very frustrating you can not talk to the people direct, only customer service who dont have any info on the case.

    They have blocked the sellers account so he will be spooked and the longer we leave it the less likely I am to get it back. My only hope is the info supplied to Chrono when listing (ID etc) is genuine and the police can pay him a visit. At least that gives me a lead if the watch/watches has gone.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by helidoc View Post
    To the OP, I feel for you, but I would sit back and wait for the police and Chrono24 to act. In your shoes I wouldnít be sitting easily, the frustration must be hard to bear, but I think patience and trust are the best tools you have at this stage.

    I also thing the seller is likely to be a victim too, one who is unaware of the watches stolen status and the lack of title.

    I do hope you get it back.

    D
    In the UK, the police often classify theft as an Insurance matter. They are too busy policing hate crime and hurty words.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bestofthebest View Post
    In the UK, the police often classify theft as an Insurance matter. They are too busy policing hate crime and hurty words.
    I agree that the chances of the police doing anything at all are zero - even if it was deemed to be a UK crime.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bestofthebest View Post
    In the UK, the police often classify theft as an Insurance matter. They are too busy policing hate crime and hurty words.
    Fortunately when this happened my case was one on a very big list and probably one of his 'smallest' scams so there was already arrest warranty in various countries for him, even then though we had to push the police to do anything. If it was a one off and he had tried his luck I can almost guarantee nothing would have happened to him. In Spain you would file a report, which would sit in a pile for months, then get passed to a superior and lost along the way before it hits a judge. The policing over here is unbelievably poor.

    As expected... no update, still waiting for Chrono which is very very annoying. They need to step up their game big style if they want respect from the watch community as its not been two days and we are no further forward. They know the watch is stolen and are still dragging this out.

  26. #76
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    OP, you never answered below. I am also curious what you think Chrono24 should do?

    Quote Originally Posted by J3w3ll3r View Post
    Serious question

    In a perfect world

    What would you like/expect chrono24 to do in this situation?


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    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    OP, you never answered below. I am also curious what you think Chrono24 should do?

    In their words on Monday it would be dealt with promptly, they would remove the advert upon receipt of the police report (granted this was done on the evening), their security team would then notify and work with the police in holland and hand everything over along with the relevant details needed (ID and proof of address).

    Its been 48 hours now and the police are still waiting for the ID and proof of address. The officer handling this has asked me to reach out and make it a priority yet Chrono just keep stating they have a team working on it yet no one (including the police) is receiving anything. I called them again just now and told them I need to talk with the security department/the employee handling my case but he's out on lunch so I have to call again later..

    If I had known it would take this long I would have just pretended to be a buyer for the watch, gather as much info as I could and handed that over.

    I am fully aware most police are under staffed and this is a minor crime to them but my issue is that Chrono has the information needed to get the ball rolling and we are still waiting 2 days later.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    OP, you never answered below. I am also curious what you think Chrono24 should do?

    Also just to add, Chrono fully took this on themselves. As soon as I had notified them of the watch, the ball was in their court.
    I expected them to do nothing initially as they are simply a marketplace but they seemed confident their security department could handle it, so lets wait and see..
    Last edited by GC2012; 17th May 2023 at 13:57.

  29. #79
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    Well another day coming to a close and no further forward, the officer has called Chrono too and canít speak to anyone other than customer service. They are now saying 2-3 days to provide the information.

    I donít know what else they could need from us just to hand the details over to the police!

    I will get my lawyer to call tomorrow too and add some more pressure but itís beyond annoying sitting here waiting for Chrono to release the info when we know a stolen watch is being passed around online trying to find a buyer.

    IMO it will probably be gone by the time the police get the info and to the address.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    Well another day coming to a close and no further forward, the officer has called Chrono too and canít speak to anyone other than customer service. They are now saying 2-3 days to provide the information.

    I donít know what else they could need from us just to hand the details over to the police!

    I will get my lawyer to call tomorrow too and add some more pressure but itís beyond annoying sitting here waiting for Chrono to release the info when we know a stolen watch is being passed around online trying to find a buyer.

    IMO it will probably be gone by the time the police get the info and to the address.

    I have a feeling that your last sentence is ultimately what's going to end up happening and it's going to slip through your hands!

    Hopefully not...

    Olloydy

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olloydy View Post
    I have a feeling that your last sentence is ultimately what's going to end up happening and it's going to slip through your hands!

    Hopefully not...

    Olloydy

    My only hope is that we then have a lead as to who sold them and by starting criminal proceedings against him (or at least threatening) might make him confess to where it has been sold.

    Slim chance but stranger things have happened.

    These watches are marked stolen all over the place (especially in the Netherlands) so they will struggle to shift them legally, letís see what happens.. hopefully by Friday we will have some kind of update.

  32. #82
    Must be incredibly frustrating.

    Not impressive at all from Chrono 24. Seems like the police just need some basic information and they are sitting on their hands. You think they'd have a dedicated point of contact for this sort of thing. Will be terrible for their reputation.

  33. #83
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    Chrono appear more interested in money than the law, pathetic. I wish you a successful outcome OP, but Iím not expecting it.


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  34. #84
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    Time for the OP to edit the thread title and add the 24?

    Their PR team will love it when this page starts showing up on google searches.
    Last edited by Dynam0humm; 18th May 2023 at 02:34.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanK View Post
    Must be incredibly frustrating.

    Not impressive at all from Chrono 24. Seems like the police just need some basic information and they are sitting on their hands. You think they'd have a dedicated point of contact for this sort of thing. Will be terrible for their reputation.
    You would think so but just the customer service guys who dont know any info about the security department so you just get the generic 'we are working on it and have a teat for this type of thing' reply.

    They were notified on Monday by myself and the police along with the original police report, the advert was removed that evening so they were aware of it and confirmed it was the stolen watch. There is no reason why the police should not of had the sellers name, address and ID the following morning. Neither myself or the police can understand what is going on here and why it is taking three days.

    I have emailed this morning demanding the info is passed to the police as they are now just getting in the way of the police doing their job and for no reason at all.

    As I said, if this watch has gone then Chrono are to blame as they have allowed a dodgy seller minimum 3 days after blocking his account to sell the watch on. If the police had got there the following day chances are it could have been there or just sold and easier to track.

    Lets see how they handle it today.

  36. #86
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    I assume there is no data of the amount of stolen watches that find their way to new owners through the platform. Yet I can see how they are motivated not to be as efficient as they could be.


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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynam0humm View Post
    Time for the OP to edit the thread title and add the 24?

    Their PR team will love it when this page starts showing up on google searches.
    I have watched thread from start very saddening situation and it would appear CH24 have not handled it very well they could have simply bought it themselves using a member of staff as a buyer, put money in Escrow until watch in their own hands then use full force of the Police without releasing funds to seller and ensuring watch eventually gets back to you OP the rightful owner.

    and yes I understand vendor might be unaware and innocent but I am sure they would have a good reccolection of where they purchased it from and proof of payment / bank records ?

    By panic removing it they have potentially allowed the watch to once again evaporate.

    CH24 need to escalate and involve Directors who will be only too aware how damaging this saga could be to their business model if it's possible for stolen watches appear for sale without subsequent remedial action.


    Think I would light up the switchboard and get stuck into Linkedin for an hour

    https://about.chrono24.com/en/team/#...0in%20practice.
    Last edited by TKH; 18th May 2023 at 09:14.

  38. #88
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    Iím wondering whether you may have a care against Chrono24 for gross negligence?

    If you go and a couple of cases go against them, theyíll soon improve their act.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Iím wondering whether you may have a care against Chrono24 for gross negligence?

    If you go and a couple of cases go against them, theyíll soon improve their act.

    I thought this too, if the watch has gone I feel it is down to Chrono24 (mostly so) and they should be held partially accountable. They were told by the police straight away to react quickly and they didn't/haven't dont that.

    There was no need for them to step in and block everyone else, including the police from proceeding with this. The police have emailed and called about 3-4 times now and still nothing. The stupid thing is we dont even know what they are doing in the meantime as we cant get an update, for all I know it could getting no attention at all.

    I also feel that blocking his account was a stupid move, they should have disabled messaging so it was still listed but no one could make contact or buy it so the seller was unaware. By removing his account when he knows its already a stolen watch will spook him and chances are he's probably not even at the address he gave them now.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by GC2012 View Post
    I thought this too, if the watch has gone I feel it is down to Chrono24 (mostly so) and they should be held partially accountable. They were told by the police straight away to react quickly and they didn't/haven't dont that.

    There was no need for them to step in and block everyone else, including the police from proceeding with this. The police have emailed and called about 3-4 times now and still nothing. The stupid thing is we dont even know what they are doing in the meantime as we cant get an update, for all I know it could getting no attention at all.

    I also feel that blocking his account was a stupid move, they should have disabled messaging so it was still listed but no one could make contact or buy it so the seller was unaware. By removing his account when he knows its already a stolen watch will spook him and chances are he's probably not even at the address he gave them now.
    To be honest I genuinely can't think of a worse way for Chrono 24 to have handled it.

    Not responding to multiple police calls is truly shocking.

  41. #91
    What I canít understand is if the watch serial number is registered as stolen then how did it end up being listed on chrono 24 in the first place. Iíd assume they do their due diligence by running the serial number before it is listed.

  42. #92
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    A further update after a heated conversation with customer service..
    It is a public holiday today so we have to wait another day for a possible update..

    I have told them I will be in touch first thing in the morning to speak with someone at management level as the way this has been dealt with is appalling. If we are lucky we will get the info tomorrow, if not then Monday when they re-open, so the seller has had a full week to do as they wish.

    If the watch has gone, which I suspect it has then I will not let this drop with Chrono and not only looking to get legal advice I will shame them on every platform possible.

    The security know the severity of the case and to not even bother to update us or inform us its a holiday today is ridiculous.

    Also just to add.. I know of another guy who was scammed by this same individual, his Breitling ended up on Chrono with a dodgy dealer in Holland and before any action could be taken it was gone. So this is not the first time its happened that I know of.

    Their whole 'verified seller' and security etc is BS too as I have proved, they verified a seller and watch which is marked stolen on countless forums, databases etc.
    When listing a watch its not mandatory to enter the serial number too (just name, address..) its an optional field, this should be mandatory and if they want to maintain such a high reputation they should be running basic checks (even on an automated basis) to make sure this does not happen.

    Chrono used to be a safe place to buy, especially for people with little knowledge but it makes you wonder how many people are wearing stolen watches unknowingly purchased via Chrono.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    What I canít understand is if the watch serial number is registered as stolen then how did it end up being listed on chrono 24 in the first place. Iíd assume they do their due diligence by running the serial number before it is listed.

    See my last reply below, the serial number field when listing is optional so no checks at all.

    The seller blurred out the serial number on the warranty card but luckily I could see it clearly on the watch from one of the pics. If that was also blurred out then I would have never known and the seller would have been a 'verified' seller with no background checks done to the watch.

  44. #94
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Staff at a business are not going to be as emotionally invested as you in your stolen property.

    I can understand it being infuriating but follow the process, involve the police, and hope for a positive outcome.

    Your watch was long gone, the fact you have a chance at getting it back is upside in this situation although it may not feel like it.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Staff at a business are not going to be as emotionally invested as you in your stolen property.

    I can understand it being infuriating but follow the process, involve the police, and hope for a positive outcome.

    Your watch was long gone, the fact you have a chance at getting it back is upside in this situation although it may not feel like it.
    Everything has been done by the book, but chrono are just a block in the middle making this difficult.
    Thats whats annoying me, we have the police on one side willing to take this on and asking for the info needed, and then you have chrono not doing anything.

    Regardless if they are emotionally invested or not, they have a job to do and their job should be to assist the police when they are reaching out for help.

  46. #96
    Master earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynam0humm View Post
    Time for the OP to edit the thread title and add the 24?

    Their PR team will love it when this page starts showing up on google searches.

    Good shout - it's abundantly clear that the only way this grossly-negligent company is likely to cease assisting in the sale of stolen goods is by being financially crowbarred into doing so by bad publicity.


    I was already concerned by their increasing greed and declining consumer protection, but now they're yet another platform I won't be using again.

  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Staff at a business are not going to be as emotionally invested as you in your stolen property.

    I can understand it being infuriating but follow the process, involve the police, and hope for a positive outcome.

    Your watch was long gone, the fact you have a chance at getting it back is upside in this situation although it may not feel like it.
    To be fair to the OP he has clearly followed the process and been remarkably patient with Chrono 24. Probably too patient.

    I'm sure the Chrono 24 staff are not emotionally invested in the slightest but I don't think you have to be emotionally invested to return a call from a police officer investigating a crime.

  48. #98

  49. #99
    Chrono24 verification is to ask you for 2 pictures with the watch at various time's picked by them when listing.

    That is for private seller's, as for dealer's their's probably more involved.
    Either way it's a pretty poor system for verification.

    Sent from a technical device.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickie View Post
    Chrono24 verification is to ask you for 2 pictures with the watch at various time's picked by them when listing.

    That is for private seller's, as for dealer's their's probably more involved.
    Either way it's a pretty poor system for verification.

    Sent from a technical device.
    Yeah it really is, next to the images you have Chrono advertising it as a verified seller/watch with a big green tick plus other advantages of using their platform when in reality its useless.

    I imagine if you uploaded any half decent fake ID on there it would be accepted too plus there is no requirement to enter any serial numbers so it really opens the gates to criminals wanting to sell at maximum price.

    Upload your fake ID, set the time for Chrono, blur the serial number which is allowed and away you go.. some poor guy will buy it and might not find out for years to come that his new pride and joy is stolen.

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