Reply With QuoteVery cool watch and interesting article. I have some extended family that were involved in the South African Border War.
https://perezcope.com/2023/05/07/the...r-5513-milsub/
This is rare watch.
Very cool watch and interesting article. I have some extended family that were involved in the South African Border War.
That’s pretty cool thanks for sharing
Interesting article. Shame they didn’t show the caseback so we could see the military issued markings if there were any. I wonder why they used a standard 5513 rather than black out a Milsub with sword hands and 60 marker bezel insert, which was already in use for military issue.
It would be interesting to hear what the serious collectors think of this.
South African mils subs can have sterile case backs, they were only lightly engraved if they were at all. It was a simple hand engraved serial number.Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner
The key with South African issued submariners is the watch makers marks inside the case back (as I understand it talking to font of all knowledge on these)
I guess the the reason for not issuing a ‘standard milsub’ is 2 fold. They were taken off the standard production line, same as the Tudor subs and the UK milsub was a special order for the MOD. If Rolex didn’t need to modify their standard watch with a new dial and hands why would they. These black Teflon coated watches are rarer than the 5517 et all. This might be the only one left with the Teflon coating. Most would appear as a standard worn out 5513. It was also not used as a dive watch, just a rugged legible time keeper.
There is still a reluctance to wear anything that can shine / reflect light by the old timers when in the African bush. (from their bush war experiences) Watches, sunglasses and any thing else that can glint is taken off or it’s of a type that will minimise any glint. I can believe something like this was ordered. (It’s the same for anything that might create noise) it was one of the first things drummed in to me by the old boys.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 8th May 2023 at 21:03.
Thank you, very helpful. I suppose it makes sense, the Milsub was made to comply with a Defstan, these were basically a standard watch cleverly disguised.
Saw that article and thought it was very interesting.
If it was anyone other than Perezcope reporting it, my first thought would be that it was made up.
Thank you for sharing this - very interesting!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Not a very good article about a very nice watch.
There is quite a lot of hyperbole, the amount of decent information could be done on an article quite a bit shorter, cutting out all the puff.
And Teflon? WTF? No, it is not Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene) which is the brand name of a not terribly hard wearing plastic treatment added to pots and pans. One which can be scraped off with anything metallic.
This will have been the original type of PVD, like that applied to Orfina (Porsche Design) watches, which is a type of Nitrocarburising, that soaks a little distance into the surface of the metal as well as a very thin (few microns) build up on the surface, which is why this type of coating seems to "fade" on the external corners of the case as it wears off, rather than flaking off like Teflon, or cerakote would.
Most people now would graduate to a DLC process, not available at the time this was made.
Thanks Sinnlover. One of my favourite sites. A great story too.
In reference to Mr Dowling's destro PVD Sub, from inside the links:
Never PVDd a 5513
Hi DG;
I saw the watch that Tom had; the dial looked exactly the same as the normal 5513.
The watch I did was a 5512 and the PVD work was just part of what was done to the watch, it was converted to left hand wind & the work was done on a brand new Rolex replacement case. The actual PVD work was done by Jack at IWW, not by me.
It was done to show what I thought the 50th anniversary Submariner should have been; and I later loaned it to a friend, who (after he had 'bonded' with it) asked to keep it. My understanding is that he still has it.
James Dowling
The Black (Desert) 5513 Submariner
https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/show...7204#post77204
What's William Gibson wearing?
https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/w...aring.5321860/
Now my only Rolex is a collaged Submariner, by my friend James Dowling. It was probably one of the first Subs to be PVD’d, though that’s long since become a thing, with Bamford etc.
James had a 5513 case and bezel standing empty, so he obtained a NOS movement and dial and hands, all 5512. Then his watchmaker moved the dial-feet so that the crown could be flipped, right to left, better for left-handed wear. Then he had the case, bezel and crown PVD’d, but prior to that he had the case and bezel lightly sandblasted. Most PVD Subs are shiny black, but this one is matte, very somber, except for the crown, which wasn’t sandblasted. None of the things about the more modern Submariners that bug me: the trim around the numerals and indices, the sapphire crystals… A grail watch had found me, right there, and I could never have imagined it!
I don’t wear it constantly, though.
William Gibson
William Gibson on Watches
https://www.watchpaper.com/2015/07/1...on-on-watches/
"The whole purpose of mechanical watches is to be impertinent." ~ Lionel a Marca, CEO of Breguet
After much deliberation I can safely say this is my on my list of grails.
I have never much fancied a Milsub preferring the Issued SM300 but I could make an exception for this. The list is now this, the SM300, a Rhodesian AF issued Speedmaster, a 1980 issued CWC diver and SA Navy Tudor 7016. I can’t wait to win the lottery as they only way I will get them all.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 10th May 2023 at 15:11.
Love reading those old MWR threads. All the big names commenting is very interesting.
Great find John👍🏽
Thanks for sharing
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