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It all started with an oil pressure gauge, a light is good enough for most people and racing drivers
Car forums seem to be full of cars breaking down because of faulty sensors and faulty gadgets. There were far fewer problems when drivers drove their cars using their bodies as sensors and their brains to do the calculations, before sending the instructions to the rest of the body. Please add your unnecessary sensors and gadgets to the list:-
Tyre pressure sensors - regular tyre pressure gauge check or a swift kick!
Cabin temperature sensor - If it's hot turn it colder and vickey verkey!
Lane assist??? - That's just taking the p. Just drive the thing and concentrate.
etc., etc.
It all started with an oil pressure gauge, a light is good enough for most people and racing drivers
I like my car instruments.
I have a coolant temp gauge, oil pressure, ammeter, and fuel.
I like being reassured that all is well with my car's engine.
With electric cars having comparatively low range in comparison to ICE equivalents, I’m perplexed as to why there isn’t an electric equivalent to the 2CV. Wind up windows, no aircon, no heated seats or steering wheel, no mini TV replacing the dials, no electric seat adjustment, no lane keeping sensors etc - just keep it light, max out the range, keep it cheap. Surely they’d sell like hot cakes??!!
Yep, I'm perplexed too...got to be a viable option, if not now, soon.Originally Posted by RobDad
Last edited by Passenger; 29th April 2023 at 21:23.
I guess I am a millenial and I work in software, but from what I anecdotally experience and hear, it certainly seems to be gadgets that ruin cars for the most part these days. Often its a false positive, ie "lambda sensor reading is way off, put the car in limp mode until it gets checked" is often a lamba sensor crapping itself - nothing actually wrong with the car.
Its why I quite like Skodas - pretty refined mechanical engineering without the bells and whistles that show up on the VWs and Audis. On topic, one of my Octavia's few gadgets is a reversing camera - and its of course gone wrong. Case in point.
No, we are just moaning old farts!.
People want different (extra) stuff and gadgets and convenience and tech.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I like Skodas too...just sayin'.
I have to say I’m quite irritated that the current EV revolution is aimed squarely at the wealthy who - if they can afford a Tesla or equivalent - frankly can afford the fuel too. After all their last car was usually a massive 300bhp+ SUV which was the last big boys toy of choice, So they aren’t really benefiting from any savings on their motoring - which would massively benefit those who actually struggle to keep a car on the road to get them to work and back. They have currently been sold as the latest whizz bang luxury gadget with seemingly very little focus on the everyman. There’s been a global microchip shortage so limit those to the drivetrain, there’s no manual gearbox to contend with which already makes driving an EV much less mentally taxing than the car I learned to drive in, power steering which makes parking a doddle. No screens or beepers to park, just well positioned mirrors and basic skills required. Stick in a cradle for a smartphone to provide entertainment and satnav, skinny tyres on lightweight wheels and leave out any extra padding and cladding which isn’t directly safety related and I’m sure they’d be cheap enough for many to consider them as a proper alternative to an ICE car. But no, instead we get fully loaded £50k+ executive barges or tiny 100 mile range fiat 500’s and Mini’s north of £30k, with more lights and gadgets than a branch of Dixons. Call ma a cynic but I guess there’s no money to be made at the budget end?
Word.
Moaning middle aged fart, reporting for duty!
Last edited by Passenger; 29th April 2023 at 21:51.
You’re absolutely right. The trouble is the younger generation will preach to us about climate change whilst demanding 12 different types of milk/plant juice in their coffee, new gadgets every year, fast fashion and everything delivered to their door at a swipe of the internet. With the speed we seem to be heading towards a real life Bladerunner world, what they want in the future might not necessarily be what they get!
In my i3 if you select Eco Pro Plus then all of these energy sapping features are turned off. It adds about 1 mile to the range. The truth is that HVAC aside, these features use a tiny amount of energy compared to that required for motive power.
What about the weight and cost of all the motors and electronics? And all the sound deadening materials? - and I’ve read plenty of stories of how the aircon use affects range. I’m talking about not paying for it in the first place, ripping it all out, not just switching it off!
Last edited by RobDad; 30th April 2023 at 00:36.
You’re far from alone. Why do they all weigh 2 tons and have crappy range? It’s a nonsense. But then, I’m convinced electric in the current form is just an interim tech. Proprietary, unremovable batteries make no sense to me. Not sure how it’ll play out as the secondhand market unfolds now. Doesn’t feel good.
ICE vehicles also have their range reduce when you push the AC on…its not a phenomenon that only BEV suffer with.
I’m aware of that. Doesn’t really matter in my current golf diesel with a range of nearly 600 miles on a full tank though tbh. On something like the electric mini with a quoted range of just over 100 miles I’m not sure why they bother to include ac though.
Recognising that you can be unlucky and get a 'Friday afternoon' built car (is that still a thing with robotic production lines?) but my experience is very much aligned to the make of car:
- Audi. I've owned 4 in my lifetime and the only thing that has gone wrong on any of them was an air suspension pump on the current RS6.
- Range Rover. I've owned two of these: a P38 and an L322. The P38 was the most unreliable vehicle I've ever owned for niggly little faults and two big ones: slipped liner/cracked block issue and failed torque convertor. The former issue resulted in me having a 5.2ltr engine built by V8 Developments and remapped by Mark Adams (big in the TVR remapping world in the 90s) pushing almost 500bhp and immense torque........but at a price! The L322 was a lot better but still irritating due to the amount of time spent at the dealership.
- TVR. I owned a V8S and Griffith 500 in the 90s and, contrary to myth, they were both reliable. They did have minor build quality issues but nothing with the engine, gearbox or drivetrain that stopped you getting from A to B.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a car without the bells and whistles that make the experience far more comfortable and enjoyable. Of course, we all have choices and different preferences and use cases which is why the car market is so diverse.
Sort of , Citroen Ami is that sort of idea.
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I’ve seen a few reviews and it seems to have taken the idea a little too far, with a lot less practicality than something like a 2cv
The sooner cars are taxed on weight and size the better, both are a luxury and choice. Own a farm and need an agricultural vehicle like a Land Rover? Fine, go for it. Want a big SUV because you're scared, want to look very small or impress the neighbours? Fill your boots, but pay through the nose for it. Most people would get by with something like an i3 (RIP) with EV power for 100 miles and a very small internal combustion engine (roll on biofuels) for longer journeys or emergencies. Modern tech and materials are marvellous but cars seem to have too many of the former as standard and not use enough of the latter.
"A man of little significance"
Haven’t you just described a Dacia? Everything you need and nothing else, cheap to buy and run, no frills. They seem to sell well.
I don’t think the point I’m making is all that complicated - a cheap no frills EV. The responses to this thread perhaps explain why the auto industry can’t be bothered to make them. Come 2030 you won’t be able to buy an ICE car so however successful the current Dacia range, they’re toast!
Sorry, I missed the EV bit… change Dacia for MG then, that seems to be their place.
Trouble is, we’re in the early phase where the billions invested in R&D and new manufacturing techniques are being reclaimed through the resale price. It’ll take a while before EV’s get ‘cheap’ in the way we’re discussing.
Depends what the reviewers think its purpose is, and whether it's fit for it. From what I understand it was designed as a very cheap, very efficient means of short journey city transport, especially for rental companies (cheap to repair, easy to clean). Or as in the Bahamas, where tourists can't rent a normal car, you can only have a Twizzy or Ami. Has anyone reviewed one there?
I wonder if there's a motoring correspondent on Guernsey who gives really bad reviews to anything that can go over 30mph? I bet the Ami is a five-star car there.
"A man of little significance"
Hasn't Porsche (and the companies it works with) just successfully lobbied the German government to not sign up for the blanket ICE ban based on the results of the biofuel it's just shown operates in exactly the same way petrol does but with zero pollution?
I agree with your point though, we need cheap and cheerful EVs, they're perfect for so many journeys in so many places, especially cities. Unfortunately manufacturers don't make money on cheap and cheerful. Although Dacia will definitely be working on it. The Jogger is 1205kg for a seven-seater about as big as anyone could need. Sure, that's with a small one-litre engine and not EV but if they can make a small four-seater light enough it wouldn't need so much extra battery weight, and would be nice and simple.
"A man of little significance"
4 or 5 years I reckon. No worries.
I would not be too sure about that - Europe has already started to wobble on this.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I suspect - even if the deadline is pushed back by 5 years - the motor manufacturers have already changed tack by stopping production of cheap ICE hatchbacks and committing to EV. Witness the Ford Fiesta.
I just read about the new merc e class the whole of the dash is a huge end to end screen how much would that cost to replace when it’s out of warranty I can remember when car repairs were a few hundred now even run of the mill cars they are now thousands
Ugh, I hated my Skoda Kodiaq because of the idiotic technology.
Then Mrs T-7 bought the Skoda Octavia Technology model....it was the cheapest :-/
It does both of our heads in. I rarely drive it without exclaiming 'Stupid Car' at some point.
For example:
The lane assist takes control of the steering & tries to keep you in your lane when overtaking....but it's not just when overtaking, it often seems to want to interfere for no apparent reason. It's quite disconcerting.
The car often, when I drive it, screeches a 'collision warning', I cover the brakes & it does an emergency stop. Never ever have I been in danger of colliding with anything. The most dangerous aspect of this is one of the car freaking me out. Sometimes the car's radar has picked up a wall or hedge on the right hand side of a left hander as I've been negotiating that corner....as if I'm suddenly going to go off at a tangent ffs....
The tyre pressure sensors telling me that one of the tyres is low on pressure....it never is.
The parktronic picking up it's own exhaust fumes as I reverse so that I have to stop & get out to check that I'm not about to hit something that I hadn't been aware of.
The parktronic being too slow to react, such that I reverse out, hit the wall.........then the parktonic kicks in & tells me I'm getting a bit close to the wall.
Opening my door as I reverse into a roadside parking space so that I can observe the wheels aren't hitting the kerb....but the car doesn't like me doing that & refuses to move until I shut the door.
The worst thing though is the touch screen iPad type device. If you want to put the fan on or turn the heating up you have to go through a menu. It's so dangerous because, to do so while you are driving, you have to take your eyes off the road.....or you have to pull off the road, park up, then scroll through the menu in order to turn anything on or off. What you really need is a knob, a dial, or a slider which you can feel around for & carry out the action using tactile senses rather than visual ones.
.............& that's why I bought a Land Rover.
Last edited by trident-7; 1st May 2023 at 13:30.
Amen brother.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
ThisThe lane assist takes control of the steering & tries to keep you in your lane when overtaking....but it's not just when overtaking, it often seems to want to interfere for no apparent reason. It's quite disconcerting.
I drove a Kia PHEV (dunno what type) and the felt like holding a game console. Horrible.
My wife's Honda is still trouble-free. I think that their 10yr or 350,000 km warranty helps to keep them on their toes, quality-wise.
in general, a lot of trouble can be traced back to the manufacturers' procurement department. Buyers want a car that's loaded with gadgets and gimmicks. Manufacturers try to outbid the competition and then 'under par' features are installed because they use el cheapo parts.
Last edited by thieuster; 30th April 2023 at 19:58.
Unfortunately my normally reliable MG Midget decided to breakdown yesterday, then it started raining. With a bit of tinkering I managed to get it going and limp home.
By the time the light is on, it is too late.
Give me oil temp, oil pressure and a dipstick and I am happy as a chap known as Larry.
Then make the light come on earlier.
Ah, reminds me of my Bean 11.9. No wipers, when it rained you had to open the windscreen or just stick your head round the side of it. The fuel gauge was a stick (there was some rust in the tank so every 10 miles or so you had to unbolt a pipe in the engine bay and blow the gunk out of it before another 10 miles of carefree driving). It had nothing to distract you from driving - no buttons, switches, dials, screens, nothing - which was lucky because even at 30 it was trying to kill you. I did 45 in it once and it's the scariest thing I've ever done in a car, and I've done some very silly things in cars. I had some epic adventures in it.
"A man of little significance"
....10 mile incremental adventures ;-)
Imagine some 17 year old who wants to learn to drive being presented with something like that. They all seem to want very particular types of cars laden with gadgets!
Our eldest has a fiat 500 which is a lovely car, fairly sensible, not laden with gadgets etc. She wants an Audi A1 or A3, I've told her to stick with what she's got for a few years and worry about changing at a later date.
I served my time as a mechanic and panel beater / sprayer. I think the most technical cars we got in were things like Audi Quattro coupes and BMW 7 series during the early 90's. How things have changed!
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I am so glad that it is not just me (OP).
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This resonates with me over the last 3weeks had to replace ABS unit then Master Brake cylinder then to top it off yesterday had to replace the ABS sensor total bill just shy of £3k. !!! And that’s not main dealer prices!
Could have got a decent watch for that ?
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Last edited by blogger; 5th May 2023 at 16:36.
The first colour laptop I sold was a 386 Olivetti where the screen cost £16,000 to replace, I remember that because the guy that bought it an accountant broke the screen after a couple of weeks and it saved about £1000 to buy a new laptop and take the screen from it. All devices in there infancy are expensive but people work round it, take the Merc command system years Merc wanted about £5000 to fix it on a mates S Class and a little guy in north London resoldered and fixed it for around £700.
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Aircon is a freebie in most electric cars as they use a heat pump to cool the batteries.
Tesla Model 2 is coming, along with this Dacia which actually looks really cool:
https://heycar.co.uk/blog/new-dacia-bigster-2022
So clever my foot fell off.
Could be used to heat the cabin but don’t see how cooling would work.
They heat and cool the batteries to maintain optimum temperature, it’s one of the main contributory factors in range reduction when it’s cold.
Its not for free, ac changes the range by quite a bit when you hit the button. MY ID.5s range increases as soon as you click it off.
Maybe different manufacturers handle it in different ways, it’s a freebie on the Ipace and I think Teslas
You keep banging this same drum but sorry, it’s out of tune.
I just picked up a 1.5 year old Skoda Enyaq this week for 28K. That’s just 1K more than you pay for a new base spec focus. It’s 1K less than you pay for a new base spec Honda Civic. New car prices have shot up.
Want something smaller and cheaper? I just looked on AutoTrader and you can pick up a 3 year old Renault Zoe 50 with an easy 200 mile range (I know because I have one) for 11K
So no, EV’s are not aimed squarely at the wealthy because take it from me, I’m FAR from wealthy, and I’ve got two in my household.
What you also seem to miss or ignore is the running costs once bought. Now I’m fortunate enough to have a drive so I can home charge. I’m on Octopus Intelligent so my actual running costs are very low. I’ve gone from putting £320 a month into a petrol civic that I had to £55 for last month. Next month will be even less as Octopus has just reduced my off peak tariff by 25%
My point was aimed at the manufacturers - we need some more basic, lighter weight and cheaper options which aren’t weighed down with all the luxury kit that those coming from a luxury SUV have grown to expect. Everyone’s definition of wealth is different. £39k on a secondhand Skoda and a Renault still sounds like a big chunk of change to me. I’m certainly not banging any drums, I can see EV’s are the future. I’ve test driven an MG4 recently and sadly it was the cheapest feeling car I’ve ever sat in. My wife and I both felt car sick after a drive, I was too tall for the seats and the controls and software were awful. Yes, it was easy to drive - but so are my 2 current diesel manual gearbox cars. EV owners I speak to look crestfallen when in response to their cries of ‘wait until you drive one’ I say I have, and I wasn’t blown away! I dare say that if my wife and I were doing more miles we’d consider it, but we do about 15,000 miles a year between 2 cars at present so I’m not in a rush. Hopefully by then the budget cars won’t look like 1970’s throwbacks with British Leyland build to match, and fiddly controls accessed by low rent iPads!
Cars are far more reliable, comfortable and efficient than they've ever been.
Metal/Oil/plastics/Tyre/Electronic technology see to that.
Not going to call you a luddite, but.....
Not according to this https://electricvehiclesfaqs.com/how...rk-in-a-tesla/
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