Longines military?? Opinion required please

[sundial]

Is this Longines a genuine military watch? Back has no engraving .. only military indication is the broad arrow ... has a Denison case





Apologies for poor quality camera phone pix

Thanks for looking

Cheers

dunk

[Bernard]

I can't see a number engraved in the caseback.
The mov't is a 12.68 Longines from the right time.
The dial is a poor redial.

No mil. watch, but a genuine Longines.

[sundial]

Thanks ... Thought it might be a redial purporting to be a military ... One I bought a few years back when my knowledge was less ... Live and learn

Cheers

dunk

[Neil.C]

I think it should look more like this Dunk.

[sundial]

Thanks Neil

Cheers

dunk

[Provider]

May I enquire how much you paid for this watch ?

[sundial]

May I enquire how much you paid for this watch ?

Far too much ... :) ... I was a bit naive re watches in those early days.

Cheers

dunk

[Provider]

Thanks,if you wish to sell it please let me know, I would be interested.

[ditchdigger]

still it looks nice

it had me wondering

did any british military watches come with a 24 hour inner track?

[sundial]

still it looks nice

it had me wondering

did any british military watches come with a 24 hour inner track?

Yes ... the 1944 issue COSD Longines which had the 12.68N movement but few were actually issued .. mine has the movement but the case is wrong ...

There was one for sale here on MWR last year http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN ..

I should have done a bit more research before making this post

Cheers

dunk

[foilguy]

Hi all, i was at a watch fair at the motorcycle museum last week near birmingham UK, where i got chating to a bloke wearing one of the robust COSD longines issued to the paratroopers. It had the same dial as the watch discussed on this thread. The dial is definately immatating this watches face. Of interest the guy was an ex soldier with connections to some stores quartermasters. they had found him 2 of the heavy duty COSD cases, with crowns (minus dials and movements).....what a find!!!!!....also he had 3 longines greenlanders for swopsies!!!!!

[sundial]

Not so sure this is a 'poor redial'. It's a fixed bars Dennison cased timepiece; its 'snap' fit Dennison case back, ref 13322 (inside the case back), agrees with KK's British Military Timepieces illustration on page 587. I did not have a copy of KK when i first tried to research this watch. Original photos posted August 2008 are phone pix.

KK's description states: "C.O.S.D. ref 2340: Special forces Wristwatch': In 1944 came a special order for most reliable watches to be used for amphibious landing operations on D-Day. So the MOD ordered for the 'Company Ordnance Depot' C.O.S.D. these watches with a new British casing screwed and fixed lugs and Longines cal 12.68N movements. Some were not water tight cased later by Dennison." (sic)

KK's Dennison case back exterior illustration is 'plain' with no engravings – same as my example.

KK's page 587 (lower RHS) Dennison case with movement illustration, shows indistinct case no.? / SN? 8605 where the back of lug meets the case; my example is engraved 8468 – where the back of the lug meets the case – and which agrees with the same number inside the 'snap on' Dennison case back.

Just checked the dial and it is luminous. A photo might reveal more ref its luminosity. Also checked various posts ref Dennison cased Longines C.O.S.D. watches on MWR – all interesting.

Now plan to obtain Longines 'extract from archives' to ascertain delivery date and to which agency shipped ... likely Baume UK as other examples also shipped to Baume
[B][I]

EDIT 18 June : Fullset of pix including lume :

My Longines COSD Dennison 13322 Case No 8648 Movement No. 6904748 Movement Caliber 12.68N – purchased by me in 2003. Longines "Extract from Archives" applied for











Illustrating Dial Lume Radium









Outer case back. and Inner case back; latter with case No. 8468 & Model No. 13322









Cased movement with Case No. 8468 engraved adjacent to lug – & which matches Inner Case Back No.





Movement Caliber 12.68N






Movement No. 6904748 c/u detail






Movement Caliber 12.68N c/u detail


Now await Longine's advice after applying for "Extract from the Archives"


EDIT. 22/06/23 : . An Infrared photo of the dial:

[sweets]

There are two things I find unconvincing about the dial print here.
One is the serifing. Specifically, how inconsistent it is. Look at all the 2s, 4s, 1s . There are plenty of them. The location, size and direction of the serifs on these numerals are very inconsistent over the dial. The 2s on 22 for instance. The top end is not flat, and it has a large internal serif. Neither are seen on any other 2s. the 1s are the same, with one sided serifs, both sided, large and small.
And I didn't think COSD dials had any numeric serifs at all?

The other is the patchiness of the minute track. The line thickness is not very consistent (inside end of 8, 9, 12, 13, 31 and 32). It looks like it has been generated from a photo, with a scan's inherent lack of precision, rather than from an original design.

I also find the crown looks like a later replacement in a different material, more silver.

Apart from that, the Dennison case looks lovely, and that gilt movement sublime. I have no doubt those two were meant for each other, it is the dial that doesn't match.

[sundial]

Thanks. Aware both dial & hands are not original; they have been discussed on MWR where shortcomings are documented. Extract from archives requested last week from Longines & await same to possibly establish movement & maybe case credentials ref shipping date & to whom shipped - likely Baume . An interesting “learning exercise” & much learnt. Depending on Longines advice, may try & source original or MOD dial & correct hands - or Tuna parts

[size11s]

Fingers crossed for the EoA for the movement to come up trumps. I doubt very much that they will mention the case though, as I am pretty sure that the movements were put in the Dennison 13322 cases later. I know it puts me in the 'weird class' but I actually prefer the COSD dial and handset in the 13322 case than the tuna case.

[sundial]

Fingers crossed for the EoA for the movement to come up trumps. I doubt very much that they will mention the case though, as I am pretty sure that the movements were put in the Dennison 13322 cases later. I know it puts me in the 'weird class' but I actually prefer the COSD dial and handset in the 13322 case than the tuna case.

I will advise the extract content when available; the movement SN appears to be within a favourable batch.

BW, dunk

[sundial]

I will advise the extract content when available; the movement SN appears to be within a favourable batch.

BW, dunk

Appears my previous application to Longines maybe included too many photos and was not received / acknowledged.

Following second application with just 3 photos, now pleased to advise Longines emailed following 31 Oct. and await the official "Extract from the Archives" ref. same.


Dear Mr.Kxxxxxxxxxx,

We thank you for contacting us and for your interest in Longines watches.

Further to your request, we are pleased to provide the information contained in Longines' handwritten registers.

Originally, the serial number 6'904'748 identifies a Longines mechanical manually wound movement, caliber 12.68N. It was invoiced on 14 May 1945 to the company Baume & Co., which was at that time our agent for the UK.

The other parts of the watch were produced locally under license from Longines. Unfortunately, since the relevant archives are not in our possession, we are unable to provide any further information on your model.

For your information, we send you by post an Extract from the Archives from Longines. Hopefully, you will receive it in the next few days.

We remain at your entire disposal for any further information you may need.

Truly yours,

AXXXX DXXXXX
Branding and Heritage

Compagnie des Montres Longines Francillon SA
CH-2610 Saint-Imier, Switzerland
Phone +41 32 942 53 08



Another dial pic:

[sundial]

Longines' 'Extract From the Archives' received: