Lawyer recommendations-house transfer to child (gifted) and parent gone wrong

[samswatch]

My life seems to be a never ending saga of joy!

My parents gifted their home to my sister about 25 years ago. I think it was in my mother's name and she transferred it as the request of my father. Father died, sister tried to chuck my mother out but she stayed. Until recently she was paying them rent (but not sure if that is still going on).

My mother is seeking legal advice whether the transfer of the property can be reversed as it may have been under duress.

Would anyone please have a lawyer they recommend, where my mother can seek advice about what, if any, her options are.

thanks

[joe narvey]

I am of no use to you what so ever, but blimey, sorry to hear of your predicament. Families.

[Neil.C]

Best of luck with your horrible predicament.

I would have a phone round locally to see who would handle this type of work.

Good luck.

[TaketheCannoli]

Jeez, families! I feel your pain. I’m not able to help but wanted to pass on my best wishes in getting this resolved.

[thegreatdogwood]

Wow, that sounds charming

I can't recommend anyone but there are two avenues here to look at. Reversal as you are suggesting because of the circumstances and secondly whether your mother can successfully argue as a lesser option that there were reciprocal obligations attached to the transfer such as free lodgings for life which has been breached through demanding rent.

Given the property was in her name, she is better placed than your late father to communicate what she understood the "bargain" to be at point of transfer, the sister will no doubt try to use payment of rent as an indication that it was a straight gift, no strings attached.

I truly feel for you as know what my outlook would be to my sister under those apparent circumstances...

[5avvy]

There’s an article in the FT this week which may help.

It’s titled “Can I get my house back from my daughter?”

It’s behind a paywall but you can open and read via a Google search.

[learningtofly]

Good luck resolving this. I suspect if there’s going to be an obstacle it’ll be the elapsed time of 25 years.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Best of luck sorting this out.

Some info:-

https://ridleyandhall.co.uk/when-can...-be-set-aside/

[dandanthewatchman]

I have some experience of this in my working life. After 25 years and if a rent has been paid I think your mother is on a sticky wicket. Bottom line is specialist colleagues of mine do this stuff day in day out but i would think twice about putting your mother through this as stressful and she will need to stump up a few thousand for fees just to get it going.


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[cnjm1]

The can be a presumption of undue influence on lifetime gifts; meaning the burden of proving the gift was fair shifts to the beneficiary.

There is a presumption of undue influence for lifetime gifts where there is:

a relationship of trust and confidence (such a relationship) is assumed in some incidences, namely that between parent and child, solicitor and client, medical practitioner and patient or trustee and beneficiary; and

-a transaction is of such a size or nature that it calls for an explanation.

I would certainly seek legal advice, guessing it’s a sizeable chunk of money at risk.


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[samswatch]

Thanks all. The house is worth a bit about £2.5m-£3m. I suspect my mother needs to get some advice and see whether she is up to it and how much she can afford, which isnt a lot.

I will get the FT article and check out Ridley and Hall.

[Halitosis]

Well I guess it’s one less birthday to remember (your sister’s). Hard to comprehend such a betrayal to one’s own parents

[learningtofly]

Thanks all. The house is worth a bit about £2.5m-£3m. I suspect my mother needs to get some advice and see whether she is up to it and how much she can afford, which isnt a lot.

I will get the FT article and check out Ridley and Hall.

At that kind of value, wouldn’t the path of least resistance be a compromise between your mother and sister resulting the house being sold and the proceeds split between them? No stress or hostility and all parties receiving a substantial sum of money that would certainly provide a secure future for your mum.

[samswatch]

At that kind of value, wouldn’t the path of least resistance be a compromise between your mother and sister resulting the house being sold and the proceeds split between them? No stress or hostility and all parties receiving a substantial sum of money that would certainly provide a secure future for your mum.

My sister doesn't speak to my mother, holds some significant cash assets and legally owns the property, so in her mind, my mother has no cards to play other than a moral standpoint. Before you ask I have been disowned by her anyway.

[Papa Hotel]

Just to clarify the rent part - your mum pays rent to your sister? Your mum gifted her the house AND THEN paid rent to stay in it? Jesus Christ, the warning signs were there from the start, your sister sounds just horrible.

[samswatch]

I think the rent is to do with avoiding IHT of some sort, I don't know tbh

[deepreddave]

I think the rent is to do with avoiding IHT of some sort, I don't know tbh

Yep, would have to be market value rent otherwise it would remain part of your mother's estate. Explanation here - https://www.taxadvisermagazine.com/a...ng-family-home.

I'd suggest summarizing the facts and gathering together what evidence you can before having an initial discussion with a solicitor. The value of the house makes a credible challenge worthwhile and you may even be able to negotiate a 'no win - no fee or reduced fee' approach to ensure justice is done.

[Scepticalist]

I think the rent is to do with avoiding IHT of some sort, I don't know tbh

Basically, you can't gift a house to your children then live in it for free on your own without them. The taxman would (rightly) view it as trying to evade IHT and count it as not being gifted at all come probate. I'm not sure you're allowed a "peppercorn" rent either - it must be reasonable. If your Mum is no longer paying rent it doesn't necessarily mean it's not due, I suspect in theory your sister could count it as a debt due by your mother's estate (which would have to be paid before any bequests etc). It will likely depends how the transfer was set up and what contracts/agreements are in place.


I suspect legal action won't be cheap and could cost a fair chunk of any benefit for both parties. If at all possible I agree with comments above to try and persuade them to sell the property with legally binding arrangement over splitting proceeds, else you might find that whats left after legal action is a fraction of the value of the house. It might be worth reminding your sister that CGT is liable on the full amount as it's not her main residence - I suspect a good tax accountant/lawyer could substantially reduce the tax liability overall if the transfer was nullified/rearranged in a different way..

What a horrific minefield. Hope you find some expert advice.

[Papa Hotel]

I think the rent is to do with avoiding IHT of some sort, I don't know tbh

Ah, ok, I see that. Still though, it just doesn't sit right that given the house and rent that your sister won't play fair.

[samswatch]

So unfortunately its a 3 storey house and my mother stays on the ground floor with the other 2 floors being my sisters. She and her husband had the house put into flats, so my mother stays on the ground floor. I really need to find someone good local to W London

[Boss13]

My sister doesn't speak to my mother, holds some significant cash assets and legally owns the property, so in her mind, my mother has no cards to play other than a moral standpoint. Before you ask I have been disowned by her anyway.

So sad to read of such a situation. Hope you manage to resolve this amicably without a legal battle which it doesn’t feel will end well for any party.

[sevvy]

So unfortunately its a 3 storey house and my mother stays on the ground floor with the other 2 floors being my sisters. She and her husband had the house put into flats, so my mother stays on the ground floor. I really need to find someone good local to W London

Phone The Law Society. They have a “find a solicitor” service and if you give them a brief outline of the situation they’ll provide you with suitable firms to contact.

[DONGinsler]

Did she sign a gift deed to your sister? Just Googling

If it's a 2-3 mil house. I'm sure there is money to hire a real-estate lawyer

[samswatch]

Thanks Sevvy, will try that.

I did ask my mother about the paperwork, apparently its 'lost' and the lawyer has long retired

[thegreatdogwood]

I'd suggest summarizing the facts and gathering together what evidence you can before having an initial discussion with a solicitor. The value of the house makes a credible challenge worthwhile and you may even be able to negotiate a 'no win - no fee or reduced fee' approach to ensure justice is done.

Spot on - the large sums mean it is more likely that she can find a hard hitting lawyer who would take it on for a no win no fee basis if there genuinely is a case.

[mrushton]

Did your sister declare that money to the taxman?

[Longblackcoat]

Before getting in touch with a solicitor I’d ask your mother what evidence she has that’s there was any form of coercion. Because if there’s no evidence, there’s precious little that even the best solicitor can do anything.

And the 25-year gap before deciding that, after all, she wasn’t willing to hand over the house? A difficult one to overcome.

There’s the potential for massive fees to be spent here. And for this to take years to resolve. ​Does your mother have that much time or determination?

[ralphy]

My parents gifted their home to my sister about 25 years ago. I think it was in my mother's name and she transferred it as the request of my father. Father died, sister tried to chuck my mother out but she stayed. Until recently she was paying them rent (but not sure if that is still going on).

So unfortunately its a 3 storey house and my mother stays on the ground floor with the other 2 floors being my sisters. She and her husband had the house put into flats, so my mother stays on the ground floor.

I did ask my mother about the paperwork, apparently its 'lost' and the lawyer has long retired

You really do need legal advice on this and you will need to produce a lot of information to whoever you appoint. I suggest you gather as much of that information as you can and write it down before your first lawyer meeting. A law firm that has accreditation in Family Mediation would be my choice.

Good luck with it.

R

[cnjm1]

I think the rent is to do with avoiding IHT of some sort, I don't know tbh

Yes. You have to have beneficial enjoyment of the property. For example you can’t just give away a painting in name but keep it in your house till you die. By renting it back, you get round it.

[TaketheCannoli]

She sounds a joy!

My sister doesn't speak to my mother, holds some significant cash assets and legally owns the property, so in her mind, my mother has no cards to play other than a moral standpoint. Before you ask I have been disowned by her anyway.

[joe narvey]

Thanks all. The house is worth a bit about £2.5m-£3m. I suspect my mother needs to get some advice and see whether she is up to it and how much she can afford, which isnt a lot.

I will get the FT article and check out Ridley and Hall.

I have a few FT gift links left this month if you need a link.

[Saint-Just]

I have a few FT gift links left this month if you need a link.

Alternatively you can read it here: https://archive.ph/Og0y5

[Rev-O]

A similar thing happened to a chap I know. As I understand it he was "befriended" by someone, signed over the deeds of his house to his "friend" who then disappeared.

The local MP tried to get involved but as the man in question was an adult etc (although vulnerable: he was elderly, lonely, had no family and was probably secretly gay) there was nothing that could be done.

The man in question died last year and left his estate (bank accounts, cash etc) to local charities but the single biggest asset, the house, was already owned by the "friend"

Personally I think that was a combination of elder abuse and a romance scam but the transfer of ownership still stood and couldn't be undone. Really sad.

[Tom-P]

Yes sadly I think (broadly) this sort of manipulation is not that uncommon, and that the legal bar for proving actual coercion is quite high esp, as some have said, when years have elapsed. In the OP's situation I wonder whether any impropriety in the living/rent/tax arrangements might afford more effective, de facto, leverage (in the mother's defence vs the sister) rather than de jure pursuit of the coercion question. I think you'd need quite a clear medical audit trail to demonstrate the latter, and ageing / vulnerable people doing silly / naive things doesn't meet the bar. I hope you'll keep us posted though.

[joe narvey]

I can connect you with a suitable lawyer in London if you need one. PM me if required and I will connect you with someone.

[oldoakknives]

Never ceases to amaze me how nasty people can be to their own family.