Reply With QuoteDid you see the German opposition to the ban on ICE vehicles? This may have interesting implications for the EV and hybrid markets.
Not so long ago could have had these 3 for around than 120k, now.. 600k
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/list...GsPhtC5BD5WjDc
https://www.torque-gt.co.uk/evo-tme-140323.html
https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1528332
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Did you see the German opposition to the ban on ICE vehicles? This may have interesting implications for the EV and hybrid markets.
Excellent, my hybrid will not depreciate as muchOriginally Posted by joe narvey
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If prices have already spiked up to eye- watering levels perhaps the investment potential has already been realised and the folks who bought them years ago are the winners?
but how do you know what will happen in the future, you could spend £100K on cars and lose tens of thousands and feel like a total moron for the rest of your life
and what about the Sierra Cosworth that sold for £600k!
I think it's a very risky game though. I've never bought for profit which is just as well.
I could possibly have got £70-75k for my GT3 if I'd sold in 2017. When I did sell I got £45k. Still a bit more than I'd paid for it 15 years earlier, but far from optimum. I made a very small profit (after getting it up to scratch) on the Clio Trophy I had.
I sold my 3.2 Carrera Club Sport for £30k in 2006 & a few years later it might have fetched £200k. In 2004 I could have bought a nice 964 RS for £35k & in 2005 I was offered a mates 993 RS for £45k.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Maybe, some Escorts still going up on Bangers and Cash , 50k+ for Escorts etc etc
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Last edited by Daveya.; 17th March 2023 at 12:26.
I did not too bad re a 911 SC I paid 20k for,
Sold it last year for a Vantage , a 1967 Mk 1 Mini 1380 and half a kitchen.
At the other end of the price spectrum I picked up a tidy 3 door MkII Golf GTI big bumper last week for buttons - we shall see how it does ...
You only feel like a moron if you're motive was to buy for investment! My advice to anyone is to only buy because you want the car (or watch) sufficiently to pay the current market price, if it drops in value you still enjoy owning it and the 'loss' is only crystallised if you have to sell. These things can go up and down in value and it's a mistake to spend money you can`t afford to write off if the value drops or if your circumstances change.
I own a 1970 MGB that I bought in 2015 when the market for these cars was probably stronger than it is now, if I was to add up the money I`ve put into it (purchase price, plus cost of re-doing poorly executed mechanical work) I`d be over £20K for a car with a current market value of £15K on a good day, but I didn't buy it with money in mind, I bought it because I wanted another and I class it as a hobby. The car is currently on stands with the front suspension and rear brakes in pieces awaiting reassembly, it's just soaked up another £200 on parts but that's the reality of classic car ownership, I don`t see the value going up anytime soon but that isn`t a problem unless I need to sell it.
Anyone who buys an old car as a speculative investment has to go in with their eyes open, the values of modern classics such as fast Fords have gone up sharply and I believe that ship has now sailed. Same applies to most Porsche stuff.
Rising prices can provide a dilemma for long-term owners: the guy who bought a car years ago for a few thousand to enjoy may still enjoy it, but if that car is now selling for £40-£50K the temptation to sell becomes great and continuing to own the car has transformed into an indulgence, especially if close family could make good use of the money. This happened with E Types, the guys who bought them for £10K found (in some cases) they were sitting on a car capable of fetching £120K, it might seem like a nice problem to have but there is a down side, same argument could be applied to vintage Rolex sports watches too.
Anyone remember the classic car boom and bust in the late 80s/early 90s?...........I do.
Will be model dependant I think. Today's yobbo in a Fiesta RS is tomorrow's wealthy man in his 50s buying back his memories
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Think I will keep my 58 plate low mileage Volvo V70 R-Design for a few more years then.
True! Nostalgia plays a big part in the classic car market, the folks buying the Sierra Cosworths are the guys who had one back in the day or (more likely) couldn’t afford one but are now at a stage in life where they can.
In 2006 I ummed and arred over an R34 for £34000…………..oh well
Yep, and of course the older the car the more likely you can tinker with them
I mean try and find an Alfasud under 20k now....
Then again today's cars won't disappear in the rain and will last longer which will keep prices down
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90's cars are going through the boom 80's ones did the last decade. Some cars deserve it, while others are pulled up by the frenzy and the fear of missing out. It all eventually settles. My 930 Turbo had a huge spike around 2015, then dropped in the next few years, so I paid significantly less then the previous owner, but has since gently moved up to somewhere in between. I think Skylines, Supras, etc., are currently seriously overpriced when compared to genuinely special cars from that era, such as the NSX, but Fast and the Furious generation are pushing the market.
I take comfort in the idea that should something drastic happen I have the value in the cars, but I hope the sale of them falls to who ever inherits them from me as I don't ever plan on cashing in.
Yes the F&F cars have gone mental.
Always wanted an NSX but it’s never going to happen now as cannot justify the current pricing & for that money I’d rather something I could use properly / exploit without fear.
I love your 930 with a passion, but I think I’d struggle to enjoy it without the worry of what it costs if I screw up!
I always look at the cars Ashgood have in stock, both online and in person if I’m passing. Some stunning old school cars that are there as investment & owning and not for sale (yet!)
You buy a classic car twice, once from the guy selling it and again form the parts dealers, mechanics, welders etc etc.
Buy because you have the money and want one.
I justified the purchase of my 993 as something "I wouldn't lose money on" and could enjoy in the meantime.
I feel the same about the NSX. Really loved them in period, and still do, but I'd rather spend the money on something else. However, between an 80k NSX and a 125k Skyline GTR I would always go for the Honda. On the other hand my sister-in-law's boyfriend who is mid 30's thinks an R34 GTR is the pinnacle, so it's definitely a generational thing.
The 930 is a really easy car to live with. Except for the Turbo specific parts, it shares everything with tens of thousands of other 911s, so nothing is particularly difficult to repair, and Porsche Classic parts support is amazing too, down to nuts and bolts. My late 5 speed car is also surprisingly economical, about the same as my 997 turbo, which is shocking really. I just never use it when salt is on the roads, but otherwise it's a real joy. This week's weather is giving me hope I'll be able to bring it out soon.
I’d have happily settled on the 2 Audi RS2’s I had…. Ragussa green one was 10k,
My low miler, 1 previous owner Nogaro blue one was £15k…. 😢
Absolute awesome bit of kit, I was probably the biggest reseller of RS2’s back in the day, ‘ Wolf in Sheep’s clothing’ definitely springs to mind! I had 4 in stock at one point, pretty rare considering there were only 180 uk cars. If only i had garaged a couple………..
I regret selling this one
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Holding on to my Honda S2000, off for a repaint at the mo, selling for the same as I paid for it new back in 09, only time I made money on cars was when working as a salesman, unfortunately almost all the profit went to someone else!
Long term, I don't believe these are great investments. Once the people who have nostalgia for them are dead the demand will drop. I kids aren't interested in those at all. There are just too many to keep the prices high on a dwindling number of interested folks.
They said that about Chevettes
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I suspect they will be bitterly disappointing to drive in many ways, but it's that nostalgia factor.
I can't argue, if I win the lotto I'd get a Lotus Carlton immediately, because it may be slower than a BMW 540d but it's the 'millennium falcon of saloon cars'.
I'd probably get an Escort Cosworth too while I'm at it. And a 968 Clubsport. And a Corrado VR6. And...............
Don't think many people will genuinely be debating M3 or RS2000 tbh
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My BIL has a Rover P5b and a couple of mk1 Granadas; they are actually very nice to drive as long as you’re not trying to push them. Cruising along on a summers day, they are very relaxing to drive; the suspension is a lot softer than modern standards do you font feel the bumps as much.
I often hear people say that older cars will be disappointing to drive, but this is simply not true, taking into account you choose a decent car, unless your idea of a good car is all the modern comforts and 0-60 times. By most other metrics modern cars are far more disappointing. A classic 911 is far more enjoyable to drive than a modern one, and requires so much more involvement. To say a modern diesel is faster than a classic sports car misses the point entirely in the way that an Apple watch is far more accurate than a mechanical one. Modern cars are made to have these stunning performance figures as in every other respect they are far less involving and fun to drive due to their weight which has to be managed by massive tyres and firm suspensions, reigned in with electronics, electric steering and throttles, etc. Add batteries into the mix, and I would say the best days of the performance cars are at least 15 years behind us. We have these massive monsters which can do 3 second 0-60, 200mph+, but nowhere to use them. On a track a 150bhp Caterham will be far more fun at a fraction of the price, so whenever I see an Aventador going 20mph in a city centre I think we have definitely jumped the shark.
Driving cars from previous generations is disappointing if you make objective comparisons, modern cars are so damned good they make the dream cars of 30-40 years ago feel v. disappointing. But that’s missing the point completely, older cars have a certain appeal and you either get it or you don’t. Cars from the 60s and 70s feel crude by comparison, they’re slower, heavier to drive and usually thirstier than the modern stuff but the driving experience us far more interesting. Because they lack real performance it's possible to drive them harder and use them to their full potential without going at dangerous speeds, even with an uprated engine my MG will manage 0-60 in approx 9-10 seconds and the acceleration tails off at 70, not at all fast by today’s standards but it sure feels and sounds quick when you’re in the driving seat watching the rev counter hit the red!
The generation effect means that cars like mine from the 60s should become less appealing, I think that will happen to some extent and prices will reflect that. However, provided you understand how they’re supposed to work (Haynes manual is your friend) they’re not hard to work on compared to the complexity of more modern classics and that makes DIY maintenance far more viable. Being able to work on a classic yourself is a huge advantage, they can become moneypits if you’re paying someone to do the spanner work and its a mistake to underestimate the work they generally need!
All depends what you want,
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Here's the reality of classic ownership:
if you're having to pay someone else to do the work it can become a (more) expensive hobby! There are analogies between classic cars and vintage watches, if you get a good example of either and get it properly sorted out it pays to hang on to it. One reason why I won't swap the MG for something more exotic is the fact that I've sorted out all the 'issues'.........and there were plenty! Car had been reassembled by a chimpanzee, it certainly looked that way, and you can`t always tell till you start taking stuff apart.
Classic cars as an investment?...........no! Old cars are a great hobby if you like that sort of thing but you need to be lucky to make money, a crystal ball is a big help.
I attended a Lotus Owners Club do earlier today, the venue was this place - https://woodham-mortimer.com/
My mate and I had a guess as to the value of this Mini prior to looking it up on their website, I'm not going to give away what our guesses were however we were miles out. Thousands of them.
To be fair, we weren't aware of its provenance at the time of guessing, we weren't aware that it was previously owned by Peter Sellers for example.
The asking price?
£240k
I'm going to type that again just in case anyone thinks it's a typo.
£240k
Gadzooks...
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A 'photo would help.
Edit to add that the Heritage Austin Cooper S next to it has a ticket price of £140k. To put that in perspective they have a very tidy and extremely gorgeous 2012 Ferrari 458 up for £150k.
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Last edited by CardShark; 18th March 2023 at 20:32.
House aside my best investment has been a car, currently worth between 7x-10x what I paid depending where you look, but... I have owned it for 25 years, its been with me through several house buys and each time I have thought if I sell it it would help with the fee's or reduce the mortgage but no, its like its part of me and selling it would really really hurt so I suppose the value is all a bit false
Currently back on 4 wheels and can be driven in and out the garage after a long period of underside restoration mostly done by myself.
Just wish I bought up and stored as many as I could have along with cheap Porsche, there was a time not that long ago that £3k or less could have got you an E30 M3.
Last edited by murkeywaters; 19th March 2023 at 00:34.
Best car I ever bought was my polar silver 993.
I bought it about ten years ago when by complete luck they were at the bottom of their value curve.
I still drive it every week and will never part with it.
It’s gone up a lot in value but to be fair it’s cost me so much to keep in good order and on the road
I doubt I’d be making much money if I sold it.
With hindsight I would have bought a 964 instead but who could have foreseen how they were going to
shoot up in value.
I did sell my 991 GT2RS last summer. I sold it to a Porsche main dealer for what I paid for it……it then languished in their
showroom for several months before they sold it on for a 20 grand loss…..I considered it a close call, very lucky I got out of it.
One of my favourite cars. I used to have an E30 125i, which was awesome, but the M3 was the dream. I was looking at them at around £10k in the mid 2000's. Instead I bought a Lotus Elan for £13k, which I sold in 2020 for 30k, but have spent 50k in total over the 11 years I owned it. It's just the cost of having fun, mostly.House aside my best investment has been a car, currently worth between 7x-10x what I paid depending where you look, but... I have owned it for 25 years, its been with me through several house buys and each time I have thought if I sell it it would help with the fee's or reduce the mortgage but no, its like its part of me and selling it would really really hurt so I suppose the value is all a bit false
Currently back on 4 wheels and can be driven in and out the garage after a long period of underside restoration mostly done by myself.
Just wish I bought up and stored as many as I could have along with cheap Porsche, there was a time not that long ago that £3k or less could have got you an E30 M3.
I think if I was going for investment potential I could've made a couple of different choices with the 930, the early 3l, or the very limited LE, but I don't like those as much as the normal car. Luckily/unfortunately (depending on how you look at it) the one I like the most is probably the next most special, the 5 speed G50, which was only made in 1989. I was willing to pay significantly more to have the 5 speed gearbox as I consider it to be nicer to use than the 4 speed. I wanted white with blue interior, but the linen (kinda cream) inserts and piping on the seats were such an unexpected bonus now I wouldn't want anything else. I initially wanted to reinstate the original flat mirrors, but have decided against it, at least for the time being, as I really love the aero-cup ones, and makes my car even more my own.
For a Sunday afternoon cry go look at this guy on Instagram, he worked at Maranello Concessionaires and then on his own. The prices of Lussos and 288GTOs from around 20 years ago are a shocker...
https://www.instagram.com/ferrari250swb
My recent regret is selling the Lotus Carlton, was glad to see the back of it in 2014 for £18,500. Okay it had a few quid subsequently spent to make it perfect, probably mid-four figures, but it last sold a couple years ago for £80,000.
I bought a MR2 and after all the money that has gone into it (and more needed) if I was to sell now I would be lucky to get 30% of what I have into it, but its "fun".
Poor man Ferrari!
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After numerous variations of the Golf, (latest an 'R'), I recently found an R32 5 door Auto, ex ''Japanese Domestic Market''
The local mech gave it a once over, and could not believe it was 16 years old, with ZERO corrosion (no salt in the land of the rising sun !)
And, as the Japanese cherish their European cars, it is immaculate !
An absolute hoot to drive and handles superbly, with a wonderful engine note from that sweet V6.
Off to our place in Girona next week, and wouldn't mind giving it a blast 'heading South', however, as I have a now 430 mile M440i Gran Coupe in the stable, my better half claims it is a no brainer.... :-(
Last edited by ingenioren; 19th March 2023 at 17:56.
Re old performance cars vs anything newish, you had to really know how to drive to survive. Many were fast but a lot were 'agricultural' in terms of handling, brakes, tyres and they would rust like a sea anchor. I remember nearly totalling my MK1 Golf Gti after experiencing brake-fade coming off the A1 at Peterborough in the 70's, a 3 litre Capri that went down the road like like a sidewinder if you touched the throttle too enthusiastic and my first 911 SC widowmaker. But you learnt how to drive 'proper' in them days. Even cheap(ish) modern cars are electronicly wizard, fast too and difficult to 'get out of shape'. I had a Merc 220d coupe in the 90's. I once accidently turned off the stability control and it was only my old-school driving skill that saved my arse from ending up in someones garden on a wet greasy chicane-like corner. Passengers were a bit shocked to say the least lol.
What is a cooking Chevette worth these days?
There seem to be far more Skylines around than there ever were HS or HSR Chevettes.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
HSR I think only a few hundred left
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This keeps appearing in my tapatalk images for this thread, and I bloody love it.House aside my best investment has been a car, currently worth between 7x-10x what I paid depending where you look, but... I have owned it for 25 years, its been with me through several house buys and each time I have thought if I sell it it would help with the fee's or reduce the mortgage but no, its like its part of me and selling it would really really hurt so I suppose the value is all a bit false
Currently back on 4 wheels and can be driven in and out the garage after a long period of underside restoration mostly done by myself.
Just wish I bought up and stored as many as I could have along with cheap Porsche, there was a time not that long ago that £3k or less could have got you an E30 M3.
The E30 remains the only M3 I haven’t driven & with current prices I doubt I will get the chance, so will have to settle for a passenger ride.
Currently the E46 remains my favourite, whilst the V8 was lovely it just didn’t work as well for me. The E46 is what made me get my Z4M as wanted my chance to own the engine in a car.
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I had an HSR back in the day - cracking car, be worth a small fortune now.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
One sold on Bangers And Cash recently over 20k and was a heap
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That was an HS, the HSR is even more rare.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Yeah good call, I'm.remebering him talking about the HSR and saying how much more it would be worth
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