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I tend to agree. Accounting for inflation the prices are increasing but not as much as it seems. What has changed is availability at retail for some brands - which may change.Originally Posted by watchlovr
FFS, find me something that hasn’t increased in price?
What a pointless post, prices go up, not down.
Anyway it’s easily fixed, do what I do, buy 20 years ago.
Last edited by watchlovr; 2nd February 2023 at 22:07.
I tend to agree. Accounting for inflation the prices are increasing but not as much as it seems. What has changed is availability at retail for some brands - which may change.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Hifi is another example of massive price increases with forum members moaning similarly. You can spend 5 figures on a mains cable! Unlike Rolex they won’t appreciate in value though.
A good point, but I’d argue we’re complicit in wanting luxury products, and are not merely brainwashed by clever marketing. The moment we decide to buy something, be it a home, a car, TV or HiFi, and most certainly a watch, we are looking for the best, before settling on the best we can afford, while wishing we could have the next one up. There’s a deep, instinctual drive to make and own the best tools we can have. We are certainly affected by marketing, but often we are willing accomplices.
Aye, just as you can´t cheat an honest man you can´t upsell one who is happy with his lot and wants for nothing. I think perhaps. Too much self worth bound up in our possessions*, the luxe goods makers, particularly men's watches pitch them as our little avatars...which wouldn´t work if we weren´t complicit...see also motor cars.
*This is explored quite well in the novel Fight Club, somewhat less so in the movie.
Last edited by Passenger; 3rd February 2023 at 11:09.
TV's seem to beat inflation. I've recently bought a 43inch 4k Samsung Smart TV for around £350. I bought a similar sized Samsung TV over 10 years ago for double that. The new one has more features and has improvements in every area. I know you can spend several thousand on a TV, but the big brands are still producing good quality products at budget prices.
And you’ll want a good fuse for the plug…
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum...-uk-mains-fuse
Ah … but why are we complicit? Because of all those years of seeing a national geographic ads, F1 sponsorship and so on.
Brands are created over decades and we are all suckers for a brand.
Fair to argue that some brands also have great products but often there are more affordable equivalents.
Very true, my first TV I bought in 1987, it was a 20" model and cost £200 in a sale reduced from £250. That's probably a grand in today's money?
Blown my mind that there is even a market for a £4200 fuse!!
If only my salary would keep in line with price increases I’d be a happy bunny !!
This.
About watches, yes they go up with inflation. Maybe a little premium above it.
But the rebranding idea is a shame in my opinion. I don’t see the new Omega SM for € 9.000 meet in value as the SM did (Omega) did in the past.
It’s all about the money. Shit get sold so why not. As one said before; i guess i am not their customer target any more.
This is.... just.... wow....
I’m shocked and impressed there’s a market for this - and that someone decided to satisfy that ‘need’. I think more impressed than shocked, but it’s a close run thing
Well done that manufacturer!
Fortunately there is very little in the modern watch market that I like, so the fact that certain watch companies in the last 5 years have started to completely take the piss with their pricing just washes straight over my head.
I don't understand why anyone, regardless of how rich they are, would buy things for high five figures that cost three figures max to manufacture. I'm all for the right to a decent profit, and accept that there will be a mark up on top of that for "branding", but £8K list now for an over polished Sub ??? No thanks. I'll buy a Scurfa.
I'd love to know how much of the list price of a modern Rolex actually relates to the watch. 5% would be my bet.
the audiophile industry is no different to the watch industry. People will pay a fortune for the 'best'. £250k for a turntable, of course sir. £10k for a connecting lead, why not. There are even speakers that produce noise that isn't audible to the human ear, simply because there is science that suggests that those sound waves affect the audible sound waves.
Our complicity started far before branding. Natural instinct is always to seek out the best or what we perceive to be the best. The best food, the best mate, the best land. Branding is just a modern way of convincing us of what the advertiser wants us to think is the best.
Its not just about seeking out the best for ourselves. In some peoples cases it's more to show others they have the best.
Branding started before we were born, how do you know what the best watch is …. It is the one the marketing department told you was best …
Last edited by Montello; 9th February 2023 at 12:39.
Bit OT - but I found the only way to accomplish that was to change employer every 3 years - and hopefully progress in skill level and pay grade. Staying in the same firm has its pay grade ceilings. I had a plan to double my income every 5 years - which worked until stopped moving company and then there were cutbacks in overtime / on call payment / expected to work extra hours without extra pay, including pension contributions in total benefit package to warrant less take home pay. At the end of my career my take home was the same as it was 10years ago when I had overtime and oncall payments - and they before used to pay for broadband to home and company phone (and luncheon vouchers!)
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 9th February 2023 at 11:40.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Nailed it with this post.
The rising costs discussion has been here since I first started enjoying watches 15 years ago. Then, I aspired to own. Now I just look and think ‘how much!’.
Totally agree, branding originally started to show ownership. However, seeking out the best for ourselves does come before showing off as generally speaking, those who show off believe that they have something better (or at least comparable) than those that they're showing off to.
Not at all. The best is the one that you believe is the best by whatever criteria you set. Marketing departments can only steer you in a certain direction to consider what they're offering. Anyone with with any intelligence will make the final choice based on their own criteria.
The inevitable problem with a capitalist society. Those that are crucial to the society will never see income rises like that (nurses, teachers, police, fire, engineers etc.). Those that society could easily do without are those that seem to increase their income exponentially (finance as an example).
there's definitely an irony that those we will always need will most likely never own a watch such as a Rolex where as many of those that we'd happily see the back of, most likely own several.
People who are in brand denial are usually some of the most susceptible on examination.
Interesting point.
It’s cute that you believe that.
It's an undeniable truth. An important rule of sales, you can't sell anything to someone who doesn't want to buy it.
For me, an example would be a Rolex. I see the brand marketed on television, in shopping centres, discussed on forums. I know quite a lot about them and still I would never buy one because I simply don't like them. They don't meet my criteria for a watch purchase.
Where's the brand denial? If buying into a brand meets a persons criteria that's fine. Not everyone does. Some buyers might choose a product based on affordability and therefore might be less brand susceptible than someone with a lot of disposable income.
The thing is the new 41mm Sub is an outstanding watch, as are the latest smp300.I'm so far out of the circle of new watches that all the prices seem exorbitant to me.
Doesn't seem that long ago that Subs were £1500 used!
I did fill my boots then and recently sold off all my Rolexes for frankly huge profits so they have been a great investment. Wouldn't buy a new one though, can't see the value.
Have to make do with crappy old Omegas now.
I have the old ones, and the new ones blown them away in every aspect.
Screw most classic's, the lastest Sub quality is gobsmaking imo. Forget the maxi case ones though….my fav watch atm is my Omega FOIS. but even those are circa £5k for a minter now. And I would love the new 321.is a 41mm Sub worth double the pre ceramic ones, yes imo it's 3x the watch.
What I don't get is people buying all the tat models and two tones these days.
And it's a shame no one can buy a Daytona at list, who the F*** gets these pieces ?
Not even a new thing, you could be ever get a Daytona even 10 years back.
Will I pay overs for a SS Daytona, yep,(the black one though) too many you tubers have the panda. the price should come back to me and they will discontinue it and then you are quids in.
So tell me which watches do you own and what car do you drive and what was your criteria for selecting them?
Last edited by Montello; 12th February 2023 at 10:02.
Valid point I reckon...I´m fairly ´brand resistant´ I think.
Can I play?
I’m interested in Blancpain and am investigating them. They make Rolex seem cheap if bought at rrp as do many other brands.
Go for it …
I think we all like to think we are brand resistant but when you look at what we own it’s hard to really believe that all the things we own are bought on utility / best in class rather than some brand influence.
Last edited by Montello; 12th February 2023 at 15:42.
1. ones that tell the time and that I like the look and feel of.
2. a 16 year old 2 door, 4 seater with enough boot space for luggage and enough power to keep me out of trouble.
In the same way that there are lots of watches available to purchase, there are also lots of different types of buyer and it seems from your comment that you're missing that point. People buy products based on their own criteria as I've mentioned. Some will buy purely because of the perceived value in a brand. Others won't even care about the brand. We're all different but the one thing that we do have in common is that we decide on our criteria and use that for our purchases.
I don't know if you've ever had so little money that you don't know if you'll be able to afford your food this month but if you have you'll know that the brand has nothing at all to do with your food purchases at that time. You will seek out the most affordable food to suit the money in your hand. That's the criteria.
I am indeed fortunate enough to have never been on the breadline counting pennies for the best nutrition and I don't think this is a valid analogy for the purchasing of a luxury watch.
It's a valid analogy for the purchasing of anything. As I've mentioned all the way through, buying anything is based on the purchasers criteria. That criteria may or may not include the brand.
To add to this looks like zenith is going up 8-10% in March.
That’s quite a jump.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
That’s what I thought.That’s quite a jump.
Might as well chuck in a couple of data points:
Cartier medium Santos has gone from £6150 -> £6400
Bell & Ross BR05 Horolum has gone from £4500 -> £4800. (Already overpriced, now criminally so).
I also checked on the basic large small seconds monoface JLC Reverso, which 18 months ago was on my wishlist at £5,500 and regularly available for just under 5k. Now it's £8,800. That is quite the increase.
I get all the arguments about luxury items, etc etc, but for folks like me rising in their careers and wanting to buy an icon like the Santos or Reverso to commemorate a milestone, prices rising by 10% or more per year leaves a very bad taste and just puts me off the whole industry. I have a Nomos, Grand Seiko, Hamilton and Tudor already in my watch box and price rises snap me out of the hypnotism and back into reality.
what year did China open up? could it be that this massive market that was hungry for displays of wealth flooded the market with loads of new money that allowed prices to increase quickly?
That’s pretty much how I am feeling and why I started this thread. It has gone for 3-5k for nice omega, Rolex, IWC etc to being 6-8k and more. That’s no longer buying off the cuff and moving on and buying something else. That’s now serious money. Like you or is putting me off quite a bit.
And how have those criteria been influenced and developed over the course of your life? Through exposure, experience with those you come into contact, parental guidance and personal preferences.
In no particular order, Vostok, Aevig, Timefactors, Orient, Nivrel, Baltic, Cincinnati Watch Co, San Martin.... and Skoda, originally was going to be SEAT, support your national car maker and all that but the wait time...we'd almost killed our previous car, a Kia, so couldn't wait 3 or 4 months plus the guys in the showroom basically ignored us for ages, can't abide rudeness especially not when I'm spending chunks of money. So a Skoda, the one off the showroom floor it was to be...felt like the nicer interior, better looking car and cheaper too!
Good work .. you are not wasting your hard earned cash on the puff created by marketing departments ... I had a Kia Sorento for a few years; was as good as a BMW X5 imho ... but it was hard on fuel ...
I agree with nearly all of this but a point that I would add is that watches are the same as anything else in that prices eventually follow the market. If they are too overpriced they just won't sell and right now most good watch makers are increasing prices above inflation and are benefitting from it, so the market can take it.
The advantage of this is that if you are willing to take the plunge, the watch will increase in value so you are effectively being paid to own the watch. What's not to like.
Ours was the Sportage, iirc 8 or 9 k used, a whole lotta car for the money, only our neglect finished it off...won't make that mistake again. I spent quite a few years working adjacent to the marketing and advertising industries, it's possibly inoculated me to most of the puff. Plus I'll admit I'm tight by nurture, first pay cheque 140 quid at 16 for a full weeks hard physical work, starting at 7 am, tends to leave a mark despite fortunately going on to better things.
I've worked in marketing for the last 30 years ... my 2 main watches are Rolex & IWC ... I ought to know better ... although the IWC is almost the anti-Rolex in my view ...
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