Reply With QuoteSeiko did previously and briefly discontinue the MM300 before resurrecting it as the SLA021.
This is Seiko we're talking about, so even if they did discontinue it, something similar be along in due course.
Browsing Gnomon's watches for sale, they have a note with the description of the MM300, which states:
'This will be the final delivery for the iconic MM300. And will probably be replaced with something more expensive.'
Does anyone know if this is true or are they just trying to flog a few more watches?
Seiko did previously and briefly discontinue the MM300 before resurrecting it as the SLA021.
This is Seiko we're talking about, so even if they did discontinue it, something similar be along in due course.
Be interesting to see what pops up.
Love the MM300 but couldn't buy one of the newer ones with a lume pip next to the date at 3.
A lot of people take issue with it on Thursday divers, its an eye-sore when you look at it but it doesnt bother me, at a glance.Originally Posted by wileeeeeey
Its interesting that they went for a 4.30 date on the slim turtle. I wonder whether thats what the future holds for all their divers
I hope it continues in some shape or form as it is one of the best looking modern divers on sale. (Recent 3 oclock lume pip aside). That said, against more modern rivals there are elements of it that are distinctly dated. Accuracy can be hit or miss, the crown, crown tube and threads need improving as they have never felt as robust as the rest of the watch, as with all Seiko the bracelet and clasp are functional, nothing more and lack that wow factor.
Improve all of these points and I think you would have the best dive watch on sale IMO.
I reckon the SLA055 will be the template of what replaces it.
That makes sense but I hope not.
Still waiting for a regular black SLA039/SLA025, ideally with a bracelet option.
Would love an SLA no date
I hope that the mm300 replacement will have lots of its DNA but Seiko, give us a decent bracelet rather than the crap they've given us on the mm300's over the last 23 years. Enough is enough.
maybe a rebadging and development of the Seiko LX SNR029, which then brings a spring drive movement to the marine master case, could make the whole LX range more popular
Makes sense, didnt the new CEO say the line up structure needed sorting
Last edited by Middo; 29th January 2023 at 10:44.
Having had a number of mm300, I describe my SNR029 as the perfect mm300
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Interesting to hear that from someone thats had several. I've a snr035, the GMT or 'air', on my wrist currently. I think it's great. I wouldn't pay circa 5k for one but at the pre owned prices I think they are a steal. I also think the ti case and spring drive mean they are fast more watch than the mm300 bit similar money. It surprises me the LX range aren't more popular.
I think it has plenty of mm300 DNA/design nods and yet is it's own, very capable, watch.
Ok I'll tell you what they should do...give it a new lease of life by...
- Place the crown at 4 o'clock properly
- Give it a slightly larger crown (from SLA025) and a replaceable crown tube (from SLA055)
- Give it the MM200 bracelet with the MM300 (same) ratcheting clasp (the best clasp you will find while diving)
- Regulate the 8L35 movement to within COSC (or very near)
- Finally, most importantly, not charge LX money for it!
That all sounds pretty much spot on.
I had this exact idea when Seiko went from the SBBN007 to the SBBN015. It was perfect (for me).
In fact I had three 007s and moved them on, but will never move on my 015.
It was as if I was given a hand in the design. To this day, such a superb (for me) upgrade of a watch I have not seen from Seiko or anyone else :)
The SBBN015 is the best looking modern 300m Tuna Seiko ever made. My only gripe with it is the mismatched lume on the dial and hands. If they got that right then perfection personified as far as I'm concerned.
All the mm300 auto models have looked great.
If the new model has a quality bracelet it deserves at the price point and Seiko scrap the idea that Diashield is a good thing (which it is not) and properly regulate the movement (that they should have been doing since 2000 but couldn't be bothered), then all will be good. What's the chances of all of this happening? Absolutely nill.
Last edited by j111dja; 2nd February 2023 at 14:27.
I'm with you.
That would be too good a Seiko. They must make sure to miss a few things lol.
The lack of regulation, on the MM300 and many others with rapidly rising prices, is such a bizarre misstep. How long would it add to the finishing process?
There's all this talk of hand finishing and ziratzu polishing, hmmmm. How about spending some moments checking the watch's accuracy before shipping it? Their current expected accuracy figures set a really low bar, on what is the item's core function.
I agree, cosc performance would add too the desirability. If they just regulated the movements that should be achievable.
Why do you think diashield isn't a good thing?
I had two marine masters both sold now first one was a steady 1 second a day truly incredible. Second one was a Steady +27 seconds a day , amazing movement for sure but fuck sake regulate it as being accurately fast is pretty shit
To me, Diashield is pointless as cases still mark up and they simply cannot be refinished. Seiko should spend less time with the Diashield process, and use that cost to make a decent bracelet.
The first mm300 (the SBDX001) was when Seiko got the case right.
Last edited by j111dja; 2nd February 2023 at 20:56.
My 001 was constantly slow by 30+ seconds a day when I got it (very annoying but as I change my watch daily, not too much of an issue and it was bought used), quick trip back to Seiko and on its return it’s now less than a second a day fast. They can regulate them to incredible accuracy. So why not do that in the bleedin’ factory?
Last edited by Sinnlover; 2nd February 2023 at 21:44.
Partly as they know this would give you a username dilemma. (o;
The lack of COSC accuracy doesn't bother me on my MM300, I just reset it once a week. I wouldn't say no though if offered (at same price point). As to the bracelet, my Strapcode solves that problem - I've accepted Seiko just can't manage a decent bracelet.
I rarely wear any watch on a bracelet so like yourself, the first thing I ever did with my mm300's was to take the bracelet off.
It's incredible that Seiko actually have the audacity to put this poor quality bracelet (an an even worse quality clasp) on a 2800 watch.
Like all their QC issues ( with poor crown tubes, misaligned chapter rings), timing issues and cheap laser etching on high end watches, they are still getting away with it. Why should a bracelet on a 220 San Martin embarrass the mm300 bracelet. If San Martin can do it then why can't Seiko.
The Chinese microbrands are embarrassing Seiko at present at a tenth of the price. That's difficult for me to say being a Seiko fanatic, but it's true.
Last edited by j111dja; 2nd February 2023 at 21:41.
I was ready to accept a poor bracelet when I picked up a 2013 SBDX001 in seemingly unused condition recently. But I don’t see any issues with it.
The end links are solid and thick, the spring bars typically Seiko-chunky, the links all work as well as links do, and the ratchet-adjustable clasp works well.
The whole bracelet is vastly better than any of my R*lex 5-digit efforts. A low bar perhaps. But did Seiko change the design or construction at some point? I don’t recognise mine from the comments I have often read about it.
It's not just “okay”, it's great! I'd change *nothing* about the SBDX001
To me, it is as perfect as a 14010 in form and function, though far better designed, built and finished (I have both) and in its own unique way, just as much a classic.
[QUOTE=Tokyo Tokei;6152110]I was ready to accept a poor bracelet when I picked up a 2013 SBDX001 in seemingly unused condition recently. But I don’t see any issues with it.
I have recently re acquired my NOS 2013 SBDX001 from a friend and I wouldn't change a thing and I agree with you about the bracelet, honestly cannot see what all the negativity is about.
The watch is an absolute classic by the way, congrats on the pickup!
I haven't worn mine for a while, time to get it on the wrist.
The early Rolex bracelets were pretty awful.I was ready to accept a poor bracelet when I picked up a 2013 SBDX001 in seemingly unused condition recently. But I don’t see any issues with it.
The end links are solid and thick, the spring bars typically Seiko-chunky, the links all work as well as links do, and the ratchet-adjustable clasp works well.
The whole bracelet is vastly better than any of my R*lex 5-digit efforts. A low bar perhaps. But did Seiko change the design or construction at some point? I don’t recognise mine from the comments I have often read about it.
It's not just “okay”, it's great! I'd change *nothing* about the SBDX001
To me, it is as perfect as a 14010 in form and function, though far better designed, built and finished (I have both) and in its own unique way, just as much a classic.
The SBDX001 was a sub 1000 watch back in the early 2000's. The bracelet did the job at the price point back then on what I think is Seiko's best dive watch ever, and I've probably owned more mm300's than anyone else on the forum.
Move forward 20 years and the SLA021 (the modern day equivalent of an SBDX001) is now a 2800 watch. The bracelet is simply not good enough at that price point. No screw pins. No quality to the clasp. The fold over security clasp (signed Seiko) is of very poor quality, and the ratcheting system may work well, but it isn't the quality I would now want on a near 3k dive watch.
As I said earlier, the bracelet and clasp on a 220 San Martin Explorer (faux lume) is in a totally different league to the current SLA021 bracelet. That really sums it up.
Last edited by j111dja; 3rd February 2023 at 01:14.
The links are too big on the MM300 Bracelet which makes the way it wraps around some wrists quite angled and not curved. Also dont know why it needs the little polished bits.
Not acceptable on a 2.8k watch. Not by a long shot. But thats Seikos (and even GS) MO - great watches with third world bracelets and clasps.
That said Ill still probably go back in for another SBDX001
Last edited by wileeeeeey; 3rd February 2023 at 10:51.
I can't argue with those that hate on the bracelet compared to their expectations or fit or modern equivalents. It makes perfect sense.
But I'd gently note that the original SBDX001 was released in 2000, which makes it a contemporary to my 1999-era 14060*. That one has a pressed clasp, folded end-links, and a movement identical to the one fitted to the old Explorer so adoringly described by Walt Odets :D
...and I love the 14060 just the same. These watches were built as tools for divers, not to flash on Instabrag. And all those Seiko or Rol*x wearing real divers, explorers, cavers and climbers did just fine with their 1990s and 2000-era watches with their unacceptable bracelets. I hear moans from time to time about the old Rol*x bracelets, but nothing like the opprobrium heaped upon Seiko for similar-era efforts, which are (to my best unbiased opinion as an owner of both) objectively superior.
As to price, well Seiko never increased the Yen price of the SBDX001 during its 14-year run. The pound however... well it has lost 54% of its value. . That's "just" inflation. It additionally lost a third of its value against the Yen in the last 30 years (lumpy, but the trend is obvious).
Seiko have increased their Yen prices (only on new models though) and that, combined with the devaluation of the pound, means anyone (like some of us ancient forum dwellers) who recall the 2000s like they were yesterday, will likely be disappointed. But I think Seiko are doing just fine, and unlike some watchmakers, still make models aimed at the "lower end" of the market.
But 1000 simply isn't what it used to be.
TT
*For what it's worth, the same shop I just bought my SBDX001 from offered me 5x the price for my 1999 14060. The deal is done. I don't need both, and the SBDX001 to my mind is simply better. I still have my bought-from-new 2007 Sea Dweller for Instabrag. The bracelet at least has solid end-links
I think the trouble is that in 20 years or so, all Seiko has done to the watch is slap a ceramic bezel on, change the crystal to sapphire, put an x on the crown and made the lume application more blobby.
By contrast, other dive watches have had movement revisions, bracelet and case redesigns, Broad refinements in the overall manufacture etc etc.
The mm300 is a really cool watch, and super iconic for seiko fans but its not really kept up with the competition, despite prices increasing.
The SLA055/7 might be a different story,. i've never handled one though
SLA055 is a noticeable step up IMHO in terms of case finishing and dial work. But it's priced as such. No bracelet though.
I can't argue with those that hate on the bracelet compared to their expectations or fit or modern equivalents. It makes perfect sense.
But I'd gently note that the original SBDX001 was released in 2000, which makes it a contemporary to my 1999-era 14060*. That one has a pressed clasp, folded end-links, and a movement identical to the one fitted to the old Explorer so adoringly described by Walt Odets :D
...and I love the 14060 just the same. These watches were built as tools for divers, not to flash on Instabrag. And all those Seiko or Rol*x wearing real divers, explorers, cavers and climbers did just fine with their 1990s and 2000-era watches with their unacceptable bracelets. I hear moans from time to time about the old Rol*x bracelets, but nothing like the opprobrium heaped upon Seiko for similar-era efforts, which are (to my best unbiased opinion as an owner of both) objectively superior.
As to price, well Seiko never increased the Yen price of the SBDX001 during its 14-year run. The pound however... well it has lost 54% of its value. . That's "just" inflation. It additionally lost a third of its value against the Yen in the last 30 years (lumpy, but the trend is obvious).
Seiko have increased their Yen prices (only on new models though) and that, combined with the devaluation of the pound, means anyone (like some of us ancient forum dwellers) who recall the 2000s like they were yesterday, will likely be disappointed. But I think Seiko are doing just fine, and unlike some watchmakers, still make models aimed at the "lower end" of the market.
But 1000 simply isn't what it used to be.
TT
*For what it's worth, the same shop I just bought my SBDX001 from offered me 5x the price for my 1999 14060. The deal is done. I don't need both, and the SBDX001 to my mind is simply better. I still have my bought-from-new 2007 Sea Dweller for Instabrag. The bracelet at least has solid end-links
Agreed on all points, and I just wished I kept my 14060M two liner a bit longer, boy what value it has now,,,,,
- - - Updated - - -
You still have one David?
You sneaky so and so ;)
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Lot of sense spoken.I can't argue with those that hate on the bracelet compared to their expectations or fit or modern equivalents. It makes perfect sense.
But I'd gently note that the original SBDX001 was released in 2000, which makes it a contemporary to my 1999-era 14060*. That one has a pressed clasp, folded end-links, and a movement identical to the one fitted to the old Explorer so adoringly described by Walt Odets :D
...and I love the 14060 just the same. These watches were built as tools for divers, not to flash on Instabrag. And all those Seiko or Rol*x wearing real divers, explorers, cavers and climbers did just fine with their 1990s and 2000-era watches with their unacceptable bracelets. I hear moans from time to time about the old Rol*x bracelets, but nothing like the opprobrium heaped upon Seiko for similar-era efforts, which are (to my best unbiased opinion as an owner of both) objectively superior.
As to price, well Seiko never increased the Yen price of the SBDX001 during its 14-year run. The pound however... well it has lost 54% of its value. . That's "just" inflation. It additionally lost a third of its value against the Yen in the last 30 years (lumpy, but the trend is obvious).
Seiko have increased their Yen prices (only on new models though) and that, combined with the devaluation of the pound, means anyone (like some of us ancient forum dwellers) who recall the 2000s like they were yesterday, will likely be disappointed. But I think Seiko are doing just fine, and unlike some watchmakers, still make models aimed at the "lower end" of the market.
But 1000 simply isn't what it used to be.
TT
*For what it's worth, the same shop I just bought my SBDX001 from offered me 5x the price for my 1999 14060. The deal is done. I don't need both, and the SBDX001 to my mind is simply better. I still have my bought-from-new 2007 Sea Dweller for Instabrag. The bracelet at least has solid end-links
Nothing wrong with the SBDX001 bracelet, apart from the fact that the links are flat and tall and not amenable to small wrists.
Pins and collars are perfect and very safe. They are a very sound Technical Solution. I love the clasp. When I spend hours diving/spearfishing it lets me ratchet in/out according to depth (hence suit compression) without having to take off the watch and risk dropping it.
Seiko makes one of the best diving bracelets around in the SBBN015. Each and every link is removable, so you can easily maintain it in the future. Same with the LX (SNR029) bracelet.
I agree, the 14060M was near perfect as a no nonsense tool dive watch for me too. Bought it for 3.5K Euros NIB and sold it for much less on this forum, many years ago. Certainly wish I held onto it longer and sold it to an Instabrag poser who'll never get it wet for 10K Euro or so :). Oh well, you live and learn.
The SLA055 is very nice. I love the everbrilliant steel on my SBDX035 bezel. Such a brilliant white sheen. But it has no bracelet, no screw down crystal and nothing 'special' about it, like for example being He proof without needing an HRV, like the MM300 does.
We have to wait and see I guess.
Oh yes, it's a heavy thing, especially after wearing a 9mm Seiko quartz but it has the best dial and hand set. It screams SEIKO!Agreed on all points, and I just wished I kept my 14060M two liner a bit longer, boy what value it has now,,,,,
- - - Updated - - -
You still have one David?
You sneaky so and so ;)
I don't mind the bracelet, it could be better and the ratchet could be neater but somehow it just works and looks right.
Oh yes, it's a heavy thing, especially after wearing a 9mm Seiko quartz but it has the best dial and hand set. It screams SEIKO!
I don't mind the bracelet, it could be better and the ratchet could be neater but somehow it just works and looks right.
It sure does, it was the watch that made me feel really good when wearing it, it survived Suriname, swimming in the sea and rivers and just kept looking good.
Maybe one day.....
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
[mention]Onelasttime [/mention] you ready to give it back yet?!
I have bought two SLA021's this past year and I certainly didn't buy them for the bracelet. I bought them as the watch head (like all mm300's) screams quality. The watch just works and I doubt there are many better dive watches out there as it is stunning. I didn't pay anywhere near retail for them so that softened the blow with my thought on the bracelet. Straight on to a nice soft silicone strap for me.
I much prefer the rubber strap from the SBDX001 and SBDX017. The silicone one is a fluff magnet but would otherwise be nice.
I took delivery of my first MM300 yesterday (SLA023). The bracelet lasted 10 minutes on my wrist before I switched to the silicone strap, which transformed the watch into being very comfortable and wearable for me. It is bigger and heavier than any watch I've owned before but somehow the design and fit just works (even on my 6.75 wrist).
What? I can't hear you.
I must be the only man in the world who actually likes the bracelet. I appreciate it in the same way I appreciate the SKX jubilee - it sounds and feels cheap and rattly, and looks like it might break if you stood up too quick, but it's actually tough as boots and the ratchet is handy for those hot flushes.
I'm surprised you didn't go for that minty 017?
EDIT: I forgot the pic
Last edited by Onelasttime; 3rd February 2023 at 14:05.
I've never ever worn an OEM Seiko rubber strap as they are too thick and not very comfortable either.
What you need is a nice soft, non static silicone strap like a Barton Elite, or even better, a Bisonstrap........
Last edited by j111dja; 3rd February 2023 at 14:49.
Nope, you're not on your own. I like the look of the bracelet, the feel of it, the clasp is superb, when you get hot and your wrist swells let it out a notch, it's not too precious to accept a bump or two, and it suits the tool watch aesthetics.
I must be the only man in the world who actually likes the bracelet. I appreciate it in the same way I appreciate the SKX jubilee - it sounds and feels cheap and rattly, and looks like it might break if you stood up too quick, but it's actually tough as boots and the ratchet is handy for those hot flushes.
I'm surprised you didn't go for that minty 017?
EDIT: I forgot the pic
I also don't understand people's aversion to pins and collars, for me they are far more secure than tiny threaded screws. I can only assume those who don't like them are too ham-fisted or impatient to assemble them correctly. Once done, forget them, whereas I am forever checking screws are secure.
Of course, it's also superb on a waffle strap.
Based on all the feedback here over the years, I think that most forum members would prefer screw pins over pins and collars. I've lost count as to how many watches I've bought here over the last 20 years with missing collars or/and pins, making the spare links useless.
A touch of thread lock on a bracelet link screw, they never come loose but are still easy to remove.
Last edited by j111dja; 3rd February 2023 at 15:16.
Those Bison straps look great but how do you fit the Seiko fat springbars?I've never ever worn an OEM Seiko rubber strap as they are too thick and not very comfortable either.
What you need is a nice soft, non static silicone strap like a Barton Elite, or even better, a Bisonstrap........
Last edited by Rocket Man; 3rd February 2023 at 17:16.
I tried to go for it myself, but the seller would not ship to me in Malta. Tried to arrange having it delivered to UK, but seller sold it to someone in the UK in the meantime.
Oh well...
I saw it and thought I was going to go for it too but had a lot on at work and completely forgot.
Going to do a bit more digging on 001 Vs 017 and then fully commit to one and stop messing around.
Last edited by wileeeeeey; 4th February 2023 at 00:25.
Thats a nice looking strap, thank you. Have a Barton and its ok so wouldnt mind an upgrade which isnt 60 and up
You can't fit the fat bars on this strap. Well, I've never tried to fit them.
I rarely use the fat Seiko bars as it limits your choice of straps, like OEM straps or Uncle Seiko straps as examples.
Your can wear any 20mm strap you like on an mm300 with properly seated spring bars. The watch has drilled lugs so you don't want to use thin spring bars as they risk passing through the lug holes, plus they wouldn't be strong enough anyway. If in doubt, try fitting the springs bars on their own.
There are so many styles of spring bar available nowadays. You need spring bars with a collar diameter that's bigger than the lug holes diameter on the inside of the mm300's lugs.
The perfect upgrade on quick release spring bars are upgraded, thicker quick release bars as they are easy to remove and replace. You can also remove the quick release bars for standard spring bars. A simple process.
The Fluororubber BisonStrap is probably the most comfortable, well made strap available, and it looks great too. I use them on a lot of my watches with the standard (or upgraded) quick release spring bars or converting them to standard spring bars ( if the release lever fouls on the case, and that's a problem on watch heads with flat cases between the lugs).
Last edited by j111dja; 4th February 2023 at 01:28.
Less than 20. They are brilliant straps.
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