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Thread: Bremont Watches - New £50M Investment from Hedge Fund Manager - What next?

  1. #1
    Master smokey99's Avatar
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    Bremont Watches - New £50M Investment from Hedge Fund Manager - What next?

    Just seen this on Sky News and appears in the FT and Watchpro websites.

    It will be interesting to see what these means for the brand and where it goes especially after they've just invested a big lump in their new Henley production facility and therefore already made the big leap forward.

    One to watch.

    https://www.watchpro.com/bremonts-48-8m-investment/


    https://www.ft.com/content/02a7ba9c-...5-808e47b3aef8
    Last edited by smokey99; 23rd January 2023 at 13:45.

  2. #2
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Where do you get the '£100m investment' from?

    That's not what is written in either the Watchpro or FT articles.

    Here's the FT link for anyone that wants to read the article -

    https://archive.is/gBdgi
    Last edited by jwg663; 23rd January 2023 at 12:29.
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  3. #3
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    I must change my subscription - the FT Weekend doesn't normally have this kind of content.

    Die Zeit verwandelt uns nicht, sie entfaltet uns nur.

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    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    Where do you get the '£100m investment' from?

    That's not what is written in either the Watchpro or FT articles.
    Why be so aggressive and not explain the error?

    So, the OP read the article wrongly and the £100m is what the company is now valued at with a circa £48m investment.

    It's certainly interesting. From a brand started and run by two brothers to now a major player owned and run by private equity investment. As long as the remember their roots and don't become just another brand.

  5. #5
    Master smokey99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Why be so aggressive and not explain the error?

    So, the OP read the article wrongly and the £100m is what the company is now valued at with a circa £48m investment.

    It's certainly interesting. From a brand started and run by two brothers to now a major player owned and run by private equity investment. As long as the remember their roots and don't become just another brand.
    Yes sorry I blended Value and Investment in my excitement to break the story!

    Doesn't really change the story though.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Why be so aggressive and not explain the error?

    So, the OP read the article wrongly and the £100m is what the company is now valued at with a circa £48m investment.
    Have to say, that was precisely my thought too.

  7. #7
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Why be so aggressive and not explain the error?

    So, the OP read the article wrongly and the £100m is what the company is now valued at with a circa £48m investment.

    It's certainly interesting. From a brand started and run by two brothers to now a major player owned and run by private equity investment. As long as the remember their roots and don't become just another brand.
    There's nothing aggressive in what I wrote.

    I asked a simple question about the OP's '£100m investment' statement & pointed out that his two quoted sources did not confirm this. I didn't know when I made my post whether the OP had other information or had made an error. It was for him to expand/explain, which he has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGJG View Post
    Have to say, that was precisely my thought too.
    See above.
    ______

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  8. #8
    Master FrontierGibberish's Avatar
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    The BS level from one of their big new investors is so high it might even make Bremont blush.


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  9. #9
    With that investment from that quarter, they now have the marketing clout for that to become true.

    Neither a fan nor a naysayer, but it will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

  10. #10
    Master smokey99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    The BS level from one of their big new investors is so high it might even make Bremont blush.


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    Well he’s certainly got the value appreciation point very wrong but I guess he’s really hoping this for his £48M investment.

    Only time will telll……excuse the pun


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    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey99 View Post
    Well he’s certainly got the value appreciation point very wrong but I guess he’s really hoping this for his £48M investment.

    Only time will telll……excuse the pun


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    £48m isn't far off the depreciation of a Bremont from new

  12. #12
    V good ;)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Why be so aggressive and not explain the error?

    So, the OP read the article wrongly and the £100m is what the company is now valued at with a circa £48m investment.

    It's certainly interesting. From a brand started and run by two brothers to now a major player owned and run by private equity investment. As long as the remember their roots and don't become just another brand.
    What roots? Carrots in that famous French field?

    Becoming just another brand has, I'm sure been their plan all along.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dkpw View Post
    What roots? Carrots in that famous French field?

    Becoming just another brand has, I'm sure been their plan all along.
    Can you give us an example of a brand that isn’t now just another brand?

  15. #15
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Some clarification required here:

    Bill Ackman has not, on his own, invested £48.8m into Bremont.

    There are two investors behind the £48.8m sum: one is Ackman & the other is the majority shareholder in Bremont, Hellcat Acquisitions LC, a Delaware-based Special Purpose Vehicle.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  16. #16
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    The BS level from one of their big new investors is so high it might even make Bremont blush.


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    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  17. #17
    Journeyman
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    Interesting - I didn't know Bill was into watches!

  18. #18
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    I actually think it is a good step forward for bremont.
    Love them or hate them, they have done good things for the watch industry in Britain.
    I hope the investment will enable them to continue to invest in the UK and continue producing such nice watches!


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  19. #19
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontierGibberish View Post
    The BS level from one of their big new investors is so high it might even make Bremont blush.
    Which part of his statement is factually bs?

  20. #20
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkpw View Post
    What roots? Carrots in that famous French field?

    Becoming just another brand has, I'm sure been their plan all along.
    Being a small engineering company in the south of England, set up by two enthusiastic brothers and which over the years has produced some outstanding and visually unique time pieces. What have you done in the last 20 years, looked for more reasons to insult people?

    Their plan has been and still is to bring watch making back to the UK on a large scale. Seems like they've been doing a damn good job of it so far. The only downside is that when any company needs large scale investment, outsiders come in to play that may not have the same ethos. That was my point about not becoming just another brand. I suspect the brothers still want Bremont watches to be different to other mainstream watches. The investors tend to care about money and so may not.

  21. #21
    Journeyman Afhgus's Avatar
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    They are a success story some people here utterly loath. This place stinks sometime

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  22. #22
    Craftsman hicksmat's Avatar
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    what are the resale values like on a Bremont? thats usually my barometer of a watch brand.....

  23. #23
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Always found that a very odd way of looking at any brand, watch or otherwise.

    If I had a pound for every person who has said that they really wanted a product as they thought it was the best available but they'll wait until they find one pre-owned or on sale because they lose a lot of their initial cost straight away, I'd be a very rich man.

    case in point being comments about Grand Seiko on this forum. Brilliant watches by all accounts but they devalue quite quickly. The same can be said about most car brands, Aston Martin in particular and who would say that Aston Martin don't make very good cars.

    as for Bremont, in my experience the mainstream watches devalue quite quickly but a number of the historic limited edition watches have held their value quite well or even increased in value. Make of that what you will.

  24. #24
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afhgus View Post
    They are a success story some people here utterly loath. This place stinks sometime

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    They have come a long way since the stand at goodwood.

    They make good well built watches. I find the rate of their expansion quite impressive.

  25. #25
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hicksmat View Post
    what are the resale values like on a Bremont? that's usually my barometer of a watch brand.....
    Depends entirely on the watch in question. For example, special editions sell for well above the original RRP (see below). The non-special editions depreciate like most other brands.

    By way of example, I searched for over 2-years for a Rose Gold Codebreaker that originally retailed for £13k. In that time I found two and bought the second I found for £21k around 3 years ago. I have occasionally looked subsequently to see if any others are for sale and not found a single one. Even the stainless steel models are hard to find and also sell for far in excess of the original retail value.

    I also own an ALT1-C Polished Black, two military special editions and one other special edition.

  26. #26
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    Bremont Watches - New £50M Investment from Hedge Fund Manager - What next?

    I would love a code breaker, best LE for me. I really liked the longitude on the wrist too.
    Last edited by Middo; 29th January 2023 at 15:54.

  27. #27
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    By way of example, I searched for over 2-years for a Rose Gold Codebreaker that originally retailed for £13k.
    Are you sure about the original rrp of the RG Codebreaker. I thought it was around £25k/$34k?

  28. #28
    ttps://www.hodinkee.com/articles/first-look-at-the-bremont-codebreaker-a-flyback-gmt-from-bletchley-park.

    This article states the price for the gold version is $33995 so £25K would sound about right


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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middo View Post
    They have come a long way since the stand at goodwood.

    They make good well built watches. I find the rate of their expansion quite impressive.
    My sentiments exactly and I also recall seeing them for the first time at Goodwood FoS when they had just launched.

    ~£50m is hell of an investment for them so interesting to see what impact it has
    Last edited by MartC; 30th January 2023 at 11:57.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afhgus View Post
    They are a success story some people here utterly loath. This place stinks sometime

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    One thing I've never understood, and still trying!!, is how so many "successful" businesses are making huge loses...

    I've only ever had small businesses but if I didn't make a profit I didn't eat :0(

  31. #31
    Master Skier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Are you sure about the original rrp of the RG Codebreaker. I thought it was around £25k/$34k?
    Not any longer! I can't recall where I got the £13k number from but either misinformed or poor memory; far more likely to be the latter!

  32. #32
    Craftsman theancientmariner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    One thing I've never understood, and still trying!!, is how so many "successful" businesses are making huge loses...

    I've only ever had small businesses but if I didn't make a profit I didn't eat :0(
    It's only a loss on paper, usually due to large scale investment. You only make a profit on what you sell so imagine that you make £50k profit per year and someone comes along and gives you £200k to invest in the company. You spend the £200k on infrastructure which is a purchase but you've still only made a £50k profit so on paper you've made a £150k loss (£50k-£200k) when in fact your 'real' profit has remained the same. Obviously the person giving you the £200k would expect to see a return at some point but it might not be for years. That's just one example of course, there are other ways of accounting for a loss.

    as an example, from what I've read, Amazon didn't make a profit for at least a decade once the dot.com boom hit and large investors got involved. Jeff Bezos seems to be doing ok.

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