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Thread: Rolex getting their hands in the grey market

  1. #51
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pan16520 View Post
    Apologies I meant at above retail prices
    That is incorrect - they can sell at whatever price they choose, always have been able to.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  2. #52

    Rolex getting their hands in the grey market

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    That is incorrect - they can sell at whatever price they choose, always have been able to.
    Not seen many Authorised Dealers selling a lot of stock at massive profit above retail.Thought it was just the greys
    Always interested in picking up a Rolex at slightly above list

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  3. #53
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazza. View Post
    I think its really good idea, buying a used watch you know has been serviced and is 100% genuine
    plus comes with a 2 year warranty
    Better than finding out years later its a high end fake
    Certification of authenticity will not mean "serviced". It will be interesting when a dealer sends a watch for authentication and is told it will need £1-2K of work done before they will authenticate...
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  4. #54
    Everyone has been slagging the grey market dealers for eternity and now they slag down the OEM option.

    Massively funny.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    Certification of authenticity will not mean "serviced". .
    Do you know this for certain?

    I would imagine for Rolex to provide a 2 year warranty the watch would have been serviced but until its confirmed its anyones guess.

  6. #56
    Master DMC102's Avatar
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    Quite a few people seem to have assumed that these watches will be serviced, but it it certainly doesn't say anywhere HERE that they will.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC102 View Post
    Quite a few people seem to have assumed that these watches will be serviced, but it it certainly doesn't say anywhere HERE that they will.
    I think they are being very opaque. But that link does also reference the service booklet again. I’m assuming they are serviced. They need to be confident in the two year warranty. It would be a nightmare if they chanced it without servicing them and loads came back within the warranty period.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    I think they are being very opaque. But that link does also reference the service booklet again. I’m assuming they are serviced. They need to be confident in the two year warranty. It would be a nightmare if they chanced it without servicing them and loads came back within the warranty period.
    Agreed.

    The timepiece comes with the Rolex Certified Pre-Owned seal, a two-year international guarantee card, a service booklet and a guarantee booklet

  9. #59
    Master DMC102's Avatar
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    What's a 'service booklet' though? All my Rolexes have a little booklet with 'Guarantee Manual' and 'International Service' printed on the cover. Inside is a page of text about the guarantee (in several languages) and a list of the addresses of the worldwide service centres. Could it be just that?

    Send your Rolex for a service and it won't come back with a 'Service Booklet' to prove it.

    If they're being opaque, then why? If you're getting a service / overhaul / polish / whatever in addition to the authentication and guarantee, why would they not say so?

    Also, looking at the details of any of the watches in the Bucherer CPO selection, there's no mention of the age of any of them, and every one of them has a 'Tightness' rating of 'Water resistant'. Seems odd to me, and I can't see any basis for assuming that these watches have been freshly serviced - all the better if they have, but I'm not so sure.

  10. #60
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    We all thought it would help stop some of the madness going on with the grey market and prices but Rolex just came in with a wrecking ball and upped the anti instead

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by DMC102 View Post
    'Seems odd to me, and I can't see any basis for assuming that these watches have been freshly serviced - all the better if they have, but I'm not so sure.
    Rolex say “It guarantees that these watches benefit from the quality criteria inherent to all Rolex products”

    That’s a statement that implies to the same standard as new.

    Given that all the watches are over three years old they will have to go through the service centre to bring cosmetic defects up to standard, I just don’t see them skipping a service. Especially when they’re guaranteed for two years and the service centres are such sticklers for replacement parts however unnecessary.

    They’d open themselves up to major scrutiny if they’re not serviced, and I can’t see a good reason why they wouldn’t be.

    Imagine you pay £16700 for a GMT ceramic and it’s not keeping time in 24 months, you send it to Rolex and they say a full service is recommended. That’s not benefiting from the quality criteria inherent to all Rolex.

  12. #62
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    I thought you did get a service booklet when you get it serviced by Rolex. I’ve had a few watches with a service booklet along with the service card. It’s a specific booklet, describing the actual servicing process if memory recalls correctly.

  13. #63
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Rolex say “It guarantees that these watches benefit from the quality criteria inherent to all Rolex products”

    That’s a statement that implies to the same standard as new.

    Given that all the watches are over three years old they will have to go through the service centre to bring cosmetic defects up to standard, I just don’t see them skipping a service. Especially when they’re guaranteed for two years and the service centres are such sticklers for replacement parts however unnecessary.

    They’d open themselves up to major scrutiny if they’re not serviced, and I can’t see a good reason why they wouldn’t be.

    Imagine you pay £16700 for a GMT ceramic and it’s not keeping time in 24 months, you send it to Rolex and they say a full service is recommended. That’s not benefiting from the quality criteria inherent to all Rolex.

    These watches are supplied by the AD, not Rolex themselves through the AD like a new one. In the “new” Rolex world, the AD is an agent of Rolex, whereas with used watches, the ad is the owner and supplier of the used watch.


    As I’ve said elsewhere it’ll be like the “Approved Used” motor trade where there will be a “99 point check” and a set of “standards” the selling dealer will have to adhere to (for example paying Rolex for any service or remedial work that’s required) to get the “tag” and be “approved used” with the 2 year warranty etc.

    Rolex will make a fortune from full services and/or replacement crowns and glass that they recommend and the AD has that much spread across the watch there’s no need to cut corners on prep……

  14. #64
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    Buying certified pre owned from an AD would help build relationship with the AD, therefore increase chances of getting a watch at retail. This is what a Bucherer salesman at Covent Garden told me. So even though they are selling for the highest premiums, if the customer wants a hard to get Rolex at AD at retail price, it might justify the additional premium.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    These watches are supplied by the AD, not Rolex themselves through the AD like a new one. In the “new” Rolex world, the AD is an agent of Rolex, whereas with used watches, the ad is the owner and supplier of the used watch.


    As I’ve said elsewhere it’ll be like the “Approved Used” motor trade where there will be a “99 point check” and a set of “standards” the selling dealer will have to adhere to (for example paying Rolex for any service or remedial work that’s required) to get the “tag” and be “approved used” with the 2 year warranty etc.

    Rolex will make a fortune from full services and/or replacement crowns and glass that they recommend and the AD has that much spread across the watch there’s no need to cut corners on prep……
    The AD isn’t an agent of Rolex for new sales, they are an independent distributor buying the stock from Rolex and reselling to the end user in the usual way.

    Agreed on the used side, though I think Rolex will insist on a service every time.

  16. #66
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    So who is responsible for buying in genuine watches at the front end ?

    Main agents ? In most cases that would be…...LOL !

    “My colleague Drake is just trying to get the back off your Sea-Dweller so he can look for the case number, Sir.”
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 6th December 2022 at 09:41.

  17. #67
    I guess now we’ll see even less new watches at retail. What’s stopping the AD registering the watch to Joe Bloggs, sizing it, sticking it back in the locker for a month and then selling it on at grey prices?

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    . What’s stopping the AD registering the watch to Joe Bloggs, sizing it, sticking it back in the locker for a month and then selling it on at grey prices?
    The three year old bit. Obviously they can stick them in the safe for three years, but used prices could drop between now and then.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I guess now we’ll see even less new watches at retail. What’s stopping the AD registering the watch to Joe Bloggs, sizing it, sticking it back in the locker for a month and then selling it on at grey prices?
    If they’re prepared to sit on all these watches for 3 years, I suppose they could.
    However Rolex/CPO system will likely have some sort of paper trail in place to stop foul play.

  20. #70
    It's great. More readily available part exchanges and watches you can buy, with a seal of approval, as opposed to some shabby dealers own (non-backed) guarantee, when they might be out of business the next week. I respect and value that seal of approval - not all Rolex AD's are idiots, as is regularly portrayed by the Rolex sales fella here.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacDeath View Post
    It's great. More readily available part exchanges and watches you can buy, with a seal of approval, as opposed to some shabby dealers own (non-backed) guarantee, when they might be out of business the next week. I respect and value that seal of approval - not all Rolex AD's are idiots, as is regularly portrayed by the Rolex sales fella here.
    Most grown-ups have the capacity to determine which are the shabby dealers whose warranty is worth nothing and which have long-won reputations, multi-million pound companies and recognised competence.

    Who said that all Rolex ADs are idiots? I would say that most are not competent to identify genuine secondhand Rolex, which is very different. Most have never had to.

    Who is the “Rolex sales fella” here?

    This development will make secondhand Rolex more expensive than they would have been, as the CPO watches add a further, very high benchmark. Fine for me, not so sure it best serves most tz-ers except to give them an expensive option.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    The three year old bit. Obviously they can stick them in the safe for three years, but used prices could drop between now and then.
    Ah, I missed that bit…. Cheers


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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacDeath View Post
    It's great. More readily available part exchanges and watches you can buy, with a seal of approval, as opposed to some shabby dealers own (non-backed) guarantee, when they might be out of business the next week. I respect and value that seal of approval - not all Rolex AD's are idiots, as is regularly portrayed by the Rolex sales fella here.
    Couldn't agree more. I see it as a positive move. At least now, they can say 'We can't get you brand new, but we do have this pre-owned' - which....is better than nothing. They may offer good payment plans too, whilst also creating a buying history.

  24. #74
    This is my understanding. It will count towards spend/ buying history which will bump them up the list and allow them to px at a later date towards a new model if they wish.

    I think it’s a win win for the AD’s and gives your average person the reassurance they are purchasing something that Rolex will stand behind with a 2 year warranty.

  25. #75
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    £53.3k for a loose Daytona vs £30k for grey unworn full set.





    westside christian school

  26. #76
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    The AD isn’t an agent of Rolex for new sales, they are an independent distributor buying the stock from Rolex and reselling to the end user in the usual way.
    I think you’re mistaken here, the AD is definitely an agent.

    Currently, Rolex dictates how the shop is set up and how the display is made, and train the staff.

    Rolex supply “exhibition pieces” that sit in the window and aren’t available to sell.

    The AD takes orders/expressions of interest/makes lists (delete as required)

    Rolex supplies random watches to the AD that they allocate to the people on the list etc

    They don’t buy stock and stick it in their window to sell……

  27. #77
    Master DMC102's Avatar
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    On the question of servicing, Bucherer have advised me that

    All timepieces entering the Rolex Certified Pre-Owned programme have undergone a full assessment of performance and authenticity by a Rolex Accredited watchmaker. The movement has been carefully examined, and any parts that no longer meet Rolex requirements have been systematically replaced to ensure optimum function.

    Furthermore, all Rolex Certified Pre-Owned models come with a two-year international warranty for guaranteed precision and reliability. Alongside a water resistance test on the crystal, crown and seals, all watches have been fully regulated with a test of power reserve.


    I don't think this amounts to a full service and it doesn't sound as if it's done by Rolex themselves, but there's definitely some added value there.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I think you’re mistaken here, the AD is definitely an agent.

    Currently, Rolex dictates how the shop is set up and how the display is made, and train the staff.

    Rolex supply “exhibition pieces” that sit in the window and aren’t available to sell.

    The AD takes orders/expressions of interest/makes lists (delete as required)

    Rolex supplies random watches to the AD that they allocate to the people on the list etc

    They don’t buy stock and stick it in their window to sell……
    That’s all part of the distribution agreement between the manufacturer and distributor. It is a distribution system, with requirements to be met in terms of how the shop is set up etc. Rolex sell the products to the dealer, and they resell to the clients. Rolex and the dealer will agree allocations to the dealer of x number of each watch model per year (delivered randomly through the year perhaps) etc. It isn’t an agency, that’s a very different legal relationship :)

    The client lists are the dealers’ too, so the dealer sells what it acquires from Rolex to the clients the dealer chooses.

    I imagine exhibition pieces are just loaned to the dealer by Rolex.
    Last edited by Berty234; 6th December 2022 at 22:28.

  29. #79
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    So, some of the open questions are answered in this video. Nice that original box is included if available but the rest of the video, if legit, is shocking.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ecxI1bsDkQQ

  30. #80
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    Im not sure if this video has been linked here before?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T8fpwJdavc

    However, quite a good outlook of the mechanism Rolex CPO is trying to employ.

    If this is true/prophetic, then to me it still points to arrogance, greed and profiteering. Rolex intends to farm our disposable so it seems?

    I prefer the good ole days when AD's simply raised prices to the point where they were just one watch short of enough buyers.

    I cant wish it well. I hope it fails in some ways but fanboys will be fanboys and have to have a watch just like everyone down the pub.

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    So, some of the open questions are answered in this video. Nice that original box is included if available but the rest of the video, if legit, is shocking.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ecxI1bsDkQQ
    Complete speculation/taken from interweb. Load of nonsense.

  32. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Guycord View Post
    Im not sure if this video has been linked here before?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T8fpwJdavc

    However, quite a good outlook of the mechanism Rolex CPO is trying to employ.

    If this is true/prophetic, then to me it still points to arrogance, greed and profiteering. Rolex intends to farm our disposable so it seems?

    I prefer the good ole days when AD's simply raised prices to the point where they were just one watch short of enough buyers.

    I cant wish it well. I hope it fails in some ways but fanboys will be fanboys and have to have a watch just like everyone down the pub.
    More utter nonsense.
    This is getting beyond a joke.

  33. #83
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    The answer is simple, if you don't like the Rolex business model, buy something else.

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by watchlovr View Post
    More utter nonsense.
    This is getting beyond a joke.
    As usual people who profess no interest in Rolex are busy discussing this CPO business threadbare:-)

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    As usual people who profess no interest in Rolex are busy discussing this CPO business threadbare:-)
    It has ever been thus.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchlovr View Post
    Complete speculation/taken from interweb. Load of nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    As usual people who profess no interest in Rolex are busy discussing this CPO business threadbare:-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    It has ever been thus.
    So you all know this guy and can personally testify to the fact that he is lying?

    That’s right, no you can’t. You are all so full of shit.

  37. #87
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    10% base rate will sort this nonsense out ….. I’ve been there …!


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  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    So you all know this guy and can personally testify to the fact that he is lying?

    That’s right, no you can’t. You are all so full of shit.
    We are not commenting on "this guy" we are commenting on the fact that those who appear to have no wish or intention of ever buying a Rolex spend a lot of time slagging the system off.

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitz View Post
    10% base rate will sort this nonsense out ….. I’ve been there …!


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    Hopefully not as potentially we might not need to go that far, this high an interest rate with inflation on utilities will cause a lot of collateral damage.


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  40. #90
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    A theory on where the pre owned Rolexes are coming from.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nHq5kIeyY

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    A theory on where the pre owned Rolexes are coming from.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nHq5kIeyY
    Didn’t this guy steal some watches/money in his previous YouTube channel, Timeless Watch Channel? Can’t remember the exact details though

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac11111 View Post
    Didn’t this guy steal some watches/money in his previous YouTube channel, Timeless Watch Channel? Can’t remember the exact details though
    Not sure of the exact details, but I think he borrowed some watches for review and took forever to return them to the owners.

  43. #93
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    I prefer Paul Thorpe’s notion that they are offloading their inventory of confiscated lost and stolen watches through the program.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    I prefer Paul Thorpe’s notion that they are offloading their inventory of confiscated lost and stolen watches through the program.
    Really, they're planning to re-furbish and sell on potentially lost and stolen goods?
    That's an interesting business model.

  45. #95

  46. #96
    An interesting take on this from someone I’ve found to be quite insightful


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  47. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Pan16520 View Post
    To quote the man himself “a rushed article”

  48. #98
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    info on the ROLEX CPO & The new LOST & STOLEN Register
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nHq5kIeyY

    As somebody said above they will be selling their display models etc... a very interesting proposition when the second hand market is higher the MSRP. Genius.
    "Owning one is almost as satisfying as making one." ~ Rolex 1973

  49. #99

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    I prefer Paul Thorpe’s notion that they are offloading their inventory of confiscated lost and stolen watches through the program.

    Comedy gold there.

  50. #100
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    I think Rolex was seeing all the profit made by the grey dealers and decided it can capture some. Their offer prices would be definitely the highest as they will guarantee authenticity, but I wonder what their bids would be... I don't see them having strong bids vs other dealers. And what would attract a customer selling to them rather than Watchfinder? Maybe the hope that the AD would allocate them a new watch at list price? Which is wishful thinking.

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