closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Has anyone bought a watch from EU lately

  1. #1
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doncaster
    Posts
    1,012

    Has anyone bought a watch from EU lately

    Iím just interested to know how anyone has got on buying watches from outside UK. Iíve seen a watch from a seller based in Italy. The watch is Ä2700. I am guessing there will be a significant levy on that in import tax, handling charges etc.

    Having bought a 30 yr old bike frame last year from the Netherlands which cost me quite a lump extra to get home Iím guessing landing the watch may be a challenge

  2. #2
    Craftsman eletos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    620
    Iíve just received a watch from an Italian AD, bought from a UK dealer.

    Bit surprised it came from the EU given all the tax/duties payable. I assume all that has been paid up?!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    11,665
    Blog Entries
    21
    Now UK is outside the EU then same costs apply as importing from any other country. 20%VAT on item and delivery charges and postage costs and admin fee from shipper all subject to 20% VAT. Expect about 30% all told on top of the asking price. (IMHO)
    ď Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.Ē HHGTTG

  4. #4
    Master j111dja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    6,352
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Now UK is outside the EU then same costs apply as importing from any other country. 20%VAT on item and delivery charges and postage costs and admin fee from shipper all subject to 20% VAT. Expect about 30% all told on top of the asking price. (IMHO)
    That sounds about right.

  5. #5
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    London/Surrey
    Posts
    349
    I purchased a watch on Amazon UK. To my surprise a week later I received a letter stating the watch was held in customs and I had to pay the duty to release it.

    This was a surprise as I wasnít aware the watch was coming from Germany.

    I didnít pay the duty and requested a refund as the watch wasnít such a good deal with the additional costs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Master ~dadam02~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    3,761
    Blog Entries
    14
    On some EU websites they state along the lines of "VAT and custom duties included". How can they do this?

  7. #7
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    25,350
    Blog Entries
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    On some EU websites they state along the lines of "VAT and custom duties included". How can they do this?
    By signing up with either (a) an HMRC VAT prepayment scheme for vendors outside the UK or (b) registering directly for UK VAT.


    Point (a) above deals primarily with items that are valued at £135 or less. Often this scheme is administered by a marketplace such as eBay or AliExpress (so everything eligible sold within the market is caught by it), but vendors who can stomach the paperwork can register for it themselves.

    This means that a watch valued at say, £2000, will usually not have UK VAT prepaid on it unless the vendor has chosen to register for UK VAT (point (b) above).


    CAUTION: Some EU vendors are either negligent or dishonest when it comes to export VAT. When an EU vendor sells to a customer outside the EU, they should NOT charge their own country's VAT. It's always been this way[1] since the single market and there is no excuse for not knowing it by now. But I have noticed that some EU vendors still get this wrong: They wrongly charge their own country's VAT and ship the item to a customer outside the EU (such as in the UK). The item then gets assessed for UK VAT when it is imported into the UK. There is no way for the UK buyer to claim back the wrongly charged EU country VAT. In some cases EU vendors really (still) don't know any better but in some cases it seems likely that they are dishonestly keeping the fake local 'VAT'.










    Footnote:
    1: With certain limited exception such as items prone to carousel fraud.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 1st December 2022 at 23:38.

  8. #8
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    2,198
    Asking for a friend.. if someone had a watch ready for collection in the EU is it cheaper to go collect and pay local VAT and fetch it back ( and declare) or have it posted and charged VAT and handling.

  9. #9
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    25,350
    Blog Entries
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Now UK is outside the EU then same costs apply as importing from any other country. 20%VAT on item and delivery charges and postage costs and admin fee from shipper all subject to 20% VAT. Expect about 30% all told on top of the asking price. (IMHO)
    And just to add: Don't forget Customs Duty (whose rates vary tremendously) or Excise Duty on items that meet the requirements.

    Happily watches are charged at a maximum of 20p (yes, £0.20) Customs Duty per watch, if they are charged at all.

  10. #10
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    25,350
    Blog Entries
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    Asking for a friend.. if someone had a watch ready for collection in the EU is it cheaper to go collect and pay local VAT and fetch it back ( and declare) or have it posted and charged VAT and handling.
    The following assumes it's worth more than £135.

    It depends. Usually I'd expect it would be cheaper to have it sent, taking air fares, etc. into account.

    If collecting from an EU VAT-registered vendor: You pay air/train/ferry/tolls/fuel fares and costs to get there and back. You should (sometimes/usually) be able to reclaim the EU country VAT on export[1] but there will probably be a fee for this, so in effect you won't get it all back. If the watch is being sold on the margin scheme (for second hand goods) then you will probably not be able to reclaim any EU country VAT at all. When you declare it on entry back into the UK, you'll pay UK VAT on it.

    If you buy from an EU VAT-registered vendor remotely: The EU vendor should[2] either charge no local EU country VAT (because it is being exported from the EU) or charge UK VAT if they have registered for UK VAT. On import into the UK, either the UK VAT is prepaid (if the vendor registered for UK VAT) or you pay UK VAT to Border Force/HMRC via the courier, and the courier's fee.







    Footnotes:
    1: I think VAT reclaim is still available in most EU countries, isn't it? Can anyone comment?

    2: See my caution in #7 above.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 1st December 2022 at 23:55.

  11. #11
    Master j111dja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    6,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Linc View Post
    I purchased a watch on Amazon UK. To my surprise a week later I received a letter stating the watch was held in customs and I had to pay the duty to release it.

    This was a surprise as I wasnít aware the watch was coming from Germany.

    I didnít pay the duty and requested a refund as the watch wasnít such a good deal with the additional costs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If a seller on Amazon clearly hides the fact that an item you have purchased is being shipped outside the UK, there is a simple solution. Contact the seller for them to pay all the fees. Amazon don't like sellers who are dishonest or who blatantly deceive their customers. It doesn't stop some from trying.
    Last edited by j111dja; 1st December 2022 at 23:57.

  12. #12
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    4,006
    As well as the 20% VAT and the courier charge (usually somewhere between £8 and £15), you also may have to factor in a long wait for your watch. I bought a watch from outside the UK (Australia, to be precise). It arrived at UK Customs in Coventry on 15 November, and as of today (1 December, 15 days later) it's still waiting for them to decide how much to charge. They will eventually write a paper letter to me (!) to let me know how much they want, at which point I'll be able to pay (online, at least) and then wait for Parcel Force to deliver it to me.

    Of course, you might be very lucky and it might bypass customs altogether, but that seems to be happening much less frequently than it used to.

  13. #13
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    UK, Maldives, Singapore
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    On some EU websites they state along the lines of "VAT and custom duties included". How can they do this?
    Loads show the full price including vat and customs.
    Honestly they all should it makes buying a breeze as you can still pick up items from Europe cheaper than the UK.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Thereís no Ďcustomsí.

  15. #15
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    London/Surrey
    Posts
    349
    Quote Originally Posted by j111dja View Post
    If a seller on Amazon clearly hides the fact that an item you have purchased is being shipped outside the UK, there is a simple solution. Contact the seller for them to pay all the fees. Amazon don't like sellers who are dishonest or who blatantly deceive their customers. It doesn't stop some from trying.
    Contacted the seller and he blatantly refused. He said I should have checked where the item was coming from. I said no, if I make a purchase on Amazon uk i assume itís coming from the uk or at least all VAT has been paid. Took my around 4 weeks to get my money back, even after asking Amazon to step in.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    11,665
    Blog Entries
    21
    Asking for a friend.. if someone had a watch ready for collection in the EU is it cheaper to go collect and pay local VAT and fetch it back ( and declare) or have it posted and charged VAT and handling.
    If they pay the EU VAT (23% in Portugal) for example, then you pay 20% VAT on import to UK and 20p duty (to be pedantic!). Obviously more than have it posted.

    Your friend may not know - it is common to have VAT free shopping on new items for 3rd country residence (like the UK) visiting EU - claim back the VAT on exit from the country like at the airport. Then you will declare the item if over £135 when entering the UK like a good citizen.

    BUT - prices in EU are higher than UK (even accounting with the variable exchange rates), so do your research.
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 2nd December 2022 at 20:27.
    ď Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.Ē HHGTTG

  17. #17
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    London
    Posts
    147
    20% VAT + Duty, on the price paid + shipping cost. Comes to high 20s in percentage. Pretty expensive!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jsong6688 View Post
    20% VAT + Duty, on the price paid + shipping cost. Comes to high 20s in percentage. Pretty expensive!
    What Duty? On a watch it is pennies (and below the threshold for collection).

  19. #19
    Master j111dja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Posts
    6,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Linc View Post
    Contacted the seller and he blatantly refused. He said I should have checked where the item was coming from. I said no, if I make a purchase on Amazon uk i assume itís coming from the uk or at least all VAT has been paid. Took my around 4 weeks to get my money back, even after asking Amazon to step in.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    He or she can refuse as much as they like. If the sale clearly does not state that's it's a non UK sale, you can then step it up to a complaint. Based on my experience, it has never worked out well for the seller.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Now UK is outside the EU then same costs apply as importing from any other country. 20%VAT on item and delivery charges and postage costs and admin fee from shipper all subject to 20% VAT. Expect about 30% all told on top of the asking price. (IMHO)
    GB is outside the EU for the purposes of this thread. The U.K. has another bit, which is not :)

  21. #21

    Has anyone bought a watch from EU lately

    Not a watch, but I bought a tent and some other paraphernalia from a Netherland outdoor company last week for 800 Euros. Taking advantage of - now is the winter of our discount tent and all that.

    Instead of paying 21% Dutch VAT I was charged UK 20% VAT automatically when I selected a UK shipping address.

    Shipping was around 30 Euros (much more than the 10 Euros if you had a EU address) which include duty paid.

    All turned up fine with no more to pay on delivery.

    Easy peasy lemon squeezy for those companies who have sorted themselves out to export to the UK.

  22. #22
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    West Wales
    Posts
    2,778
    Nomos state............

    All prices include applicable import taxes and duty,
    free shipping and returns

  23. #23
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    340
    To add to this thread: Bought a secondhand watch from Switzerland, which falls under some EU rules and not others. Once I had proved that I was in the UK the dealer removed the Swiss VAT. On receipt in the UK and I had to pay the UK VAT but no import tax as there is a zero import tax treaty between Switzerland and the UK.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    To add to this thread: Bought a secondhand watch from Switzerland, which falls under some EU rules and not others. Once I had proved that I was in the UK the dealer removed the Swiss VAT. On receipt in the UK and I had to pay the UK VAT but no import tax as there is a zero import tax treaty between Switzerland and the UK.
    Thereís no import tax on watches anyway (well 20p which isnít collected).

  25. #25
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    4,006
    Quote Originally Posted by sandman View Post
    What Duty? On a watch it is pennies (and below the threshold for collection).
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    There’s no import tax on watches anyway (well 20p which isn’t collected).
    I received a watch (from Australia) today, and along with the VAT and £25 ParcleFarce fees, I was also - to my surprise - charged 20p duty.

  26. #26
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    SW, UK
    Posts
    183
    The main problem is the insistence by HMRC on paying VAT on import of used goods.

    New watch is purchased in say Germany, Buyer pays German VAT at local rate.

    Same watch gets re-sold by either the original owner or a Professional Re-seller at marginal discount (if any) to the original price. In Germany, no further VAT would be charged within the EU on the watches second sale. On export to UK however, there would still be the 20% required by HMRC irrespective of prior ownership or not. However, the Reseller is unlikely to discount that local rate of tax or 20% for selling to the UK as its already baked into his margin.

    If you buy a new watch from the EU, I think you almost certainly will be able to get that netted-off for Export (no EU-Country specific VAT applied) and charged by HMRC as normal when it crosses the border.

    Seems more cost-effective to buy a watch new overseas and insist the VAT is netted-off than to buy used, where it may work-out more expensive than the UK.

  27. #27
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    21,576
    What frustrated me in the past was having to pay VAT on vintage watches from overseas that simply weren't available in the UK, the decision to buy from overseas wasn`t motivated by price. Just seems unfair to tax an item again and again. When I used to buy watches the exchange rate was much better and the overall deal, even including VAT, worked out OK. Speaking with my collectors head it's an expensive business trying to get a watch you really want, buying worldwide gives far better choice but forget about getting a good deal.

  28. #28
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    13,820
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    What frustrated me in the past was having to pay VAT on vintage watches from overseas that simply weren't available in the UK, the decision to buy from overseas wasn`t motivated by price. Just seems unfair to tax an item again and again. When I used to buy watches the exchange rate was much better and the overall deal, even including VAT, worked out OK. Speaking with my collectors head it's an expensive business trying to get a watch you really want, buying worldwide gives far better choice but forget about getting a good deal.
    Where were you buying from? In the past (ie pre-Brexit) you wouldn't pay VAT on import on watches from the EU, new or used, the VAT was paid locally.

    Luckily Brexit has saved us from all that, along with all the other untold benefits it has delivered.

    I used to buy quite a lot of things from the EU (notably Germany), but it's now become stupidly expensive and slow to do so (parcels sitting customs for over a week) - Saving me money, I guess, which is just as well...

    I bought some books from the US recently - No VAT (they got that right, at least), but I had to pay a 'handling fee' and few pennies of 'duty'.

    A while back I bought a few things from Germany - Some were faulty and returned and I found there's no simple process for reclaiming the VAT for returned goods as an individual (the process is geared to bulk importers, businesses) - I guess the government need all the financial help they can get at the moment... In the past, of course, the retailer would have refunded me VAT and all.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 22nd December 2022 at 12:14.
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  29. #29
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    25,350
    Blog Entries
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Guycord View Post
    The main problem is the insistence by HMRC on paying VAT on import of used goods.

    New watch is purchased in say Germany, Buyer pays German VAT at local rate.

    Same watch gets re-sold by either the original owner or a Professional Re-seller at marginal discount (if any) to the original price. In Germany, no further VAT would be charged within the EU on the watches second sale. On export to UK however, there would still be the 20% required by HMRC irrespective of prior ownership or not.
    This is the same everywhere. If you buy a watch second hand in the UK and then export it to the EU, the EU country you go to will charge VAT on it even though it's second hand.

    It's always been this way on second hand goods.

    Even when the UK was in the EU, this was a longstanding annoyance (and often surprise) for people buying second hand goods from the USA, Australia, rest of world, etc.

    Whilst I don't like it, the reason is obvious: There's no substantive way to tell the difference between new goods and second hand goods and so the only way to be 'safe' (from the government's perspective) when it comes to charging import taxes is to charge VAT on all goods, both new and second hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guycord View Post
    However, the Reseller is unlikely to discount that local rate of tax or 20% for selling to the UK as its already baked into his margin.
    This is the VAT margin scheme where the seller only charges VAT on their profit margin on used goods. In this case you can't reclaim this VAT on export. Same in both the UK and EU.

  30. #30
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    SW, UK
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon;[URL="tel:6127077"
    6127077[/URL]]This is the same everywhere. If you buy a watch second hand in the UK and then export it to the EU, the EU country you go to will charge VAT on it even though it's second hand.

    It's always been this way on second hand goods.

    Even when the UK was in the EU, this was a longstanding annoyance (and often surprise) for people buying second hand goods from the USA, Australia, rest of world, etc.

    Whilst I don't like it, the reason is obvious: There's no substantive way to tell the difference between new goods and second hand goods and so the only way to be 'safe' (from the government's perspective) when it comes to charging import taxes is to charge VAT on all goods, both new and second hand.



    This is the VAT margin scheme where the seller only charges VAT on their profit margin on used goods. In this case you can't reclaim this VAT on export. Same in both the UK and EU.
    yes

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information