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Thread: Goretex Jackets

  1. #51
    Master smokey99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Maybe things have moved on, but until recently too many urchins in TNF. Wouldn't surprise me if Arcteryx is already a urchin brand, having moved on from Canada Goose, Moncler, TNF etc.

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    Arc’teryx definitely now an urchin brand . I should know I live with one and we had to buy him an overpriced waterproof Mac for getting good GCSE results.

    Otherwise if you really want one then don’t rule out a women’s jacket of which there is a lot more stock available……..as long as you’re on the slim side.


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  2. #52
    I have a mountain equipment goretex pro, it’s like some weird space age material that keeps you warm and dry without being over hot or sweaty, it’s also very thin and super lightweight. Does have a hiking jacket vibe, but slim fit and performs so well I don’t care.
    It was also really expensive so might just be what the op is looking for. Worth the dosh though it’s on another level !

  3. #53
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    Acronym if you can find any, sells out quick despite high prices.

  4. #54
    I always liked the dead bird for the technical stuff, I was mildly perturbed when this popped up on YouTube recently.

    https://youtu.be/y9M9MRyxWfw
    Last edited by Jambo; 3rd December 2022 at 02:09.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambo View Post
    I always liked the dead bird for the technical stuff, I was mildly perturbed when this popped up on YouTube recently.

    https://youtu.be/y9M9MRyxWfw
    It's the Rolex or DMs or RB Aviator or Denim or Tweed effect, isn't it.

    Good tool --> Cool, popularity, wide awareness --> Fashion item

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambo View Post
    I always liked the dead bird for the technical stuff, I was mildly perturbed when this popped up on YouTube recently.

    https://youtu.be/y9M9MRyxWfw
    That’s an interesting watch, thanks for posting. Street fashion comes in waves, will the die hard Arc fans be there on the other side or with Arc have quadrupled in size and become part of the trinity TNF/ Patagonia/ Arcteryx?

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by smokey99 View Post
    Arc’teryx definitely now an urchin brand . I should know I live with one and we had to buy him an overpriced waterproof Mac for getting good GCSE results.

    Otherwise if you really want one then don’t rule out a women’s jacket of which there is a lot more stock available……..as long as you’re on the slim side.


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    I’d say TNF is def a fashion brand as there are a few outlets and it’s been a recognised street brand for a while, the Top Boy endorsement and bum bags slung over the chest as if you are selling.

    It’s always been this way, fashion bleeds through from lots of direction and it’s no different from I guess Reebok Pumps, Air Max, Jordan, BK Knights or whatever we wanted in the 80s or 90s.

    My 10yr old asked for a TNF “puffa” jacket, it made me look at why and it was obvious it was mostly boys and some girls wearing it in her school.

    I’ve never seen a youth in Edinburgh wearing Arcteryx but Patagucci is on toddlers to smaller kids, I prefer the credentials of the company, I’ve got t shirts that are at 15 years old and still in great shape.

    In the summer I picked up on Absolute Snow a xs winter women’s jacket from Patagonia which my daughter will get for Xmas, it might not be the brand she really wants but ultimately the only reason some kids are wearing this stuff is that as parents we endorse the companies values to them or just give in and buy what they want.

    A bargain, debatable.

    https://www.absolute-snow.co.uk/V/Pa...Black-(297632)

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Jacket will be used to ascend Kilimanjaro.
    I’d go trad for the Snows of Kilimanjaro, Ventile jacket or smock from Hilltrek.


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  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    It's the Rolex or DMs or RB Aviator or Denim or Tweed effect, isn't it.

    Good tool --> Cool, popularity, wide awareness --> Fashion item
    A lot of stuff, Rolex for example, is both.

  10. #60
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    I think brand enter fashion on an even smaller scale from city to city.

    Every kid in the late 80s had a Berghaus in Liverpool. Then came, Helly Hanson, North Sails, Henri Lloyd etc through the early 90s.

    In Liverpool technical gear has always been worn as fashion clothing by the youths.


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  11. #61
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    A lot of stuff, Rolex for example, is both.
    Agreed, although Rolex, like Land Rovers, have grown into eye-wateringly expensive tools (as well as fashion items). ;-)

  12. #62
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    You got your heart set on goretex?

    I bought a paramo Alta iii and it’s been brilliant from top of snowdon to the pub on weekends.

    Paramo eBay store sometimes has great deals.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Agreed, although Rolex, like Land Rovers, have grown into eye-wateringly expensive tools (as well as fashion items). ;-)
    Yes, more of a fashion item nowadays.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac82 View Post
    You got your heart set on goretex?

    I bought a paramo Alta iii and it’s been brilliant from top of snowdon to the pub on weekends.

    Paramo eBay store sometimes has great deals.
    To quote the OP “ Don’t want some boxy unflattering thing, and prefer a slimmer sleeker look”. IMO Paramo is some of the worst clothing for style and tailoring. It undoubtedly does a good job but doesn’t really match the OPs brief.

  15. #65
    I went into my shopping area today to try some stuff on. The is a Cotswold Outdoors and a huge Ultimate Outdoors, so I thought I would be sorted.

    Gortex stock was wiped out. Couldn’t even try on in my size S/M as no stock.

    Seems Goretex jackets are like semiconductors; not available.

    I did try on a Patagonia Torrentshell which I really liked, but the S was a little too tight and the arms of the M extended to my fingertips. Not Goretex though.

    Need to kick the pasty habit as you know your are carry a few too many pounds when you have to size up and deal with stupid arm lengths.

  16. #66
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    I’ve recently ordered Keela Stratus…which will be my first non Goretex waterproof jacket… dual protection tech looks interesting/innovative and also comes highly recommended.. great prices too..

    https://keelaoutdoors.com/product/stratus-sdp-shell/

    https://youtu.be/8RZXxRzBnEY


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  17. #67
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    Don’t know if anyone has tried these with any success but I had an OMM “waterproof” jacket made from eVent which is a gore TRX alternative. Honestly the least waterproof jacket I’ve ever had. It was like an old school tent that if your skin touched it from the inside water came through. I tried tech washing and re proofing all to no avail. Went arc’teryx gore tex in the end.

    (And OMM for those that don’t know run ultra marathons where you carry your own kit so should be no slouch in terms of performance)

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    That’s an interesting watch, thanks for posting. Street fashion comes in waves, will the die hard Arc fans be there on the other side or with Arc have quadrupled in size and become part of the trinity TNF/ Patagonia/ Arcteryx?
    I haven't bought another arc'teryx since my last Atom LT right back in Jan or so. Doubt I buy another piece any time soon, sizing has gone odd, quality down and pricing has crept up.....consequence of being a fashion brand?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    I’d say TNF is def a fashion brand as there are a few outlets and it’s been a recognised street brand for a while, the Top Boy endorsement and bum bags slung over the chest as if you are selling.

    It’s always been this way, fashion bleeds through from lots of direction and it’s no different from I guess Reebok Pumps, Air Max, Jordan, BK Knights or whatever we wanted in the 80s or 90s.
    What that YouTube of Arcteryx leaning towards fashion is what happened to Berghaus in the late 80s early 90s. Berghaus then produced some really good but expensive kit before changing to cater for the dog walking and shopping brigade.

    It’s been noticeable for years that Arcteryx were going down the fashion route just by looking in their shops in London.





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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    It’s been noticeable for years that Arcteryx were going down the fashion route just by looking in their shops in London.
    If that's where the money is, can you blame them?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny73 View Post
    Don’t know if anyone has tried these with any success but I had an OMM “waterproof” jacket made from eVent which is a gore TRX alternative. Honestly the least waterproof jacket I’ve ever had. It was like an old school tent that if your skin touched it from the inside water came through. I tried tech washing and re proofing all to no avail. Went arc’teryx gore tex in the end.

    (And OMM for those that don’t know run ultra marathons where you carry your own kit so should be no slouch in terms of performance)
    I always thought OMM were top quality. Plus Event has been around for nearly 20 yrs , so no excuse for that performance:(

  22. #72
    if you don't want to look mainstream outdoor (TNF/Berghaus etc) it's called 'gorpcore'
    to kit yourself out fully then the outsiders store caters for your needs, think the only mainstream brand that gets a look in there is Patagonia, the rest are japanese/american/european heritage brands with corresponding prices.

    I shamelessly have made a few purchases but just some gloves and a pair of austrian hut slippers.

    edit: there was a very funy vid on instagram of an irish guy commenting on the 'fade' haircut and TNF puffa jacket look which just about every young adult is wearing.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by wrigles View Post
    I’ve recently ordered Keela Stratus…which will be my first non Goretex waterproof jacket… dual protection tech looks interesting/innovative and also comes highly recommended.. great prices too..

    https://keelaoutdoors.com/product/stratus-sdp-shell/

    https://youtu.be/8RZXxRzBnEY


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    I had a Keela jacket a few years back, Munro I think it was. The dual protection thing was an interesting concept, the main thing that enticed me to try it was the thought if mountain rescue teams are using it, it can't be bad.

    I liked it, build quality was good and it felt just more 'durable' than other hard shells I've had. Breathability wasn't fantastic, but for lower intensity stuff like general outdoors, walk8ng the dog etc I think it'd be fine. Put it this way, I'd quite happily have another one.

    Think I might go and have a look at the Keela website now actually…

  24. #74
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    Goretex Jackets

    I would add montane to the list for goretex

    I have an an earlier version of this

    https://montane.com/collections/mens...erproof-jacket
    Last edited by Middo; 5th December 2022 at 13:01.

  25. #75
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Whenever I hear Gore-tex it reminds me of George.

    Cheers,
    Neil.

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    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    I always thought OMM were top quality. Plus Event has been around for nearly 20 yrs , so no excuse for that performance:(
    My wife has the same jacket with exactly the same issues. Genuinely surprised. The stretchy fabric is great as a windproof running jacket though, very quiet also

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Whenever I hear Gore-tex it reminds me of George.

    Those style jackets are back in, have a look at Rocky Mountain feather bed

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Middo View Post
    Those style jackets are back in, have a look at Rocky Mountain feather bed
    Everything goes around and comes around. Apart from new materials, there are very few new styles.

  29. #79
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    Interesting that all Gore fabrics will be going through a change over the next few years, to become more environmentally friendly.

    Cycling based link, but explains the changes for all.

    https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pfc...roof-garments/

    FWIW. The North Face haven't used Goretex for a few years and now use their own Futurelight material.

    https://www.thenorthface.co.uk/innov...turelight.html

  30. #80
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    Arcteryx Beta SV for just about anything WET in normal temps. I recently did an 8 hour hike at altitude (c. 2,000m) in the clouds and driving rain for 7 hours straight. I was bone dry on the inside after the entire day's hike. I rate the SV > AR model for one simple reason: the SV is longer than the AR, and is more versatile with the additional coverage when layering.

    The Beta has recently come out with a 'Long' version, but note that this is NOT GoretexPro and only uses regular 3L Goretex.

    If you are in sub-zero temps, then I would recommend the Arcteryx Alpha SV. Why? The front mounted pockets are better when precipitation is frozen and you don't need to worry about water ingress through pockets. NB - the Alpha is slightly slimmer cut compared to the Beta.

    NB - Alpha SV is their flagship product and even until last year was made in Canada, not China. The location is not relevant to the overall quality (Gore are very strict on this), but the Canadian cost of manufacturing is quite a bit higher and was where the brand felt it was important to have their flagship product made.

    I have both jackets, and use them regularly and in weather extremes they were designed for. Arcteryx' quality is the best out there.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by spareparts View Post
    Arcteryx Beta SV for just about anything WET in normal temps. I recently did an 8 hour hike at altitude (c. 2,000m) in the clouds and driving rain for 7 hours straight. I was bone dry on the inside after the entire day's hike. I rate the SV > AR model for one simple reason: the SV is longer than the AR, and is more versatile with the additional coverage when layering.

    The Beta has recently come out with a 'Long' version, but note that this is NOT GoretexPro and only uses regular 3L Goretex.

    If you are in sub-zero temps, then I would recommend the Arcteryx Alpha SV. Why? The front mounted pockets are better when precipitation is frozen and you don't need to worry about water ingress through pockets. NB - the Alpha is slightly slimmer cut compared to the Beta.

    NB - Alpha SV is their flagship product and even until last year was made in Canada, not China. The location is not relevant to the overall quality (Gore are very strict on this), but the Canadian cost of manufacturing is quite a bit higher and was where the brand felt it was important to have their flagship product made.

    I have both jackets, and use them regularly and in weather extremes they were designed for. Arcteryx' quality is the best out there.
    My Alpha SV is my go to in cold, snow or wet weather, with an Atom SV (unfortunately no longer made) underneath its great for everything . I bought a couple of Phase SV base layers a good 10 years ago and they are just to warm to wear unless it’s Baltic and never see the light of day.


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  32. #82
    All Goretex fabric is sold by W.L. Gore company.

    So, if Arcteryx are just using fabric which any company can also (and do buy), why is Arcteryx supposedly better than another companies who buy exactly the same fabric?

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    OP stated Goretex.

    Had a few over the years - mostly down to fit/style TBH.

    My current fave is Patagonia, had Rab in the past - very good.
    I thought it was, but seemingly not.

    Looks very similar material, though to the Austrian Army 'Goretex' M65s.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 6th December 2022 at 17:01.
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  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    All Goretex fabric is sold by W.L. Gore company.

    So, if Arcteryx are just using fabric which any company can also (and do buy), why is Arcteryx supposedly better than another companies who buy exactly the same fabric?
    There are many, many different types of Gore Tex, with different face fabrics, membranes, breathability, durability, and so on. Without going in to tedious detail, Arc'teryx buy decent fabrics and stick it together well. So although it may all be generally branded as Gore Tex, an Arc'teryx Alpha SV (3 layer Gore Tex Pro N100d) will have a very different lifespan and finish to a Patagonia Gore Tex Paclite jacket.

    Gore tex alone is not comparing apple with apples.

    If you want a waterproof jacket for Kili, light is right. It'll mostly live in your bag, assuming you're not going in the rainy season. I've climbed Kili 8 times and I've rarely needed to wear my Gore-tex for rain protection (excepting one particularly miserable trip when it rained for all 7 days!).

    I spend my life in the mountains, Guide all over the world, and am on a mountain rescue team. I get cheap or free kit from most manufacturers. I choose to use almost exclusively Arc'teryx, because in my view it works best for my needs, and fits me well. That's not to say I recommend it for dog walking in Blighty, but if you're not watching the pennies and want a decent jacket, they are hard to beat.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdiotAbroad View Post
    There are many, many different types of Gore Tex, with different face fabrics, membranes, breathability, durability, and so on. Without going in to tedious detail, Arc'teryx buy decent fabrics and stick it together well. So although it may all be generally branded as Gore Tex, an Arc'teryx Alpha SV (3 layer Gore Tex Pro N100d) will have a very different lifespan and finish to a Patagonia Gore Tex Paclite jacket.

    Gore tex alone is not comparing apple with apples.

    If you want a waterproof jacket for Kili, light is right. It'll mostly live in your bag, assuming you're not going in the rainy season. I've climbed Kili 8 times and I've rarely needed to wear my Gore-tex for rain protection (excepting one particularly miserable trip when it rained for all 7 days!).

    I spend my life in the mountains, Guide all over the world, and am on a mountain rescue team. I get cheap or free kit from most manufacturers. I choose to use almost exclusively Arc'teryx, because in my view it works best for my needs, and fits me well. That's not to say I recommend it for dog walking in Blighty, but if you're not watching the pennies and want a decent jacket, they are hard to beat.
    Spot on Gore Tex is just a trademarked name which incorporates a multitude of fabric ranges from the company.


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  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    Spot on Gore Tex is just a trademarked name which incorporates a multitude of fabric ranges from the company.


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    Strange then that someone says they must have a 'Goretex' jacket, which could be one of many fabrics, rather than another from a different manufacturer.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Strange then that someone says they must have a 'Goretex' jacket, which could be one of many fabrics, rather than another from a different manufacturer.
    Not really. It's like buying a cotton shirt or merino wool jumper. Not all shirts and jumpers made from the same material will be the same quality.

  38. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    Not really. It's like buying a cotton shirt or merino wool jumper. Not all shirts and jumpers made from the same material will be the same quality.
    But it's not the same material.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    Spot on Gore Tex is just a trademarked name which incorporates a multitude of fabric ranges from the company.
    Goretex refers to the materials technology involved, it's much more than just a trademarked name.
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  40. #90
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    Just for clarification , Arcteryx and Berghaus etc dont stick Gore-tex to their face fabrics. W.LGore laminate either two or three layer systems to stock or order then ship to the garment manufacturers. Before Gore allow one of their fabrics to be used in a garment they review the garment design and ensure all the seam sealing at the garment manufacturer is Gore accredited. From memory all the early version one Pac-Lite garments had to be under X grammes.

    The reason for this is the Gore warranty, people dont say I have a Berghaus/ Sprayway jkt, they say “ I have a Gore-tex jkt” So Gore are backing up the complete garment not just the 3.5 m of fabric in each piece.
    Last edited by higham5; 6th December 2022 at 16:45.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    All Goretex fabric is sold by W.L. Gore company.

    So, if Arcteryx are just using fabric which any company can also (and do buy), why is Arcteryx supposedly better than another companies who buy exactly the same fabric?
    Because some companies have exclusive face fabrics developed with W.L.Gore. They then have exclusivity for a defined time, usually 2 years but depending on the volume, it maybe longer.

    Steve

  42. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    Because some companies have exclusive face fabrics developed with W.L.Gore. They then have exclusivity for a defined time, usually 2 years but depending on the volume, it maybe longer.

    Steve
    Interesting. All the clever stuff is done by W.L.Gore., and they should really get the recognition.

    Arcteryx, Montane, Rab etc. etc. are just garment makers and have minimum impact on the garment weatherproof performance, except for zips and seams.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Interesting. All the clever stuff is done by W.L.Gore., and they should really get the recognition.

    Arcteryx, Montane, Rab etc. etc. are just garment Brands and have minimum impact on the garment weatherproof performance, except for zips and seams.
    Fixed it for you :)

    Gore are a great company to deal with and have some very bright people. When they entered Sunday Times best Company to work for they won it five years on the trot!

    Where else do you get a company where no one has a title, subordinates set their peers salaries at pay review. Lastly at you annual review employees are encouraged to move depts to enhance skills.

    Steve

  44. #94
    How does the common man know what he's buying when he's buying gore Tex then?

    Most expensive is "best"?

    Seems a bit of a minefield

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Interesting. All the clever stuff is done by W.L.Gore., and they should really get the recognition.
    They do. Look at this thread, someone want a Goretex, not an Acteryx or whatever.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowdon View Post
    How does the common man know what he's buying when he's buying gore Tex then?

    Most expensive is "best"?

    Seems a bit of a minefield
    The key thing Snowdon when buying a jacket is where is for and how does it fit. As stated above if you are trekking in the Himalayas or the Alps, you want light weight packable that will go over your down jkt. Also how does it cinch with goggles.

    If you are snowboarding or Skiing and going to subjecting the garment to physical abuse eg abrasion, go heavyweight face fabric, and arguably select “ this years colours”

    If you want a waterproof jacket for walking the dogs, going to the pub , gentle fell walking then go medium weight, subdued colour and a more tailored fit as you probably wont have a down jkt on underneath.

    In all cases look at the manufacturers claims for waterproofness, Gore say “ Guaranteed to keep you dry” a sentence that raises all manner of issues when folk sweat in their garments. Other manufacturers Rab Berghaus etc use different waterproof systems and often state a hydrostaic head or breathability.

    To avoid the minefield, choose a good outdoor shop and ask for advice. Gaynors in the Lake district has “ brand ambassadors “ who come in and talk through garment features. Publications on Outdoor pursuits often list “ top tens” eg this American site
    https://besthiking.net/best-gore-tex-jackets/

    Lastly just like a watch, buy what you like the look of , because its rock hard to wear out good outdoor gear.

    Hope that makes sense.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowdon View Post
    How does the common man know what he's buying when he's buying gore Tex then?

    Most expensive is "best"?

    Seems a bit of a minefield
    Goretex is just the membrane. It used to be a floating layer (available in both 2 layer and 3 layer versions), or more recently it was bonded to a fabric as a laminate (again, available in 2L or 3L versions).

    'Best' = it comes down to what purpose you intend to use the product for. Walking in the city when it's raining will want a lightweight, perhaps longer length, shell (if it is a shell you want). So the 'best' city type jacket uses lighter weight fabrics, and it does not need to be as durable compared to a fabric that is designed to withstand abrasion from rock faces when climbing.

    A bit like Omega making Moonwatches that may only offer 3bar water resistance vs their UltraDeep which offer a bit more... arguably both are the 'best' in their intended design purpose category ;-)

  48. #98
    Thanks for your insights guys

  49. #99
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    Hi op. I have a couple of Bergaus Pac-Lite 2 jackets. They weigh next to nothing and are ideal for layering. I use one of them for cycling. Just got curious and weighed one. Eleven ounces.
    Last edited by johny; 11th December 2022 at 13:53.

  50. #100
    As the Op, I'm coming full circle on this to let you know how I got on, and confirm I wasn't wasting your time with another 'What to Buy' thread.

    I tried tens of Goretex jackets on. What I realised is that the cut is designed for 6 foot athletic men. As a 5'9" bloke with broad shoulders, a wide chest and carrying a couple of extra pounds, I universally found that if anything that fitted me on the arms was way too tight on the chest, and anything that fitted me on the chest had gorilla length arms.

    Plus, I was getting carried away with £300 jacket, when I wouldn't be hiking up Cader Idris in the p1ssing rain, but walking around town in light drizzle, or using it to pitch the tent in summer rain. So, my search continued at a reduced price point.

    Then I stumbled on the TNF sale. I find the brand a bit meh, but for the price and the fact that the reviews said size down, I took a punt. Also used the birthday 20% code to get another 20% if I spent over £100, so bought a half price rucksack and got a further 20% off.

    The jacket cost me £48! It is a small and fits me perfectly. It is dry-vent which I know will not be as good as Goretex, but as long as it has some breathability for walking around town I will be happy. I also wanted the dark olive colour.



    The jacket I really wanted is below, but another jacket which had gorilla length arms. But, I highly recommend the Haglofs having tried it on, and for £95 is a complete steal.


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