Reply With QuoteFrom factory some are good, some not so good. Depends on what you find acceptable with regards to time keeping tolerances. There's always the choice of getting it regulated👍
Hi all
I have been looking at various Seiko watches, all with the 6R35 movement. I have read some very critical reviews of the movement's timekeeping and overall reliability on various places online. What are your thoughts as to this movement?
Thx
From factory some are good, some not so good. Depends on what you find acceptable with regards to time keeping tolerances. There's always the choice of getting it regulated👍
Sums it up nicely.Originally Posted by Toddy
I’ve only had one and it was an excellent timekeeper. More positional variance than other movements I’ve had but with a combination of wearing and placing crown up/down etc at night I could get it within +1spd.
I don’t think there are any reliability issues - it’s a decent quality movement. As stated, there’s no regulation before it leaves the factory so it’s pot luck as to what you end up with, within the movement’s tolerances (-15/+25spd).
I had a sumo with the 6r35. Great watch overall and as I never wore it for long spells the accuracy wasn't much of an issue. However it did have a pretty huge variance, +/-90 seconds or more per day. It wasn't so bad if worn and well wound, I'd learnt it would be within a few seconds per day if left in a certain orientation over night, but if left unworn for a day the accuracy changed and it could be way off.
I've currently got on my wrist my spb081j1 with the 6r15, same movement but less power reserve. It's much much better, far less variance. I've heard that is common but I suspect it's just luck as I understand the 6r35 is a solid movement, it just needs regulating! I believe Seiko movements can be a bit fiddlier than some to regulate, but it shouldn't be hard for a friendly watch guy.
Reliability is not an issue I guess. My understanding is that it is based on the 7s26 workhorse.
I have an SPB147 with the 6R35 and it's very accurate when worn since day one.
Although it had to be left crown up for the night to keep best time. (Dial up position resulted in a few sec gain.)
Interestingly it changed behavior and now it can be left dial up and no gain anymore.
After hearing accuracy issues here and there I guess I was one of the luckiers.
Overall I would say it's not the greatest in positional error.
Therefore (again) it's performing pretty well when worn constantly.
Sent from my XQ-BQ52 using TZ-UK mobile app
I have two Alpinists with 6R35 and I'll be consistent with what others said: pot luck, annoying positional variance, and yet overall good time keepers when worn.
you did ask and if accuracy is your prime concern rather than the look, then better rethink about it
Had 2 62MAS style SPB’s with this movement. Found it to be irregular with its time keeping so decided I would be chasing my tail trying to regulate it. I suspect the longer power reserve might have something to do with it as well, ie the lower or higher the power in the mainspring - the slower or faster it became (or vice versa). Although the idea of taking a watch off on a Friday night and putting it back on on a Monday and it still ruining seemed appealing, when it was 30-40 secs slower than when I left it I felt the cons outweighed the pros.
Shame, as otherwise these were tremendous watches.
I’ve three SPBs and have had others; the timekeeping can be annoying but for around £400-£600 on the second hand market, they are all fantastic watches for the money.
Last edited by Dave+63; 30th November 2022 at 09:52.
That is really helpful, thanks. It is precisely this that I am thinking of and if it effectively needs resetting after the weekend then it seems a bit pointless. Might as well have a movement with a lower reserve and either wind it mid weekend, or reset it on Monday morning.
I’ve had a couple and they were ok. About 10-15s off per day. I tend to change my watches out every 2-3 days max so even if they’re losing 30-45 secs a day, I wouldn’t notice.
I would say that If you want accuracy, don’t get a Seiko, it’s too risky as you can’t be sure what you’re going to get. Just enjoy the watch and don’t let the accuracy bother you.
I guess, as others have said, you can get it ‘tuned up’ if you want.
My SPB183 has settled at +43 spd which is disappointing but at least is regular and I know that I’m reliably misinformed!
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Seikos are frustrating beasts, the movements are rugged and reliable and don't suffer significant wear issues when neglected, but timekeeping from new is a bit hit and miss. This was OK when they were £100 cheapos but as prices have risen so have expectations. I often found the movements to be significantly out of beat, that's down to poor adjustment during manufacture, and the rates could be anything from +30 to -30. Needless to say if the watch is in good health this can be improved by careful regulation, but one fundamental characteristic is poor isochronicity with the rate varying significantly as the amplitude falls, thus the state of wind has a very profound effect on the rate and that makes them difficult to regulate. I use my tried and tested method but that will only give optimum results for an active wearer, this is a problem with the older movements without hand-winding especially if the owner has reached advancing years and isn`t very active.
I've worked on plenty and I've got used to them, but I`ve never started liking them. The order of assembly is counter-intuitive in my opinion and I always have to think when putting the watch together if I haven`t handled one for a while. The absence of a fine regulator makes them an absolute pain to regulate, my wife thinks the brand is actually called f*****g Seiko based on the exclamations emitted from my work room when trying to regulate one! It's v. difficult to alter the rate by a small increment, you end up losing the setting and virtually starting from scratch again. Miyotas are almost as bad. Contrast this with the swan-neck device on the 60s Omegas, turn a tiny screw by a fraction is easy and the rate can be altered to make the watch run 1 or 2 secs/day faster or slower, or an ETA 2824 where one gradation equates to 6 secs.
It's a catch 22 for owners paying a few hundred £££ for new ones, there's a risk of invalidating the warranty if the thing is opened up to regulate, I don`t advise anyone to try if they don't have a timegrapher, there's a good chance of making it worse and going back and forth with the timekeeping. I`ve had a couple in where the owner's wrecked the balance trying to regulate it, they really are a pain.
With regards to isochronism and delta I find the 6R35 to be one of the worst movements Seiko has developed in recent years. I don't accept regulation jobs on these anymore as it's pot luck as to whether they will respond to adjustment and regulation, some do, a lot don't. I believe those that don't are down to escapement and balance production tolerances, the underlying design isn't particularly tolerant of any outlying parameters. In other words having one escapement component at one end of the tolerance scale and another interacting component at the other end and it unduly affects a whole host of other parameters such as the delta and isochronism which simply can't be adjusted or regulated away. A good 6R35 is a decent movement, a bad one is a headache and the problem is there are too many bad ones out there!
No problem.
walkerwek1958 and Thewatchbloke are reinforcing my experience with very interesting (interesting to me!) technical explanations. It’s as I expected, power reserve plays a big part. The “build up
of tolerances” on components makes sense too.
I find that with an automatic movement and screwdown crown I don’t want to be unscrewing the crown every week and resetting the time, it sort of defeats the object for me. And sadly, for that reason “I’m out” when it comes to the otherwise brilliant Seiko SPB line.
I pretty much prefer a handwound watch - it’s much easier to make a quick adjustment to timekeeping each week - especially if it runs fast.
I've got an SPB143 with the 6R35 which I picked up from SC, which had not long come back from Seiko following a service and regulation and yet for whatever reason it was running something like +45s/day. I sent it back to Seiko under the warranty on that previous service and it's now around -6s/day, which is better, within spec, but still a little frustrating.
Seiko had absolutely no problem accepting the watch back, and the warranty was on the watch, not with the owner, which was refreshing not to have to argue the toss over.
As walkerwek1958 said - prices have gone up and so (rightly IMHO) have expectations. Given this watch retails for £1100, I think tighter tolerances and consistency really should be a given.
Blimey. Quite a lot to think about there. To be honest I always assumed that Seiko movements would be bulletproof and this real world experience is very eye opening. I am not sure that the rising prices are justified in light of this at all.
Just like when listening the news…
Mine is running at -5 seconds per day.
I guess that's not bad for this movement?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
That's good, particularly if it's consistent.
I put my 6r15 equipped Seiko on last week, it's about -25s/d but is at least consistent at that UNLESS it's left unworn for a day and the power runs down.... When it will lose another 60-90 seconds.
Provided the amplitude's good and the watch is healthy it would make sense to regulate it to run slightly faster. That's easier said than done, as soon as anyone attempts to move the regulator by the smallest increment it invariably moves too far and the original setting is lost which is v. frustrating. Hence my reference to Seikos as f*****g Seikos, I always end up getting cross with them! If I can get one to run at +6 dial up I`m happy, on the cyclotester they usually run slightly slower, but generally the owner's happy with the results......provided the watch stays in a high state of wind!
I had this movement in a Seiko Sarb a fair few years ago. Initially it was spot on then after a mo th or so it dropped to something like 25 seconds per day. I've experienced similarly terrible timekeeping from Miyota. I can't live with that level of inaccuracy so at the budget end I just go quartz.
I now avoid them at all costs as I think they are crap movements. I had a SARB for years and it always ran poorly, even after a service and regulation.
The few watches I had with the movement had poor timekeeping up to min a day .Friends have had much more accurate ones ,seems to be the luck of the draw
Sent from my Pixel 6 using TZ-UK mobile app
This is one of the things that has always held me back from buying a Seiko even though I always wanted to own one at some point.
However, I finally took the plunge last week with an SPB313 (white dial slim turtle) at 28% off RRP, so £700. I did make sure there was a good return policy before pulling the trigger!
Kept all the stickers etc on for the first three days and didn’t wear it. Fully wound and sat crown up it was 1 second fast after 24 hrs. As the power reserve ran down it went out a bit but after 3 days it was fast by 6 seconds.
Bezel also aligns perfectly so looks like I got lucky. I would have been prepared to do my own QC and give it three attempts but didn’t need to. Love the watch which has replaced a BB58 as my beater/holiday/dive watch. Overall holds up well against the Tudor and I prefer some things about the Seiko (looks and bezel design/action to name two).
Would I prefer it if it wasn’t a lottery? Yes, but there are ways to manage it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Frustrating movement for sure if you value accuracy but remember they are cheap (seiko 5 srpd's etc. ) and that's the price you pay. Large variation in position or winding state. Occasionally you luck out and get a good one which thankfully I have recently which runs at +5 to +12.
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
Thanks for putting my gut feel for the issues into real watch making terms - I have had many and dont bother any longer, just too variable with their performance and your suggestion about manufacturing tolerences makes perfect sense and also puts into perspective Seikos own performance specs for this (and a lot of their movements) which are as wide as the Grand Canyon. Incidentally NH movements seem reasonably OK if still with lots of positional variation and at the cost point that watches sell at using this series Im not so bothered about the variation - it comes with the price.
Keith
Posting Permissions