Hi
Following on from this tread:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...08-engine-help
Where the car had a large amount of issues, it came down to 2 main things:
Coke build up - caused by overly long service intervals and direct injection fuelling
Timing belt break down - which then blocked the oil filter
Peugeot at the time denied anything is wrong with the engine, which was frustrating, all the garages we called said they wont touch them and the engines are pretty much a terrible design.
We ended up just getting rid of the car and taking a fairly large financial hit.
Then yesterday a letter comes from Peugeot about a emergency recall for the engines and guess what... Main issue is the timing belt breaking down, but they have linked this to brake failure which I am not sure how that is even possible, they say the belt breaks down and particles block the filters and clog the engine. I guess this for the oil issue but not for the brakes. There are several YouTube videos of garages showing the issue, the filters get blocked leading to oil pressure issues and oil starvation.
They also recommend servicing and shorter intervals, which will be down to the coke build up.
Just a warning to anyone with the same car (I would get rid) or get the timing belt serviced after 2-3 years.
VW did similar, a friend's Golf 1.4 (MkIV) went from check at 50k replace at 100k to a time limit of replace every 4 years so they must have had problems which they resolved by changing the service interval (so at cost to the customer not them). They originally denied it too until we showed them the service book !
Manufacturers use long service intervals as a sales feature these days, I guess they are coming back to bite them now.
Cheers..
Jase
It is the owner that gets bitten.Originally Posted by JasonM
So is this a recall ? I think my ex wife has one
Ah I see it’s the 1.2 puretech turbo
And engine capacity is down (4 cyl -> 3 cyl) but the output stays the same or is even higher. Cars are getting heavier and are loaded with gimmicks. That sells good in the showroom.
When was the last time you discussed ‘top speed’ with the sales person? The current generation of cars is not lasting 15 or more years. And interstellar mileage is out the window as well.
Then, the ‘rot’ of any company: procurement. Nickle and dime stuff. Always go for the cheapest option. Only to proof to your superior that you’ve ‘saved’ money. Nice one for your annual bonus. And when things fail you blame engineering. (This subject is a pet peeve of my wife, btw).
On top of that: cars have become more complex but not all mechanics have kept up…
Granted: some schools do a great job. Like this one in Sweden. Where students can work on real cars. Not the bunch of wrecks that’s lurking in the corner of a courtyard waiting to be dismantled/mistreated by the next gen students.
Yes this is a school. Not the Porsche workshop.
Last edited by thieuster; 24th March 2023 at 11:48.
I had a 2016 cactus 1.2 turbo and I believe they are the same engines. Citreon had a recall around 2 years ago and about the timing belt clogging things and affecting the braking. I had the timing belt replaced FOC back then. The cost would have been jut over £k I think.
I was amazed at the performance they had wrenched out of these little engines and all with 3 cylinders too...
Last edited by redmonaco; 24th March 2023 at 11:09.
Rubber belts running in oil??? Why??? Save on fuel, looks good on paper and green??? Until it all goes T*** up, then you need another engine. How "green" is that?
https://tracednews.com/peugeot-citro...retech-engine/
Skoda are doing the same with some of their range - not too surprising as they are part of the same group. They have introduced a change at 5 years reccomendation for the 1.5 ACT enginges but the kicker is that some of these require very specialised equipment to set the cam timing as the cam cannot be locked. There's a £3000 set of kit the dealers need & not all of them are bothering to invest. The Skoda pricing for a cambelt change is "from £890" but this doesn't include the particularly difficult engine.
I think that the Last of the Mohicans were the cars of the 90s. Volvo 740 and BMWs of that era being the all-time champ. After that, electronics and 'work-arounds' were the modus operandi.
With my easy access to all you need to maintain a car, I always did my VW Up! after the warranty period had ended. How surprisingly (not...) was the fact that we found out that VW/VAG puts the bare minimum of g'box oil in their cars! Every single Up! is put on the road with the g'box oil at a minimum. In the end it saves them a lot of money. The same goes for the stuff that's in AC's. Again: minimum level! When buying a second hand Up! or perhaps even every VAG car, I would strongly recommend a check of the fluid levels or a stamp in the booklet by the dealer that all has been replaced and refilled.
A lot of European cars have an engine that's basically a PSA engine. Most problems you find in brand A with a PSA motor is the same in brand B's cars.
Yes, the recall is code KGH.
The issues are all emissions, they are trying to make smaller engines get lower emissions for tax / eco reasons, and at the same time trying to boost performance with turbos, but they are greatly affecting the long term sustainability of their cars. I would not touch a direct injection car ever again, having these issues and talking to garages they seem like they are all a ticking time bomb.
Take the Honda civic for example, looks a great little car, nice small economical engine, that needs servicing every 6k-7k miles! I get a super car needs a service that often but not a small family car, and for me this just screams issues with the engine, which again is a direct injection.
I got the wife a CX-30, 2L lump, no turbo or anything fancy, and tbh its an amazing car, drives so nice and should last forever. Looks great aswell.
Last edited by NikGixer750; 24th March 2023 at 12:13.
Yes, its madness.
I had a 15 plate golf TSI that had done 80000 miles that according to VW had a lifetime cambelt but my local VW dealer said don't leave it longer than 100000 miles they have seen them fail and VW will not pick up the bill and because they aren't ment to be changed they are very arkward need special tools and costs a fortune costs a fortune ,I've never touched VW since and to think I had a MK2:GTi that wa s simple fast and reliable
My experiences over a number of vehicles echo this too. I very much doubt that cars being manufactured today will last as long as those.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
As said, I've owned a VW Up. I really would like to replace it with an Up GTi. An instant classic.But the simple reason that this 1.0 liter, 3 cyl engine is poked from 65 to 115 hp makes me shiver. I cannot get my head around 90% power increase without problems! And some people tune that engine to 145 hp. Madness!
An interesting move, backed by one of the mechanics of the workshop where I spend a lot of time. He's been looking for a car for his son. He has narrowed it down to "... a Mazda, they don't follow that trend of a coffee grinder engine in a car!"I got the wife a CX-30, 2L lump, no turbo or anything fancy, and tbh its an amazing car, drives so nice and should last forever. Looks great aswell.
If you think 145 bhp from a 1 litre engine is madness, you really don’t want to be looking a bike engines. 200+ bhp from a non turbo 1l is the norm and Kawasakis supercharged H2 engines are up to 330 bhp.
i did a re-check on the website of a well-known VAG tuner. And yes: 145 hp. And still they are sure that it will function. But they do not tell you if it will hold after 50, 60 or 70k miles.
I think the point Dave was making is that the bikes with engines boosted to twice as much power hold their mileage well despite being used by people that will not be shy in revving them.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Peugeot engines less so.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
This specific engine you undoubtedly have a point. Yet in France Peugeot are known for the spectacular mileage their traditional engines could achieve. In petrol or diesel.
Please note my use of past tense as I have no idea if it still applies on (other) modern engines.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 24th March 2023 at 22:42.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Based on the comments and experiences of an old school mechanic friend of mine that works in an independent garage near me. I wouldn’t buy any French or any German car, and certainly no LR products.
So Japanese it is then.
The older stuff was epic for sure.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
From someone who has had a Toyota engine fail before 60,000 miles I wouldn’t even trust Japanese.
Long service intervals and Reginald Molehusband type driving kills cars as much as thrashing them.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Another engine that fails breaking camshafts through poor design is the Ford Peugeot Lion V6 diesel the very one JLR use
Crankshaft actually, but you are absolutely correct, generally terminal for the engine when it lets go.
Vauxhall use the same 1.2ltr 3 cylinder lump in their cars and have changed the specification of the oil they put in at service, presumably to mitigate the degradation of the belt as it runs in it.
Shells really, the crank is sound other than sharing of oil paths
Is that just for the earlier 2.7ltr engines with the shells rotating and closing the oilways? Didn't they tab them in later engines to prevent this? I know the 3.0ltr even in the D5 still snaps cranks in two.
My mistake I meant Crankshaft
The 2.7 early problems were that the oil pump castings broke.
As Hilly said the 2.7 were ok but suffered from the oil pump casting breaking but this was normally after a timing belt replacement where a new bolt was fitted to the idler…they didnt just break.
The earlier 3.0ltrs broke the cranks because they were made of chocolate, the later ones break for different reasons. In a nutshells yeh shells spinning but its the design of the lubrication system that starts the process from new. Add that to poor oil film, poor oil quality and the sharing of oil ways makes for an engineering nightmare. Im in contact with a guy who was on the original 2.7 lion team who now runs a very busy business rebuilding these things day in day out and for the most its normally always the same problem.
Oval Autos? Heard good things about them.
No JPSK Motors LTD, check them out on FB. Phils a good guy.
An ex workmate had an avensis engine fail outside of warranty (burning lots of oil) but due to it having a full Toyota service history it was replaced free of charge.
Thanks for that. will have a look.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
