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Thread: Help identifying Omega model ref. please?

  1. #1
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Help identifying Omega model ref. please?

    A friend of mine has been offered this watch and has asked me to advise him of how much he should be paying, but I can’t tie down the model ref. and/or whether it is correct in terms of the dial?






    It looks like a Seamaster 120 (166.088) to me, but I cannot find a picture of one that doesn’t show the depth rating on the dial beneath the Seamaster script.

    Can someone please clarify whether it is a 120, and whether they were ever produced without the 120 on the dial please?

    Thanks
    Last edited by hhhh; 28th November 2022 at 17:30.

  2. #2
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Btw, please try to avert your eyes from the horrific watch/strap combo. Possibly the worst I’ve ever seen…and it can’t now be unseen

  3. #3
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Is it not a 120 with reprinted dial?

    No T Swiss T
    And the Seamaster text does not look quite right
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 28th November 2022 at 18:09.

  4. #4
    Grand Master
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    Regardless of whether the dial is correct I can`t see much appeal. The bezel is in poor condition, the case is battered, the caseback is battered, the date wheel appears to not line up correctly (could be the camera angle). Give me one good reason for buying it?

    If he really wants a watch like this he'd be well advised to buy a really good example. If the outside's in poor condition I wouldn't expect the movement to be good either.

    As one who knows a fair bit about these movements I can assure you they can be expensive to rebuild if certain parts are worn. The mainspring barrel, reverser, and rotor bearing are the expensive culprits. Have a look on eBay at the prices for a 550-1464, 550-1429 and 550-1200 and you'll see what I mean. I still hold a reasonable stash of these and other parts but I`ve reached the stage where I`m not replenishing my stocks owing to price/availability. Even second hand parts in questionable condition are starting to fetch money.

    If the watch was cosmetically better it may be worth considering. I have my doubts about that dial, I`ve not seen blue one and I`ve not seen one that lacks the '120' notation.

    Even in good condition I struggle to see much appeal with this model, I`d class it as 'divers style' rather than a watch with true dive credentials.

    Edit: Just had another look, the dial is definitely rotated slightly and that's why the date wheel doesn`t line up. That's telling me that the dial feet are broken and the dial's been stuck on..........run for the hills on this watch!
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 28th November 2022 at 18:41.

  5. #5
    The folk at Omega Forums would be able to tell you quickly and accurately

  6. #6
    Grand Master
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    I'm pretty sure we already have - the second hand is a giveaway as it was brought in with the Dynamics and infected everything in the late sixties/early seventies. it's a cheap redial, and the ten series movement is a bit of a step down from the 565 in the 'Admiralty' it replaced, but it's still a decent watch at the right price.

  7. #7
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/sea...56349.htm#gref

    It was one of these once upon a time.

  8. #8
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, very helpful.

    To be clear, is the consensus that Omega service dials did away with the depth rating (presumably to make them useable on several different references), and that the redial is therefore ‘genuine’.

    Or, is the lack of a depth rating marked on the dial, proof that the redial is a fake?

  9. #9
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    I refuse to use the term ‘redial’, it’s ambiguous, redial is something you do with a phone!

    I think the dial is refinished, its reasonable but the absence of the 120 notation makes it wrong. The reason this was left off is probably because the refinisher couldn't print it so it was omitted. Not convinced the movement’s a 10 series, haven’t done any homework, but it matters little, the dial’s wrong and the the misalignment suggests its got broken dial feet. Something’s not right, and considering the poor condition I would only buy this watch for parts.

    As for the blue seconds hand, this style was used extensively by Omega in the late 60s/ early 70s and I quite like it, either blue or orange were commonplace on Dynamics, some Geneves, and Chronostops.

    I definitely would not buy this watch, even if it was offered to me cheaply as a fixer upper I can’t see a viable way forward to produce a good example. As I said earlier, run for the hills and look for a better one, can’t see any upside on this one no matter how cheap it might be.

    Edit: Looks like the movement is a cal 1000 series, that makes it even less desirable in my opinion! Always thought these used the 565......every day’s a schoolday.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 28th November 2022 at 22:59.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    Thanks guys, very helpful.

    To be clear, is the consensus that Omega service dials did away with the depth rating (presumably to make them useable on several different references), and that the redial is therefore ‘genuine’.

    Or, is the lack of a depth rating marked on the dial, proof that the redial is a fake?
    It's not a service dial, that is a repainted dial, AKA redial. That is to say, repainted by a third party. You can tell from the Omega text, it is not as crisp as it should be.

  11. #11
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    One thing it does have in its favour is the bezel and insert.
    Perfect if you were looking for an original replacement. That’s probably the best bit though.

  12. #12
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Thanks again gents. I’ll pass on all the info and he can make his own mind up.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I refuse to use the term ‘redial’, it’s ambiguous, redial is something you do with a phone!

    I think the dial is refinished, its reasonable but the absence of the 120 notation makes it wrong. The reason this was left off is probably because the refinisher couldn't print it so it was omitted. Not convinced the movement’s a 10 series, haven’t done any homework, but it matters little, the dial’s wrong and the the misalignment suggests its got broken dial feet. Something’s not right, and considering the poor condition I would only buy this watch for parts.

    As for the blue seconds hand, this style was used extensively by Omega in the late 60s/ early 70s and I quite like it, either blue or orange were commonplace on Dynamics, some Geneves, and Chronostops.

    I definitely would not buy this watch, even if it was offered to me cheaply as a fixer upper I can’t see a viable way forward to produce a good example. As I said earlier, run for the hills and look for a better one, can’t see any upside on this one no matter how cheap it might be.

    Edit: Looks like the movement is a cal 1000 series, that makes it even less desirable in my opinion! Always thought these used the 565......every day’s a schoolday.
    Good point, 'redial' is a daft way of putting it. Thanks for the correction. However, the dial looks straight to me - it's the bezel that has rotated and that's what they are meant to do! I'd buy it, but I'd buy anything.
    Last edited by M4tt; 29th November 2022 at 11:13.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Good point, 'redial' is a daft way of putting it. Thanks for the correction. However, the dial looks straight to me - it's the bezel that has rotated and that's what they are meant to do! I'd buy it, but I'd buy anything.
    You may be right regarding the dial, the date wheel could be sticking slightly and the dial OK. The term 'redial' is one of my pet hates and I blame the internet for introducing it into everyday watch parlance. I don`t fully understand the dial refinishing process, it's a bit of a dark art IMO, I recall having conversations with guys at David R Bill (who I used to deal with) regarding what could and couldn't be done and I never fully understood. Suffice to say that a refinisher can replicate some stuff perfectly, some stuff fairly well, some stuff not so well and some stuff not at all! I think the market has become far more discerning/critical regarding refinished dials, whether that's good or bad is open to debate and I think well-refinished dials are unfairly dismissed in general. The purists will always favour originality and I agree with this, I buy very few vintage watches thesedays for restoration and I won't buy anything with a scruffy dial, in the past I wouldn't hesitate to get a dial refinished if it let the watch down but now I don`t, I simply don't buy the watch.

  15. #15
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    A few years ago elsewhere, there was a semi regular competition to get the best watch possible for twenty quid. Obviously that's my sort of competition and on one occasion there was quite a pretty watch that was absolutely screwed in every way, including the dial - I refinished it in some nail polish my partner didn't like:



    Oddly I can't find the finished product but here's something close to it:



    I know, a complete waste of time, but I'm still being amused by it. In the end I didn't even use it as I picked up a genuine FS which I used.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    It's not a service dial, that is a repainted dial, AKA redial. That is to say, repainted by a third party. You can tell from the Omega text, it is not as crisp as it should be.
    Padders knows his stuff when it comes to Omegas so if he says it's that then it's that.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    No doubt it would end up as being a rather expensive service but might it be worth asking STS if they have a spare dial?
    Die Zeit verwandelt uns nicht, sie entfaltet uns nur.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Padders knows his stuff when it comes to Omegas so if he says it's that then it's that.
    More generally there's a complete disparity between the condition of the indices, date shroud and the paint. The dial is original and probably looked rather tired so it's been redone. Badly. Generally when the dial starts to look like that the movement inside may not look so clever either.

  19. #19
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    Dials get refinished when they've deteriorated badly, invariably that's caused by water ingress. The rubber used for caseback and crown seals in the 60s has a tendency to degrade to a sticky tar-like mess which isn`t good at keeping water out so its hardly surprising that a lot of Omegas from this era are in poor condition. Water in the movement isn`t good news but it's surprising how robust the movements can be, I`ve just restored a C cased Constellation that was a horror story, water had got in and the watch had been stored for years but miraculously the dial, hands and date wheel were unmarked! The mainplate and bridges were all re-usable after a clean-up, I was surprised how few parts actually needed replacing. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not, that's why it helps to handle a watch and look inside before buying. The Constellation was offered to me by a friend from a house clearance, it almost got thrown away!

    Someone like STS may be able to source a service replacement dial for this watch, but that creates a new problem: a new dial doesn`t really work in an aged case with a heavily aged bezel, the dial needs to show some signs of age to blend in. That's one of the hardest aspects of restoring old watches, everything has to look consistent. If parts were available the easiest route is to refinish the case, refinish or replace the bezel, dial and handset, fit a new crystal and crown and you've got a watch that looks virtually new. The only folks who can do that with this watch are Omega Service Centre or possibly an accredited Omega repairer. Cost would be 'considerable' and that's why I don`t think this watch is one to buy.

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