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Thread: I'm imagining the distress this fish ws subjected to

  1. #1
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    I'm imagining the distress this fish ws subjected to

    https://news.sky.com/story/british-a...rance-12752903

    I'm imagining the distress this fish was subjected to – especially whilst its body was not fully supported by water.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    https://news.sky.com/story/british-a...rance-12752903

    I'm imagining the distress this fish was subjected to – especially whilst its body was not fully supported by water.
    Probably treated better than the fish we eat.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Probably treated better than the fish we eat.
    Especially in Japan, where they don't always bother to kill them first.

  4. #4
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    https://news.sky.com/story/british-a...rance-12752903

    I'm imagining the distress this fish was subjected to – especially whilst its body was not fully supported by water.
    Another (so called) sport/hobby well past it's sell by day.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  5. #5
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Another (so called) sport/hobby well past it's sell by day.
    Thousands of carp fishermen are obsessed with their pastime and can spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds to obtain similar photos ... thus proving their OCDs
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  6. #6
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Probably treated better than the fish we eat.
    The fish we eat to further recycle manmade plastics waste consumed by marine life.

    Marine life is 'treated' abominably by mankind
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post

    Marine life is 'treated' abominably by mankind
    Mankind is treated abominably by mankind!

  8. #8
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    There are far worse things to get emotional about IMO. The fish has been caught a few times and seems to be doing OK.

    Can't say the same for the people killed by floods in Pakistan or discovered in mass graves in Ukraine.

    Perspective!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    https://news.sky.com/story/british-a...rance-12752903

    I'm imagining the distress this fish was subjected to – especially whilst its body was not fully supported by water.
    Jesus wept, with everything going on in the world, really...

  10. #10
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    Jesus wept, with everything going on in the world, really...
    ...yes ... including potential extinction of species which have evolved over millions of years ... Have you not kept up to date ref how mankind is hastening the demise of both fauna and flora?
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    ...yes ... including potential extinction of species which have evolved over millions of years ... Have you not kept up to date ref how mankind is hastening the demise of both fauna and flora?
    Sigh, get a grip...

  12. #12
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    Sigh, get a grip...
    Is that the best response you can think of ... SIGH indeed !!
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  13. #13
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    ...yes ... including potential extinction of species which have evolved over millions of years ... Have you not kept up to date ref how mankind is hastening the demise of both fauna and flora?
    Thankfully there are plenty of goldfish about.
    Whilst I understand where you are coming from, I find it hard to worry about a carp that was caught by a fisherman and put back, although I do share a concern for the natural world and the damage we are doing

    As a crime against nature, it’s a non event.
    Last edited by Sinnlover; 22nd November 2022 at 16:48.

  14. #14
    This fish wouldn't exist if it wasn't for anglers.

    Our rivers only function because anglers spend time cleaning them and campaigning for their wellbeing.

    Ban angling and the quality of our watercourses will rapidly deteriorate.

    The Wandle was rescued by fisherman, me included, who pulled tonnes of crap out of the river and worked with local schools to reintroduce trout. Without anglers it would still be a swamp.

  15. #15
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    This fish wouldn't exist if it wasn't for anglers.

    Our rivers only function because anglers spend time cleaning them and campaigning for their wellbeing.

    Ban angling and the quality of our watercourses will rapidly deteriorate.

    The Wandle was rescued by fisherman, me included, who pulled tonnes of crap out of the river and worked with local schools to reintroduce trout. Without anglers it would still be a swamp.
    Anglers (who frequently mistreat and kill fish by use of barbed hooks and keep nets and pollute the sea and rivers with broken line) are not the only people who value marine life and marine environments.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Anglers (who frequently mistreat and kill fish by use of barbed hooks and keep nets and pollute the sea and rivers with broken line) are not the only people who value marine life and marine environments.
    You sad misguided person...

  17. #17
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    ...yes ... including potential extinction of species which have evolved over millions of years ... Have you not kept up to date ref how mankind is hastening the demise of both fauna and flora?
    We're ALL just passing through here. It's a cyclic thing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Anglers (who frequently mistreat and kill fish by use of barbed hooks and keep nets and pollute the sea and rivers with broken line) are not the only people who value marine life and marine environments.
    Sure, Anglers are the only ones who care. But none of the others are stepping up and cleaning out rivers.

    Every angling club has working parties or pays for maintenance. Worth that would otherwise not be done.

    I understand and that angling isn't a perfect sport. However, the good done by anglers far outweighs the bad.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    You sad misguided person...
    Fascinating response...
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Fascinating response...
    Thank you.

  21. #21
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Fascinating response...
    Yes, agreed. Dunk, you’re not in a minority of one, I can assure you.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, agreed. Dunk, you’re not in a minority of one, I can assure you.
    And we're off and running...

  23. #23
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime...maybe you or yours will, sometime in the future, rely on people with hunting and fishing skills

  24. #24
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    You sad misguided person...
    Another clichéd reply.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  25. #25
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime...maybe you or yours will, sometime in the future, rely on people with hunting and fishing skills
    That's another clichéd reply.

    Might surprise you to know I fish for my supper i.e. sea fish for sea bass and cod.

    However, I have no need to pose for photos with helpless coarse fish as in #1 above.
    Last edited by sundial; 22nd November 2022 at 18:27.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  26. #26
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Wait until Wolf finds this thread……………….

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Thousands of carp fishermen are obsessed with their pastime and can spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds to obtain similar photos ... thus proving their OCDs
    And thousands of people are obsessed with their pastime and can spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds to obtain photos.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    That's another clichéd reply.

    Might surprise you to know I fish for my supper i.e. sea fish for sea bass and cod.

    However, I have no need to pose for photos with helpless coarse fish as in #1 above.
    I'll have chips with my cod, please.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime...
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

    Yes, nicked from TP
    Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH

  30. #30
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    And thousands of people are obsessed with their pastime and can spend hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds to obtain photos.
    Hmmm... Mandy Rice-Davies' famous but clichéd comment comes to mind.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  31. #31
    The carp won't have been unsupported by water for very long. Why do you suppose the angler is in the water?

    Most carp in lakes that are fished, thrive in large part because of the anglers.

    Barbed hooks are banned in my Angling Society apart from the smallest hook sizes & I believe this is the case for most.

    Sea fish that are caught for us to eat suffocate out of the water in huge numbers crushed by others in the trawlers. I imagine that's a bit more stressful than coarse being caught & returned by an angler, but that doesn't stop me (or millions of others) enjoying sea fish.
    Last edited by andy tims; 22nd November 2022 at 18:55.
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  32. #32
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    The carp won't have been unsupported by water for very long. Why do you suppose the angler is in the water?

    Most carp in lakes that are fished, thrive in large part because of the anglers.

    Barbed hooks are banned in my Angling Society apart from the smallest hook sizes & I believe this is the case for most.
    So if someone pushed your head under water for say 35 seconds it would not do you any harm
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  33. #33
    As an ex course fisherman i can honesty say that the fish would have been out of the water only a brief time, it would hardly have been the first time it would have been caught and it appears to be in good health. Most course fisherman I've known over the years have always treated this fish they have caught with respect and try and keep the fish out the water a small time.

  34. #34
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    So if someone pushed your head under water for say 35 seconds it would not do you any harm
    Would I still be able to hear you?

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    So if someone pushed your head under water for say 35 seconds it would not do you any harm
    No. I can hold my breath longer than that, but so what?

    Interesting that you only quoted part of my post. Cruelty to sea fish caught for food is OK then?
    Andy

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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    As an ex course fisherman i can honesty say that the fish would have been out of the water only a brief time, it would hardly have been the first time it would have been caught and it appears to be in good health. Most course fisherman I've known over the years have always treated this fish they have caught with respect and try and keep the fish out the water a small time.
    Of coarse.

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Of coarse.
    Of course

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    No. I can hold my breath longer than that, but so what?

    Interesting that you only quoted part of my post. Cruelty to sea fish caught for food is OK then?
    Unless they’re dispatched straight off the line and top jawed id assume it would be left flapping under the seat….yes strange indeed.
    Also did quite a lot of sea and beach fishing and lost many a line…guess the OP has never done that?

  39. #39
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    The fish will have forgotten all about it three seconds after it’s released


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  40. #40
    Are all coarse anglers perfect? No, there are those that leave tangled line on the banks where birds might get caught up in it & leave litter, but the vast majority take care with the fish they catch & return them to the water as quickly as they can. The vast majority also care about nature & the environment & as has already been said, have done much to clean up the waterways.

    Are coarse fish distressed when they are caught? They possibly are for a short time, but to what extent - who knows? I doubt most suffer any long term harm, as fish are regularly re-caught having thrived between catches.
    Andy

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  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Whoosh!
    No not at all.

  42. #42
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    The average fish, including goldfish, have a proven 90 day memory. The red brick white brick feeding experiments prove that. You can do it your self if you have an aquarium. It’s a totally humane experiment before anyone gets excited.

    I used to love angling as a kid. My dad used to take me. I haven’t been for over 30 years, if I was to catch fish now it would be for trout in my river at the end of my garden, I would only catch one at a time and it wouldn’t go back into the river! I don’t generally eat fish however because I object to the way we catch them to extinction and ruin the sea beds. Bit of a contradiction really but that’s how it is.

  43. #43
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    I'm pretty sure the memory thing is a red herring (oops) What is true is that fish exhibit the 'dorsal centring response' which many theorists think is a precursor to the sort of sentience that we enjoy. While it's pretty clear these days that localised pain occurs in pretty well everything with a complex nervous system, simply because the endocrine mechanisms for managing pain are present in many insects, the problem is binding.

    In us, for example, it's pretty clear that there's a smear of attention, or memory that allows sensations to be unified so that everything appears to happen in a unified way. Fish don't have that, or rather they have incredibly short bursts of that, usually triggered by things like lateral symmetry (as in something's looking at me) Which is why, in us, church steeples stand out so much and soldiers try hard to break up that symmetry. What they also don't have is any form of narrative and thus conception of past present or future. So what you have in a fish is a nervous system that is mostly non conscious process with occasional burst of it all coming together which I doubt are enough to unify much of a sense of self, a thing that pain happens to, so pain happens in fish, but less to a fish.

    So there's not much value on imagining what it's like to be a fish like you because they are not. Theory aside, there's a fairly definitive treatment of these sorts of issues here:

    https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/.../nagel_bat.pdf

    But the bottom line is that unless a fish is engaged in the sort of behaviour we would associate with being shocked and in pain, it's probably not feeling much and when it does feel something then it's so far away from what we know that it's hard to say much about it beyond the precautionary principle that we should act as if it does because it's better safe than sorry.

  44. #44
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    I am horrified what we do to carrots - pull them out of the ground, chop them into pieces, put them in boiling water and then eat them. Everyone knows that vegetables scream 
    "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so”. HHGTTG

  45. #45
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    Why i quit carp fishing way back in 1978; please consider reading #2:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...highlight=Carp
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Why i quit carp fishing way back in 1978; please consider reading #2:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...highlight=Carp
    How do you kill the fish when you go out sea fishing?

    What do you do when you get a line break…go home and plant a tree to compensate for it?

  47. #47
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I am horrified what we do to carrots - pull them out of the ground, chop them into pieces, put them in boiling water and then eat them. Everyone knows that vegetables scream 
    Seriously, Martyn? Come on...

  48. #48
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    There's a pretty little reservoir up the road from me - I asked an angler why the rules and guidance were in English and Polish?

    "The poles use barbed hooks, and don't return any fish - they eat them all !"

    At least when there are no fish left - the Poles can maintain the moral high ground.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundial View Post
    Anglers (who frequently mistreat and kill fish by use of barbed hooks and keep nets and pollute the sea and rivers with broken line) are not the only people who value marine life and marine environments.
    But you have just accepted they value marine life and marine environments.

    In spite of all the arguments and pettiness on this forum I’ve never said this before. But, really get a grip!

  50. #50
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    Such a naive comment to make from the author - TRUST me the serious anglers treat the fish with the upmost respect and there are very strict rules on handling of fish at such venues - they are highly sought after and the owner of the complex will lose there lively hood very quickly if they allowed fools to fish such places with no knowledge of how to fish safely - things like dip tanks, weigh slings, carp cradles, tripods, fish over 30lb to be photographed in the water, carp care kits, call the bailiff for any fish over 40lb, no sacks etc etc are all common rules place at most venues and I genuinely think the author here isnt educated on such matters -

    Carp fishing is akin to golf and people spend serious money to fish such places and the equipment costs thousands and trust me I know so rest assured people are VERY serious about the sport - rod licence fees go back into our water ways and to give you some clarity otters are a much bigger threat to fish than anglers that and the poachers who have a different mentality to the anglers who I know - some who are very famous and in the public eye promoting the sport and members on my syndicate and love the tranquility and escapism as much as anything else

    I love angling and fish for all species - belong to a couple of exclusive syndicates travel to europe annually and really enjoy my carp fishing - one of the best things is seeing a fish you have caught get caught years later by someone else and seeing the joy it brings them, incidentally angling is one of the most participated sports in the world and add to that the benefits for mental health in being outdoors there are huge benefits to the sport oh and by the way its called fishing and not catching for a reason - so many other benefits than just a trophy shot for the album
    Last edited by R0bertb00th; 23rd November 2022 at 10:18.

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