Am I alone in thinking

[redmonaco]

I mean, where do you start with this? The fact that you seem to believe that’s possible beggars belief



My word, I’ve heard some nonsense in my life

It’s seems the bearpit has just switched across to the G&D

Doesn’t it just become entirely tedious trying to communicate with morons?

I could send you pics if you like. Don't talk about things you know nothing about...

[redmonaco]

Take this provocative nonsense elsewhere (please).

You have been here long enough to know the score.

Except it's not nonsense. And how could you possibly think you would know???

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Except it's not nonsense. And how could you possibly think you would know???

You know exactly what I am saying - wrong part of the forum for the discussion you started.

Pi$$ing and moaning about what you have heard about a 'friend of a friend' has done/proposes to do is nonsensical - even if you believe it to be true.

[Griswold]

Not necessarily. I know of a relative of a friend who hasn't worked for years. They spent £6k on garden furniture this year and will certainly be spending more in Christmas presents than I will. All courtesy of our generous state...and not a daily mail in sight...

There's always the exception that proves the rule, just ask the MSM - they seem to find them quite easily. Meanwhile, pop down to your local food bank, there are rather a lot of them around right now, and talk to the people who are forced to use them. Maybe ask them why....

[Wolfie]

None of your multiple choice answers work for me I'm afraid.

Kettle paging pot. Kettle paging pot.

Well one of them has to be true? & Whatevs sweet cheeks x

[Wolfie]

I could send you pics if you like. Don't talk about things you know nothing about...

Kinky x

[Wolfie]

And on a serious note, there’s a poster or two who clearly have no concept of what real poverty is about, even in the 6th wealthiest nation on the planet

Pretending that the truly impoverished are blowing cash on X Y Z shows a deep seated ignorance of how people really struggle…. I’d recommend they have a chat with the average kid/ parent at the inner city school my wife works at…. It may be eye opening

[MacDeath]

And on a serious note, there’s a poster or two who clearly have no concept of what real poverty is about, even in the 6th wealthiest nation on the planet

Pretending that the truly impoverished are blowing cash on X Y Z shows a deep seated ignorance of how people really struggle…. I’d recommend they have a chat with the average kid/ parent at the inner city school my wife works at…. It may be eye opening

Ah, the my wife's a teacher line lol. We've already had nurses etc thrown in.

I am fully aware of poverty, so let's use the retail assistant line. People are motivated to buy from advertising. Shops sell goods, retail workers retain their jobs, as do the warehouse staff, manufacturers (yes some is overseas), delivery drivers, etc, etc, etc All we do by reducing sales (ban advertising) is shift the poverty, or increase it.

Remember what the post is about. Advertising. My own point was in opposition to this and maybe the add lib was insensitive, but it's the G&D, a pub, where there'll be plenty of folks spending their benefits on Carling instead of bread and milk. Oops, I did it again!

[MartynJC (UK)]

That, under the present circumstances, many of these Christmas adverts showing large parties, big dinners and gifts may be a little insensitive. After all, there will be many thousands (millions?) of families that won't be able to afford Christmas this year.

Going back to the original point - there have always been millions starving at Christmas and all times of the year. Now it’s closer to home perhaps we should think of those a lot worse off.

TBH. I haven’t seen these adverts (or any TV adverts) for a year now - and don’t miss them one bit.

[Wolfie]

Ah, the my wife's a teacher line lol. We've already had nurses etc thrown in.

I am fully aware of poverty, so let's use the retail assistant line. People are motivated to buy from advertising. Shops sell goods, retail workers retain their jobs. All we do by reducing sales (ban advertising) is shift the poverty, or increase it.

Remember what the post is about. Advertising. My own point was in opposition to this and maybe the add lib was insensitive, but it's the G&D, a pub, where there'll be plenty of folks spending their benefits on Carling instead of bread and milk. Oops, I did it again 😂

You’re fully aware of poverty? Your posts suggest otherwise

My wife is a teacher and I hear some really tough stories…. For every freeloader there many more families making choices you and I have probably never had to face…. Making light of it, isn’t funny…. Asserting that the exception is the rule isn’t helpful…. It’s crass and shows a lack of compassion…

I don’t believe I responded to the OP, but yes, I understand his point….

[Wolfie]

Going back to the original point - there have always been millions starving at Christmas and all times of the year. Now it’s closer to home perhaps we should think of those a lot worse off.

TBH. I haven’t seen these adverts (or any TV adverts) for a year now - and don’t miss them one bit.

Foreign aid has just been cut too…. Anyway, straying into politics

[MacDeath]

You’re fully aware of poverty? Your posts suggest otherwise

My wife is a teacher and I hear some really tough stories…. For every freeloader there many more families making choices you and I have probably never had to face…. Making light of it, isn’t funny…. Asserting that the exception is the rule isn’t helpful…. It’s crass and shows a lack of compassion…

I don’t believe I responded to the OP, but yes, I understand his point….

It's the G&D. It's a pub. Having fun is allowed.

People joke about all sorts of things which are inherently distasteful and yes poverty is a real problem, but the amount of freeloaders doesn't alleviate the situation and I'm sorry, it is, amongst many things, a cause of poverty on the whole.

I will need to make choices, but one mans poverty is another's wealthy.

Enough said. Last orders has been called and I'm out of here.

[ryanb741]

My wife is Thai and it is tradition that on birthdays a gift is provided that comprises of money given to charity, usually hand delivered to the charity with the offer of assistance for that day. Sometimes it is a village temple that gets the donation instead.

Not a bad idea to replicate here. Maybe instead of yet another sweater maybe money given to a food bank with an offer of volunteer help given for a day

[ralphy]

Aren’t benefits increasing in line with inflation? Relatively they’ll be better off than last year.

They're given an increase, but that increase is eaten up by the rising cost of living so how can they be better off?

R

[Ruggertech]

They're given an increase, but that increase is eaten up by the rising cost of living so how can they be better off?

R

They won't, at the very best they can only tread water. Bear in mind also the approximately 11% inflation we are seeing now is an average of everything, but food inflation is about 16% which they obviously cannot avoid. This will be a disproportionately high hit for people on low incomes or benefits.

[ralphy]

For sure, but NO presents?

Maybe that picture is only in my head.................

I used to get to choose a 'main' present and my choice was invariably a Waddingtons board game, plus a comic annual. Also I'd get a present from a rather 'dotty' auntie which was one of those chocolate bar selections inside a netted sock - which continued to arrive well into my late teens...
Decoration-wise it was the same artificial tree that was trotted out each year, paper chains stung from each corner of the ceiling and a couple of paper decorations that folded out into a bell shape: pretty much the same in all the other houses in our road.

R

[ralphy]

They won't, at the very best they can only tread water. Bear in mind also the approximately 11% inflation we are seeing now is an average of everything, but food inflation is about 16% which they obviously cannot avoid. This will be a disproportionately high hit for people on low incomes or benefits.

Added to which is that the April increase for benefits was below the inflation rate at that time (IIRC) so those in receipt were already behind the game since then.

R

[oldoakknives]

I used to get to choose a 'main' present and my choice was invariably a Waddingtons board game, plus a comic annual. Also I'd get a present from a rather 'dotty' auntie which was one of those chocolate bar selections inside a netted sock - which continued to arrive well into my late teens...
Decoration-wise it was the same artificial tree that was trotted out each year, paper chains stung from each corner of the ceiling and a couple of paper decorations that folded out into a bell shape: pretty much the same in all the other houses in our road.

R

Probably much the same for most people in those days. Certainly was for most kids I knew. (eeeh luxury etc)

[Rodder]

They're given an increase, but that increase is eaten up by the rising cost of living so how can they be better off?

R

So as you note they are in the same position. Yet those who don’t receive an increase are worse off. Hence they are relatively better off than almost everyone else.

As previously noted I feel for teachers, nurses et al. And as someone pointed out I’ll certainly also include retail workers and delivery drivers etc. but I’d imagine some of them are on universal credit which will go up with inflation

[brigant]

I mean, where do you start with this? The fact that you seem to believe that’s possible beggars belief



My word, I’ve heard some nonsense in my life

It’s seems the bearpit has just switched across to the G&D

Doesn’t it just become entirely tedious trying to communicate with morons?

As the original poster I am watching this discussion with interest. I did actually consider posting this in the Bear Pit as I suspected it might get out of hand.
I realise that there have always been many poor but this year has pushed thousands more into dangerous financial difficulty where Christmas won't be much fun as shown in current ads.

[Kingstepper]

As the original poster I am watching this discussion with interest. I did actually consider posting this in the Bear Pit as I suspected it might get out of hand.
I realise that there have always been many poor but this year has pushed thousands more into dangerous financial difficulty where Christmas won't be much fun as shown in current ads.

Is it worse this year because there are a 'new poor' who aren't accustomed to being poor? Previously the poor just got on with managing best they could.

[MacDeath]

As the original poster I am watching this discussion with interest. I did actually consider posting this in the Bear Pit as I suspected it might get out of hand.

I realise that there have always been many poor but this year has pushed thousands more into dangerous financial difficulty where Christmas won't be much fun as shown in current ads.

Posting something in a particular place 'in case it gets out of hand' tells us you knew it was provocative and some will call that trolling. But it seems a genuine statement, of which I agree with in part. But any disagreement is met with the usual pseudo mods piling in and raising the temperature by insulting anyone who dares to enter the discussion.

But then again, the post was a bit silly IMHO. Ads are all year round and feature the elements you refer to and Christmas is just one event which could potentially push some to a low point. Every time you see a couple after losing your spouse, a pet after the same etc etc etc.

As the poster above, new poverty is a while off kicking in and those who would have been affected by the ads were likely poor before the ads started.

[Passenger]

Is it worse this year because there are a 'new poor' who aren't accustomed to being poor? Previously the poor just got on with managing best they could.

Certainly going to be worse for the new poor, don't imagine they'll be happy about the trajectory of their lives...I mean if you're working and working hard but simply cannot any longer make your earnings stretch to a modest lifestyle as costs are always racing away it must raise the question what's the blinking point of working this hard...even working at all when it simply doesn't pay enough, that you can't get by without recourse to things like food bank's, warm banks, chariddee shops etc. I mean on one level where's the dignity...and what hope for your kids when independent bodies like the IFS report this is it for years quite possibly decades...that's a hard pill to swallow for anyone even if they've seen some tough times before, perhaps they've lived through the last decade feeling that was at best a stagnant period in terms of their pay keeping pace with inflation, a situation apparently not uncommon for rather a lot of 30 yr olds and unders... and now this additional sudden DROP. Doesn't bear thinking about especially when contrasted with the official line about sunlit uplands and brexit only having upsides, freedumbs and taking back control etc...their lived experience must have been diametrically opposed to what they believed or at least have been told to expect, they must feel things are getting ever more out of their control, chaotic, insecure, that's not a nice way to live.


Apologies for straying over the line but twas only in the interest of trying for some context, understanding of the lives of others..

[oldoakknives]

.......

Apologies for straying over the line but twas only in the interest of trying for some context, understanding of the lives of others..

Course, would never have thought otherwise.

[RobDad]

For some years I have watched these adverts with the huge multi-generational families all having an apparently lovely time and thought of the elderly people on their own, the divorced, the bereaved etc and wondered how they felt when they saw them.
And of course the impoverished who may have the family around them but cannot afford the lavish spread, let alone the huge living rooms with huge dining tables. This year many more will feel uncomfortable and sad watching these largely unrealistic adverts, not comfortable viewing.

Quite. My parents divorced when I was young, as did my wife’s. We haven’t had a big multi generational Christmas in 30 years - and as a result we don’t have many gifts given or received, it’s generally just us and the kids for a decent lunch, we’re lucky to be able to afford Christmas but - as non churchgoers - it’s like any other day, and I’ve honestly never understood the fuss. What I find offensive is the suggestion that if you don’t participate and spend so much money that you’re almost bankrupt over Christmas that you’re some kind of mean Scrooge! -
For us it’s a day that reminds us of family gatherings that stopped happening many years ago, in the bleakest part of the year when it’s dark by mid afternoon. Seriously, what’s to like?? - bring on spring time please!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralphy]

That, under the present circumstances, many of these Christmas adverts showing large parties, big dinners and gifts may be a little insensitive. After all, there will be many thousands (millions?) of families that won't be able to afford Christmas this year.

Is it worse this year because there are a 'new poor' who aren't accustomed to being poor? Previously the poor just got on with managing best they could.

As there’s a lot more of them this year then yes, it is worse this year. And like the previously poor, many more now will also have to get on with managing the best they can.

R

[aa388]

I think there will be people really struggling with finance who to save face will spend on presents rather that come clean and say we’ve no money for them. Even multiple £500 limit bottom end credit cards to fill the gaps.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Kingstepper]

This thread should be in the BP where the usual suspects can steam in and repeat themselves over and over again with copious links to the Guardian

As opposed to the usual suspects like yourself I suppose.

[Ruggertech]

Quite. My parents divorced when I was young, as did my wife’s. We haven’t had a big multi generational Christmas in 30 years - and as a result we don’t have many gifts given or received, it’s generally just us and the kids for a decent lunch, we’re lucky to be able to afford Christmas but - as non churchgoers - it’s like any other day, and I’ve honestly never understood the fuss. What I find offensive is the suggestion that if you don’t participate and spend so much money that you’re almost bankrupt over Christmas that you’re some kind of mean Scrooge! -
For us it’s a day that reminds us of family gatherings that stopped happening many years ago, in the bleakest part of the year when it’s dark by mid afternoon. Seriously, what’s to like?? - bring on spring time please!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed, there is nearly always someone missing.

[Wolfie]

As the original poster I am watching this discussion with interest. I did actually consider posting this in the Bear Pit as I suspected it might get out of hand.
I realise that there have always been many poor but this year has pushed thousands more into dangerous financial difficulty where Christmas won't be much fun as shown in current ads.

When people’s mortgages come up for renewal in the next 24 months, it’ll be carnage…. I really fear for those who over extended (I did when I was much younger) it’s going to hit people who never considered themselves as poor…. Food is @ 16% and that disproportionally affects the most vulnerable in society…. It’s not so much the Christmas Day that will be affected for many its months either side….

Posting something in a particular place 'in case it gets out of hand' tells us you knew it was provocative and some will call that trolling. But it seems a genuine statement, of which I agree with in part. But any disagreement is met with the usual pseudo mods piling in and raising the temperature by insulting anyone who dares to enter the discussion.

But then again, the post was a bit silly IMHO. Ads are all year round and feature the elements you refer to and Christmas is just one event which could potentially push some to a low point. Every time you see a couple after losing your spouse, a pet after the same etc etc etc.

As the poster above, new poverty is a while off kicking in and those who would have been affected by the ads were likely poor before the ads started.

I think the original question was fair…. It’s the embellishments in your post that were seized upon by me last night as I hear the other side of it every day…. It’s such an inaccurate assumption that all those on benefits are have rare old time playing x box on their 75” telly…

Some game the system and screw them, but it’s just not true of the majority and it’s pretty grim when you can’t afford the basics….

At my wife’s school they’re feeding kids whenever they can (many don’t get breakfast)…. She’s noticed some kids are not getting their clothes washed so much (affording the washing machine to go on)... The school have had to step in to get electric / gas meters topped up… One kid is staying in a place with 13 people in a 3 bed property…. I could go on…. This is the real world I’m afraid and it’s not fun and games

I’m far from a pseudo moderator, I generally tread around this forum relatively gently….

Anyway…. Last orders were rung last night, so I’ll try to leave it at that!

[gregory]

I won't go into the teachers and nurses mode... as everyone who works has the right to be afloat, no matter what your occupation.

I personally left the NHS Ambulance Service because of the way things were going... and with a heavy heart. I feel that I am lucky to get out. << What a thing to actually have to type... that I felt lucky to escape a great institution which used to pay REASONABLY well to help people / save people. I never thought I would be THANKFUL to leave that. Tragic.


It really is incomprehensible that people who go out to work... and work hard... more than one person per family also ... cannot afford to live.

It literally now at a position where, if it wasn't for self respect or pride... it would be easy for people to think:
"What's the actual point?"


You can literally have NOTHING by not working. What is the point in TWO people working to have nothing?


As for the hardships of yesteryear. I understand it... I lived through the 70's in inner city Leeds. My mum made all my clothes as a seamstress ... blah blah blah.


So because we have suffered that kind of thing ourselves... does that mean that it's okay to see yet not care about a reversal in living standards NOW?

Is that what we have become?


"Oh that happened to me in 1976 so I don't really give a shoot about it happening to others right now?" All whilst checking SC to see what baubles we can acquire this month? I don't even buy watches these days. I am happy with what I have and find my little collection a thing to enjoy.


Working HARD to have nothing... that shouldn't even be a thing in 2020's Britain. It's the saddest thing ever.



Sadly it is a thing. And the more I feel that others don't even wholly care about that, the sadder this world becomes to me.

[Kingstepper]

My last post in the BP was weeks ago but don’t let that get in the way eh

Exactly, you're here.

You are one of the 'usual suspects'.

[Griswold]

I won't go into the teachers and nurses mode... as everyone who works has the right to be afloat, no matter what your occupation.

I personally left the NHS Ambulance Service because of the way things were going... and with a heavy heart. I feel that I am lucky to get out. << What a thing to actually have to type... that I felt lucky to escape a great institution which used to pay REASONBLY well to help people / save people. I never thought I would be THANKFUL to leave that. Tragic.


It really is incomprehensible that people who go out to work... and work hard... more than one person per family also ... cannot afford to live.

It literally now at a position where, if it wasn't for self respect or pride... it would be easy for people to think:
"What's the actual point?"


You can literally have NOTHING by not working. What is the point in TWO people working to have nothing?


As for the hardships of yesteryear. I understand it... I lived through the 70's in inner city Leeds. My mum made all my clothes as a seamstress ... blah blah blah.


So because we have suffered that kind of thing ourselves... does that mean that it's okay to see yet not care about a reversal in living standards NOW?

Is that what we have become?


"Oh that happened to me in 1976 so I don't really give a shoot about it happening to others right now?" All whilst checking SC to see what baubles we can acquire this month? I don't even buy watches these days. I am happy with what I have and find my little collection a thing to enjoy.


Working HARD to have nothing... that shouldn't even be a thing in 2020's Britain. It's the saddest thing ever.



Sadly it is a thing. And the more I feel that others don't even wholly care about that, the sadder this world becomes to me.

This, 100%