Reply With QuoteStrong John Terry vibes from Sergio Aguero there.
Why have they made Messi wear see through PPE for the trophy hand over?!?
Strong John Terry vibes from Sergio Aguero there.
Thank god it’s over, now we can get back to watching the Premier League.
Infantino can clear off for a couple of years with his millions safely tucked away
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Great game, all pens for me, with the current rules
So glad for Messi, blows away a lot of the nay-sayers
Worth mentioning the ref. Thought he had a blinder - there was even a free kick just outside the box where he gave an instant decision to play advantage that was spot on.
Ref was spot on. Never noticed him, which is what they strive for
I'm sure they said in commentary that he was an ex footballer himself so a good understanding of the game.Originally Posted by demonloop
Imaging scoring four goals in a world cup final and losing.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Messi and Dybala were both very fortunate . Lloris will look back and know he should’ve done better with them.
Fantastic game though, it had everything . Even down to the excellent chance for each team in the very last seconds .
Couldn't be happier for him :lol:
Argentina has 7 penalty shootouts in the World Cup history.
They have won six.
They lost their only penalty shootout in 2006 to Germany in quarterfinal when their main penalty saver Abbodanzieri got injured in that game.
It's not luck. Some nations are just better in the penalties.
I'm a England fan and I remember Chris Waddle's and Stuart Pierce's misses in 1990 semifinal.
I remember David Batty's miss in the 1998 2nd round game (against Argentina).
I remember last European Championship penalty shootout.
Just imagine yourself in that position. A few billion people are watching and you have already "lost" the game and the lead two times.
And then you score four penalties out of four.
Imagine England there. Be realistic.
Those guys have balls of steel. It has nothing to do with luck. It's not "lottery". People who say that are idiots.
What's their record in the Copa America?
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Brilliant game, and pleased for Messi and team - great result (as mentioned, balls of steel). Mbappe will have more chances. Some greats Stats from that game, and love McCoist's enthusiasm (both channel studio teams were crap in comparison).
With a little better luck England could have been in the final.
It was the best England team since 1990.
Just the most magnificent final and, from a footballing point of view, a sensational tournament.
It just guts me that it resulted, therefore, in being sensational sports washing. The Qataris couldn't have dreamed of a more perfect ending. Their two main faces (at club level) facing off in the ultimate match, played to the highest level, with the greatest drama, providing 5 goals between them (7 if you include the shootout) and the enduring image of Messi FINALLY becoming a World Champion and cementing his legacy for good.
I have been thrilled but, having thought it through, I'm now also depressed.
When Messi scored the third, the linesman puts his flag up for offside, the ref gave a goal, and straight away the lineman put his flag down. The ref was correct but he was in no position to make that call, as he was 20 yards behind the play. The ref should have followed the linesmans call and VAR would have given the goal.
Best team on the day won.
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You make your own luck.
England are a decent team with bang average manager, who culturally got it right, but was tactically appaling.
Anyway, it's not about mediocre England tonight, but about two far superior teams.
Congratulations Argentina. What a game.
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He got confirmation from VAR to his earphones of course. Of course the ref gets it first before the replays come. It was quickly checked.
Apart from first pen which was ridiculous
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I think it was really soft, although we see it in every league, week in week out.
Unfortunately we do. These days the defender has to be brighter and make sure he/she doesn't give the ref a reason to make a decision. Watching the whole tournament really made obvious how 'soft' the game is now, there wasn't a single bad / nasty tackle across 64 games.
Can't believe US and Mexico are hosting the next WC. In US kids are shot dead while learning to read and the nation has invaded many countries illegally.
As for Mexico - a hotspot of drug related crime with associated horrific gang violence.
Should just let Qatar host it moving forward
Messi has become as big legend as Maradona and Pele now, imho. Perhaps even surpassed them?
The man has 791 goals in 1002 games. That is insane. Has won absolutely everything in football.
Of course there will be deniers. What is their excuse now? He can't become as big because he never played as a goalkeeper and saved a penalty?
The argument might be that Maradona played in an era where there was a lot less protection from referees plus at club level he singlehandedly dragged teams to the title whereas Messi has played in fantastic club sides.
Both fabulous players, hard to choose between them IMHO
That is a fair argument. Messi has played on bowling greens and been protected all of his career. Maradona played on ploughed fields in comparison and virtually had limbs broken every game.
Maradona dragged teams and players to success whereas Messi has played for the best teams with the best players his whole career. He benefitted from having the very best of everything.
Would Diego have been as good or even better than Messi had he played in Messi's era? Absolutely he would. Could Messi have achieved what he has in Maradona's era? Not a chance.
That's why this is such a difficult subject. Apples and pears.
Use of a first name would indeed suggest unconscious bias however the reality is my hands are cold and I'm trying to use fewer letters. The truth is Tony I don't have a preference and nobody will ever know but I understand why the arguments I've stated are made. Either way they're first and second of all time in my opinion.
The greats would be great in any era. Debating who’s best seems futile. Just enjoy the talent.
Now.....that is a good one
Baltic today
Now.....that is a good one
Not sure you can assume messi couldn’t do it then and maradona could certainly do it now.
The game is technically better now than it was then, it’s easy to say pitches are better today and players are better coached and protected but that also applies to messi’s opponents too. Not sure why awful pitches and defenders that kick lumps out of players makes maradona a better player.
By the way I rate maradona in my top 3 players of all time however messi is number one in my opinion after last nights World Cup win, he’s likely to get an 8th ballon dor and that is simply unrivalled as well as all he’s other incredible records.
Pretty amazing to think Kylian Mbappe scored four times and ended up on the losing side, he still looked full of energy at the end, top man.
If football was like that final all the while I could then understand its draw.
Well played both teams.
Kylian Mbappe is the "next one". That guy is just outstanding. His pace is unbelievable.
Losing the final after having a hat trick is just crazy.
People say now that "He will get more chances as he's so young".
But it's so difficult to get to the World Cup final. So few countries ever make it.
Brazil is a top football nation and it's been 20 years since their last final.
There's no guarantee that Mbappe will ever go to the another World Cup final again and have the "third chance".
When Zidane and Thierry Henry retired France was a miserable team for years.
Griezmann and Giroud played their last tournament. And Benzema quit his national team career already.
Who knows...
Last edited by JPE; 19th December 2022 at 20:23.
From historical perspective...
Germany has 8 World Cup Final appearances, 4 titles
Brazil has 7 World Cup Final appearances, 5 titles
Italy has 6 World Cup Final appearances, 4 titles
Argentina has 6 World Cup Final appearances, 3 titles.
France has now 4 World Cup Final appearances, 2 titles.
But the big difference is that France's first World Cup Final was 1998. It has become the fifth "Big Football Nation".
Before 2010 there was never a World Cup Final played without Brazil, Germany, Italy or Argentina in the final... one of the four teams being at least the other participant.
If you look at football ELO ratings and history, France is relatively "new" big football nation. Sure they did great in the 80's with Platini... and won the European Championship but they never achieved anything in the World Cup before 1998.
France was third in 1958, with Just Fontaine best scorer (I think his tally still holds). And fourth in 1982.
Also 1978 was won by Argentina against The Netherlands.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Sure. And during the Platini era they were one of the best teams in the world.
They got robbed in the 1982 semifinal. Schumacher knocked out Battiston who went to intensive care and almost died.
France didn't get the penalty and Schumacher didn't even receive a yellow for his outrageous foul. Definitely the worst foul in the World Cup history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGq7VcaHoqo
Updated FIFA rankings. What a joke!
What is Belgium STILL doing up there? Biggest flop of the World Cup.
Brazil had a great run in the qualifying rounds of the World Cup but lost the Copa America final to Argentina and was now eliminated in the QF. Meanwhile Argentina won the Copa America, The Finalissimo and the World Cup... lost 1 game out of 41 games.
What is this ranking based on?
ELO rankings is MUCH better. Sure it's not 100% perfect but at least it's based on something.
Revision of the FIFA / Coca-Cola World Ranking
Overview
The new model for calculating the FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking (FWR) was developed over two years during which time a large number of different algorithms was tested and extensively discussed.
Throughout this review and consultation process, the main aim was to identify an algorithm that is not only intuitive, easy to understand and improves overall accuracy of the formula, but also addresses feedback received about the previous model and provides fair and equal opportunities for all teams across all confederations to ascend the FWR.
About the new formula
The Elo method of calculation adds/subtracts points (as opposed to averaging points) for individual matches to/from a team’s existing point total. The points which are added or subtracted are partially determined by the relative strength of the two opponents, including the logical expectation that teams higher in the ranking should fare better against teams lower in the ranking.
Elo ratings have been used in other sports for decades. A modified version of the Elo rating is currently in use for the FIFA Women's World Ranking.
Termed by FIFA as “SUM”, the new algorithm developed specifically for the new FWR was fine-tuned to reflect a number of FIFA’s considerations, including the following:
- Adjusting the game weightings to give:
o less importance to friendly matches and more importance to final round competitions, such as the FIFA World Cup Finals
o more importance to knock-out stage matches than group stage matches in final competitions
- Excluding losses in knock-out rounds of final competitions from the calculation
The formula for the SUM algorithm is as follows:
P = Pbefore + I * (W – We)
Pbefore: Points before the match
I: importance of match
I= 05 Friendly matches played outside of International Match Calendar windows
I= 10 Friendly matches played during International Match Calendar windows
I= 15 Group phase matches of Nations League competitions
I= 25 Play-off and final matches of Nations League competitions
I= 25 Qualification matches for Confederations final competitions and for FIFA World Cup final competitions
I= 35 Confederation final competition matches up until the QF stage
I= 40 Confederation final competition matches from the QF stage onwards; all FIFA Confede-rations Cup matches
I= 50 FIFA World Cup final competition matches up until QF stage
I= 60 FIFA World Cup final competition matches from QF stage onwards
W: result of the match
1 = win; 0.5 = draw; 0 = defeat
We: expected result of the match
We = 1 / (10(-dr/600) + 1)
With dr=difference in ratings of the two playing teams, i.e. dr = [Pbefore of Team A – Pbefore of Team B]
Example: Team A has 1300 points before the match and wins a continental qualifier against team B that has 1500 points.
For team A the formula is: P=1300+25*(1–(1/(10 exp (-(1300–1500)/600) +1)))
For team B the formula is: P = 1500 + 25 * (0- (1 / (10 exp (-(1500-1300)/600) + 1)))
Thus, team A wins 17 points and has P = 1317 points after the match. Team B loses the same amount of points and thus ends up with 1483 points after the match.
Additional conditions
A few additional conditions included within the new SUM formula to address specific issues in international football include:
Penalty shoot-out (PSO): Matches decided in a PSO are treated as a draw for the losing team and as "half a win" for the winning team: W for the winning team is 0.75 instead of 1.0 for a win after regular or extended time.
If PSO, then W for losing team= 0.5
W for winning team= 0.75
Note: In some instances, games end with a winner after regular or extended time, but still include a PSO to determine the team that eventually will get to the next round. These games are treated as normal wins and defeats.
Knock-out rounds of final competitions: Teams that earn negative points in the knock-out round of a final competition (e.g. as a result of losing, or even winning after PSO against a weaker team) do not lose any points:
If (W – We) < 0 then P = Pbefore
This condition was introduced in order to protect the point totals of teams that have progressed to the knock-out round.
With respect to the introduction of SUM, it was important to transition smoothly from the previous FWR to the new one. For the initial seeding of teams in the new FWR, teams were evenly distributed over a range of approximately 800 to 1600 points1. The point difference between two adjacent teams was set at 4 points.
1 Upper value corresponds to approximate points total of best ranked team in previous FWR in June 2018 (e.g. Germany = 1558 points)
A two-step procedure guided the conversion:
1) The previous ranking table was converted into a new table without displacement in the order of the teams; i.e. each team retained its relative rank position. In instances where teams shared the identical rank (R), the teams which followed were given the next immediate rank possible.
Example: If there were two teams in position no. 11, they both got R = 11, and the following team got R = 12 (instead of R =13).
2) The points for seeding were calculated:
Pseeding= 1600 - (R – 1) * 4
Examples:
Pseeding for team with R= 1 is 1600
Pseeding for team with R = 3 is 1592
Pseeding for team with R = 100 is 1204
Pseeding for team with R = 200 is 804
Benefits of the new formula
1. One of the main advantages of SUM is that it allowed for a smooth transition from the previous ranking formula to the new one. All teams started SUM in rank order of the old FWR. Once the conversion was done, the results of the 2018 FIFA World Cup RussiaTM were then calculated.
2. Annual average point calculation – which was part of the previous world ranking formula – is not factored in the SUM equation. Consequently the issues which arose in conjunction with the previous calculation method will be mitigated, or disappear entirely, including the devaluation of points through time, daily point fluctuations, and the ability of teams to influence ranking position by avoiding friendly matches.
3. The Confederation weighting variables of the previous formula, which made rising in the standings more challenging for teams from Confederations other than Europe or South America, has been be removed. Teams will now have an equal chance to improve in the standings irrespective of their regional affiliation.
4. New categories of matches and match weightings have been introduced to effectively distinguish the least from the most important types of matches. To begin, friendly matches are given a lower weighting relative to competitive matches. Further, friendlies are now also distinguished between those played during International Match Calendar windows (value = 10) versus those played outside the official calendar dates (value = 5).
Competitive matches in championship tournaments are now distinguished between group stage matches and late-stage knock-out matches in order to reward the most successful teams in the most difficult competitions. Furthermore, to mitigate the negative consequences of losing matches in championship tournaments, losses in the knock-out rounds of final competitions will not result in point deductions for the losing team.
5. The ranking of host nations who do not play competitive qualification matches in the period before championship competitions will not be as severely or negatively impacted with the SUM formula as with the previous one. Thanks to the sum-of-points calculation method, successful results in friendly matches will result in point gains more substantive than the existing formula currently allows.
Do the rankings effect anything (seedings?) or it’s as important as SPOTY?
Scotland 8th then just above Morocco?Updated FIFA rankings. What a joke!
What is Belgium STILL doing up there? Biggest flop of the World Cup.
Brazil had a great run in the qualifying rounds of the World Cup but lost the Copa America final to Argentina and was now eliminated in the QF. Meanwhile Argentina won the Copa America, The Finalissimo and the World Cup... lost 1 game out of 41 games.
What is this ranking based on?
ELO rankings is MUCH better. Sure it's not 100% perfect but at least it's based on something.
Fixed. Scotland 80th then just above Morocco Ladies ?
As high as that! They must be getting better,
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot :
https://twitter.com/FOXSportsArg/sta...sprejem-595033
In reality Scotland might get a seeding - as a Sunday pub team! Hurts, but it’s true.As high as that! They must be getting better,
Jim
I was waiting for this championship very much because this title meant a lot to my favorite football player, Messi. And when Argentina got into the final, I got nervous as if I had been one of the players on the pitch. And the final match itself was the most dramatic, and the most nerve-burning football match I have ever seen. It was even more fantastic and than the champions league final in 2009 Liverpool against Milan. I am glad that I could watch it online.
Last edited by Owren; 8th February 2023 at 16:49.
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