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Thread: Hive vs Nest plus boiler installation cost question

  1. #1
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Hive vs Nest plus boiler installation cost question

    Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

    Hive or Nest, and why?

    Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?
    Last edited by learningtofly; 14th November 2022 at 19:31.

  2. #2
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    Hive vs Nest

    I would add Tado and also honeywell to the list. Also make sure whatever you choose get one that can can modulated the boiler properly and has weather compensation for intelligent smart use rather than just an app based on/off system.

    Also Hive would be bottom of my list as it’s pretty dumb in functionality.

    I have had nest and now Tado in the new house. Some features are now subscription based in tado but can packs that have the full features included.

    I liked the motion sensor that nest has and miss that in the tado. Tado is also relies on phone location to get the best of it.

    Tado runs by boiler properly though that the app shows how hard it’s working the boiler when it’s triggered.

    Start with boiler choice then look at the smart thermostat.
    Last edited by Middo; 14th November 2022 at 16:33.

  3. #3
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Not much to choose from between the two. I've had both and they are practically identical in terms of functionality. User interface is equal too. I think I had Nest originally because of slightly better integration with Apple, but I'm using Hive with google assistant and apple fine at the moment.

  4. #4
    Very happy with Nest, super simple to use and not an eyesore.
    "Bite my shiny metal ass."
    - Bender Bending Rodríguez

  5. #5
    Hive has a ready by option, it learns how long the system takes to get up to the desired temperature.
    In theory this is great, in reality it never learns and just switches on an hour before the scheduled time.

    The geolocation part is rubbish, it just sends alerts and doesn't alter the schedule.


    The app is ok (on android) but not the widget as that was always trying to update. I quite like the smoke alarm/dog bark alerts, sadly they're stopping those soon.

    Also it annoyed me that when we moved into our house the hub left behind by the previous owners was useless as it couldn't be registered to another account. Incredibly wasteful to have to throw away a working piece of kit and buy another.


    On the plus side the thermostat looks ok and is dead easy to use.

    2 stars from me.

  6. #6
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Thanks all. I'm certainly leaning towards Nest from my own research... just don't know whether to stick it on the wall using the feed from the existing thermostat, or have it on a stand somewhere plugged into a wall socket.

    Not much time to think about it, as it looks like the boiler replacment's being done on Thursday, to facilitate some additional plumbing work on Friday, and give us some bloody heat after a couple weeks in the cold!

  7. #7
    We’re getting a Tado system installed this week. We were advised Tado due to number of smart rad valves we wanted (Hive can only support a certain number). Tado and Honeywell seem to be recommended for bigger systems but the company we’re using said they’d had bad experience with connectivity with Honeywell hence Tado being the best option. Or they’ve got loads of Tado systems knocking about that they needed to get rid of!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Thanks all. I'm certainly leaning towards Nest from my own research... just don't know whether to stick it on the wall using the feed from the existing thermostat, or have it on a stand somewhere plugged into a wall socket.

    Not much time to think about it, as it looks like the boiler replacment's being done on Thursday, to facilitate some additional plumbing work on Friday, and give us some bloody heat after a couple weeks in the cold!
    Tony,

    Also depends whether your current thermostat is low voltage or not. Until we did the kitchen, we had to have it sat elsewhere & the old stat turned to maximum to make it work for heat (now terminated with the wires connected and in the wall)

    Needed a new wire from the boiler/panel to use - you may find similar. Luckily my ceiling was full of holes at this stage, so was much easier to thread the wire through.

    Given the age of your current boiler, I’d assume the worst on the voltage being incorrect & that you will need it sitting elsewhere. Just remember to turn the old stat all the way up otherwise you will never get heat. You could also Google your current stat to see what sort it is.

    If I had my time again, I’d go Tado with smart control valves in all the rooms and do proper smart set up vs slightly smarter.

    Expensive things boilers, don’t envy you that.


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  9. #9
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Tony,

    Also depends whether your current thermostat is low voltage or not. Until we did the kitchen, we had to have it sat elsewhere & the old stat turned to maximum to make it work for heat (now terminated with the wires connected and in the wall)

    Needed a new wire from the boiler/panel to use - you may find similar. Luckily my ceiling was full of holes at this stage, so was much easier to thread the wire through.

    Given the age of your current boiler, I’d assume the worst on the voltage being incorrect & that you will need it sitting elsewhere. Just remember to turn the old stat all the way up otherwise you will never get heat. You could also Google your current stat to see what sort it is.

    If I had my time again, I’d go Tado with smart control valves in all the rooms and do proper smart set up vs slightly smarter.

    Expensive things boilers, don’t envy you that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Now I'm confused - if the old stat is disconnected/removed, and the Nest hub controls the system settings why do I need to worry about the old stat's settings?

    The boiler is annoying but given the age of the plumbing, the general water pressure (not great) and the fact that we've got two bathrooms I'm not going to replace the regular boiler with a combi. It's therefore really just the (regular) boiler installation so it could be worse.

    Noted re the potential low voltage issue though, Matt.

  10. #10
    Craftsman ELD1970's Avatar
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    Hive all day long. Tried both and the Hive app is simple and easy to use.


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  11. #11
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    I’ve got a Nest and generally am very pleased with it.

    When I was deciding I discounted Hive because I was told that it required a working internet connection to operate, I.e. if your router is down for whatever reason then your Hive would stop working as well. Now I don’t know if this is/was true but one of the reasons for choosing a Nest was that it would work as a standalone programmer/thermostat if you lost your internet connection, you’d just loose the ability to manage it from their App.

    I also wanted nothing more to do with British Gas who’d bought Hive…

    This was 3-4 years ago and if I was choosing today I think I’d look seriously at Tado as I like the sound of the integration with their WiFi connected TRV’s.

  12. #12
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Cant comment on Hive, but we have had Nest for about 3 years now with no issues.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  13. #13
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Added another question re installation costs

  14. #14
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    Hive vs Nest plus installation cost question

    I fitted TADO myself really easy. Only issue was waiting for the firmware to update.

    Plus they can be battery operated and that saves your wiring issue.
    Last edited by Middo; 14th November 2022 at 17:43.

  15. #15
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Hive vs Nest plus installation cost question

    Much of a muchness re Nest Vs Hive, especially if you control it via a smart assistant anyway.

    I wouldn't have it in the wall unless you have to. Mine is only in the wall as it's hiding the hole where the last one was. In the last house it was just on a stand plugged in like a phone via USB. I don't see any reason why a thermostat was ever in a hallway.

    Don't expect savings, just convenience.

    Install costs don't matter, it's just a one off. Unless the difference is brutal I wouldn't have that as a consideration at all.

  16. #16
    We generally fit Hive, we’ve had no issues or faults and must have installed over 100 units, everything you might want to add, such as lightbulbs, sensors or cameras are plug and play, easy peasy.

  17. #17
    Master ed335d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timor54 View Post

    When I was deciding I discounted Hive because I was told that it required a working internet connection to operate, I.e. if your router is down for whatever reason then your Hive would stop working as well. Now I don’t know if this is/was true
    It's true

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Now I'm confused - if the old stat is disconnected/removed, and the Nest hub controls the system settings why do I need to worry about the old stat's settings?

    The boiler is annoying but given the age of the plumbing, the general water pressure (not great) and the fact that we've got two bathrooms I'm not going to replace the regular boiler with a combi. It's therefore really just the (regular) boiler installation so it could be worse.

    Noted re the potential low voltage issue though, Matt.
    If you remove the old one & connect the wires to be ‘always on’ and buried in the wall, then all is good. We waited to do this until we had electricians in for the kitchen wiring.

    The requirement to have the old one set to max was to ensure the current wiring created the call for heat circuit correctly. Once removed and the circuit done properly, then all sorted.

    It confused me at first, perhaps we have a strange house, but the installer seemed to know what he was doing (and the kitchen electricians didn’t raise any comment on the install when they removed it).

    We found having it in the lounge was strange vs what we had been used to for managing temps elsewhere in the house.

    Believe there is a standard fitting charge for Nest that you can pay for via their website.

  19. #19
    Craftsman eletos's Avatar
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    Got 5 nest stats in the house. I installed the first one with a standard boiler and thermal store to replace the rigid box on the wall. Best thing I ever did.

    Since having water underfloor heating installed all the zones are nest controlled.

    They look smart and just work.


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  20. #20
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    I have hive but if i was staring from scratch would look at Tado


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  21. #21
    Just had an email that Hive have started their Black Friday sale. Might be worth a look.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ed335d View Post
    It's true
    It is true but you can override

  23. #23
    At the risk of confusing things, another good alternative smart thermostat system is Drayton Wiser. I fitted one recently along with connected TRVs as I wanted the ability to heat one room individually when WFH and also have more flexibility setting up heating schedules to match house occupancy. I thought the overall cost and functionality was pretty good - a chunk cheaper than Honeywell and the smart TRVs are usually just under £40 a piece. I’m really happy with this - reviews suggested this was more flexible than Nest for a dual zone system like mine, but I can’t claim any expertise. The app works really well and you can geofence if you wish. There are some pretty comprehensive reviews on smart thermostat systems on YouTube if you want to kill some time…

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ed335d View Post
    It's true


    Not really, with no internet you have to control it via the the thermostat. To use the app you need a hub and internet.

    I moved into my house the day before lockdown started didn't have internet and the hub wasn't registered to me and the heat and water were fine.

  25. #25
    Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
    cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
    fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.

    Also in the event of a internet outage - the heatlink for nest has a button to turn on heating/hotwater.
    Now if the heatlink breaks (which has happened to me and lots of others) you are stuffed til its fixed.

    I suspect most of the smart setups have similar options/issues.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
    cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
    fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.

    Also in the event of a internet outage - the heatlink for nest has a button to turn on heating/hotwater.
    Now if the heatlink breaks (which has happened to me and lots of others) you are stuffed til its fixed.

    I suspect most of the smart setups have similar options/issues.
    Time to RTFM as no idea how to use that button!


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  27. #27
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

    Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

    I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

  28. #28
    Both good.

    I have Hive as it came with a BG install. I have TRVs on each radiator and have them scheduled to warm up when they need to.

    The new boiler + TRVs saved me a 1/3 off my gas bill so I recommend you buy them too.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al, do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

    Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 10 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

    I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.
    I have 8 rooms with radiators. As I have kids and a design conscious wide each is behind a cover, some with things on them. Turning these off and on would take hours a week.

    Having the kids bedrooms heat for an hour before and after bed time and 1/2 an hour before they get up, while heating my study and the missus's office on a completely different schedule, while ensuring the lounge and the family room are warm in the early evening for homework and TV isn't something you want to do manually. The Hive app makes this a doddle and replaces the old situation where they were more or less on all all the time.

  30. #30
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

    Hive or Nest, and why?

    Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?
    I thought your boiler was firing okay?

  31. #31
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    Installation costs look pretty reasonable

    Go for a TRV controlled system, it makes a lot more sense and will save you in the long term…. A lot more control and your installer can put the hub in as easily as a Nest/ Hive…. Adding the TRVs are a 2 minute doddle for each one

    I have Wiser - excellent
    Honeywell and Tado also supposed to be good

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

    Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

    I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.
    More to it than that, done properly you have weather compensation and boiler modulation.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

    Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

    I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.
    The big thing for me is to allow for different radiator temps depending on the day of the week and time of the day. My office isn’t heated in the evening and weekends, the bedrooms aren’t heated during the day. Yes I could go round and do that manually but we have 18 radiators, so for me it was worth the expense to get the gadgets to do it for me.


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  34. #34
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Thanks all… everything is useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
    cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
    fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.
    I have an overall price for the job, Matt, and can work out fairly accurately what the parts and materials costs are. In fact I may have overstated the labour costs a bit, if the boiler comes with the filter/protection kit.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

    Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

    I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.
    I read an article yesterday - can’t remember where - saying they don’t generally save you any money at all. Most people override them and then you might as well not bother. I know I’m a curmudgeon, and blokes love a gadget - I’ve got plenty myself - but its a bit like smart bulbs and the like imho. Get off the sofa, walk 5 feet and press a button. No need to have everything app controlled from your phone, put the damned thing in a cupboard every now and again and press a switch here and there, turn a dial - it’s not all that much of a trial is it??!!


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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Thanks all… everything is useful.


    I have an overall price for the job, Matt, and can work out fairly accurately what the parts and materials costs are. In fact I may have overstated the labour costs a bit, if the boiler comes with the filter/protection kit.
    What does the labour for the job include?
    For example do you get a power flush.
    Do they have to upgrade any existing pipework.
    How many men and is it a separate electrician or will the heating engineer be doing it.

  37. #37
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    My priority would be to ensure the hardware side of the heating installation is 100% up to scratch, the control system is secondary. If a new boiler us required ensure it is sited in the best place, ideally to keep the pipe runs short, and ensure it us sized correctly for the duty. Don’t simply accept what the installer says, work through the logic and the numbers until you’re convinced. Simple things like ensuring the pipes are run in sensible places and, where necessary, are lagged correctly. Get the radiators flushed thoroughly and install new PRV valves whilst the system is being overhauled. Get the system as healthy as it can be and then consider the control philosophy. It’s fashionable to be able to control heating etc from your telephone but don’t be taken in by the novelty factor.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 14th November 2022 at 23:08.

  38. #38
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Leeds View Post
    What does the labour for the job include?
    For example do you get a power flush.
    Do they have to upgrade any existing pipework.
    How many men and is it a separate electrician or will the heating engineer be doing it.
    The heating engineer will do the electrics too, and the pipework seems to be fine as is. I’ve asked the question about the powerflush, but I don’t think it’s included.

    A friend on here who’s in the business has kindly benchmarked the cost for me. It’s a bit toppy but I’ve asked them to come back with a keener price. If they don’t I’ll have to make a decision as to whether a potential saving of circa 20% is worth another week or two without central heating, and potentially delaying the plumbing works as well.

    The timing is pants.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 14th November 2022 at 23:30.

  39. #39
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    We have Nest - underfloor heating throughout downstairs, rads upstairs in 3 bedrooms. We also have Nest Heat/smoke detectors downstairs and at the head of the staircase. It all integrates well and works fine. Heating control via wall mounted thermostat/app works fine as does the smoke/heat detection (which does a scheduled test of itself).
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  40. #40
    We have hive.
    Happy with it as well.
    The app works great
    I had a baxi 830 boiler fitted last week
    £1900 all in

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    The heating engineer will do the electrics too, and the pipework seems to be fine as is. I’ve asked the question about the powerflush, but I don’t think it’s included.

    A friend on here who’s in the business has kindly benchmarked the cost for me. It’s a bit toppy but I’ve asked them to come back with a keener price. If they don’t I’ll have to make a decision as to whether a potential saving of circa 20% is worth another week or two without central heating, and potentially delaying the plumbing works as well.

    The timing is pants.
    It sounds like they could be in and out in a day which makes it an expensive job.

  42. #42
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Leeds View Post
    It sounds like they could be in and out in a day which makes it an expensive job.
    Yes, they (he) would be.

    I've slept on it and have decided not to rush the work but instead to get two more quotes. My plumber is happy that he can do the work booked in for Friday without the boiler running so I'll just accept a few more days without heat to ensure that I get best value.

  43. #43
    but its a bit like smart bulbs and the like imho. Get off the sofa, walk 5 feet and press a button. No need to have everything app controlled from your phone, put the damned thing in a cupboard every now and again and press a switch here and there, turn a dial - it’s not all that much of a trial is it??!!
    I’ll be fitting tado TRV’s in new flat soon, will mean the main warm room will flip from bathroom to 2nd bedroom/office to lounge to main bedroom throughout the day when we are working from home and do so before we are in the room, it’s pointless to heat the whole flat when we are not in all the rooms and while you could possibly go round and turn up/down a dumb TRV the reality is that will soon end up a chore, forgetting and just leaving them on.

    i’m happy to switch a light on and off though as that’s less labour intensive.

  44. #44
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    Hive vs Nest plus boiler installation cost question

    OP - have you chooses the boiler yet? If not do that first then pick the smart system that can operate it correctly with the appropriate eBus.

    Tado sent a firmware change to give me full control over my valiant boiler via eBus.

    Also this may explain why that’s important.

    https://youtu.be/IRybadWKsYk
    Last edited by Middo; 15th November 2022 at 11:07.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

    Hive or Nest, and why?

    Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?
    Hi mate. I’m getting 20% off offers via email on hive stuff if ya need any help.
    Cheers Andy

  46. #46
    Do get something that supports valves - I had Netatmo system in my old house and miss it although probably wouldn't choose Netatmo now.

    If you are having water flow issues and have the space have a look at an accumulator - Trentclyde Water Solutions Mainsboost transformed our water supply.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, they (he) would be.

    I've slept on it and have decided not to rush the work but instead to get two more quotes. My plumber is happy that he can do the work booked in for Friday without the boiler running so I'll just accept a few more days without heat to ensure that I get best value.
    To do your particular job properly it should take minimum two visits.
    Your heating is tank fed so I would be very surprised if the central heating system water is very clean.
    I could be wrong but I doubt the engineer will have tested the water during pricing.
    At the very least it will need some type of system restorer such as a Sentinel X400.
    This would be left in the system for longer than a day.
    Ideally you would do this with the existing boiler but yours doesn't work.
    It also has to be commissioned and that can take a good couple of hours.
    Your guarantee will be affected if the boiler manufacturer are called out under warranty and the system water isn't satisfactory.

  48. #48
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    We have Hive at home, running a combi boiler

    I went all out and purchased TRVs and also Hive bulbs for the bedrooms. It works well and love the "mimic" you're at home mode, where by it iwll randomly switch the lights on and off to make it look like someone is at home.

    You only need internet to use the app.

    Also Hive thermostat doesn't need a power socket, can be run by batteries

  49. #49
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    So-o-o ………….

    What was the fault with the original boiler?

  50. #50
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    So-o-o ………….

    What was the fault with the original boiler?
    PCB and gas valves, the latter of which are now obsolete (meaning any stock of OEM replacements are stupidly expensive, or it's a question of refurbished or clones). This had implications for both cost and warranty, so - given that the boiler is now 20 years old - I thought replacing rather than throwing money at it was a better option.

    As an aside, I was wrong when I thought it had been firing - it hadn't. The pilot light was on but it was continuously sparking anyway and there was no gas supply to ignite.

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