Hive vs Nest plus boiler installation cost question

[learningtofly]

Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

Hive or Nest, and why?

Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?

[Middo]

I would add Tado and also honeywell to the list. Also make sure whatever you choose get one that can can modulated the boiler properly and has weather compensation for intelligent smart use rather than just an app based on/off system.

Also Hive would be bottom of my list as it’s pretty dumb in functionality.

I have had nest and now Tado in the new house. Some features are now subscription based in tado but can packs that have the full features included.

I liked the motion sensor that nest has and miss that in the tado. Tado is also relies on phone location to get the best of it.

Tado runs by boiler properly though that the app shows how hard it’s working the boiler when it’s triggered.

Start with boiler choice then look at the smart thermostat.

[Christian]

Not much to choose from between the two. I've had both and they are practically identical in terms of functionality. User interface is equal too. I think I had Nest originally because of slightly better integration with Apple, but I'm using Hive with google assistant and apple fine at the moment.

[kace]

Hive has a ready by option, it learns how long the system takes to get up to the desired temperature.
In theory this is great, in reality it never learns and just switches on an hour before the scheduled time.

The geolocation part is rubbish, it just sends alerts and doesn't alter the schedule.


The app is ok (on android) but not the widget as that was always trying to update. I quite like the smoke alarm/dog bark alerts, sadly they're stopping those soon.

Also it annoyed me that when we moved into our house the hub left behind by the previous owners was useless as it couldn't be registered to another account. Incredibly wasteful to have to throw away a working piece of kit and buy another.


On the plus side the thermostat looks ok and is dead easy to use.

2 stars from me.

[learningtofly]

Thanks all. I'm certainly leaning towards Nest from my own research... just don't know whether to stick it on the wall using the feed from the existing thermostat, or have it on a stand somewhere plugged into a wall socket.

Not much time to think about it, as it looks like the boiler replacment's being done on Thursday, to facilitate some additional plumbing work on Friday, and give us some bloody heat after a couple weeks in the cold!

[Mj2k]

Thanks all. I'm certainly leaning towards Nest from my own research... just don't know whether to stick it on the wall using the feed from the existing thermostat, or have it on a stand somewhere plugged into a wall socket.

Not much time to think about it, as it looks like the boiler replacment's being done on Thursday, to facilitate some additional plumbing work on Friday, and give us some bloody heat after a couple weeks in the cold!

Tony,

Also depends whether your current thermostat is low voltage or not. Until we did the kitchen, we had to have it sat elsewhere & the old stat turned to maximum to make it work for heat (now terminated with the wires connected and in the wall)

Needed a new wire from the boiler/panel to use - you may find similar. Luckily my ceiling was full of holes at this stage, so was much easier to thread the wire through.

Given the age of your current boiler, I’d assume the worst on the voltage being incorrect & that you will need it sitting elsewhere. Just remember to turn the old stat all the way up otherwise you will never get heat. You could also Google your current stat to see what sort it is.

If I had my time again, I’d go Tado with smart control valves in all the rooms and do proper smart set up vs slightly smarter.

Expensive things boilers, don’t envy you that.


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[Jack83]

We’re getting a Tado system installed this week. We were advised Tado due to number of smart rad valves we wanted (Hive can only support a certain number). Tado and Honeywell seem to be recommended for bigger systems but the company we’re using said they’d had bad experience with connectivity with Honeywell hence Tado being the best option. Or they’ve got loads of Tado systems knocking about that they needed to get rid of!

[stooo]

Very happy with Nest, super simple to use and not an eyesore.

[ELD1970]

Hive all day long. Tried both and the Hive app is simple and easy to use.


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[JasonM]

Cant comment on Hive, but we have had Nest for about 3 years now with no issues.

[timor54]

I’ve got a Nest and generally am very pleased with it.

When I was deciding I discounted Hive because I was told that it required a working internet connection to operate, I.e. if your router is down for whatever reason then your Hive would stop working as well. Now I don’t know if this is/was true but one of the reasons for choosing a Nest was that it would work as a standalone programmer/thermostat if you lost your internet connection, you’d just loose the ability to manage it from their App.

I also wanted nothing more to do with British Gas who’d bought Hive…

This was 3-4 years ago and if I was choosing today I think I’d look seriously at Tado as I like the sound of the integration with their WiFi connected TRV’s.

[learningtofly]

Added another question re installation costs

[ed335d]

When I was deciding I discounted Hive because I was told that it required a working internet connection to operate, I.e. if your router is down for whatever reason then your Hive would stop working as well. Now I don’t know if this is/was true

It's true

[Craizeehair]

It's true

It is true but you can override

[Pathtower]

At the risk of confusing things, another good alternative smart thermostat system is Drayton Wiser. I fitted one recently along with connected TRVs as I wanted the ability to heat one room individually when WFH and also have more flexibility setting up heating schedules to match house occupancy. I thought the overall cost and functionality was pretty good - a chunk cheaper than Honeywell and the smart TRVs are usually just under £40 a piece. I’m really happy with this - reviews suggested this was more flexible than Nest for a dual zone system like mine, but I can’t claim any expertise. The app works really well and you can geofence if you wish. There are some pretty comprehensive reviews on smart thermostat systems on YouTube if you want to kill some time…

[kace]

It's true

Not really, with no internet you have to control it via the the thermostat. To use the app you need a hub and internet.

I moved into my house the day before lockdown started didn't have internet and the hub wasn't registered to me and the heat and water were fine.

[MattH]

Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.

Also in the event of a internet outage - the heatlink for nest has a button to turn on heating/hotwater.
Now if the heatlink breaks (which has happened to me and lots of others) you are stuffed til its fixed.

I suspect most of the smart setups have similar options/issues.

[Mj2k]

Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.

Also in the event of a internet outage - the heatlink for nest has a button to turn on heating/hotwater.
Now if the heatlink breaks (which has happened to me and lots of others) you are stuffed til its fixed.

I suspect most of the smart setups have similar options/issues.

Time to RTFM as no idea how to use that button!


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[guinea]

Both good.

I have Hive as it came with a BG install. I have TRVs on each radiator and have them scheduled to warm up when they need to.

The new boiler + TRVs saved me a 1/3 off my gas bill so I recommend you buy them too.

[learningtofly]

Thanks all… everything is useful.

Nest for me - works well and I have a couple of the smoke detectors as well.
cost wise you can buy the nest and installation for a set
fee.. seems odd quoting labour but not the boiler/nest costs etc.

I have an overall price for the job, Matt, and can work out fairly accurately what the parts and materials costs are. In fact I may have overstated the labour costs a bit, if the boiler comes with the filter/protection kit.

[Onelasttime]

What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

[guinea]

What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al, do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 10 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

I have 8 rooms with radiators. As I have kids and a design conscious wide each is behind a cover, some with things on them. Turning these off and on would take hours a week.

Having the kids bedrooms heat for an hour before and after bed time and 1/2 an hour before they get up, while heating my study and the missus's office on a completely different schedule, while ensuring the lounge and the family room are warm in the early evening for homework and TV isn't something you want to do manually. The Hive app makes this a doddle and replaces the old situation where they were more or less on all all the time.

[Middo]

What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

More to it than that, done properly you have weather compensation and boiler modulation.

[stuie-t]

What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

The big thing for me is to allow for different radiator temps depending on the day of the week and time of the day. My office isn’t heated in the evening and weekends, the bedrooms aren’t heated during the day. Yes I could go round and do that manually but we have 18 radiators, so for me it was worth the expense to get the gadgets to do it for me.


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[RobDad]

What do Nest/Hive/Tado et al do that walking into a room and turning up/down the TRV on a radiator doesn't?

Convenience I guess, but how big are your houses that you can't walk from one room to another in about 5 seconds? How often do you need to turn the heating on before arriving home so the house is exactly 20ºC?

I'm no luddite but I've looked into them and I can't see what I'm missing.

I read an article yesterday - can’t remember where - saying they don’t generally save you any money at all. Most people override them and then you might as well not bother. I know I’m a curmudgeon, and blokes love a gadget - I’ve got plenty myself - but its a bit like smart bulbs and the like imho. Get off the sofa, walk 5 feet and press a button. No need to have everything app controlled from your phone, put the damned thing in a cupboard every now and again and press a switch here and there, turn a dial - it’s not all that much of a trial is it??!!


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[Middo]

I fitted TADO myself really easy. Only issue was waiting for the firmware to update.

Plus they can be battery operated and that saves your wiring issue.

[wileeeeeey]

Much of a muchness re Nest Vs Hive, especially if you control it via a smart assistant anyway.

I wouldn't have it in the wall unless you have to. Mine is only in the wall as it's hiding the hole where the last one was. In the last house it was just on a stand plugged in like a phone via USB. I don't see any reason why a thermostat was ever in a hallway.

Don't expect savings, just convenience.

Install costs don't matter, it's just a one off. Unless the difference is brutal I wouldn't have that as a consideration at all.

[blackal]

Much of a muchness re Nest Vs Hive, especially if you control it via a smart assistant anyway.

I wouldn't have it in the wall unless you have to. Mine is only in the wall as it's hiding the hole where the last one was. In the last house it was just on a stand plugged in like a phone via USB. **I don't see any reason why a thermostat was ever in a hallway.

Don't expect savings, just convenience.

Install costs don't matter, it's just a one off. Unless the difference is brutal I wouldn't have that as a consideration at all.

Just returned to this thread as I was hoping to get a bit of narrowing down to a smart system which initially is only required to operate remotely from iphone.

My lifestyle doesn't warrant smart thermostats everywhere- just the ability to set a timer for HW and CH which can be modified via the phone and remote-switch on/off when I am an hour away from home.


** The reason why traditional systems had thermostat in hall - was that is what was deemed to be the coolest space in the house, so once it was up to temp - it shut the boiler down. It was crude, but worked after a fashion.

[wileeeeeey]

Just returned to this thread as I was hoping to get a bit of narrowing down to a smart system which initially is only required to operate remotely from iphone.

My lifestyle doesn't warrant smart thermostats everywhere- just the ability to set a timer for HW and CH which can be modified via the phone and remote-switch on/off when I am an hour away from home.


** The reason why traditional systems had thermostat in hall - was that is what was deemed to be the coolest space in the house, so once it was up to temp - it shut the boiler down. It was crude, but worked after a fashion.

Makes sense back then but bringing in the shopping and then wondering why the house is boiling used to always annoy me. Few gusts of wind and the heating system would go into full swing.

I think the thermostat should really be in the room you're in the most.

[learningtofly]

Just returned to this thread as I was hoping to get a bit of narrowing down to a smart system which initially is only required to operate remotely from iphone.

My lifestyle doesn't warrant smart thermostats everywhere- just the ability to set a timer for HW and CH which can be modified via the phone and remote-switch on/off when I am an hour away from home.


** The reason why traditional systems had thermostat in hall - was that is what was deemed to be the coolest space in the house, so once it was up to temp - it shut the boiler down. It was crude, but worked after a fashion.

Seems to be that Hive would be spot on for you. The Thermostat can go anywhere you like, and it's not a bad-looking thing anyway.

[blackal]

Seems to be that Hive would be spot on for you. The Thermostat can go anywhere you like, and it's not a bad-looking thing anyway.

Thanks! Looks like what was in the AirBnB I was in last week.

I'll investigate more

[Craizeehair]

We generally fit Hive, we’ve had no issues or faults and must have installed over 100 units, everything you might want to add, such as lightbulbs, sensors or cameras are plug and play, easy peasy.

[eletos]

Got 5 nest stats in the house. I installed the first one with a standard boiler and thermal store to replace the rigid box on the wall. Best thing I ever did.

Since having water underfloor heating installed all the zones are nest controlled.

They look smart and just work.


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[J3w3ll3r]

I have hive but if i was staring from scratch would look at Tado


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[Jack83]

Just had an email that Hive have started their Black Friday sale. Might be worth a look.

[blackal]

Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

Hive or Nest, and why?

Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?

I thought your boiler was firing okay?

[Wolfie]

Installation costs look pretty reasonable

Go for a TRV controlled system, it makes a lot more sense and will save you in the long term…. A lot more control and your installer can put the hub in as easily as a Nest/ Hive…. Adding the TRVs are a 2 minute doddle for each one

I have Wiser - excellent
Honeywell and Tado also supposed to be good

[MrSmith]

but its a bit like smart bulbs and the like imho. Get off the sofa, walk 5 feet and press a button. No need to have everything app controlled from your phone, put the damned thing in a cupboard every now and again and press a switch here and there, turn a dial - it’s not all that much of a trial is it??!!

I’ll be fitting tado TRV’s in new flat soon, will mean the main warm room will flip from bathroom to 2nd bedroom/office to lounge to main bedroom throughout the day when we are working from home and do so before we are in the room, it’s pointless to heat the whole flat when we are not in all the rooms and while you could possibly go round and turn up/down a dumb TRV the reality is that will soon end up a chore, forgetting and just leaving them on.

i’m happy to switch a light on and off though as that’s less labour intensive.

[Middo]

OP - have you chooses the boiler yet? If not do that first then pick the smart system that can operate it correctly with the appropriate eBus.

Tado sent a firmware change to give me full control over my valiant boiler via eBus.

Also this may explain why that’s important.

https://youtu.be/IRybadWKsYk

[lenlec]

Well, it looks like I need a new boiler, unfortunately, so...

Hive or Nest, and why?

Also, the company that have quoted want £1300 + VAT to install the boiler and set up the nest system (the boiler, Nest hub and any other materials are excluded from that). I was keen to get the work done this week but that just seems very expensive to go with on the basis that I don't have alternative quotes. Any thoughts, or does it sound about right (if it does I may just get it done in view of the other work lined up)?

Hi mate. I’m getting 20% off offers via email on hive stuff if ya need any help.
Cheers Andy

[MB2]

Do get something that supports valves - I had Netatmo system in my old house and miss it although probably wouldn't choose Netatmo now.

If you are having water flow issues and have the space have a look at an accumulator - Trentclyde Water Solutions Mainsboost transformed our water supply.

[robcuk]

Winter’s coming, how do I know? Because the Nest thermostat is suddenly losing it’s wireless connection to it’s boiler controller!

Nest’s support team simply say ‘oh it’s your WiFi network that’s at fault’ even though Nest uses it’s own network that’s separate from the WiFI

Annoying as it doesn’t turn on the heating when it faults, even though it reconnects when you press the ‘retry connection’ option on the thermostat.

I know it’s not just me as I’m aware of many colleagues that also have the issue.

[learningtofly]

Well, a quick update. Had the new boiler installed on Thursday (with the Vaillant Protector Kit fitted on the return pipe in the under stairs cupboard). I went with the Hive system in the end, primarily because I didn’t want to be constrained by having to plug in the thermostat. Everything was set up perfectly and I’m very happy with it, and with the extra control it gives me compared to the traditional panel and analogue thermostat I had before.

My plumber then came round on Friday to do the residual work, and we’ve decided that we may as well give the system a Powerflush too as the water was looking dirtier than we were happy with. He’s going to pop some cleaner in tomorrow, and then do the Powerflush with the remaining plumbing works on Thursday. (The company that installed the boiler supposedly flushed everything but whatever they did was of limited value.)

All in all its cost me the IWC I was planning on buying this month, but needs must.

[Wolfie]

Well, a quick update. Had the new boiler installed on Thursday (with the Vaillant Protector Kit fitted on the return pipe in the under stairs cupboard). I went with the Hive system in the end, primarily because I didn’t want to be constrained by having to plug in the thermostat. Everything was set up perfectly and I’m very happy with it, and with the extra control it gives me compared to the traditional panel and analogue thermostat I had before.

My plumber then came round on Friday to do the residual work, and we’ve decided that we may as well give the system a Powerflush too as the water was looking dirtier than we were happy with. He’s going to pop some cleaner in tomorrow, and then do the Powerflush with the remaining plumbing works on Thursday. (The company that installed the boiler supposedly flushed everything but whatever they did was of limited value.)

All in all its cost me the IWC I was planning on buying this month, but needs must.

Just make sure you get a maganclean (or equivalent) fitted….

[learningtofly]

Just make sure you get a maganclean (or equivalent) fitted….

That’s what the protection kit is.

[Wolfie]

That’s what the protection kit is.

Cool!

[Maris]

Winter’s coming, how do I know? Because the Nest thermostat is suddenly losing it’s wireless connection to it’s boiler controller!

Nest’s support team simply say ‘oh it’s your WiFi network that’s at fault’ even though Nest uses it’s own network that’s separate from the WiFI

Annoying as it doesn’t turn on the heating when it faults, even though it reconnects when you press the ‘retry connection’ option on the thermostat.

I know it’s not just me as I’m aware of many colleagues that also have the issue.

That's one problem I haven't had with my Nest, why they are so popular is a mystery to me, the geolocation home/away thing doesn't work, the heating fires up when I'm in my shorts if left to it own devices, support is crap, they just advise you to reset it when you eventually get a response, I just set up a schedule as normal.

[wileeeeeey]

Was a power flush offered before but you refused? Wondering why a flush wasn't agreed on previously.

I always thought a power flush was the default for new rads or boiler?

[learningtofly]

Was a power flush offered before but you refused? Wondering why a flush wasn't agreed on previously.

I always thought a power flush was the default for new rads or boiler?

No, it wasn’t refused. I think it was an error on my part in not pinning them down on it.

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing, and in this case an additional cost.

[wileeeeeey]

No, it wasn’t refused. I think it was an error on my part in not pinning them down on it.

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing, and in this case an additional cost.

You're doing the right thing power flushing. You won't see any benefits directly but it's 100% the right thing to do.