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  1. #51
    Bit dramatic and probably mostly made up by the Mail anyway

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    Last edited by xxnick1975; 29th October 2022 at 15:48.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    If I’m rushing to hospital with an ill child or a pregnant wife and some unwashed cretin is sat in the middle of the road and refusing to move when told of this, then they would be physically removed instantly. Zero hesitation and zero limit on amount of force used. Their agenda and desire for publicity has nothing to do with deliberately stopping people getting to hospitals - and there have been evidenced occasions when they have done just that despite being told the situation. At that point they lost any shred of credibility they might have had.

    Democracy encourages and permits the right to protest - it does not permit the right to flagrantly break the laws of the land while doing so. Any violence meted out to these deviants is a separate issue and both parties should be dealt with separately by the police.
    Happened on the M25, elderly woman was in the early stages of a stroke and was being taken to hospital by her son, 6 hours later left paralysed.

    https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...hospital-trip/
    F**k democracy, in this instance someone would have been missing teeth.

  3. #53
    Any more detail on that story?

    Unnamed woman, son only known as Chris and the story is essentially reporting what he said on a radio phone in?





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  4. #54
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxnick1975 View Post
    Any more detail on that story?

    Unnamed woman, son only known as Chris and the story is essentially reporting what he said on a radio phone in?





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    Are you suggesting that in all these traffic disruption stunts there are no ambulances with ill people being held up from urgent medical treatment? Is so you are delusional

  5. #55
    No not really, I just think that story seems a bit weird, phoning into the radio about something like that.

    Also Ive seen news that some ambulance services have been confirming that the Mail and their like have been making stuff up about this.

    All this knocking peoples teeth out and whatever the consequence chat is a bit macho man

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    Last edited by xxnick1975; 29th October 2022 at 17:25.

  6. #56
    Don't really know if this is trustworthy or not but as an example

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/jus...-m20-accident/

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  7. #57
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxnick1975 View Post
    No not really, I just think that story seems a bit weird, phoning into the radio about something like that.

    Also Ive seen news that some ambulance services have been confirming that the Mail and their like have been making stuff up about this.

    All this knocking peoples teeth out and whatever the consequence chat is a bit macho man

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    Think what you will - would love to see your pragmatic approach if it was yourself that was on an emergency and couldn’t get through. I doubt you would be quite so understanding. When they block the road the traffic tails back and causes a gridlock. An emergency vehicle stuck further back in the jam will be delayed - imho that’s indisputable.

    As for macho well whatever. I doubt I’d have to resort to smashing their faces but I would not hesitate to drag them off the road. If they resist physically they would be met with escalation. Both would suffer consequences and that’s all fine.

  8. #58
    Fair enough, I'm going to the pub now!

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  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by xxnick1975 View Post
    Any more detail on that story?

    Unnamed woman, son only known as Chris and the story is essentially reporting what he said on a radio phone in?
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    No other than on every media outlet known to man.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Think what you will - would love to see your pragmatic approach if it was yourself that was on an emergency and couldn’t get through. I doubt you would be quite so understanding. When they block the road the traffic tails back and causes a gridlock. An emergency vehicle stuck further back in the jam will be delayed - imho that’s indisputable.

    As for macho well whatever. I doubt I’d have to resort to smashing their faces but I would not hesitate to drag them off the road. If they resist physically they would be met with escalation. Both would suffer consequences and that’s all fine.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/new...-b2200256.html
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...e-nearly-hour/
    https://www.enfieldindependent.co.uk...espite-fining/

    Obvioulsy this also never happened

  11. #61
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxnick1975 View Post
    Fair enough, I'm going to the pub now!

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    Hope your taxi isn’t delayed

  12. #62
    All good!

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    Attachment 19834

  13. #63
    Grand Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxnick1975 View Post
    All good!

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    Attachment 19834

  14. #64
    delayed slightly by a protester = bad
    sat in traffic as smoke from wildfire and burning homes billows across the motorway = tolerable as it’s not my home on fire.
    road flooded and traffic backed up = not too bad as i’m not getting rained on.
    sat in traffic heading to the coast on a sweltering 40° day as people try to escape their poorly insulated homes for a bit of respite from the heat = at least i have aircon in my car.

  15. #65
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    I believe it’s the lack of police action that truly infuriates the general public, and their double standards compared to other less “popular” protests.

    As for the protesters themselves, they are just idiots and hypocrites.
    Last edited by Chinnock; 30th October 2022 at 14:46.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
    Ah, trickle-down-economics, I see your thinking. Bound to work.
    Not trickle down. I'm keeping all of it. lol lol Obviously I would have expenses. It costs money to run an environmental movement lol.
    Last edited by johny; 30th October 2022 at 16:18.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinnock View Post
    I believe it’s the lack of police action that truly infuriates the general public, and their double standards compared to other less “popular” protests.

    As for the protesters themselves, they are just idiots and hypocrites.
    Yes I agree with you, they are hypocritical idiots. However we live in a democracy and everyone, no matter how looney has a right to have their views heard. If you try to quell them, they will almost certainly try to quell you and that suits no one.

    We just have to tolerate them as a dictatorship is much much worse.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Yes I agree with you, they are hypocritical idiots. However we live in a democracy and everyone, no matter how looney has a right to have their views heard. If you try to quell them, they will almost certainly try to quell you and that suits no one.

    We just have to tolerate them as a dictatorship is much much worse.
    Yes we do but they are breaking the law and cost the tax payer money, keep the police away from other perhaps more pressing duties, they should be imprisoned and they should have to pay the full cost of keeping them in prison IMO from there savings, sale of there property or from any payments they get from the goverment.

    ps: and when they glue themselves to a wall or someplace if not inconveniencing anyone they should be left there for a couple of days as it was there choice to glue themselves.

    Yes these people really p**** me off.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63454974

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Yes we do but they are breaking the law and cost the tax payer money, keep the police away from other perhaps more pressing duties, they should be imprisoned and they should have to pay the full cost of keeping them in prison IMO from there savings, sale of there property or from any payments they get from the goverment.

    ps: and when they glue themselves to a wall or someplace if not inconveniencing anyone they should be left there for a couple of days as it was there choice to glue themselves.

    Yes these people really p**** me off.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63454974
    I fully sympathise with your views but we must allow the police to disperse them and not do it ourselves. The moment we start taking the law into our own hands is the day things will escalate.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Yes I agree with you, they are hypocritical idiots. However we live in a democracy and everyone, no matter how looney has a right to have their views heard. If you try to quell them, they will almost certainly try to quell you and that suits no one.

    We just have to tolerate them as a dictatorship is much much worse.
    They can have their views heard, without question, but when they start doing stupid things, stopping people form going about their daily business, putting peoples lives at risk and destroying property that falls in to a different ball game.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    They can have their views heard, without question, but when they start doing stupid things, stopping people form going about their daily business, putting peoples lives at risk and destroying property that falls in to a different ball game.
    agreed and nobody is saying they have no right to be heard and air their views. Endangering people and breaking the law means the police deal with it. When the police do nothing or take forever to do anything is when the people start to think feck this I will do it myself. Wrong it may be but its where we are heading - only today I read this

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/...4809fd90ffdc06

    police made arrests - but again this time Harrods got gallons of orange paint put on it. If you or I did that as random vandalism and graffiti we would have to do community service and pay to have it cleaned or we would be fined. In that article at least the numbers of arrests seems to be rising.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    agreed and nobody is saying they have no right to be heard and air their views. Endangering people and breaking the law means the police deal with it. When the police do nothing or take forever to do anything is when the people start to think feck this I will do it myself. Wrong it may be but its where we are heading - only today I read this

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/...4809fd90ffdc06

    police made arrests - but again this time Harrods got gallons of orange paint put on it. If you or I did that as random vandalism and graffiti we would have to do community service and pay to have it cleaned or we would be fined. In that article at least the numbers of arrests seems to be rising.
    Reading that link, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves (the activists)…since October 1st its taken almost 8000 officer shifts to police this nonsense!!

  23. #73
    Yes we do but they are breaking the law and cost the tax payer money, keep the police away from other perhaps more pressing duties, they should be imprisoned and they should have to pay the full cost of keeping them in prison IMO from there savings, sale of there property or from any payments they get from the goverment
    Why stop at climate protesters? They are small fry compared to the lawbreaking on a massive scale that goes on daily at far greater cost to society and without the police lifting a finger.
    Why can’t those crimes be punished in the same way?

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    If you or I did that as random vandalism and graffiti we would have to do community service and pay to have it cleaned or we would be fined.
    Are you suggesting they will be treated differently in the courts than you or I would be?

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  25. #75
    Master OldHooky's Avatar
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    Will be a bugger to clean off if it’s oil-based paint.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Why stop at climate protesters? They are small fry compared to the lawbreaking on a massive scale that goes on daily at far greater cost to society and without the police lifting a finger.
    Why can’t those crimes be punished in the same way?
    Why can't they ? I agree.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Are you suggesting they will be treated differently in the courts than you or I would be?

    R
    Time will tell but I’m sure some legal advisers will be claiming diminished responsibility on the grounds of being on a crusade to save the world or some bollocks.

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTigerUK View Post
    Why can't they ? I agree.
    Probably because there would have to be a massive prison building programme and a huge recruitment drive in both the police, judiciary and prison service.
    Maybe that could be funded by taxing the energy companies making huge profits, though i think that would be better spent elsewhere on things like reinvestment in renewables and insulating the poor UK housing stock.

  29. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Are you suggesting they will be treated differently in the courts than you or I would be?
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Time will tell but I’m sure some legal advisers will be claiming diminished responsibility on the grounds of being on a crusade to save the world or some bollocks.
    Maybe 'some legal advisers' will claim such a thing but it doesn't necessarily follow that the that the defendents will be punished in any way differently than others wopuld prosecuted.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Maybe 'some legal advisers' will claim such a thing but it doesn't necessarily follow that the that the defendents will be punished in any way differently than others wopuld prosecuted.

    R
    I was watching some early morning TV programme this morning and ED Balls was interviewing some retired ex policeman. He said that blocking the road was illegal and any policeman will normally arrest anyone who does not leave when asked to do so.

    He also said that the EU passed a law pre Brexit that we are signed into whereby political protestors have more protection than yobs and will also be treated differently in court.

    So it's a grey area by the look of it.

  31. #81
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    4. Obstruction of the Highway
    This power is often used to remove demonstrators who are standing outside buildings, sitting down blockading entrances or roads and in many public order situations.
    You could be committing this offence if, without lawful authority or excuse, you willfully obstruct the free passage of the highway. The ‘highway’ includes the road, the pavement, grass verges and private property used as a public thoroughfare.
    ‘Obstruction’ includes anything that prevents passing and re-passing along the highway. You do not have to be blocking the whole width of the highway. It does not matter whether free passage along the highway has already been temporarily restricted or prohibited
    The obstruction has to be ‘wilful’ (meaning intentional or deliberate), so you will often be asked to move by the police, sometimes they will do this five times, and if you do not then this could be used as evidence that the obstruction was wilful in court.
    The offence is recordable, which means you must give your fingerprints and DNA at the police station if you’re arrested for the offence. If you refuse, the police can use reasonable force to make you comply. A record of the arrest will also go on the Police National Computer.
    If convicted, the maximum penalty is six months in prison and a fine. First time offenders would be likely to receive about £200, depending on the type of road obstructed and the length of disruption. The increased maximum sentence that includes a custodial sentence was introducted by the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022. The offence is only triable before a magistrate’s court.
    Upon conviction, the CPS who prosecute most offences will likely apply for court costs. This is where you have to pay some money to cover the costs they’ve incurred preparing the case and conducting any hearings. The full schedule of costs that the CPS will try to get is publicly available. In practice, the court doesn’t often award the full amount. To see reports of how court costs are used in practice, see a series of recent court reports here.


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  32. #82
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    What is the punishment for deliberately, systematically undermining the increasingly clear consensus on climate change? When it was done for lead in petrol, smoking, pesticides, food additives and so on the consequences were serious but not world changing.

    Because, frankly, time isn't running out any more. It's run out. The effects are everywhere, with 'hundred year' events occurring slightly more often than once a century, desertification and drought all over, ice sheets melting and scientists desperately pointing out tipping points that are in the process of tipping..

    Because in a handful of decades, as sea levels rise and the world stops being able to support the current population, one of two things will happen - a unified world will act with consensus to try to pull back from the brink or a fragmented world will fight for whatever matters to them while the planet burns.

    Paint on a window? Inconvenience to commuters? Gosh, a squirrel? Don't worry about the environment, just keep consuming and being monetised. These folks are not your enemy they are the ones pointing out the house is on fire.

    Mind you, gluing yourself to shit is stupid and damaging stuff is daft except in extreme circumstances. Get a large enough mass of non violent protesters politely refusing to cooperate in the big picture while cooperating in the small one and that's enough.
    Last edited by M4tt; 2nd November 2022 at 00:16.

  33. #83
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    What is the punishment for deliberately, systematically undermining the increasingly clear consensus on climate change? When it was done for lead in petrol, smoking, pesticides, food additives and so on the consequences were serious but not world changing.

    Because, frankly, time isn't running out any more. It's run out. The effects are everywhere, with 'hundred year' events occurring slightly more often than once a century, desertification and drought all over, ice sheets melting and scientists desperately pointing out tipping points that are in the process of tipping..

    Because in a handful of decades, as sea levels rise and the world stops being able to support the current population, one of two things will happen - a unified world will act with consensus to try to pull back from the brink or a fragmented world will fight for whatever matters in a fucked planet.

    Paint on a window? Inconvenience to commuters? Fuck me, a squirrel? Don't worry about the environment, just keep consuming and being monetised. These folks are not your enemy they are the ones pointing out the house is on fire.

    Mind you, gluing yourself to shit is stupid and damaging stuff is daft except in extreme circumstances. Get a large enough mass of non violent protesters politely refusing to cooperate in the big picture while cooperating in the small one and that's enough.
    This is not the Bear Pit. Get a grip.


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  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    What is the punishment for deliberately, systematically undermining the increasingly clear consensus on climate change? When it was done for lead in petrol, smoking, pesticides, food additives and so on the consequences were serious but not world changing.

    Because, frankly, time isn't running out any more. It's run out. The effects are everywhere, with 'hundred year' events occurring slightly more often than once a century, desertification and drought all over, ice sheets melting and scientists desperately pointing out tipping points that are in the process of tipping..

    Because in a handful of decades, as sea levels rise and the world stops being able to support the current population, one of two things will happen - a unified world will act with consensus to try to pull back from the brink or a fragmented world will fight for whatever matters in a XXXXX planet.

    Paint on a window? Inconvenience to commuters? XXXX me, a squirrel? Don't worry about the environment, just keep consuming and being monetised. These folks are not your enemy they are the ones pointing out the house is on fire.

    Mind you, gluing yourself to shit is stupid and damaging stuff is daft except in extreme circumstances. Get a large enough mass of non violent protesters politely refusing to cooperate in the big picture while cooperating in the small one and that's enough.
    Might want to edit that Matt?….G&D!!

  35. #85
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Might want to edit that Matt?….G&D!!
    Have already PM'd.
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  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Are you suggesting they will be treated differently in the courts than you or I would be?

    R
    Just getting to court would be something, I thought the police normally made them a cup of tea

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Have already PM'd.
    Thanks, edited. My apologies, I didn’t register that it wasn’t the bear pit.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    This is not the Bear Pit. Get a grip.


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    My apologies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Might want to edit that Matt?….G&D!!
    Cheers, my mistake.

  39. #89
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  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4tt View Post
    Thanks, edited. My apologies, I didn’t register that it wasn’t the bear pit.
    But it should be BP as it’s escalated politically and has a tone of anger and violence so not really in keeping with the G&D..

  41. #91
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Time will tell but I’m sure some legal advisers will be claiming diminished responsibility on the grounds of being on a crusade to save the world or some bollocks.
    It would be interesting to see what the reactions would be, if another pressure group with less acceptable aims decides to use the same tactics.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

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