My perception is that blacked out watches, pvd or DLCs, is a more common fashion currently. Seiko seem to have a number but they aren't the only brand. I've stayed away as I've not found them asthetically superior to a polished or brushed metallic finish and a tiny bit of me finds the'stealth' descriptions that are often used a bit childish. A large part of my staying away is also the concern of long term appearance. No matter how durable they are, and I read that DLCs in particular are quite durable, they will pick up damage over time I'm sure, particularly as it's sports watches that are on trend for a stealth finish. They will get some scratches if the watches are worn enough. I'm not against this and actually think 30 or 40 years down the line, a scratched and worn through coating will have a patina that could be quite attractive. I'm confused though when the finish is used on some pretty high end watches. The particular watch that set me thinking is the Seiko LX currently in sales corner. For the first time I saw a watch where I did quite like the asthetic and I even made an offer to the seller. My partial trade didn't float his boat and a day later I found myself quite glad as the watch hadn't been thought through by me and I'm glad I'm now doing that thinking. There are a few brands with pvd or dlc finishes on watches costing several thousand but let's use the seiko lx watches as an example. These are about £5k new and positioned at the top of seiko's offerings, on a par with similar sports watches from grand seiko. They have spring drive movements but more relevant to my thinking is the high quality case finish they have, including zaratsu polishing. This is where I'm confused. These watches are sold as a high quality finished item but with a coating that means refinishing is very difficult indeed. A bare metal polished surface can be repolished at a service, a brushed surface can be rebrushed, but a blacked surface would need that pvd or dlc removed and then redone as well as the polish or rebrush. Do Seiko offer that at a service? I'm guessing but guess not. In which case, do they expect owners to opt for recasing at a service? Or are they saying, ' here's our zaratsu polished master piece sports watch, it looks incredible, enjoy it's exquisite hand finished details... While you can.' I'm confused that brands are producing watches that have exquisite finishes as a real selling point, but to me that finish is a one time only effort. Were the watch a lower end prospex costing a fifth or less the cost of the LX, or a steinhart or such like, I could probably accept buying something that must patina as part of the character of the watch, but but.. is it just me that has this confusion or are others in mental turmoil too? 😉
DLC yes. PVD no.
Correctly applied DLC coating is extremely hard wearing and will last many years. It should also be impervious to hairline scratches/swirlies so on highly polished surfaces it offers good protection, but in the case you mentioned, it's an arduous and costly process of removing the coating, re-polishing and reapplying.
I don’t like any coating on a watch. Regardless of process. I can deal with scratches but a gleaming bit of silver on an otherwise matte black surface irks me.
I’ll concede that something like Karl Lagerfeld’s RO looks cool but i’m sure it went through 5-10 years of looking a bit knackered in a bad way before it began to look good again and I couldn’t deal with that personally.
Yes I've read DLCs are pretty hard. They do scratch though. When I saw the LX on sales corner I had a look elsewhere and there's one on eBay that has several scratches.
I agree about the final patina may look good but a generally pristine watch with a few scratches is an odd look!
My Sinn EZM7S has a PVD with tegimented finish and still looks like new and it looks like it will stay that way for years.
That said, I actually like the slightly worn look of my 80s Breil Manta better.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Not keen on watch coating whatever they call it.
I like it yes, DLC though not pvd.
I like it and think even PVD can be extremely durable. I had a PVD CWC GS Sapphire and knocked it about alot and it didn't have a mark on it a couple years down the line. I think the PVD coating CWC use is far more durable than what they used to be.
Having said that, certain watches such as the older SBS Diver take on a wonderful look as the plating starts to wear imo, really suits the watch.
If I wanted black, it would have to be ceramic, but then I need not to drop it!
D
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As mentioned above, it depends on the coating for me.
Some of the old Tag Heuers (like the black Super Pro) or Orfinas look superb as they age, but the cheaper models suffered badly from flaking and looked terrible. Consequently I had always shyed away from anything coated but recently acquired a DLC Synchron Military, and the quality surprised me. Didn’t keep it long enough to gauge long term resistance to marks and scratches but I did get the impression it would have been up to the task.
I’d add carbon(also brittle) and resin to the list!Originally Posted by helidoc
I’d like to try the formex essence leggera some day
I’ve owned several, CWC, Steinhart, G-Shock etc.
They look great in pictures and bloody awful on my wrist, so they all have been moved on.
Promised never to buy another…
Never owned one and never will.
It's just the thought of any mark's standing out like a sore thumb :-(
Sent from a technical device.
I'm the same with the exception of a G-Shock which has stuck. I love the look of DLC (or other black watches), buy them, don't wear them so end up selling them on.
I think for me 'traditional' watches (the ones with hands) should be plain metal but a digital G-shock is traditionally black so I reckon it looks right.
I’ve had a PVD watch. I bought it used, so it already had a few minor scratches and wear marks. I really enjoyed owning it and I do like a black watch.
I always thought that DLC was the material, whereas PVD was the process of coating one material with another. So you could have DLC coated steel case, where the DLC was applied by PVD. Am I was wrong?
No complaints here.
Good. I can see it suiting a a Sinn, bead blasted finish, ultimate tool watch, it suits, although I like the grey bead blasted finish.
Yes again, straight tool watch, no frills, no polished surfaces, it can suit
That looks right too. I don't expect a digital to be smart so don't care about a few marks. (Waves at another stw forumite)I'm the same with the exception of a G-Shock which has stuck. I love the look of DLC (or other black watches), buy them, don't wear them so end up selling them on.
I think for me 'traditional' watches (the ones with hands) should be plain metal but a digital G-shock is traditionally black so I reckon it looks right.
PVD and DLC are 2 different types of coating process.I always thought that DLC was the material, whereas PVD was the process of coating one material with another. So you could have DLC coated steel case, where the DLC was applied by PVD. Am I was wrong?
https://www.johndesmond.com/blog/coa...s-pvd-coating/
https://www.semicore.com/news/119-wh...bology-coating
No, they are not!!!
The post you quoted was correct as your links clearly show; PVD or Physical Vapour Deposition is a process whereby material is applied to a surface. DLC or Diamond Like Carbon is a material which may (or may not) be applied by the process of PVD.
A analogy would be to think of the DLC as the paint, whilst PVD is the act of painting.
I’m a fan,
Had quite a few, I don’t find they scratch that easy and the ones I’ve had that had a couple on you can’t notice them at a glance.
I will always have a dlc of some sort in my collection as I think they just go
OK you're correct, calm down.
I'm not that well versed in PVD coatings, but where I used to work, the DLC was applied via PACVD.
Well it seems I'm going to have to get to grips with my confusion.... Or flip it on again.... As I've gone and bought it! When strell dropped the asking price I couldn't resist.
9 years old and still looking in damn fine condition
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On the right watch I’m a fan. Have a black Sinn and had an skx007 coated. But I think it has to be a pretty unfussy tool watch for it to work.
Like that Bremont. Keep wanting them to do a retail pvd MB3
I am a fan of black watches. DLC does wear - this is the state of my Ocean Black DLC after my dad owned it for some years. He wore it on a nato hence no wear on the bracelet.
I like the idea of the Zenith Shadow Revival which achieves it's dark colour without coating.
I detest black watches, really don’t like them. Cheap black plastic are OK but that’s as far as it goes for me. Same applies to black alloy wheels on cars, they look shite IMO.
In principle I am not a fan of DLC. I do however like exotic materials and have one Carbotech Parneria in my collection at the moment.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 27th October 2022 at 07:29.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Yes I had a Sinn like that a while back, and it didn’t mark at all. Totally different to a PVD topcoat.
I used to think similar to the OP
A black coating would look terrible when marked and I believed they marked just by looking at them after reading the usual guff on forums. But I have to say modern coatings are more than up to the task of sustained rough use in my experience.
The SBS being the oldest black watch I own, is taking on a nice dark grey colour. With some burnishing on the edges it’s a nice look.
My tuna only has one minor scuff on the shroud, this was caused by me catching it on a wall. Even the aftermarket strapcode is unmarked bar the wear points on the clasp moving parts
The GMT is my holiday watch and gets beat to hell, it has a few pin pricks on the shroud but compared to the bezel insert, the shroud and case look almost new - this watch has been inside animals (it truly has), been in croc infested water, dug 4x4s out of rivers, all sorts (I am Bear Grills and I claim the £5) and there is no chipping, flaking etc just 1 or 2 pin prick marks. A new insert and it would look almost perfect.
The Synchron is totally un marked but it is only 18 months old.
That said paying a larger sum for a black watch and then marking it would drive me batty! That Seiko is lovely though, I was tempted.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th October 2022 at 09:30.
I like them but then I try and avoid polished surfaces wherever possible. Matt finish and stark are my preferred look
The Aevig is DLC and looks like new. Not sure of the others but they're hard to mark in my experience.
The Sinn 656 that sold a few days ago looked awesome with it's worn edges (imho)
Hoping the CWC SBS i have recently bought ages nicely
Last edited by acg; 27th October 2022 at 13:07.
I wear this most days. I was also sceptical after reading too many forum complaints, but the DLC on this is fantastic, I use it when exercising, rough housing with the dog etc, and it's held up fine.
Now and then we're in total agreement, this is one of those times.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Inside animals! Not a croc I hope!
I used to think similar to the OP
A black coating would look terrible when marked and I believed they marked just by looking at them after reading the usual guff on forums. But I have to say modern coatings are more than up to the task of sustained rough use in my experience.
The SBS being the oldest black watch I own, is taking on a nice dark grey colour. With some burnishing on the edges it’s a nice look.
My tuna only has one minor scuff on the shroud, this was caused by me catching it on a wall. Even the aftermarket strapcode is unmarked bar the wear points on the clasp moving parts
The GMT is my holiday watch and gets beat to hell, it has a few pin pricks on the shroud but compared to the bezel insert, the shroud and case look almost new - this watch has been inside animals (it truly has), been in croc infested water, dug 4x4s out of rivers, all sorts (I am Bear Grills and I claim the £5) and there is no chipping, flaking etc just 1 or 2 pin prick marks. A new insert and it would look almost perfect.
The Synchron is totally un marked but it is only 18 months old.
That said paying a larger sum for a black watch and then marking it would drive me batty! That Seiko is lovely though, I was tempted.
Good to know the strap code oyster is doing well, I might swap the croc skin strap for an oyster bracelet like that .... Will give a black sail cloth a go first.
Yes, cheaper full on tool watches, beaters and those like Sinn with no polished surfaces.. ie plain and simple honest watches not pimped up luxury jewellery, dlc can work. I'm still dubious for a £5k zaratsu polished grand Seiko without the grand. Still at the price paid I can convince my brain it's 'just a plain old prospex'.. maybe?!I like them but then I try and avoid polished surfaces wherever possible. Matt finish and stark are my preferred look
The Aevig is DLC and looks like new. Not sure of the others but they're hard to mark in my experience.
The Sinn 656 that sold a few days ago looked awesome with it's worn edges (imho)
Hoping the CWC SBS i have recently bought ages nicely
Whilst I much prefer steel or titanium (uncovered), I am not adverse to black coated watches & have owned a few. However, I seem to go off them way too quickly, so they never last long in the stable ..
/vince ..
I don't mind them - especially when done by someone like Citizen who know what they are doing.
I don’t have an issue with them having had a few but not managed to stick with them for more than a short period as still prefer SS and Titanium.
Not DLC, but I've had no trouble with either of my PVD watches.
To be fair, the CWC is only about one year old. The Rotary is maybe 6-7 years. It's been back for a new crystal as the original one got scratched. No marks on the case though.
Sorry about naff phone snap.
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I'm a fan and I've tried a few over the years. Currently this is the only one I have:
Yes this is my understanding of PVD and DLC too. I don't mind black/anthracite watches, I've had a few - currently thinking of selling one black cased watch to replace with another black cased watch.
Not for me at all. Don't know what it is but I just seem to scroll right past them.
Be wary case hardened watches the pvd/dlc coating will be hard but will also chip if hit hard.
Rolex snippet from pvd coating expert>>
not yet coated any Rolex, but Rolex is using the same CrC coating. CrC with magnetic sputtering, the pin hole will reduce. But overall it depend on your part, if your part come with pinhole, CrC will not help you to refill the pin hole.
Last edited by Bry1975; 29th October 2022 at 22:21.
Just read that 3 times and I have to confess, I can make no sense of that lot what so ever
CrC = Chrome Carbide pvd coating.
Pin holes are a pvd coating surface flaw, most likely a flaw in the base metal's surface.
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